How Important Is A Muscular Body?

[bonesmahoney]

I feel like this too strictly categorizes face vs. body, the way we do with women. With men, it's more of a sum of the two -- although I agree, if we're comparing a very handsome guy with a dad bod, to a pug-nosed disaster ripped like a Men's Health cover model, you're right.

So, basically you agreed with everything I said.

However, unlike being 6'4, having a high 6-figure career and looking like a movie star, having a sexually appealing body is readily attainable to everyone here reading and posting on this forum, and it absolutely gives you an SMV boost-- I can't even imagine why, or how, anyone is going to argue with me on that.

Yeah, not so much. It requires being exceptionally careful about what, how often and when you eat and an extreme level of dedication to weight training.

Go to any gym, go to a 100 if you care to, and ask yourself how many of the men in the weight room have anything near a "sexually appealing body" to the ladies. It's going to be a low percentage.

Again, strength training is vital for your own health, but getting "the fitness cover look" is just about impossible naturally.

 

[jaymbrs]

Add in 20-30 min of cardio 5 days and nd limit your carb intake. You will get shredded in the next few months. You'll keep most of your muscles if your protein intake is high enough and you hit the muscles.

My problem is my diet and drinking. I'm at a comfortable state where I can still get women while living a life where I'm not enslaved to my eating habits and physique. I've learned some people are willing to sacrifice it all for their physiques. I'm not. Again, not knocking on anyone who does. Do you if that's your thing.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

My problem is my diet and drinking. I'm at a comfortable state where I can still get women while living a life where I'm not enslaved to my eating habits and physique. I've learned some people are willing to sacrifice it all for their physiques. I'm not. Again, not knocking on anyone who does. Do you if that's your thing.

Yep its a balance. You can get half of the gain by living and drinking like you do but adding in the cardio. Your drinking might become more managed by doing it only one or two days a week instead of 5 for example. Or 1 to 3 drinks tops vs 5 or 6 drinks.

 

[rjc149]

So, basically you agreed with everything I said.

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just pointing out the unrealistic black-and-white, 'either or' polarity in observable real-world situations.

Only a tiny minority of men are really handsome as to outclass any man with a better body -- provided they're also not insecure and vain, as man very handsome men tend to be. In 99.5% of real-life situations, having better body aesthetics can allow one to compete with someone who has better facial aesthetics. And, having better game can allow one to compete with someone who has better looks. Women aren't as looks-focused, generally speaking, so debating "who's more attractive, the handsome guy with the dad bod or the ripped ugly dude?" is really just a pointless "would you rather" question.

Yeah, not so much. It requires being exceptionally careful about what, how often and when you eat and an extreme level of dedication to weight training.

Go to any gym, go to a 100 if you care to, and ask yourself how many of the men in the weight room have anything near a "sexually appealing body" to the ladies. It's going to be a low percentage.

Again, strength training is vital for your own health, but getting "the fitness cover look" is just about impossible naturally.

Again, you're viewing this in polarity -- like you need to be on the cover of Men's Health with a shredded 8-pack to make any difference with women.

It really doesn't require extreme dedication or dietary care to add some appealing bulk and mass, or to trim down body fat. Just discipline and consistency over time. Yeah, anyone can do it. Anyone can make sure they go to the gym 4-5 days a week. Anyone can prepare healthy food on their stoves. People just don't want to. Most people have ready explanations and narratives as to why it's pointless or unnecessary, why they can't, why they shouldn't. "I don't have time to work out. I have an injury. I'm afraid of covid. My metabolism is slow so it wouldn't matter anyway" etc. etc. Just lame excuses. The simple explanation is: they don't want to work out, so they don't.

 

[bonesmahoney]

Naw man, it's not about false polarities or whatever it is you're ragging about.

It's just an acknowledgement of how picky women have become. As I said, I know a couple of guys who fit the op's profile to a t: same height, same build, averageish, maybe slightly above facial appearance, and they get absolutely nothing. They could, but they'd have to drop to 4's and below.

Their ideal girl is a 6, or something in that range. They know nothing else is available within our social circles. Meanwhile, a 6 chick in her 20's is quite literally a rock star.

Obviously some guys are dating. I can guarantee you a very large percentage are paying through their nose. Their girlfriends don't pay for sh-t. Sadly, most guys who can't pull based on looks are basically in prostitution type situations in everything but name. I'm not saying these guys are rich. I'm saying these guys are investing everything they can and then some into one chick. Examples:

1. ugly dude, but financially very well off. He bought a house in a very expensive city, and has a live in girlfriend. She does nothing, just lives there and is available for sex. She is a 7 or 8. He is, well, below average in appearance.

