If you aren't going forward, you are giong backwards

ThunderMaverick

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Backbreaker was exposed as a fraud and that's why he's not stepping up to defend himself.

http://www.bbb.org/arkansas/business-reviews/web-design/black-17-media-in-little-rock-ar-90209549 The BBB review for his work shows that people aren't happy with doing business with him.

Also allegedly posted on this board here where again he didn't come in to defend himself: http://www.the-mainboard.com/index....ssaud-is-a-con-artist-thread-yet.93745/page-3

To be perfectly honest, I've never seen a more insecure person on this board, (aside from STR8UP) when it came to challenging a belief. There's always going to be exeptions to rules that many of us have experienced, and there are "words of wisdom" that aren't going to be right 100% of the time.

BB came here claiming to help the little people of this forum but became such a little man when not everyone agreed with him. His emotional instability made me question his legitimacy. I mean a lot of what he said made sense and hold true, but then again anyone could have said it without truly living by example. Backbreaker used an example of this BF being stagnant to claim being on a much higher level than him. People were also pointing out that money doesn't exactly equal true success. I have to agree. What is true success? Let's compare:


BF who got cheated on:
Has a steady job in an econimic depression.
Makes 30,000 a year.
Enjoys his job.

Backbreaker:
Has his own business that's been given an F by the BBB.
Is a former drug addict who has self image issues.
Can be vindictive and abnormally frustrated when challenged
on his personal views.
Has a hot wife.

I have no problem being the guy with the steady job.

Are we measuring success on how hard you work? Or what's reaped only AFTER working hard? I've worked very hard doing voice over
work, demos, short films, etc. If we're measuring success by the latter I should be a ****ing millionaire. People can spend most of their life trying to achieve "success" in the eyes of anther who can apparently "do better" than you. F*ck that. Some people just don't gain "success" as fast as others.

I think the guy working for 30k is pretty successful, considering the circumstances. How do we know what his desires are? Why is he "below" you just because he doesn't have the same drive as you do? Does he need to? If he figures out that the reason he got cheated on was because he
wasn't good enough that might lead him here, to figure out why women are low down no good conniving c*nts. He'll learn how to be "successful" in
order to avoid hypergamy, leading him to live a life always wondering if he's good enough. He'll be working hard to make someone else happy.

F*ck that.

The point of this place isn't to measure success by someone else's standards. It's to be the best you can be, for yourself. In this ass backward thread we're learning that to keep someone from cheating on you we have to "pick up and go whenever we want". That we can at least pay 100 dollars to go see a play once a week. It doesn't happen like that for most of us, as much as we want it to. It will take time. It will take a lot of soul searching and planning and work. There are some women who will actually stick around while "the bread is being made" because they believe in your potential. Not all women will abandon you because you can sometimes get stuck in a rut. A level headed woman knows life isn't a fairy tale where a rich white knight will swoop them up to take them to his personal kingdom. A real woman
will support you, given the right ingredients.

The BF seemed to be in a comfortable place, and I could understand if the ex felt he was being stagnant. The moral of the story in BB's eyes, however, is so backwards and wrong I could go on a 3 page rant. Saying that her cheating wasn't important is contrary to what this thread is about. The REASON she cheated is because the guy was supposedly "comfortable"with his life situation. SHE wasn't happy because of something she didn't like him doing. After all, if he was "moving up" she wouldn't have f*cked the guy at her RECEPTIONIST JOB. Right? What if he were trying? Would that make a difference? Would it have?

We blame HIM for HER behavior. Again, I understand why she was frustrated, as her standard of living became different than his. BUT the way she went about it, conveniently making her life situation easier by deceit is bullsh!t and probably shouldn't be passed on. Let's not separate what she did from what he did. It's all related. We can't say ALL WOMEN would do this, because I know one here who would have took a more reasonable route to dumping someone they weren't happy with.

Yes, Lexington. The woman was a branch swinger. Happens to the most "successful" of us. lol

Let's make people accountable for the sh!t they do, shall we?
 

cordoncordon

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ThunderMaverick said:
Backbreaker was exposed as a fraud and that's why he's not stepping up to defend himself.

http://www.bbb.org/arkansas/business-reviews/web-design/black-17-media-in-little-rock-ar-90209549 The BBB review for his work shows that people aren't happy with doing business with him.

