Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

How to answer attention-seeking FB after giving her space?

GtarPlayr73

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
221
Reaction score
10
Location
MA
By now, some of you may well be familiar with the situation i am in, women-wise. I have this cute little 25 year-old FB, who is the daughter of my landlady. We all live in the same house, but I live in a studio apartment they partitioned-off from the rest of the house. The girl and i have been on-again and off-again since October. I came on to her and soon after, we started having sex, going out, and just hanging out watching TV and movies. Since then, it’s gone like this: she is “into me”. I get AFC. She goes cold. I stop focusing on her. She warms up. I go AFC and make her my only plate again. She goes cold. And cold is where things are now. I'm starting to look at more plates and am finally understanding that everything she does is not done out of genuine affection and desire, but is rather, designed to get and keep my attention, including sex. Since i stopped visiting her and stopped being so indulgent with her, she's gone completely off the radar. We talk cordially, but she no longer wants me, visits me, etc. Last sex: 3 weeks ago. Lately, she’s been out and about at night more often. I now think she might be sexing a male friend of hers, who she clicks with and laughs with much more than she does with me. There’s no comparison.

My question for you is: how do i answer her when she inevitably pulls her guilt-trip routine?

Where have you been?
You haven't come over lately.
Is anything wrong?

Because i'm the tenant, i need to handle this delicately. I can't say "because you're more interested in my attention than you are in me" or "because i realized you aren't into me.." or “because we haven’t had sex in weeks”, etc. So, i'm prepared to just exude nonchalance and say "Nothing's wrong. I'm just going with the flow and doing my thing. If you want to hang out, you know where to find me...". Casual and smooth. The most direct I might be would be to say “Things have gotten kinda stale lately and I thought we could use some space”.

See, this girl is all about me once I’ve denied her attention, or at least she puts on the act of being into me once again. She lays on the sex and visits and everything. But when she fizzles out and loses interest, I have to virtually cut her off. It takes her a few weeks to realize that I’m no longer focused on her and then she’s hot again. So frustrating because, she is amazingly cute, busty, beautiful, and charming. I’m confident in what I have prepared to say and, believe me, she WILL ask. She did it last time. She asked why I hadn’t visited and laid on a very subtle guilt trip, like I’m somehow being unfriendly and she’s been waiting and wondering. This girl is incredibly aloof and very proud, not to mention, sarcastic and cynical. The only way to get to her is to completely ignore her. It’s answering her questions effectively, after having been so AFC, that I’m concerned about.
 

joekerr31

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
3,396
Reaction score
111
Age
49
nothing like sarcastic and cynical women to brighten your day ;)

how do you answer her question? you don't. you brush it off.

her: "is anything wrong?"
you: "naw, everything is great. what have you been up to lately?"

- shrug it RIGHT off. NOTHING is EVER wrong with you ;) you love your life whether shes around or not!

her: where have you been?
you: what do you mean? i've been around as usual.

- she's asking 'why haven't you called me' (her ego needs to know). you play dumb and act very slightly confused by why she'd ask that in the first place. this will make her feel young and dumb (and soon you can add full of *** to that)

her: you haven't come over lately, how come?
you: shrug your shoulders but say nothing, then switch the topic "so what have you been up to?"

- she's trying to egg you in to a conversation wherein she's the judge of your behavior - shes trying to get you to justify your behavior (ie. making her the judge). don't bite. just shrug it off and don't even answer her. if you have to say something then jsut say "ahhh, who knows. so what have you been up to lately?"


in all scenarios just shrug off whatever her inquiry is and then change the topic. it will let her know that you are not to concerned about winner her favor over.

you aren't in a relationship with this chic and you owe her nothing. you two have a barter relationship - she likes attention you like sex and so you exchange the two. so as long as she's giving you sex, she'll get some attention. until then you aren't going to get in to any drawn out conversations that let her see how much she's in your head.
 

decades

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
34
Location
sf ca
hahh hahh hahh you said FB. No. She isn't an FB. She's close to or IS your oneitis. the problem is you LIVE with her and pay rent to Mommie. Dysfunctional. I would move and try to fix this F-up I got myself into.
 

