How to get a programming/developer job without a degree

IKO69

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
572
Reaction score
298
Age
36
Location
Miami, FL
Currently majoring in Information Technology....I know some Python and SQL. Programming is definitely something great to learn...if you want to make a career out of it best to just go for that Comp Sci degree. Yes, you can learn languages without it but there is no substitute for the actual degree....and I do think as far as College goes Computer Science is one of the few degree's that are worthwhile in pursuing.
 
Read the 22 Rules for Massive Success with Women. Everything you need to know to become a huge success with women. And it's free!

switch7

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
558
Reaction score
269
Location
uk
Currently majoring in Information Technology....I know some Python and SQL. Programming is definitely something great to learn...if you want to make a career out of it best to just go for that Comp Sci degree. Yes, you can learn languages without it but there is no substitute for the actual degree....and I do think as far as College goes Computer Science is one of the few degree's that are worthwhile in pursuing.
Most employers interview self taught programmers over cs degrees though, so I don't get your logic here. Why get yourself into years of debt for no good reason?
 

IKO69

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
572
Reaction score
298
Age
36
Location
Miami, FL
Most employers interview self taught programmers over cs degrees though, so I don't get your logic here. Why get yourself into years of debt for no good reason?
Because they actually DO value the degree...a degree is a given now a day's. Pretty much anyone can go on like Udemy or something and pick a couple of different programming courses and learn the syntax, but this pales in comparison to the rigors of the average CS program - there are coding classes in addition to all the upper level math's and sciences which is where the value comes in. Go on any popular IT related forum and see what people say. A common complaint is having trouble finding a job because while they might have knowledge of some languages and picked up some certificates, they are shut out because they don't have the 4 year degree (they either don't have it or haven't completed it yet). It is true that at one time you didn't really need the degree and could get by on "know how" & certificates alone but that's not the case now when a degree is largely a prerequisite. Is it possible to do it without a degree? Yes, but we are talking about the exception rather than the rule here, that's not how it is going to work for most people. If someone has the aptitude I do not think it's a bad investment, it's not as if the person is studying like sociology - S.T.E.M. is what is demand and a CS major will be able to make more than enough to pay for their student loans. A friend of mine of mine is a software developer and he was making something like $70,000 right out of college. He moved on from the company he started but within five years I know he was making $100k, worked no more than 40 hours a week. So it's lucrative but you also have to really like and want to do programming - it's not for everybody.
 
Last edited:

Stephen89

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Messages
216
Reaction score
51
I'm not sure about the dynamics in the USA. However here in the UK, an employer would take projects over a degree.

My 2 cents are projects show you can actually do a job to a suitable level and you have the knowledge and skills.

Yes a Comp Sci is also valuable as it teaches you to do OOP, algorithms, web technologies, software engineering, maths, discrete maths in some case studies and also all which you can teach yourself.
 

switch7

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
558
Reaction score
269
Location
uk
Because they actually DO value the degree...a degree is a given now a day's. Pretty much anyone can go on like Udemy or something and pick a couple of different programming courses and learn the syntax, but this pales in comparison to the rigors of the average CS program - there are coding classes in addition to all the upper level math's and sciences which is where the value comes in. Go on any popular IT related forum and see what people say. A common complaint is having trouble finding a job because while they might have knowledge of some languages and picked up some certificates, they are shut out because they don't have the 4 year degree (they either don't have it or haven't completed it yet). It is true that at one time you didn't really need the degree and could get by on "know how" & certificates alone but that's not the case now when a degree is largely a prerequisite. Is it possible to do it without a degree? Yes, but we are talking about the exception rather than the rule here, that's not how it is going to work for most people. If someone has the aptitude I do not think it's a bad investment, it's not as if the person is studying like sociology - S.T.E.M. is what is demand and a CS major will be able to make more than enough to pay for their student loans. A friend of mine of mine is a software developer and he was making something like $70,000 right out of college. He moved on from the company he started but within five years I know he was making $100k, worked no more than 40 hours a week. So it's lucrative but you also have to really like and want to do programming - it's not for everybody.

In the UK you don't need a CS degree. Hardly any employer asks for them and some even state 'self taught only' because self taught shows people with a can do attitude instead of the likely spoon feeding from a cs degree.

If a CS degree is a prerequisite where you live then whats the industry going to do as demand grows bigger and bigger for programmers?
 