Also allegedly posted on this board here where again he didn't come in to defend himself: http://www.the-mainboard.com/index....ssaud-is-a-con-artist-thread-yet.93745/page-3

To be perfectly honest, I've never seen a more insecure person on this board, (aside from STR8UP) when it came to challenging a belief. There's always going to be exeptions to rules that many of us have experienced, and there are "words of wisdom" that aren't going to be right 100% of the time.

BB came here claiming to help the little people of this forum but became such a little man when not everyone agreed with him. His emotional instability made me question his legitimacy. I mean a lot of what he said made sense and hold true, but then again anyone could have said it without truly living by example. Backbreaker used an example of this BF being stagnant to claim being on a much higher level than him. People were also pointing out that money doesn't exactly equal true success. I have to agree. What is true success? Let's compare:


BF who got cheated on:
Has a steady job in an econimic depression.
Makes 30,000 a year.
Enjoys his job.

Backbreaker:
Has his own business that's been given an F by the BBB.
Is a former drug addict who has self image issues.
Can be vindictive and abnormally frustrated when challenged
on his personal views.
Has a hot wife.

I have no problem being the guy with the steady job.

Are we measuring success on how hard you work? Or what's reaped only AFTER working hard? I've worked very hard doing voice over
work, demos, short films, etc. If we're measuring success by the latter I should be a ****ing millionaire. People can spend most of their life trying to achieve "success" in the eyes of anther who can apparently "do better" than you. F*ck that. Some people just don't gain "success" as fast as others.

I think the guy working for 30k is pretty successful, considering the circumstances. How do we know what his desires are? Why is he "below" you just because he doesn't have the same drive as you do? Does he need to? If he figures out that the reason he got cheated on was because he
wasn't good enough that might lead him here, to figure out why women are low down no good conniving c*nts. He'll learn how to be "successful" in
order to avoid hypergamy, leading him to live a life always wondering if he's good enough. He'll be working hard to make someone else happy.

F*ck that.

The point of this place isn't to measure success by someone else's standards. It's to be the best you can be, for yourself. In this ass backward thread we're learning that to keep someone from cheating on you we have to "pick up and go whenever we want". That we can at least pay 100 dollars to go see a play once a week. It doesn't happen like that for most of us, as much as we want it to. It will take time. It will take a lot of soul searching and planning and work. There are some women who will actually stick around while "the bread is being made" because they believe in your potential. Not all women will abandon you because you can sometimes get stuck in a rut. A level headed woman knows life isn't a fairy tale where a rich white knight will swoop them up to take them to his personal kingdom. A real woman
will support you, given the right ingredients.

The BF seemed to be in a comfortable place, and I could understand if the ex felt he was being stagnant. The moral of the story in BB's eyes, however, is so backwards and wrong I could go on a 3 page rant. Saying that her cheating wasn't important is contrary to what this thread is about. The REASON she cheated is because the guy was supposedly "comfortable"with his life situation. SHE wasn't happy because of something she didn't like him doing. After all, if he was "moving up" she wouldn't have f*cked the guy at her RECEPTIONIST JOB. Right? What if he were trying? Would that make a difference? Would it have?

We blame HIM for HER behavior. Again, I understand why she was frustrated, as her standard of living became different than his. BUT the way she went about it, conveniently making her life situation easier by deceit is bullsh!t and probably shouldn't be passed on. Let's not separate what she did from what he did. It's all related. We can't say ALL WOMEN would do this, because I know one here who would have took a more reasonable route to dumping someone they weren't happy with.

Yes, Lexington. The woman was a branch swinger. Happens to the most "successful" of us. lol

Let's make people accountable for the sh!t they do, shall we?
Glad to see you chime in TM and your words were rationale and well written as usual.

As for BB and those BBB reports and that other thread on him? Wow is all I can say. IF he ever shows up here again, I hope he never puts down another fellow member with that kind of stuff on his resume.

An F? A freaking F.

Makes me wonder if all his braggings about his gambling winnings were true. I know he got very upset with me on one thread years ago because I, being a fellow gambler and horse trainer, caught him fudging the numbers on some bets he claimed to have made. All makes sense now.
 

ThunderMaverick

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cordoncordon said:
Glad to see you chime in TM and your words were rationale and well written as usual.

As for BB and those BBB reports and that other thread on him? Wow is all I can say. IF he ever shows up here again, I hope he never puts down another fellow member with that kind of stuff on his resume.

An F? A freaking F.