GtarPlayr73

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
221
Reaction score
10
Location
MA
Great advice, joekerr31. Confirms my intuition. I've talked to her yesterday and today. We hadn't talked in days and then yesterday while out and about, i texted her a neg-hit ("busting her balls" as DD would say) and she bit. We had a great, competitive exchange going and it continued when i saw her in person. We actually started laughing hard and that has normally not happened, so stirring the pot. It continued today. I was teasing her today and she called me a smart ass! So the chemistry is better than it has been. I feel like i'm entering new territory with her.

Yes, i have had classic oneitus with her and whenever the oneitus wained, she got hotter for me. I WAS major AFC with her, but now am much more DJ, in that i'm not visiting her at all, teasing her, flirting more, etc. Still, once an AFC, always an AFC in the woman's mind??? She still calls me "doll" and "babe" and when we stood near each other yesterday, there was some noticeable sexual tension. I even thought she was going to kiss me...

Another consideration, though. My rental lease agreement is up at the beginning of next month. Her dad (who lives in FL) co-owns the house we live in. He's been putting pressure on her mom, saying he wants to sell the house. Over the past couple months, she and her mom have been prepping some apartments her father owns in a town 16 miles, 30 minutes away for rental. No one has yet moved in. Yesterday, the girl was talking about one of the apartments and she said, somewhat jokingly "you could always take it!". I just chuckled and the conversation moved on. Later, however, i got to thinking. Why would she say such a thing unless she really didn't WANT to have me continue with my current apartment (under the same roof as her and her mom)? Then today, she was harping on the next-door neighbors and she said "I want to move so bad". She also joked about how i could move into a nearby cottage community that she and i had talked about in the past, but always as a joke.

So there are 3 possible hints she dropped about me living somewhere else. Mind you, when she first told me that her dad wanted to sell the house, she assured me that it either would never happen or it would happen in the distant future, not right away.

We're obviously not serious, but i enjoy the girl and we have had some real good times together. I admire and appreciate her mom and vice versa. I love my current apartment and i enjoy visiting with her and her mom. Is my presence and the thing she and i have had going creating tension for her now? Does she want me out when the lease is up? Maybe the two of them are thinking, hey, if he moves out, there won't be any more tenant-seeing-the-landlady's-daughter tension/awkwardness and they can still see each other and it would be better for whatever thing he and she have going if he's not under the same roof. Seriously, if she and i weren't under the same roof, things would have been so different...separate dwellings, no wondering is she coming over? Does she want me to visit her? etc...It is a unique situation.

The thought of moving isn't welcome. I just moved in last year and i hate the process of moving. Again, i like where i'm at. However, it IS secluded from social spots (20 minutes drive from nearest cafes, pubs, bookstores). Anyway, I might be reading too much into her actions re: apartments, but i wanted to get your takes on it.
 
Last edited:

jophil28

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
5,224
Reaction score
276
Location
Gold Coast. Aust.
Read Joe Kerr's last para- read it over and over until it really sinks in.
In the 'ole days' we used to call this situation that you are in "infatuation".
That is the immediate precursor to "oneitis" - which you have..
She is toying with you and loving the feeling of power and control which your compliance gives her. She is playing "now you get my Pvssy, now you don't. "Her game is based on her addiction to attention, NOT affection for you .
 

jophil28

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
5,224
Reaction score
276
Location
Gold Coast. Aust.
You are in ALMOST the same depth of shyte` here as`if you were banging her Mom.
The reality is that you gonna have to vacate`to fix this mess.
 

joekerr31

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
3,396
Reaction score
111
Age
49
any given situation can always go one of two ways - good or bad.

the real question is what are the probabilities of each.

too many guys think 'could this end just like i want it to?' - the answer is always yes it can. but is it likely to?

will you win the lotto? its possible. but you don't live based on that.
if you get in a car crash will you walk away unharmed? its possible, but you dont go crash your car just because its possible.

