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It will be the most efficient use of your time.

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I Feel Nothing (High Testosterone Edition)

noctorious

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Hi all,
(Apologies if this the wrong place for this)

It's been a while.

Not many approaches, one (pseudo) date, some matches and decent texting later, here I am.

I recently got my T levels checked. I'm 25 , exercise 5 times a week (lifting 3 times boxing 2 times) and have a decent enough diet. No drugs and I like to drink a little, nothing crazy.

I got them checked because I have no libido. Or very low libido. For the past ten years I have had little to no motivation to approach women. Occasionally I would, but usually I would force myself to go through the process and not chicken out.

The last time I remember being "into girls" or horny or getting spontaneous erections or erections by just looking at girls I was 15/16. That doesn't happen anymore. Ever.

Well, turns out my T levels are high. Almost at the upper end of the expected limit. 23 nmol/L was the reading, 29 nmol/L is the upper end according to the test.

This leaves me confused. I was really hoping it was all down to low T, go on TRT and poof - sex life re-activated! Not so simple alas.

WTF is wrong with me? I have stopped watching pornography but I don't think I ever watched an abnormal amount? Perhaps I did. Maybe a few months of being clean will do me a world of good.

To me, I only see girls as technically beautiful. There is no carnal instinct. It's like looking at a glass that is well made and a beautiful piece of art - just that and nothing more. I know they are good looking, sexy, well put together. Yet there is nothing, not anymore.

I hold out hope because I remember what I used to feel.

What is wrong with me? Maybe it was the porn. I'll see in the next few weeks/months if that alone does it.

Maybe I need therapy. God help me if I do.

TIA for any advice and the space to vent. Pure, pure misery that I want to end ASAP.
 

Kotaix

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That's tough. There is the possibility that you're asexual, I know one person who is like this. The problem is that you'll be very hard pressed to find any kind of help that isn't a woketard with pronouns in their bio.

Do you enjoy the company of women at all? Do you still get it up to porn?
 

Hamurabimbi

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Hi all,
(Apologies if this the wrong place for this)

It's been a while.

Not many approaches, one (pseudo) date, some matches and decent texting later, here I am.

I recently got my T levels checked. I'm 25 , exercise 5 times a week (lifting 3 times boxing 2 times) and have a decent enough diet. No drugs and I like to drink a little, nothing crazy.

I got them checked because I have no libido. Or very low libido. For the past ten years I have had little to no motivation to approach women. Occasionally I would, but usually I would force myself to go through the process and not chicken out.

The last time I remember being "into girls" or horny or getting spontaneous erections or erections by just looking at girls I was 15/16. That doesn't happen anymore. Ever.

Well, turns out my T levels are high. Almost at the upper end of the expected limit. 23 nmol/L was the reading, 29 nmol/L is the upper end according to the test.

This leaves me confused. I was really hoping it was all down to low T, go on TRT and poof - sex life re-activated! Not so simple alas.

WTF is wrong with me? I have stopped watching pornography but I don't think I ever watched an abnormal amount? Perhaps I did. Maybe a few months of being clean will do me a world of good.

To me, I only see girls as technically beautiful. There is no carnal instinct. It's like looking at a glass that is well made and a beautiful piece of art - just that and nothing more. I know they are good looking, sexy, well put together. Yet there is nothing, not anymore.

I hold out hope because I remember what I used to feel.

What is wrong with me? Maybe it was the porn. I'll see in the next few weeks/months if that alone does it.

Maybe I need therapy. God help me if I do.

TIA for any advice and the space to vent. Pure, pure misery that I want to end ASAP.
consider a retest of T levels. Then see an MD who specializes in male issues. Could also be sleep, diet or stress issues. Have you been with a woman ?
 

Pierce Manhammer

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You need to know your free T, shbg, e2, shbg tells you how much of your free t is available to your system and not bound, additionally e2 competes for binding sites with t so if your e2 is high you’re not getting the benefit of your bioavailable t.