Makes me wonder if all his braggings about his gambling winnings were true. I know he got very upset with me on one thread years ago because I, being a fellow gambler and horse trainer, caught him fudging the numbers on some bets he claimed to have made. All makes sense now.

Good to see you too :)

The issue for me personally is not so much what the thread was about. That was secondary. My issue is this place is suppose to be a forum for brothers in arms to learn things from each other. I find there are the real alphas of the forum with heart who really do want to help guys who are downtrodden, and guys claiming to be alpha with no sense of leadership, chastising dissenters because they find something that was said questionable.

I'm no alpha (more of a sigma...I took an online test :p) so I'm interested in following my own path most the time. I have a hard time taking orders as I don't like giving them. I do, however, take what I can from SS and apply it to better myself. It just f*cking irks me when those claiming to be better than others here think their words are worth as much as their bank accounts. It isn't. You may have your money, but what about reputation? What a about honesty integrity and respect? You can't buy self aware men's affection, and I think most of us here are self aware, or realize we're on that road.
 

ThunderMaverick

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Die Hard said:
First of all: It's ironic but... Iqqi is one of the few in this thread who is making sense!

Anyway, you're not JUST arguing against a point Iqqi made, you liar... You do it to express your discomfort with the fact that people do immoral things and get away with it, or even get better from it!

In other words, you're just whining and doing nothing else. Way to go!! Clap, clap!!

We're are doing something; analyzing what good and bad behavior is to others. We're learning what some (not all women) do in situations like this. We're looking for what kind of character traits to avoid, and also things that we can do to better our relationships and ourselves.

If you expect us to say "yeah, people do immoral things. it happens" without pointing out accountability you're going to be disappointed for the rest of this thread.

Or you could play that way, be immoral yourself without learning, without guilt, and become a part of the world that eats itself and be perfectly happy.

There's more ways to play the game than one.
 

hithard

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ThunderMaverick said:
You may have your money, but what about reputation? What a about honesty integrity and respect? .
Base line none of that matters if your'e ignoring your partner, or not putting in basic relationship maintenance. Honesty integrity and respect - yes great traits for men and those men around them, and a good standard to live by. But don't somehow think this is going to pull your weight into a solid relationship on that alone. Also if you focus solely on yourself then don't be surprised when that's the only person you end up with.

Is it the guys fault?
Yes in my opinion.
He choose his partner.
He got in a rut.
He missed the signs.
He was surprised once it was done.

Did he do anything wrong to his partner?
No, and that is the point people are getting stuck on. He didn't do anything wrong in the sense of everyday normal relationships. You guys want normal then follow his lead.

Biggest suspicion is that he just picked the wrong woman and expected her to fit. But the majority of the population just fall into relationships thinking this is the one.
This guy is also not my brother in arm nor was he the other guys (that is now poking his girl) brother. Guys fu*k over guys just as much as women do it to men. I honestly could care less, it is what it is.

Why isn't it her fault? Women are not going to change no matter how much you moan about it. It seems to be ingrained and blaming them lets yourself off the hook. I see this type of thing all the time and it usually depends on emotional triggers being set off by a change in lifestyle / another guy, after a period of stagnation in the relationship.

I am in no way saying live your relationship in fear, but that you should be aware when emotional connections are at a weak point and if there will be further upcoming triggers that will snowball out of control. If a girl stops the sex, ditching them (or other women) is the first thing on my mind. It's the same thing when you cut of their emotional fix.
This type of branch swinging happens over and over amongst the masses. The amount of women that look for a quick emotional fix is overwhelming at the moment.

Secondly, BB threw out some good advice at times. All you guys that preach honesty integrity and respect should perhaps give him the minimum of letting it go, rather then tearing him down further. In no way is this an attack on anyone and I do understand the anger.
 

ThunderMaverick

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hithard said:
Base line none of that matters if your'e ignoring your partner, or not putting in basic relationship maintenance. Honesty integrity and respect - yes great traits for men and those men around them, and a good standard to live by. But don't somehow think this is going to pull your weight into a solid relationship on that alone. Also if you focus solely on yourself then don't be surprised when that's the only person you end up with.

Is it the guys fault?
Yes in my opinion.
He choose his partner.
He got in a rut.
He missed the signs.
He was surprised once it was done.

Did he do anything wrong to his partner?
No, and that is the point people are getting stuck on. He didn't do anything wrong in the sense of everyday normal relationships. You guys want normal then follow his lead.