this girl doesn't know what she wants beyond attention - and that makes her dangerous. she will lead you down one path, and then suddenly do a 180. nothing she says or does is rooted in a mature honest perspective. its all emotional based and therefore radically susceptible to change.

you need to STOP worrying about what she is thinking,w hat she wants, etc. and get control of your life.

at 33 you should be thinking about a lot of other things other than what some 25 year old chic is thinking. she should be the one worrying about whether she's acting mature enough to be with you - but instead you seem to be lowering yourself to 25 year old standards with neg hits and wishy washy concerns over what she is thinking.

figure out what you want then make it happen. be the prize in life. create a prize life. then women will do whatever they can to be a part of that.

right now you are getting used for attention and using her for sex. nothing wrong with that, but don't start trying make it more than it is. her words have no hidden meanings beyond create more attention giving behaviors from you.
 

KarmaSutra

Banned
Joined
Oct 13, 2005
Messages
4,834
Reaction score
143
Age
50
Location
Padron Reserve maduro in hand while finishing my b
You and I are the same age and you're worried about some girl and what her Mommie will do? Your mature, true life is just getting warmed up. What did Pinhead say? " We have such sights to show you." Well that's how us mature brothers feel.

You're thinking about this all wrong. Realize that this whacky broads biological clock is tick, ticking away and because you're close you're a ripe candidate. Broom this idiot quickly and with extreme prejudice.
 

GtarPlayr73

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
221
Reaction score
10
Location
MA
Do you ever read a post you wrote and wonder who IS this guy? I mean, you really don't recognize yourself sometimes. I do see now just how pathetic i have been in this situation and i am well aware of my age of 33 (34 in several days) and how immature i have behaved. I guess there's a narcissistic part of me that needed to know that this girl really is into me. That stubborn ego just has kept clinging for months to the desirable illusion, the wondrous fantasy, that this girl really does appreciate me, wants me, etc. No one could be that insincere, could they??? A lesson in naivete.

I am reminded that men feel validated through sex. She could not talk to me or visit me and i'd be fine, but knowing that she didn't desire me sexually was a blow to the ego. I didn't sweat such things before i got physical with her because...we weren't physical! But my ego kept wondering and wondering until i gave in.

I have wanted to believe that she could be mature, that she can be capable of intimacy. But you are right, joekerr31, she doesn't know what she wants. Her entire behavior is explained by looking at her relationship with her distant, alcoholic, good-for-nothing father. She has referred to him an a$$hole more times than i can count. She has said that love = social repression. How can anything be more clear than that she is incapable of even beginning to approach a mature relationship? The girl is bratty, emotionally-cold, aloof. She is sarcastic, cynical, and manipulative with her on-again off-again sexuality. She literally doesn't need men. I thought it was just me, but it's really all her. She is incapable of intimacy and trust with men. She is to be pitied, not admired. Her weapons are her looks and her charms which she uses so damned effectively to make you believe everything is good and to forget her blaring dysfunctions.

Your advice is correct. Just consider the difficulty in remaining uninvolved with a cute and charming girl in such an informal living arrangement. Such a situation, where her presence is pervasive, would pose a challenge to any man's focus and independence of mind. This is why i am reluctantly beginning to see the need to move out. I can't believe i'm even writing these words as i do love the apartment and location. I even love her and her mother...if we could be "just friends". I am filled with regret at not having the strength to abstain from getting involved with this girl. I held out for three months. But when they stroke your ego and commit acts of generosity...you start dwelling on the possibilities. I guess the truth is that i wanted her to validate me. I wanted to know she would sleep with me. That she wanted me. But, in the end, i was just the tenant and she was moved by her dysfunction, her need for the attention she never got from her father.

I have been a pathetic wuss, a shell of a man, under her thumb. Why would i continue to allow this? I see the challenge before me: to live my own great life and to have standards. This much i noticed last night: I only behave like an AFC around immature women. What does that say? I grew up more at ease around adults than my peers.