You need to find a physician that specializes in men’s health, believes in HRT, and knows endocrinology to make sure that your issue is not hormonal.
 

noctorious

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That's tough. There is the possibility that you're asexual, I know one person who is like this. The problem is that you'll be very hard pressed to find any kind of help that isn't a woketard with pronouns in their bio.

Do you enjoy the company of women at all? Do you still get it up to porn?

I think p0rn is an issue. Been clear of it for weeks now - longest ever stretch I think - thank God.

I have been resentful and angry because I was a failure with woman, soothing with p0rn. Horrible, horrible cycle.

It can take a while to reboot and rewire from p0rn. So I'm not too worried about instant results, but I definitely need to womanise nonetheless.
 

noctorious

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consider a retest of T levels. Then see an MD who specializes in male issues. Could also be sleep, diet or stress issues. Have you been with a woman ?

Maybe, I am stressed - but enough to not be into woman at all? I don't think so, personally.



Total test means nothing. What was your free test level?

I will follow up on this. I suspect it will be fine, but maybe not. My thinking is that p0rn addiction has been the killer, especially since I've been doing it for years at this point.

Appreciate the advice folks
 

BackInTheGame78

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I will follow up on this. I suspect it will be fine, but maybe not. My thinking is that p0rn addiction has been the killer, especially since I've been doing it for years at this point.

Appreciate the advice folks
Unlikely
 

Fortune_favors_the_bold

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My bets are on porn, stress and prolactine.

It's not uncommon to have high prolactine levels when one lives a stressful life or overtrains.
 

Pierce Manhammer

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My bets are on porn, stress and prolactine.

It's not uncommon to have high prolactine levels when one lives a stressful life or overtrains.
As the man said prolactin. Get ahold of some cabergoline. If you need help with dosages and how to source it hit me up I can point you in the correct directions.
 

noctorious

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My bets are on porn, stress and prolactine.

It's not uncommon to have high prolactine levels when one lives a stressful life or overtrains.

It's been a few good weeks of p0rn. Starting to feel soem real differences.

There was a cute girl today.....messed up by not asking her name/number, she did my eye test.

Actually really annoyed with myself for not acting.

Haven't felt like this in forever. It's a good sign, my urges are coming back
 

noctorious

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As the man said prolactin. Get ahold of some cabergoline. If you need help with dosages and how to source it hit me up I can point you in the correct directions.

I've come across prolactin in my own research. I don't feel terribly stressed, but again something worth looking into.

Thanks for the offer. I may very well take you up on that if it comes to it.
 

RazorRambo24

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Sexual rigidity occurs when men are not completely comfortable being around women.. Thus their body and libido cannot relax enough to feel aroused. Growing up how many interactions have you had wiht women in a non sexual way but in a sensual way like friends or anything? There has to be some connection with the opposite sex to where u feel comfortable around girls to be able to be turned on by them

The people w ho have this issue you're saying are dealing with sexual rigidity.. meaning a severe lack of experience socializing and interacting with the opposite sex + usually they programmed themselves to only trigger their sexual energy through porn. Its like being A-sexual in a way.. or being only able to feel aroused while ALONE.
 

noctorious

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Sexual rigidity occurs when men are not completely comfortable being around women.. Thus their body and libido cannot relax enough to feel aroused. Growing up how many interactions have you had wiht women in a non sexual way but in a sensual way like friends or anything? There has to be some connection with the opposite sex to where u feel comfortable around girls to be able to be turned on by them

The people w ho have this issue you're saying are dealing with sexual rigidity.. meaning a severe lack of experience socializing and interacting with the opposite sex + usually they programmed themselves to only trigger their sexual energy through porn. Its like being A-sexual in a way.. or being only able to feel aroused while ALONE.

I have had female friends for sure.

It would usually get a little awkward as I didn't mive things forward or just found it too much and left lol.

Or they had a bf and it wasn't going anywhere.