Biggest suspicion is that he just picked the wrong woman and expected her to fit. But the majority of the population just fall into relationships thinking this is the one.
This guy is also not my brother in arm nor was he the other guys (that is now poking his girl) brother. Guys fu*k over guys just as much as women do it to men. I honestly could care less, it is what it is.

Why isn't it her fault? Women are not going to change no matter how much you moan about it. It seems to be ingrained and blaming them lets yourself off the hook. I see this type of thing all the time and it usually depends on emotional triggers being set off by a change in lifestyle / another guy, after a period of stagnation in the relationship.

I am in no way saying live your relationship in fear, but that you should be aware when emotional connections are at a weak point and if there will be further upcoming triggers that will snowball out of control. If a girl stops the sex, ditching them (or other women) is the first thing on my mind. It's the same thing when you cut of their emotional fix.
This type of branch swinging happens over and over amongst the masses. The amount of women that look for a quick emotional fix is overwhelming at the moment.

Secondly, BB threw out some good advice at times. All you guys that preach honesty integrity and respect should perhaps give him the minimum of letting it go, rather then tearing him down further. In no way is this an attack on anyone and I do understand the anger.

I understand how a lot of women work in this culture. We allow bad behavior. Saying how things are isn't owning up to your actions in life and misplaces responsibility.

We could argue about how women should or shouldn't act but the fact is that there are some women who would have taken a better approach to this situation. Maybe not most, but the exceptions are the ones we talk about here. The exceptions are the ones we should strive for, and the exceptions do exist.

Again, you're blaming the guy when a relationship is a two way street. I agree with hypergamy, but I also think being open and honest with someone you respect is a choice people make. I think, in my own opinion, that honesty is the right choice. Sure I think they're both to blame, but putting all the weight on him is unrealistic and only half the story.

And I wasn't speaking about him when I was talking about 'brothers in arms'. I was talking about US here in this forum. We all want the same thing: to be better men. We try to help each other with our own findings and mistakes.

People are upset with backbreaker because he built himself up to this God-like status, saying how he was better than most of the people here, only to show us that he's an emotional avalanche with a shady business, who runs away when people find out the truth. He's not perfect, but loved to go on about everyone else's flaws. How he knew the truth while others hid from it.

Of course some of us are angry. Do you really want me to explain further?
 

Die Hard

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ThunderMaverick said:
We're are doing something; analyzing what good and bad behavior is to others. We're learning what some (not all women) do in situations like this. We're looking for what kind of character traits to avoid, and also things that we can do to better our relationships and ourselves.
I was talking to jhl...

If you expect us to say "yeah, people do immoral things. it happens" without pointing out accountability you're going to be disappointed for the rest of this thread.
You are only disappointing yourselves, lol.

Or you could play that way, be immoral yourself without learning, without guilt, and become a part of the world that eats itself and be perfectly happy.
LOL. That was very shortsighted, or actually plain out DUMB. I'd love to see you give a reasonable explanation for the idea that immorality equates to an inability to learn. As for "the world that eats itself", I have no clue what you're getting at :confused: Sounds like cheap semantics to justify your illusions...
 

hithard

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ThunderMaverick said:
I understand how a lot of women work in this culture. We allow bad behavior. Saying how things are isn't owning up to your actions in life and misplaces responsibility.

We could argue about how women should or shouldn't act but the fact is that there are some women who would have taken a better approach to this situation. Maybe not most, but the exceptions are the ones we talk about here. The exceptions are the ones we should strive for, and the exceptions do exist.

Again, you're blaming the guy when a relationship is a two way street. I agree with hypergamy, but I also think being open and honest with someone you respect is a choice people make. I think, in my own opinion, that honesty is the right choice. Sure I think they're both to blame, but putting all the weight on him is unrealistic and only half the story.