Last edited:
Read the 22 Rules for Massive Success with Women. Everything you need to know to become a huge success with women. And it's free!

DEEZEDBRAH

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 24, 2017
Messages
2,948
Reaction score
2,005
Age
29
An alternative route is night school. To do college and bridge to comp sci. Alternative bring to self learn, udemy, and a variety of means.

IMHO, gov edu is retarded outside STEM.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 24, 2017
Messages
2,948
Reaction score
2,005
Age
29
Thanks Snergy1!

I've been headhunted for a Python position which they build cyber security software (I'm still thinking about it) and I've also been headhunted for Java roles.

All they wanted to know if I was proficient in the programming language.

I agree, shoot for the entry level, lower paid positions if you have no commercial experience, listing your skills is paramount (PostegreSQL, Puppet, TDD etc).

Also for other people who are interested: you can use Treehouse's, Pluralsight, Udacity web development, software projects as your own projects in C#, Python and Java to put in your portfolio.
If I was a teen again, I likely would go that route as well. It has much less women in the workplace. And I only like my women's in the kitchen or ass up in the bedroom.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 24, 2017
Messages
2,948
Reaction score
2,005
Age
29
I ran into this same problem. The coursework is a good way to get the groundwork/ basics, but will not even come close to preparing you the way working on a project will. And even after doing a significant project (I built a large portion of an ecommerce platform on my own), you still need *experience* to get past that last hurdle.

We are in the same boat - I got a lower paying/ entry level job to get into the field. If you have any questions, let me know. They asked technical questions and I fielded them well. It IS possible being green and landing a job.

Good luck man.
Define lower paying job? Anything below middle income wouldn't be manageable.
 

marmel75

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
7,358
Reaction score
5,706
Guys i've been working through 'the odin project' and im half way through javascript 101.. Once ive finished that the next module is ruby 101...

My question is how much demand is there for 'ruby on rails' in the workplace? I'm seeing other online bootcamps like freecodecamp that take you through node.js etc which seems like a more employable skill to have regarding the back end side of development...

I found some interesting stats from stack overflow 2017 survey that kind of answer my own question however, however would be interested to hear what others think..

View attachment 1334


View attachment 1335
Ruby on rails is very limited...that has fallen by the wayside, at least where I am at.

Java and .NET Framework(C# and VB.net) are standard for Enterprise development. JavaScript with a popular framework(React, Vue, Angular JS/2/4/5/6), node JS and an associated DB(SQL, mySQL, Postgre, Oracle etc) are always in demand as well for front end development.

Python is good for scientific/data driven jobs as is R.

C and C++ are also still propular to some degree mostly for Legacy purposes and if you want to have the highest job security of all time learn COBOL and FORTRAN as a lot of the mainframes are still using it and all of the old timers who knew this are retiring and have nobody to replace them...you can make ridiculous money($100/hr in some cases) and have companies fighting over you.
 

jitenmazee89

New Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
Age
32
You can do certificate course of C++. Jave, Dot net and then work as a trainee for some months or a year. That will open the door for you in software industry.
 
Read the 22 Rules for Massive Success with Women. Everything you need to know to become a huge success with women. And it's free!

Stephen89

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Messages
216
Reaction score
51
I remember one guy on another forum created 2 blogs, a personal portfolio and a blackjack game and got himself a junior python developer job.

There's so many more examples on the internet, there is a guy called jeff who got a ruby on rails job after creating a few command line games.

There are others who got into ruby too.

Then there are treehouse students who got their jobs by doing some html, css, jquery projects from there.

So many examples on people without a degree who are self taught who got themselves a junior dev position.

You can find many examples on reddit, over the internet.
 

switch7

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
558
Reaction score
269
Location
uk
I remember one guy on another forum created 2 blogs, a personal portfolio and a blackjack game and got himself a junior python developer job.

There's so many more examples on the internet, there is a guy called jeff who got a ruby on rails job after creating a few command line games.

There are others who got into ruby too.

Then there are treehouse students who got their jobs by doing some html, css, jquery projects from there.

So many examples on people without a degree who are self taught who got themselves a junior dev position.

You can find many examples on reddit, over the internet.

Did you manage to find work yet? I just finished a back end in express and knex, currently figuring out react for the front end (making a news type website to go in my portfolio before I start applying for jobs)
 

Stephen89

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jan 24, 2016
Messages
216
Reaction score
51
Did you manage to find work yet? I just finished a back end in express and knex, currently figuring out react for the front end (making a news type website to go in my portfolio before I start applying for jobs)
I too created projects in web apps, websites and got myself interviews. Around 5 project per programming language.