Thinking about it, I should just enjoy the moment for what it is. Although I'm gonna need some new female friends.
 

SW15

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This is a complex issue. I think the problem is more mental than physical. I'll go through some comments now to support the conclusion.

I recently got my T levels checked. I'm 25 , exercise 5 times a week (lifting 3 times boxing 2 times) and have a decent enough diet. No drugs and I like to drink a little, nothing crazy.

I got them checked because I have no libido. Or very low libido. For the past ten years I have had little to no motivation to approach women. Occasionally I would, but usually I would force myself to go through the process and not chicken out.

The last time I remember being "into girls" or horny or getting spontaneous erections or erections by just looking at girls I was 15/16. That doesn't happen anymore. Ever.

Well, turns out my T levels are high. Almost at the upper end of the expected limit. 23 nmol/L was the reading, 29 nmol/L is the upper end according to the test.

WTF is wrong with me? I have stopped watching pornography but I don't think I ever watched an abnormal amount? Perhaps I did. Maybe a few months of being clean will do me a world of good.
It is good that you took the action to get your testosterone checked. At the very least, you don't have low testosterone. You have a good exercise plan in place. You're likely not overweight.

Do you box in cardio type boxing classes at a place like Title Boxing? Title Boxing is the biggest chain that I'm aware of in that space. Those types of classes are decent places to meet women. Ratios are good but women are often very sociable before/after classes.

I think p0rn is an issue. Been clear of it for weeks now - longest ever stretch I think - thank God.

I have been resentful and angry because I was a failure with woman, soothing with p0rn. Horrible, horrible cycle.

It can take a while to reboot and rewire from p0rn. So I'm not too worried about instant results, but I definitely need to womanise nonetheless.
It is likely that porn is an issue and possibly the primary issue. You're likely to need a brain re-wiring from porn. It is good that you are currently keeping away from porn and masturbation. You need to keep this going. In high school, you were likely traumatized from rejections. What's your height? I'm curious if you took rejections due to being short. Additionally, did your parent/parents relocate you at least once during the K-12 years? Both relocations and being shorter than average will cause high school era rejections and relocations will weaken your social circle/create bullying situations. Did you also attend college and take brutal rejections there? A lot of men go to college and college fails to live up to their sexual expectations. We have a good thread about college sex lives.


There are probably some emotional issues in place from high school/college era rejections and possibly other traumas. Since I said earlier that I think this is psychological, you'll probably need to see some psychologist/psychiatrist/counselor. Getting psychotherapy alone will not make you a great seducer. No psychotherapist can make you a good approacher. Psychotherapy can help with some smaller elements of seduction, like getting you to a mentally healthier state which can help in the overall social impressions that you give off.

Most psychotherapists (psychologists/psychiatrists/counselors) are either blue pill beta males or women. Your mental health professional will either be a beta male, a heterosexual woman, or a lesbian/bisexual woman. None of those 3 options are ideal for teaching you dating skills, though any of those 3 might be able to address psychological issues.

You might also want to explore if you need a mental health professional with expertise in sexual addiction topics if it is deemed that you were once a porn addict.

I have had female friends for sure.

It would usually get a little awkward as I didn't mive things forward or just found it too much and left lol.

Or they had a bf and it wasn't going anywhere.

Thinking about it, I should just enjoy the moment for what it is. Although I'm gonna need some new female friends.
There are probably issues around your social skills, which none of us can fully diagnose over the internet on a forum. You are 25, meaning you're a part of Gen Z. Gen Z is not known for their social skills in general.

Female friends can help with social circle introductions. You may or may not need female friends. I don't think making female friends should be a priority. Psychotherapy and your overall social skills might be the 2nd biggest priority, whereas the #1 priority is staying away from porn.
 
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noctorious

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This is a complex issue. I think the problem is more mental than physical. I'll go through some comments now to support the conclusion.