And I wasn't speaking about him when I was talking about 'brothers in arms'. I was talking about US here in this forum. We all want the same thing: to be better men. We try to help each other with our own findings and mistakes.
Relationships are a two way street but it helps when you know some of the rules. Thunder if you got yourself in the situation would you make the same mistakes and expect me not to blame you. Yeah I expect bad behaviour from women, given a lead up of bad relationship track work by men. That doesn't mean I'm taking her side, or excusing her actions. Just that what happened was the expect result.
I don't blame men for ditching a chick at the drop of a hat because a need isn't being filled or they realize this chick isn't for them. That kind of breakup I have respect for the guy. If our original guy had of broke up with the chick just to bang another girl then I'd fully support him and lay her to the curb. It sounds like arse about logic and I'm terrible at articulating points but:
He is taking care of his business across the total spectrum. While she failed to fulfill his needs and keep his interest.
But in both cases the best thing for him is if she is gone. When she broke up with him it will force him into change (which for men is usually for the better). To add whoever walks away/cheats is the one doing the exact right thing at the exact right time - Ending a relationship that is a waste of time. If thats where it has gotten to then have the balls to embrace closure and be thankful you didn't waste anymore time with the wrong person.

But if you are in the majority of relationship coasters that stick with something despite the fact they relationship has gone grey then at least start to clue up to your relationships health status.


People are upset with backbreaker because he built himself up to this God-like status, saying how he was better than most of the people here, only to show us that he's an emotional avalanche with a shady business, who runs away when people find out the truth. He's not perfect, but loved to go on about everyone else's flaws. How he knew the truth while others hid from it.

Of course some of us are angry. Do you really want me to explain further?
And to what end does tearing him down any further achieve?
Commit the exact same thing. It's pointless.
 

ThunderMaverick

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Die Hard said:
I was talking to jhl...
And I'm addressing you now. This is what we do on a public forum :)






LOL. That was very shortsighted, or actually plain out DUMB. I'd love to see you give a reasonable explanation for the idea that immorality equates to an inability to learn. As for "the world that eats itself", I have no clue what you're getting at :confused: Sounds like cheap semantics to justify your illusions...

I'm talking about being involved in a social circle where all you do is gossip cheat and fight. As I recall there was another board member here who generalized women AND men based on the company he kept. He saturated himself in people who enjoyed irresponsibility and conflict. I'm not saying his ideals were wrong, but they were half right. The world isn't what you think it is sometimes.

I guess I phrased myself wrong when talking about immorality. You can learn to rise above it or repeat a shady process to get ahead. I'm not saying you're evil if you do something that even you think is morally wrong. I'm sure there a other variables to why you do what you do. I do think, in my opinion, that you should own up to it and take responsibility for it and not blame the world and other people.

There are things in this world that we can't control, like people. I'm not saying that everyone shares my point of view. In my experience and people I've dated, been dumped by, dumped, kept, and observed through other people, I can't agree that this branch swinging woman is justified in doing what she did. In my opinion it was low class and childish. I'm not going to only blame the man for her cheating. You want me to believe that EVERY woman would do what she did under those circumstances. The personal experiences in my life won't let me come to that conclusion. *shrugs* Maybe your life has led you to feel differently and I ain't mad at ya.


I'm not speaking for anyone else here when it comes to backbreaker. I understand why some here are pissed. I've already told you why I'm pissed.

And to what end does tearing him down any further achieve?
Commit the exact same thing. It's pointless.
It probably achieves nothing, but I like to vent sometimes :)
It should also be a lesson to the bullsh1tters claiming to be more than what they are; eventually you'll get found out and have to run away.
 

hithard

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ThunderMaverick said:
You want me to believe that EVERY woman would do what she did under those circumstances. The personal experiences in my life won't let me come to that conclusion. *shrugs* Maybe your life has led you to feel differently and I ain't mad at ya.
Given the right conditions yes I believe every women has the capability to do the same thing. Hitting the right emotional hooks at the right time and a woman will do what she normally wouldn't with you.
And yes it's through things I have witnessed first hand.
But hey it's just my opinion not fact.
no biggie
 

ThunderMaverick

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hithard said:
Given the right conditions yes I believe every women has the capability to do the same thing. Hitting the right emotional hooks at the right time and a woman will do what she normally wouldn't with you.
Yes.

Now this I have a hard time disagreeing with. I think it does come down to what a woman's experience and personal morals are - how much she thinks she can endure. After all I know several women who would have acted several different ways than the OP's example GF. I'd know a girl to cheat multiple times in this situation and not tell the BF and other girls I'd know would eventually say that she has feelings for someone else instead of cheating. Rare, I know, but it's possible.

Sh!t, given the right conditions a man is capable of killing another man or stealing from another. We're all capable of doing something heinous when certain things are in place. Knowing why and taking responsibility for it is important, I think.
 

