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How to socialize with women if you have a weak frame?

MtmVaott

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Confidence does have to be not earned. You project it. You don't plan to change and improve yourself. You do it now. You project it.
I didn't understand what you meant by this at all. I came up with one of your older posts though. This one: https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/female-validation.270336/post-2862292 .
You wrote, someone who does an activity can only expect to receive the goal of the activity itself, but nothing more. If you expect more, this is something you want to externally push your self-esteem with.
In several tips floating around here and on YouTube, you'll hear something like:
Do martial arts in order to become more [manly, aggressive, alive, present, ..........].
For me this already seemed like a flawed advice, and I was never able to stick to an activity I started for such a reason.
And your post seems to underline this. And the bolded quote is making sense now as well.
"Improving" through an activity itself is deeply flawed and is mostly boosting external self esteem. I have great troubles to break away from this kind of thinking.
It would result in me doing only things I want to do because of the result itself or how I expect it would make me feel (joyful, energized, ...).

I'm not sure what you mean with "confidence". Self-trust needs to be proven by yourself by plan-action-reward patterns and by avoiding to make up excuses.
The feeling of confidence, i.e. the feeling of an anticipated action probably having a positive outcome, is the other meaning of confidence. Do you have a tip on this one?
 

MtmVaott

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That's all great.

But you might want to tackle your self esteem, self validation issues first.

First be okay just by being by yourself and comfortable in your own skin.

As for making friends and building a social circle, there's plenty of ways to do this, you can research the stories on this site. There's meet up app and you can go out volunteer somewhere, take an art class at a college somewhere, you can go on Instagram and go to the 'Places' section and search the places you like to visit and there might be a local dude you can hit up and make friends with.

What you want to do is build a daily routine around your hobbies/ interests and venture out to some places you can chill where you can meet new people afterwards. When you do this, it gives off a more spontaneous and natural vibe. So if you like mma or basketball, go to a coffee shop or the park afterwards, after each sessions to maybe meet some new people. The people can sense your confidence and that you did something with your time and that you have a life.

Best of luck.
This post has been a guideline for me what to address first, thank you.
I stalled the whole socializing thing, even with men, as you and @eli77 implied.

As self-esteem is a bunch of topics, I stumbled over
- creating own boundaries and asserting them in a self-assured way
- (self-) validating own thoughts, emotions and actions (Am I right to feel/think/act the way I do? Yes, absolutely! Yes, makes sense because of xyz, but ...)

I am making this thread my "sosuave progress diary", at least until I have the "luxury" to learn how to deal with women.
Feel free to make suggestions, critizism or to ask questions yourself.
 

Kotaix

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I'm not sure what you mean with "confidence". Self-trust needs to be proven by yourself by plan-action-reward patterns and by avoiding to make up excuses.
The feeling of confidence, i.e. the feeling of an anticipated action probably having a positive outcome, is the other meaning of confidence. Do you have a tip on this one?
I don't know if you've ever played an instrument to the point that you're good at it, but one of the things that you discover when you really get good is that playing well isn't about trying really hard, it's about letting go and letting the music happen. If you try to play well, you'll just stumble all over yourself, overthink it, and the music will suck.

Plan/action/reward isn't a bad thing, but for most people that usually implies that you'll be confident/happy/successful at some future state in time. This kind of thinking precludes you from being confident now because your confidence is tied to the reward. You're living for an imagined future state which doesn't exist and almost certainly never will.

Confidence is not "I'm awesome and I know it". Confidence is "I'm doing the best I can with what I have, and I'm not afraid to fail".

Live now and enjoy yourself now.
 

MtmVaott

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I have one tip. Remember: just the tip isn't sinful.
I see. How would you make a new, stronger frame?
I already came up with the idea to write down lists of boundaries between me and myself, me and others (male men and default (both men and women)), and me and (potential) partners.
 

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BackInTheGame78

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Work on yourself first and foremost. Gotta crawl before you walk and then walk before you run. You can't run a 3K before you can crawl which is what you are trying to do.
 

MtmVaott

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Back to the original topic:
I made the thread mainly because of a flatmate of me, and a staff member at my gym.

I've realized (now) there was a tension between me and my flatmate, but I knew she had a boyfriend. A morning after a night out with her and my flatmates, I texted her what she was up for today, and she wrote she will be busy doing x if she feels OK, without mentioning to have time later that day. That was a case of non-compliance, and I've realized she was solely interested in getting validated by me, which I did right from the start for free.
I conclude for me to always:
- give my validation, attention, energy, sympathy and time to the extent that it is valuable to me
- appreciate cooperative and compliant actions with clear intentions far more than actions to make me feel externally validated (by gifts,favors,smiles,glances,...)
- appreciate actions to make me feel externally validated, which are coming from the heart and seem genuine, far more than external validation actions coming out of grandiosity

About the staff member: Already before I wrote this thread, I tried to ignore her; she saw through it and knew I was interested. She eventually proceeded to surround me while I was training, hoping I would chat her up. I ignored her, and now I am in a gym with a staff member who ignores and despises me.

I will never do the ignore thing ever again with women. It's BS.
If I would be again in a situation like this, I would actively, as soon as she positions herself near me, get the conversation started, but mention being "concentrated on myself" or "working a lot on xyz". There are 2 people needed for intimacy. If she would like to proceed regardless, and me acting congruently, she would eventually fall into a F+ or hook up arrangement with almost no investment on my part. If she changes her mind, I could walk around the gym with my head held high.
 

MtmVaott

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I received a rejection today. I wasn't and won't be able to evade the girl for the next months on a daily basis, and there was mutual high interest, chemistry,...
So I decided to take my shot at her.
Since I took the red pill, I was almost always rejected by a girl feeling disappointed or devalued by me.
Not so this time. She rejected me for whatever reason(s), but in the end, it was because she made the decision I am of no worth to her.
So obviously, as there was chemistry and attraction, I am hurt.

However, I feel alive and energized by it. It actually makes me smile.
It made me realize I am responsible to make my life fullfilled, including validating myself and respecting myself. To do that is far more beautiful than a woman can ever be. To be a bit kitchy: It's the love of my life.
 

MtmVaott

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Excellent posts about what to do with your daily life as a young man. (And Pook putting his preachings into context)
Posts with the best advice on this site how to socialize with women in general, both romantically and platonically (there is no line between the two). Also insight how applied self-validation will look like.

I'll do a post on fear of rejection myself when I see fit. I made enough connections.
 
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