It is good that you took the action to get your testosterone checked. At the very least, you don't have low testosterone. You have a good exercise plan in place. You're likely not overweight.

Do you box in cardio type boxing classes at a place like Title Boxing? Title Boxing is the biggest chain that I'm aware of in that space. Those types of classes are decent places to meet women. Ratios are good but women are often very sociable before/after classes.
It's an amateur/semi-pro boxing gym. There are classes for women only, but I train with four or five other guys at a time. Most people there are preparing to do real fights etc. Good fun, good workout, no girls lol. Not a big deal, it's refreshing to have a dude space.

In high school, you were likely traumatized from rejections. What's your height? I'm curious if you took rejections due to being short. Additionally, did your parent/parents relocate you at least once during the K-12 years? Both relocations and being shorter than average will cause high school era rejections and relocations will weaken your social circle/create bullying situations.
I'm 6'0, maybe 6'1. Have a really deep voice, or so people tell me. I'm not into singing or anything but I'm a bass. Was always skinny fat and whatnot, but the gym has been improving that. Parents never moved. I was bullied for being cringey/romantic in school. Looking back makes me sick with embarrassment.

I had my first few dates when I was 15/16. It was a difficult time as my brother had just passed. I don't know if it was out of sympathy, or if I had hit puberty and the voice dropped, or a combination of the two. Maybe I simply zoned out and stopped caring about everything and anything then.

My parents never discussed sex or relationships with me. They're not religious people or strict. Quite the opposite, in fact. They talk in platitudes and generalities all the time "be happy" "do whatever you want" "whatever makes you happy" "settle down" etc.

I once asked my Dad what I should do with my life. He looked at me, blank stare, then starts suggesting some vague ideas relating to marketing blah blah blah. Evidently we don't have a relationship of any substance. I've never heard him say the word 'sex' either. He had five children. Go figure.

I don't know if they ever had this talk with my siblings. I'll ask when I next see them.

Both of my parents are boomers FYI.

Did you also attend college and take brutal rejections there? A lot of men go to college and college fails to live up to their sexual expectations. We have a good thread about college sex lives.
Will give that a read, cheers. When I was at University, I fell in love with a girl. When I was with her I was on cloud nine, it was bliss. Every second. When I wasn't....I wanted to 'unalive' myself every second. Total despair. I did a pack of cigarettes to numb the misery, didn't work. She had a boyfriend and I had no clue what I was doing. A toxic combination.

There were a few moments with other girls after that, but I didn't know what I was doing or looking for. I longed to be in the library when I was in the club. No one discussed the nuts and bolts of socialising at university - I'm probably a bit autistic, reading between the lines is challenging at the best of times. Things just don't occur to me that occur to other people.

As I said, never had a sex education of any kind and only have conversations when my cousin tries to get me to talk to girls - by having a go at me and telling me to embrace rejection. Good advice, although it just doesn't sink in.

I don't want to blame this on other people. Ultimately it comes down to me. This is my life.
I'm taking back control by quitting the porn. It feels good to be off it and I will remain off of it.

There are probably some emotional issues in place from high school/college era rejections and possibly other traumas. Since I said earlier that I think this is psychological, you'll probably need to see some psychologist/psychiatrist/counselor. Getting psychotherapy alone will not make you a great seducer. No psychotherapist can make you a good approacher. Psychotherapy can help with some smaller elements of seduction, like getting you to a mentally healthier state which can help in the overall social impressions that you give off.

Most psychotherapists (psychologists/psychiatrists/counselors) are either blue pill beta males or women. Your mental health professional will either be a beta male, a heterosexual woman, or a lesbian/bisexual woman. None of those 3 options are ideal for teaching you dating skills, though any of those 3 might be able to address psychological issues.

You might also want to explore if you need a mental health professional with expertise in sexual addiction topics if it is deemed that you were once a porn addict.
I honestly view therapy as a failure. Old-school Tony Soprano view I know, but still. In fairness I don't see many other options.