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This all fine and dandy but you guys are missing the point here. The new guy is "the catch", the old guy was "the catch" at 22/23 but now four years later this new dude is what she wants.

I mean come on any girl in her early 20's will love to chime to her sisters that "ooo my boyfriend runs that restaurant".

Same girl in her late 20's early 30's wants to chime to her sisters that "ooo my boyfriend runs that (fill in better job here)".

Its basically looking better then her friends and subconsciously finding a man that can provide her more. Basic biology at play here.

Is the old guy a loser ? Well no not really but he doesn't seem to want to improve himself and is comfortable where he is at, plus he missed all the signs that things were going sour and he literally made his world revolve around his woman's and is really beat up about it.

And isn't this always the case though, guy gets comfortable lets his guard down and a few months/years later sh!t hits the fan and girl leaves him. Now if the guy had looked after himself played a sport was in very good shape was looking to break away from his current job and open up his own restaurant would the chick have left him ? It's hard to say but we all know a guy that's looking after himself is hot property and many women will want to snap him up.

For all we know this new guy is a sosuave poster and has spent the last few years working on himself and his game and will now spin plates with this girl, because if I was in his position I would. Plus I would have already figured out that if she can leave her old boyfriend for me then in the future she can leave me for another, and thus she would never become my A girl.

EDIT : All this integrity and honor thing being thrown around is a waste of time, you hold up other men to these values women have never known these values and don't follow them, never have never will. Just look through history and you will always see lies and deceit from a woman to always get a better deal often at the expense of a willing man.

All this love and integrity crap is just that crap, you bake your cake and the woman is meant to be the icing on the cake, can you eat the cake without the icing ? Hell yes but having icing on it makes it taste better, but its just that a little extra to make something good a bit better. Too many of you guys haven't swallowed the entire red pill yet and are still holding onto afc principles that have been brainwashed into you by your upbringing.
 

zekko

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honestly if the dude would have just attempted to move forward in life i think she would have stuck it out. she liked him. she never came out and said it but, **** it gets old never being able to go anywhere never being able to do anything. we go to hawaii at the end of the year and the only way she/they can come is if i pay for it. that **** gets old.
I think this is what the real problem with this guy was. It's not that he wasn't "moving forward" and had allowed himself to become "stagnant". It's that he simply wasn't making enough money.

This girl was best friends with BB's wife, who was living in BB's big house and supposedly living large on his gambling winnings. Plus BB said his wife was a "trust fund baby", getting $3000 a month from a trust fund. That's $36,000 a year - not a lot, but a nice base to build from. The girl was probably annoyed that her best friend was living such a higher lifestyle than she was, so when she saw her chance she took it.

The guy has been faulted for not being ambitious enough. Maybe that's true. But for a woman, being ambitious doesn't mean going out and getting a better career herself. It means latching on to a man who has more money. If she can marry the guy, it's a win/win situation. She can live the lifestyle while she's married to him, and pick up a nice severence check when/if they get divorced. If she can get pregnant, there's more security.

The thing we don't know here is if this new guy is even willing to be exclusive with her, let alone marry her. If this was back in the 50s or before, she wouldn't have been able to take the financial risk of leaving her old arrangement to try to make the branch swing. Whereas nowdays, if the new branch breaks, she can work her receptionist job to support her (at least temporarily). This is the new reality, and unfortunately guys playing under the old (traditional) roles will be at a disadvantage in the dating world, and subject to this kind of behavior.
 

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I don't like how its just taken as fact that the guy isnt motivated simply because of his job title. There was never enough details to arrive at that assumption. He could've worked his way up from bus boy, that qualifies as motivated to me. We don't know.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Well,...that was quite the slog, but I managed to read everything from the OP up to here.

I have to admit I don't participate on SS nearly as much as I probably should these days, what with writing my blog (soon to be book) and the runaway success of the 2 brands I developed and launched this year. I do moderate, but that's not the same as taking the time to craft a well-thought forum post.

It's really difficult for me to offer anything here that I haven't already covered many times before in the 9 or so years I've been contributing to SS. IQQI is still using the forum for her own personal catharsis (How's The Wall treating you?) and the debates over women's presumed ethical obligations being superseded by their innate hypergamy still persist. But in the interest of participating lets see if I can add a few things here.