To stay in this living arrangement would be to remain in the presence of this girl and be reminded on a daily basis that she never wanted me for me, but just to use me for attention and exact a certain punishment on men in general for not being there for her???

On a practical level, would you agree that renting one of their other apartments would allow her to still have a hook into me or would i be seperated enough from her that things would be cool? If i moved out, would the occasional and cynical hookup be considered fair game? (Come to think of it, if she's not interested in laying me while we're under the same roof, why would she lay me after i moved out? Nevermind that she had sex with me just for attention/validation). If for some reason, they wanted to keep me as the tenant at my current apartment, the only way it might work was if i took her aside and told her that we would have to revert to a strictly business-related friendship. No sex, no touching, etc. Or would she not be able to handle a complete reversion (read: no more attention)? This apartment is ideal otherwise. $700 month INCLUDING utils, cable, and internet...
 
Last edited:

GtarPlayr73

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
221
Reaction score
10
Location
MA
Interpretations and communication

I want to add one more thing before we start finalizing our conclusions on the situation. She and i were friends for several months. The friendship became closer as she and her mom started inviting me over and i visited her on my own. In this informal and increasingly comfortable situation, i kissed her. Thus the relationship became physical. Sex followed a week later, but not right away. She did say that she wanted to evaluate the situation before we had sex. She did not jump right into sex; she weighed the situation first. So that strikes me as not very attention-getting behavior to me, unless she was just "trying not to look like a slut".

Now things were smooth sailing up until a very defined, very clear, very obvious moment. That moment was when she invited me to join her and her mother at one of our favorite restaurants one evening. The restaurant is practically across the street. I didn't want to go that evening, but took up her invitation to please her/not hurt her feelings. So i show up in an anti-social mood. She picks up on it. Now, since we first met, she had been busting my balls for being cheap and fussing over prices. She did it this night and that was a breaking point for me. I got pissed, didn't vocalize it, but immediately withdrew into myself. The vibes i was send out were obvious and she picked up on them. I wanted to just leave right then and there, but stayed in an effort to look "cool and mature". When i did decided to leave, i warmed up to her and touched her and she was warm back. Later that night, she visited me and attempted to be diplomatic. We kissed. She left.

Only AFTER THIS EPISODE were things noticably different. We no longer made out (an affectionate activity, in my book). Sex dropped off, etc. You know the rest of the story by now. She referred to this specific episode during later talks as being a key episode in coloring the relationship. She also said that maybe we needed space. I said maybe we would work better as friends. After several months, we finally went back to the restaurant where the episode happened. She has not invited me to go with her there again. She has gone to that restaurant many times since with a male friend, her mother, etc. Clearly, the place has negative associations in her mind with me. We did talk about my being cheap, etc and seemed to come to agreement, but i get the feeling that EMOTIONALLY, she still hasn't recovered from that situation.

OK. Not the most emotionally healthy and mature relationship, communication-wise. So, is she still "just using me" for attention in your opinion or is she actually disillusioned and guarded after the episode at the restaurant and subsequent talks? Please remember that she is someone who has not demonstrated emotional intimacy and she is not one to talk about the relationship. She never initiates talks about the relationship. Everything is left to guesswork, hence all of my fussing over where she stands.

I am writing this, not to find an AFC way out of re-locating, ending things with her, etc. I am writing this to underscore the possibility that miscommunication and unresolved issues could be affecting her ability to truly engage me as she did before. She wasn't always this ambiguous. We truly did have a great time pre-episode. I don't want to cut things off with her if she is really just being emotionally guarded and could open up with the proper communication. She doesn't think highly of love. She's jaded and cynical which are behaviors that point to inner woundedness. What i have been interpretting as using me and taking me for granted could just be her inability to trust me and open up to me. Maybe she just realized that we couldn't have the "light and fun" thing she wanted originally and is no longer seriously interested in a more involved "relationship". Maybe her withholding sex is not attention-getting, but, rather punishment for past sins that she just hasn't gotten over. I could talk to her about this, but one might consider that AFC behavior. Sorry for all the "maybe's" and "coulds". Such are the words of guesswork. Far better than guesswork is straight-up communication. I should just ask her what she wants.
 

decades

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 3, 2004
Messages
1,224
Reaction score
34
Location
sf ca
nothing happens because of One episode. Nothing. Quit over-thinking this. Quit being the GIRL. You are the GIRL in this relationship. Did you know that? Your last two posts prove that you have taken on the Female role in the relationship. The one who constantly worries about where things are and where things are headed. Dude you're not acting like a man in charge here. Quit this Phil Donahueish Alan Aldaish ruminating. Be a man.
 