Thanks for the reply, a lot to chew on.
 

SW15

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It's an amateur/semi-pro boxing gym. There are classes for women only, but I train with four or five other guys at a time. Most people there are preparing to do real fights etc. Good fun, good workout, no girls lol. Not a big deal, it's refreshing to have a dude space.
Very different environment from Title Boxing.


I'm 6'0, maybe 6'1. Have a really deep voice, or so people tell me. I'm not into singing or anything but I'm a bass. Was always skinny fat and whatnot, but the gym has been improving that. Parents never moved. I was bullied for being cringey/romantic in school. Looking back makes me sick with embarrassment.

I had my first few dates when I was 15/16. It was a difficult time as my brother had just passed. I don't know if it was out of sympathy, or if I had hit puberty and the voice dropped, or a combination of the two. Maybe I simply zoned out and stopped caring about everything and anything then.

My parents never discussed sex or relationships with me. They're not religious people or strict. Quite the opposite, in fact. They talk in platitudes and generalities all the time "be happy" "do whatever you want" "whatever makes you happy" "settle down" etc.

I once asked my Dad what I should do with my life. He looked at me, blank stare, then starts suggesting some vague ideas relating to marketing blah blah blah. Evidently we don't have a relationship of any substance. I've never heard him say the word 'sex' either. He had five children. Go figure.

Both of my parents are boomers FYI.
When I read about your upbringing, I don't see a lot of the classic red flags for childhood traumas that would tend to affect dating/relationships outcomes later in life. The classic red flags I look for are....

-Childhood relocations. This is one of the the worst risk factors I see. Childhood relocations weaken social circles and can lead to school bullying. Early adulthood (ages 18-29) relocations aren't all that great either, as these relocations also weaken social circles, making dating more difficult.

-Childhood poverty
-Shortness
-One of the youngest in the grade level
-Parental divorce
-Attending an all-male high school
-STEM interests and K-12 dorkiness, which leads to bullying.

The biggest issues I see from your upbringing is beta male conditioning and a sibling death.

If you parents were Boomers and you were born in 1998, your parents had you later in life. The youngest Boomers were born in 1964, so your parents were at least 34 when you were born. You were likely the youngest or 2nd to youngest sibling given the age of your parents.

As a younger one in the birth order, you'd be more likely to be carefree and irresponsible, which is good. Oldest and only children are the most ambitious, most serious, most determined. There are good seducers from any birth order.

I'm probably a bit autistic, reading between the lines is challenging at the best of times. Things just don't occur to me that occur to other people.
There's a chance you are autistic or have Asperger's syndrome. Have you ever been formally tested for either Autism or Asperger's?

You had parents who were both 34+ when you were born. That's a major risk factor for Autism or Asperger's.

When I was at University, I fell in love with a girl. When I was with her I was on cloud nine, it was bliss. Every second. When I wasn't....I wanted to 'unalive' myself every second. Total despair. I did a pack of cigarettes to numb the misery, didn't work. She had a boyfriend and I had no clue what I was doing. A toxic combination.

There were a few moments with other girls after that, but I didn't know what I was doing or looking for. I longed to be in the library when I was in the club. No one discussed the nuts and bolts of socialising at university -
When I read this, I see typical blue pill crap in the first text box. You developed one-itis for some class who was likely in one of your gen ed or major classes. She said she had a boyfriend and you didn't use a boyfriend destroyer line on her. Even if a woman tells the truth about having a boyfriend, you want to at least use a boyfriend destroyer line on her to rattle her psychologically. The boyfriend destroyer line typically won't work in that situation but the fact that you were able to deliver the boyfriend destroyer line is something that you can use to build confidence in future approaches. No psychotherapist will teach you that lesson. Google 'boyfriend destroyer lines' for future situations when a woman uses the "I Have a Boyfriend" (IHAB) excuse.