The OP Couple

As I wrote in Navigating the SMP there is a particular window of opportunity for women whilst in their prime SMV years (22-24) that less and less women want to consciously recognize – or at least they aren't encouraged to recognize thanks to feminized social conventions. Precious few women are self-aware of the hypergamic impulses their subconscious is driven by, and thus their behaviors are manifestations of.

When women get to be 25-29 there is a limbic, subliminal understanding that her window of hypergamic opportunity is closing. A woman's hindbrain knows on an animalistic level that her period of maximally optimizing her hypergamy is closing, thus the motivation to pair off monogamously with the best provisioning male begins to take priority over ƒucking the best genetic (most sexually arousing) males she was happy to pair off with in her prime (22-24).

Our subject woman is merely a common illustration of this process. So, in this respect, and strictly for purpose of example, I can understand BACKBREAKER's line of reasoning. Young men need to be aware of the ruthlessness and callousness of this feral, evolutionary process. As a Man, you do in fact need to keep pace with the hypergamic imperative that WILL rear its ugly head when the moment and opportunity of a better hypergamic prospect present itself.

If there's fault to be found it's not in women's seeming duplicity about her 'feelings' and her hypergamy-motivated actions; the real fault is in young Men believing in pollyanna fantasies about true love, soul-mates and feminized romance porn in favor of the harsh realities of hypergamy.

But ethical wonks want to have their say, "She's a slut! She's a hypocrite! Perfidious woman! Have you no honor? Men are made of different stuff, we're the moral cement that holds society together, unlike you amoral weaklings." No one gets mad when wolves in the tundra tear the throat from a caribou. No one calls them evil for messily devouring the carcass; they're just doing what nature has embedded into their instincts to do.

"But human's aren't wolves Rollo, we have freewill, you wouldn't understand because you're not as morally attuned as I am." Human's aren't wolves, and we do in fact exercise a great measure of freewill, but for all of that, presumptively righteous, self-guided refusal of determinism we are still subject to the same feral instincts. Our natural state is not one of self-control, so why are we shocked at the environment that sets the frame for us to even have any concept of what control even is?

We ignore at our peril the evolutionary results that directed us to the conditions we find ourselves in. When it doesn't serve our purpose we call it weakness or moral turpitude; but when it does, that feral energy, that righteous anger, that sweaty bloodlust we evolved in the wilderness so long ago that helped us run down a caribou ourselves, that instinct we call courage or determination and we put angels wings on it in appreciation.

So yeah, this girl did what her instincts prompted her to. I'm not defending her methods (and I doubt BB was either), I'm just saying people need to set aside their attachments to casting her action exclusively in a moral context and understand the latent purpose behind them. Then, plan accordingly for your own situation when you encounter this.

Con-artist or not, BB gets this part of the equation. Hypergamy doesn't care about your moral interpretations. You really want an indignation rise? Go read War Brides. Yeah, that's some really ƒucked up hypergamy right there, but the question isn't whether it's moral or not, the question is 'what do you plan to do about it?'
 

Atom Smasher

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Your theories here apply to a subset of women who have a propensity toward a hypergamous paradigm, whether by cultural infuence or breeding.

If men caved to their instictual drives the world would be even more chaotic than it already is. Most men understand that to actualize oneself he must make decisions that are contrary to those drives. He must beat his own instinct into submission, so-to-speak.

There was a time not too long ago when the same (although on a different scale) was expected of women. And by-and-large they were capable of a much higher sense of values back then. We value the rule of law because we are moral agents, unlike animals and inanimate objects.

What I'm saying in a nutshell is: "Instincts, my ass." Instincts are a prompt, not a compulsion.

If I am called, as a man, to rise above my base instincts to acheive a higher purpose in society, the same is to be expected of women. What we are witnessing in Western society is not so much caving in to instinctual compulsion as it is the result of media brainwashing. The powers that be know this, and they have used the media to great effect. A direct attempt to dismantle society by attacking the man is fraught with difficulties and the promise of vigorous resistance. To destroy the man, you destroy the woman, the weaker one who is prone to deception.
 

zekko

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When women get to be 25-29 there is a limbic, subliminal understanding that her window of hypergamic opportunity is closing. A woman's hindbrain knows on an animalistic level that her period of maximally optimizing her hypergamy is closing, thus the motivation to pair off monogamously with the best provisioning male begins to take priority over ƒucking the best genetic (most sexually arousing) males she was happy to pair off with in her prime (22-24).
Right, but PUAs tend to characterize this provisioning male as some sort of beta type, as she leaves the alphas behind. Or more commonly (according to PUA myth) she continues to bang the alphas while she is married to the provider guy.