2. another ugly dude. Just slovenly. His girlfriend might be a 7. At least 3 points higher. He pays for expensive vacations, she pays nothing.

3. I know a lot of doctors who are older. Their wives stay in good shape for their age, but all are 40+. They live in rich neighborhoods, luxury cars, the whole bit. All they have to do is maintain their figures and not become fat.

When it comes to good looking girls, basically good looking guys (pretty boys, not jacked guys) are monopolizing almost all of the short term action, and wealthy men are monopolizing long term action.

The juiceheads tend to get obsessed with the gym, getting bigger, steroids, eating 9 meals a day, and don't give a sh-t about anything else.

 

[SirBigBell]

Naw man, it's not about false polarities or whatever it is you're ragging about.

It's just an acknowledgement of how picky women have become. As I said, I know a couple of guys who fit the op's profile to a t: same height, same build, averageish, maybe slightly above facial appearance, and they get absolutely nothing. They could, but they'd have to drop to 4's and below.

Their ideal girl is a 6, or something in that range. They know nothing else is available within our social circles. Meanwhile, a 6 chick in her 20's is quite literally a rock star.

Obviously some guys are dating. I can guarantee you a very large percentage are paying through their nose. Their girlfriends don't pay for sh-t. Sadly, most guys who can't pull based on looks are basically in prostitution type situations in everything but name. I'm not saying these guys are rich. I'm saying these guys are investing everything they can and then some into one chick. Examples:

1. ugly dude, but financially very well off. He bought a house in a very expensive city, and has a live in girlfriend. She does nothing, just lives there and is available for sex. She is a 7 or 8. He is, well, below average in appearance.

2. another ugly dude. Just slovenly. His girlfriend might be a 7. At least 3 points higher. He pays for expensive vacations, she pays nothing.

3. I know a lot of doctors who are older. Their wives stay in good shape for their age, but all are 40+. They live in rich neighborhoods, luxury cars, the whole bit. All they have to do is maintain their figures and not become fat.

When it comes to good looking girls, basically good looking guys (pretty boys, not jacked guys) are monopolizing almost all of the short term action, and wealthy men are monopolizing long term action.

The juiceheads tend to get obsessed with the gym, getting bigger, steroids, eating 9 meals a day, and don't give a sh-t about anything else.

Very well articulated and balanced.

 

[soulforge]

Naw man, it's not about false polarities or whatever it is you're ragging about.

It's just an acknowledgement of how picky women have become. As I said, I know a couple of guys who fit the op's profile to a t: same height, same build, averageish, maybe slightly above facial appearance, and they get absolutely nothing. They could, but they'd have to drop to 4's and below.

Their ideal girl is a 6, or something in that range. They know nothing else is available within our social circles. Meanwhile, a 6 chick in her 20's is quite literally a rock star.

Obviously some guys are dating. I can guarantee you a very large percentage are paying through their nose. Their girlfriends don't pay for sh-t. Sadly, most guys who can't pull based on looks are basically in prostitution type situations in everything but name. I'm not saying these guys are rich. I'm saying these guys are investing everything they can and then some into one chick. Examples:

1. ugly dude, but financially very well off. He bought a house in a very expensive city, and has a live in girlfriend. She does nothing, just lives there and is available for sex. She is a 7 or 8. He is, well, below average in appearance.

2. another ugly dude. Just slovenly. His girlfriend might be a 7. At least 3 points higher. He pays for expensive vacations, she pays nothing.

3. I know a lot of doctors who are older. Their wives stay in good shape for their age, but all are 40+. They live in rich neighborhoods, luxury cars, the whole bit. All they have to do is maintain their figures and not become fat.

When it comes to good looking girls, basically good looking guys (pretty boys, not jacked guys) are monopolizing almost all of the short term action, and wealthy men are monopolizing long term action.

The juiceheads tend to get obsessed with the gym, getting bigger, steroids, eating 9 meals a day, and don't give a sh-t about anything else.

Your basing all this on a few people that you know or have heard of.. Too much of a small example to be using mate.

I can think or 5-6 different dudes, who do pretty well with the ladies.. Average in the looks department, however aesthetically good shape, muscular lean build.

The fact is, we have to make the best of what we have looks wise.

The dude who is a 6 looks & build wise, can easily jump to a 7 simply by losing weight & gaining lean muscle.. Once muscles have been attained, simply improve your wardrobe with some great outfits.

Do you realise how much better clothing looks on a muscular in good shape guy? That alone can earn you a point from the ladies.

From my own personal experience, all the training & healthy eating over the years has definitely improved my facial features, especially my jaw line.. My neck looks a little thicker too.

My skin is much better & not a wrinkle in sight at age 44..