I actually thought the IHAB was dead because after hearing it more in the 2000s, I stopped hearing it much after the early 2010s. This video from 2021 of a novice daygamer shows that the IHAB excuse is still alive.


I analyzed this video here......


The last 2 sentences of the 2nd text block indicate introversion and social skill issues. Introversion alone isn't a problem. There are plenty of good seducers who are introverts. Nightlife venue approaching is a terrible fit for more introverted personalities. In theory, online dating is good for introverts but in practice it isn't due to the toxic environment around the tech-based date arranging methods. For introverts, I'd recommend non-bar approaching or social circle game. You probably don't have a social circle right now capable of arranging first dates for you, so it's likely that you'd need to do non-bar approaching.

In order to do non-bar approaching well, you need to continue to avoid porn, avoid masturbation, eat healthy, lift weights/box, and sleep well. You can also find daygame content on SoSuave forums and via Google/YouTube searches.

As for your social skills, it'd be good to know if you have Autism/Asperger's and then get treatment for it if you do. Even if you are not on the Autism/Asperger's spectrum, your generational cohort as a whole isn't known for great social skills due to the rise of anti-real life socialization technologies.

As I said, never had a sex education of any kind and only have conversations when my cousin tries to get me to talk to girls - by having a go at me and telling me to embrace rejection. Good advice, although it just doesn't sink in.
That's somewhat problematic. I believe I learned more from sex while watching television in the 1990s than from talks with my parents. I also recall some sex ed in school around 7th/8th grade and also in 10th grade Health class. Did you not have sex ed in junior high or high school?

Sex ed doesn't teach anything about creating attraction and getting to the seduction. Most of sex ed focuses on the act of sex itself and birth control methodologies. You don't learn how to get to the act of sex in sex ed.

I don't want to blame this on other people. Ultimately it comes down to me. This is my life.
I'm taking back control by quitting the porn. It feels good to be off it and I will remain off of it.
Very good attitude.

I honestly view therapy as a failure. Old-school Tony Soprano view I know, but still. In fairness I don't see many other options.
It's not a failure. What would be a bigger failure is doing nothing. You need help and there is no shame in admitting that. At the very least, you need diagnoses regarding porn addiction and Autism/Asperger's. You might also need some trauma therapy over a sibling's death. I can't diagnose you on the internet and I am not a mental health professional. You need to see one of those. Realize that seeing a therapist of some kind is only going to help in terms of your mental outlook and how you present yourself in extended interactions.

A blue pill beta male therapist or female therapist is not going to be able to teach you how to approach women in bookstores, grocery stores, malls, etc. You'd need to learn that from YouTube content, SoSuave threads, and books like "Mystery Method", "The Rational Male", etc.
 

noctorious

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My parents had me when they were 40. I have been diagnosed with Autism at University, but once again I don't want to hide behind it. That whole "scene" was so pathetic, ugh, pathetic.

It's not a failure. What would be a bigger failure is doing nothing. You need help and there is no shame in admitting that. At the very least, you need diagnoses regarding porn addiction and Autism/Asperger's. You might also need some trauma therapy over a sibling's death.
Yeah, I might just have to do that. I can get access to the appropriate resources, I know where to go. Maybe they can help with the social skill side of things too, but my focus will be my

Did you not have sex ed in junior high or high school?
Went to catholic school all my life. Catholics don't do "sex ed", even in this day and age :lol:

For introverts, I'd recommend non-bar approaching or social circle game. You probably don't have a social circle right now capable of arranging first dates for you, so it's likely that you'd need to do non-bar approaching.
This is something I am very interested in. Non-bar approaching sounds right up my alley. Cold approaching is scary, but there are a ton of good threads (that's why I'm here) going through cold approach and explaining do's and dont's.

I have gotten all the recommended books, Mystery Rollo etc. Good stuff in there. Nearly finished with Mystery but I definetly want to try some of this out.

But that's it. I have to try it out. Easy to say, hard to do - at least in the beginning.
 
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