I don't see any suggestion in Backbreaker's original tale that the restaurant guy was an alpha type, or a best genetic material type, or that the new guy is any less alpha or good looking than the first guy. In fact, the way it is presented, the new guy sounds like a better deal all around.

So I definitely don't see this as a case of her "settling" because of her advancing age. It sounds to me like she is legitimately more turned on by this new guy, and became bored with her old relationship.
 

Findog

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I think hypergamy is a spectrum, and this girl was at one extreme end of it. If all women are "like that" then no man can ever feel like his relationship is on firm and steady footing, no matter how well things seem to be going on the surface. In response to that, it logically makes relationships probably an effort not worth undertaking. Or if you are to enter into a relationship, you have to take an "expect the worst, hope for the best" attitude, and make arrangements should the worst come to fruition.

If I were the new guy with the condo and BMW, this girl is nothing more than a casual plate to me considering her behavior.

I just think that, yes, women have this hypergamous instinct but it varies woman to woman how they will handle things. I bet some girls would have stuck with the guy. I have a buddy, he's a real indie music hipster snob, met his now-wife on a message board for a band they both like. They met up at ACL after getting to know each other online. They have pretty much been an item ever since. Problem is, he was living in Texas, she was living in Toronto. They did long-distance for a couple of years until he finally was able to acquire a work visa to move to Canada to be with her. After he was unable to find a job his first few months, they got married so he could stay. He's been there a year and still hasn't found a job and is basically a house husband. I think he's taken some CCA classes, but still unemployed, still a house husband. Given the dynamic I've observed between them, she's probably not dumping him anytime soon. And she's a solid 6-7 on the looks scale. He's not bad looking himself but he's no Clooney either.
 

Burroughs

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Danger said:
The reason Men are generally more well behaved than women is due to the responsibility we were not allowed to shed alongside women's tearing up of their side of the social contract. Men are held accountable via family court, women are not.

They can deny sex, emotionally or mentally abuse men at will, only to finally divorce and walk away with cash and prizes.

Now, as a result, we have a situation where hypergamy runs amuck without any checks and balances.

In short, women have all of the power and men have all of the responsbilities.

Until men wise up, stop shaming the MRA, and actually get involved and push for true equality and not feminist propoganda, such things will never stop. The gender relation war will keep escalating until balance is forced by either too many men joining the ranks of the cads and a high tax oppressive state results in order to feed all of the illegitimate children, or women come to heel on their own.

Which direction are we currently headed and as a result, which do you think will happen first?
Right on the money as usual danger

@rollo hypergamy is an important element that undoubtably shaped culture but you forget one important fact all major civilizations since the dawn of time from sumer, to egypt, to rome treated 99% of women (excepting royalty) as property to be ruled by men

this essentially wiped away the power of female hypergamy...of course women still cheated but the penalty was severe..not because of morality but because you sleeping with my woman is like you stealing my car and crashing it....and now the car...err women is garbage.

women are forever mentally children and must be owned by first the father the the husband, without this society unravels

this is a fact few men truly comprehend they see how women act hypergamously to continuously better their position and they fail to see this is why women were placed under the yoke of men, so that men could build the engine of society unhindered by female conceit and inefficiencies thus limiting hypergamy and its sway.
 

Rollo Tomassi

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Atom Smasher said:
Your theories here apply to a subset of women who have a propensity toward a hypergamous paradigm, whether by cultural infuence or breeding.
Step away from the pulpit for a minute. The very fact that you're even aware of some imbalance, moral or otherwise, in the 'natural order of things' only proves that ALL women are hypergamous. It's not a subset of women who've reengineered our social norms towards a hypergamous agenda for the past century. All women are hardwired for hypergamy, the context may change between the slut and the virgin, but trust, they all run the same subroutine.

You may believe that your virgin bride chose you from the masses of 'lesser men' because she had some intrinsic, ephemeral appreciation for your virtuousness, but the truth is she chose you because you best fit her definition of her ideal of hypergamy. You're were what she thought was the best she could do with her understanding at the time.

Optimizing hypergamy is the underlying, ambient theme behind every social redefinition regarding gender since the sexual revolution. Hypergamy has always been there, only recently has it been given total unrestricted influence in society.
 
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