Am I banging 9-10 all day long? Hell no..

Most of the girls I see now are 7 or 7.5 however many years ago, before I got in shape, I would only get the fatties lol

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just pointing out the unrealistic black-and-white, 'either or' polarity in observable real-world situations.

Only a tiny minority of men are really handsome as to outclass any man with a better body -- provided they're also not insecure and vain, as man very handsome men tend to be. In 99.5% of real-life situations, having better body aesthetics can allow one to compete with someone who has better facial aesthetics. And, having better game can allow one to compete with someone who has better looks. Women aren't as looks-focused, generally speaking, so debating "who's more attractive, the handsome guy with the dad bod or the ripped ugly dude?" is really just a pointless "would you rather" question.


Again, you're viewing this in polarity -- like you need to be on the cover of Men's Health with a shredded 8-pack to make any difference with women.

It really doesn't require extreme dedication or dietary care to add some appealing bulk and mass, or to trim down body fat. Just discipline and consistency over time. Yeah, anyone can do it. Anyone can make sure they go to the gym 4-5 days a week. Anyone can prepare healthy food on their stoves. People just don't want to. Most people have ready explanations and narratives as to why it's pointless or unnecessary, why they can't, why they shouldn't. "I don't have time to work out. I have an injury. I'm afraid of covid. My metabolism is slow so it wouldn't matter anyway" etc. etc. Just lame excuses. The simple explanation is: they don't want to work out, so they don't.

In the women realm a good face on a man is a icing on the cake. They care more about his social status, how he acts and how he dresses. A handsome face is not a make it or break it necessity.

 

[rjc149]

Naw man, it's not about false polarities or whatever it is you're ragging about.

It's just an acknowledgement of how picky women have become. As I said, I know a couple of guys who fit the op's profile to a t: same height, same build, averageish, maybe slightly above facial appearance, and they get absolutely nothing. They could, but they'd have to drop to 4's and below.

Their ideal girl is a 6, or something in that range. They know nothing else is available within our social circles. Meanwhile, a 6 chick in her 20's is quite literally a rock star.

Obviously some guys are dating. I can guarantee you a very large percentage are paying through their nose. Their girlfriends don't pay for sh-t. Sadly, most guys who can't pull based on looks are basically in prostitution type situations in everything but name. I'm not saying these guys are rich. I'm saying these guys are investing everything they can and then some into one chick. Examples:

1. ugly dude, but financially very well off. He bought a house in a very expensive city, and has a live in girlfriend. She does nothing, just lives there and is available for sex. She is a 7 or 8. He is, well, below average in appearance.

2. another ugly dude. Just slovenly. His girlfriend might be a 7. At least 3 points higher. He pays for expensive vacations, she pays nothing.

3. I know a lot of doctors who are older. Their wives stay in good shape for their age, but all are 40+. They live in rich neighborhoods, luxury cars, the whole bit. All they have to do is maintain their figures and not become fat.

When it comes to good looking girls, basically good looking guys (pretty boys, not jacked guys) are monopolizing almost all of the short term action, and wealthy men are monopolizing long term action.

The juiceheads tend to get obsessed with the gym, getting bigger, steroids, eating 9 meals a day, and don't give a sh-t about anything else.

Lol I’m clearly not the one ragging on here.

Again, you’re breaking this down into absolutes. “Pretty boys monopolize short term action. Jacked guys can only get the 4’s and 5’s. Ugly wealthy guys get nothing.”etc. Your argument is founded on observational generalizations that you have made. My observations and personal experiences contradict yours.

My point is that spending time in the gym and gaining some mass is going to help your appearance. I’m not saying you’re suddenly going to be swimming in pvssy. It’s pretty simple and universally accepted that some muscle is better than no muscle. But if you want to keep presenting your analysis as to why I’m wrong, please continue. Your theories are definitely entertaining.

 

[bonesmahoney]

My point is that spending time in the gym and gaining some mass is going to help your appearance. I’m not saying you’re suddenly going to be swimming in pvssy.

Compared to a fat guy, sure. I've said that already a million times.

Your basing all this on a few people that you know or have heard of.. Too much of a small example to be using mate.

I can think or 5-6 different dudes, who do pretty well with the ladies.. Average in the looks department, however aesthetically good shape, muscular lean build.

From my own personal experience, all the training & healthy eating over the years has definitely improved my facial features, especially my jaw line.. My neck looks a little thicker too.

My skin is much better & not a wrinkle in sight at age 44..

Am I banging 9-10 all day long? Hell no..

Most of the girls I see now are 7 or 7.5 however many years ago, before I got in shape, I would only get the fatties lol

So, you discount a few examples of others but your anecdotal evidence is somehow superior. Lifting weights apparently hasn't helped you with math lol.