Sinistar

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 15, 2005
Messages
550
Reaction score
31
OK. Not the most emotionally healthy and mature relationship, communication-wise. So, is she still "just using me" for attention in your opinion...
...YES, YES, YES!!!

...Dude, you are her Fvckbuddy - plain and simple. If's she's going to dinner with other "male friends" you can probably guess the rest. If her desire/interest level for you was truly cranked she'd be over every night thinking of new ways to give it up to you.

Anything less is a waste of your time and hers.

And clearly you have feelings for here based solely on the number of [and length of] your posts regarding her. If you didn't have feelings for her you could probably actually have a lot of fun with this. Yet you do have feelings.

In the short term, get busy, start dating others and get your mind off of her. The surest way to lure her back in for another romp or two is her seeing you bringing other HB's home (and staying over). And in the longer term, find a better place where you're the DJ in charge of your pad and conquests.
 

joekerr31

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
3,396
Reaction score
111
Age
49
my friend wants to give me a dog. so he said take it for a week to see how i like it. so the dog sh*ts on my face at night while I'm asleep, p*sses in my shoes and snaps at me all the time. i take the dog back to my buddy and he says 'oh, don't worry about that. he was abused as a pup. he doesn't really want to do those things, he's just got emotional baggage."

do i take the dog and somehow 'hope' that my love and attention cure him of this behavior?

F*CK NO!

the dog is broken. it needs to be retrained before someone can own it again. the only person that should take it as a pet would be someone that knows how to recondition abused animals - and that ain't me. 'love' is NOT enough for that dog - it needs to be fixed.

the fact that your girl is cynical, had a messed up father, can't communicate properly - WHATEVER - should have nothing to do with you being with her.

and let's call a spade a spade. you want this girl for three reasons:

1) you have the 'save a ho' mentality
2) your attracted to her and want to keep f*cking her
3) your too lazy / anxious to go out and get yourself another woman

it's really THAT simple. you keep thinking that she's using you, but if you were really honest with yourself youd see that you are also using her.

anyway, your posts are very well written and its obvious that you are an intelligent guy. but this isn't about intelligence, this is about controlling your emotions and the things that are driving you to let a 25 year old dysfunctional woman mess your head up so badly.
 

GtarPlayr73

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
221
Reaction score
10
Location
MA
Thanks to all of you for taking the time and energy to reply. It's moving that total strangers can care enough to read and respond. All i could think about on the drive home was oneitus, oneitus, oneitus! I've stuck to this issue because i hate to see "failures" and i've been in the life-long habit of being hard on myself when i should be hard on others. Persistent exaction, sinistar, and joekerr31, all three of you are right. I do feel like the girl. I'm starting to annoy myself with these long posts. I have had oneitus for this girl because i'm too lazy to meet other women. This is all Plate Theory 101. When i pursued other women, i stopped caring about this girl ("caring" = oneitus obsession). The more i notice the causes and effects of oneitus, the more fascinating it is to me. It's amazing how i can read other people's posts, know exactly what's happening, where they are going wrong, and what they should do and not have that same precision in appraising my own situation. It's like two different minds. One detached and the other emotionally attached. So yes, joekerr31, this is about getting these emotions under control and detaching like a DJ and taking the same steps i would advise anyone else to take.
 

joekerr31

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
3,396
Reaction score
111
Age
49
its easy to be objective about other people.

its harder when it comes to ourselves.

the reason? deep deep down every human being wants to connect with another human being. its our nature. every woman wants to find a man and every man wants to find a woman.