I'm going into self employment doing programming work.
 

synergy1

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Messages
1,979
Reaction score
171
Location
New England
I suppose this warrants an update from my end. I was self-taught and created real projects I used - one was an e-commerce platform for a small business I helped start. When this passed, I started working on a double-sided marketplace platform. I actually just finished it minus a few bugs, full test coverage, etc. In my job, I am building out new features on our products and still learning a lot. It can be overwhelming at times, so still have a ways to go. But my LinkedIn mailbox is full of messages, I can't even keep track of them. Not saying I would get all of them, but it's certainly a welcome change. My salary at my position is up a lot since I started..still earning less than when I was an engineer, but am closer, and its a bit more comfortable than it was starting out.

Stephan is electing to take a small project approach which seems to work. I personally thrive on full-featured projects because you learn all the edge cases, and round out a lot of skills. Point is, if you don't have the degree or experience, find something you want to work on.
 
Read the 22 Rules for Massive Success with Women. Everything you need to know to become a huge success with women. And it's free!

DEEZEDBRAH

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 24, 2017
Messages
2,948
Reaction score
2,005
Age
29
Currently majoring in Information Technology....I know some Python and SQL. Programming is definitely something great to learn...if you want to make a career out of it best to just go for that Comp Sci degree. Yes, you can learn languages without it but there is no substitute for the actual degree....and I do think as far as College goes Computer Science is one of the few degree's that are worthwhile in pursuing.
Agreed. Anything STEM.

I w8sh i was a natural. Anybody seof taught, putting together a portfolio, building their own apps and programs is a OG.

CS is one of the hardee degrees. Its beyond absurd to think someone is self learning better than the actual degrees but, i saw it many years ago.

There was a chick on sharks tank age 13 who self learned. Pitched yrs later.

The only ****ty thing I saw are guys on call 24/7 even if working remote.

I highly recommend anybody studying biz pickup as much coding as possible.
 

IKO69

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
572
Reaction score
298
Age
36
Location
Miami, FL
Agreed. Anything STEM.

I w8sh i was a natural. Anybody seof taught, putting together a portfolio, building their own apps and programs is a OG.

CS is one of the hardee degrees. Its beyond absurd to think someone is self learning better than the actual degrees but, i saw it many years ago.

There was a chick on sharks tank age 13 who self learned. Pitched yrs later.

The only ****ty thing I saw are guys on call 24/7 even if working remote.

I highly recommend anybody studying biz pickup as much coding as possible.
Yes, CS is hard but that is also why it pays so much. It's in demand. Anything worthwhile will never truly be easy. It's actually EASIER to suffer and get through the degree than it is to go the easy route and major in something else trust me. The people who major in the lesser subjects will not make as much and will have a much harder time finding jobs, nor will the job security be there.

It's never too late. I have a bachelors in Finance and did that for a few years before going back to school b/c I was dissatisfied and had no passion for what it was I was doing previously. Good luck to anyone considering this option.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 24, 2017
Messages
2,948
Reaction score
2,005
Age
29
Yes, CS is hard but that is also why it pays so much. It's in demand. Anything worthwhile will never truly be easy. It's actually EASIER to suffer and get through the degree than it is to go the easy route and major in something else trust me. The people who major in the lesser subjects will not make as much and will have a much harder time finding jobs, nor will the job security be there.

It's never too late. I have a bachelors in Finance and did that for a few years before going back to school b/c I was dissatisfied and had no passion for what it was I was doing previously. Good luck to anyone considering this option.
Nice Post. IMHO i don't think anything is beyond disruption. There's A.I. that will eventually out perform your best coder, doctir, surgeon etc in the future. We're fortunate to not be there just yet. I see healthcare and edu the next big disruption in our lifetime.

I think freelance and entrepreneurship is a good path to be on. CS with the opportunity to work remote is superb.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

Master Don Juan
Joined
Dec 24, 2017
Messages
2,948
Reaction score
2,005
Age
29
Also developing your own command line games, video games is also a good project idea.
I'm definitely not there. I did however build a game in high school many many moons ago. It was in visual basics and it was super basic. Impressive given the time restraint we had and what little to no coding training or experience. I do see self learning as the way to go going forward.
 
Top