Earning a point isn't moving the needle much if you're like the majority in the 4 to 6 range. Dating surveys show women prefer 8's and above.

And again, who are the guys who ARE hooking up with and marrying the 9 to 10's? I already gave the answers to that question.

 

[rjc149]

Dating surveys show women prefer 8's and above.

Whoa wait a sec— you trying to say that women prefer more physically attractive men over less physically attractive men?

 

[Jor-El]

It really doesn't require extreme dedication or dietary care to add some appealing bulk and mass, or to trim down body fat. Just discipline and consistency over time. Yeah, anyone can do it. Anyone can make sure they go to the gym 4-5 days a week. Anyone can prepare healthy food on their stoves. People just don't want to. Most people have ready explanations and narratives as to why it's pointless or unnecessary, why they can't, why they shouldn't. "I don't have time to work out. I have an injury. I'm afraid of covid. My metabolism is slow so it wouldn't matter anyway" etc. etc. Just lame excuses. The simple explanation is: they don't want to work out, so they don't.

Very true indeed. What kills most people is excuses

 

[soulforge]

Compared to a fat guy, sure. I've said that already a million times.



So, you discount a few examples of others but your anecdotal evidence is somehow superior. Lifting weights apparently hasn't helped you with math lol.

Earning a point isn't moving the needle much if you're like the majority in the 4 to 6 range. Dating surveys show women prefer 8's and above.

And again, who are the guys who ARE hooking up with and marrying the 9 to 10's? I already gave the answers to that question.

Anecdotal? I'm guessing your a dude who doesn't lift.

Training equals a boost of confidence.. Better improved physical appearance, the confidence & physical appearance combined will give you that little edge.

Dude pulls 5's.. Well he has a better chance with a 6 now..

Dude usually pulls 6's.. Well he had a better chance than before with a 7 now.

He isn't pulling 10's.. But in his world, his chances of getting laid have much improved.. The 7 may aswell be a fukin 10 to him.

It's so basic man, even a monkey could understand this.. Yet you are struggling to grasp this concept.. Hmm I wonder why

Oh I forgot.. you know 2-3 Bros who workout & they aren't getting laid.. So off course you must be right.

Nevermind the FACT that the vast MAJORITY of people posting on here are testifying first hand, that since they started working out & getting in shape, there dating life has much improved.. That is evidence enough!

But Yeh.. 2 of yours Bros are not getting laid. Case closed.

 

[bonesmahoney]

Anecdotal? I'm guessing your a dude who doesn't lift.

Training equals a boost of confidence.. Better improved physical appearance, the confidence & physical appearance combined will give you that little edge.

Dude pulls 5's.. Well he has a better chance with a 6 now..

Dude usually pulls 6's.. Well had a better chance than before with a 7 now.

No he isn't pulling 10's.. But in his world, his chances of getting laid have much improved.

It's so basica man, even a monkey could understand this.. Yet you are struggling to grasp this concept.. Hmm I wonder why

Oh I forgot.. you know 2-3 Bros who workout & they aren't getting laid.. So off course you must be right.

Nevermind the FACT that the vast MAJORITY of people posting on here are testifying first hand, that since they started working out & getting in shape, there dating life has much improved.. That is evidence enough!

But Yeh.. 2 of yours Bros are not getting laid.

lol, such a fragile, girlie little ego.

 

[soulforge]

lol, such a fragile, girlie little ego.

Boohoo let's call posters girlies.. That will teach him.. Are you 12 years old lol

 

[nicksaiz65]

Add in 20-30 min of cardio 5 days and nd limit your carb intake. You will get shredded in the next few months. You'll keep most of your muscles if your protein intake is high enough and you hit the muscles.

Yup. I realize that most people say diet is everything... but when I added in more cardio it made hitting that caloric deficit sooooo much easier. It’s one of the keys to getting shredded IMO. Along with intermittent fasting.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Yep its a balance. You can get half of the gain by living and drinking like you do but adding in the cardio. Your drinking might become more managed by doing it only one or two days a week instead of 5 for example. Or 1 to 3 drinks tops vs 5 or 6 drinks.

What do you mean by half the gain?

 

[captain55]

Been 225 8% bf when I was juicing hard. I get more now at 205. Im almost 6’0

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Yup. I realize that most people say diet is everything... but when I added in more cardio it made hitting that caloric deficit sooooo much easier. It’s one of the keys to getting shredded IMO. Along with intermittent fasting.

How's your progress currently? How much down overall?

 

[mrgoodstuff]

What do you mean by half the gain?

Half the gain meaning instead of 7% coming from 15% instead 10%.