so when 60% of what we are looking for shows up, we tend to ignore that 40% is missing.

which is when we start to over analyze, try to change them, try to change ourselves, etc. - all in hopes of bumping that completeness factor up to 95% or so, at which point we can marry the girl and have kids etc.

so what you are going through is completely natural, and all guys here have gone through it. some of us though have come to realize that if the girl is just 60% of what you need, and 60% ain't enough, then that's that - it just ain't enough.

occasionally when a girl is say 85% of what you need, it might be worth while trying to both change enough to bump that compatibility up to 95%+. but when the compatibility is around 60%, even with a ton of effort odds are you will only get it up to about 75%, which ain't nearly good enough long term.

life can be cruel in this way. it starves you, then gives you a pizza box and right when you think 'YES I GET FILL MY FACE NOW", you open the box and all you find is one half eaten slice of pizza and a used condom and you're left standing there wondering 'what the f*ck?!!"
 

GtarPlayr73

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
221
Reaction score
10
Location
MA
Funny and true, joekerr. That's just how i felt with this girl. So promising - her smiles, her touches, her cute and bratty personality, staring into her eyes and glancing at her doll-like lips while she meticulously (and painfully) cleaned my face (i finally refused this as domineering), and yes, the occasional sex. And yet, i only ever got 60% from her. Where was the rest? That 40% was comprised of mystery, lack of affection, lack of caring, lack of MORE sex, lack of good convo, sarcasm, cynicism, and the emotional void, that cool nonchalant distance...all the wrong 40%. Just left me empty and confused. A complete enigma. Not enough indeed...
 

joekerr31

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
3,396
Reaction score
111
Age
49
there ya go.

youll be fine from here on in. you get what's going on. once you see what's happening its really hard to fool yourself and let it keep going on.

99% of the problems guys have that they bring here are resolved not so much by the advice specifically as it is by helping them understanding whats going on (ie. opening their eyes).

once their eyes are open they typically figure out how to handle the situation in the way that feel most right for them.
 

P.Lilly

New Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2006
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Very eloquent guy u are. By now u know what u need to do 'for' yourself & what u need to stop doing 'to' yourself, for this will continue only so long as u allow it to.
 

GtarPlayr73

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Jun 3, 2007
Messages
221
Reaction score
10
Location
MA
Well, she came over this evening after working out at the gym. I razzed her about being sweaty and smelly. That got a playful but paranoid reaction out of her. She was very friendly, asked how my week was going and so forth. I was friendly back, but cautious. She teasingly asked me what i was doing being all secretive in my place and asked if i was thinking things over. (I told you she would ask!). I replied in a nonchalant and slightly puzzled manner that i wasn't thinking things over that i was just doing my thing or something to that effect and the conversation moved on. She noted that my birthday was coming up, she remembered how old i will be, and then she told me to pick a place for her to take me out to on my birthday. I thanked her, implying my acceptance. (To be honest, i don't have anyone else to celebrate my birthday with, so her offer is welcome). I did kiss her several times on the cheek (after she laid back on my bed and rolled her leg over mine, which i interpreted as an open invitation. Was this a failure on my part or reasonable? Ah, but a man does what he wants and doesn't look back, true?). I did not feel out of control or lost, though. I felt measured. I knew what she was up to. She kinoed me several times. I rolled away from her and she drew near to me and kissed me and then she was on her way out to shower, etc. I jokingly told her to "get outta here" while she continued to protest that she didn't smell and kept sniffing her shirt. I think my overall manner was calm, non-reactive, and controlled. Of course, I felt like things were superficial and flirty as usual, not open communication. Not that i expected it to be different.

So i will accept her offer to take me out on my birthday. Can't fault her for that. The key thing for me is to continue to be aware of her patterns and motives and not encourage attention-seeking behavior which includes not expecting or attempting to initiate sex with her. Refrain from any move that gives her power. End the oneitus. This is about me focusing on myself, my scene, my agenda, and meeting new women.
 
Top