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How does one trust again?

Craig Dates

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Been through a variety of short and long term relationships. You'd be amazed how many times, I've heard I think I am falling for you. Or, I think you are the one. Or, I've finally found you. Ohh, my favorite is I'll always be with you/behind you 100%. Then, they do something really bad or cut thinks off out of no where. How does one trust a person in a relationship again? I find myself unable to trust fully at all, and I keep them at arms length.
 

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Black Widow Void

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Sexist as my observation may appear, I that think there's enough female behavior proof to validate this claim.
Women base a lot of their thoughts, beliefs etc.. upon feelings. And feelings can be fleeting.
In fairness, I think that in most cases, they actually believe what they are saying, but keep in mind that they (women) are more prone to live in the moment.

How can you reestablish trust in women? The best remedy that I've come up with is to always believe in their actions over their words.

This is also equally important.
If you notice a pattern... then it might be a good idea to take some personal stock. In any relationship, no one is without their fault. After becoming comfortable in a relationship, are you doing anything differently? If you are encountering more than the usual bad behavior, then you might be subconsciously doing something that prompts these situations.
 

Craig Dates

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I try to go by actions not words on the last three women I've dated. The first one who said, I'd never leave you, and I trusted dearly was my ex-wife. She was distant and we just weren't getting along at all. She'd say one thing to me, and something else completely to others. She then struck me a few times and I just called it quits. Had her removed from my apt and a restraining order placed; filed for divorce; that was four years ago.

Next one didn't count, and she was just the rebound, so I left her as soon as she acted badly. The one after that, I will be honest, I had strong feelings for. After a couple of months, she grabbed my hands and said I finally found what I was looking for. You're all that I've wanted. We planned a trip, she introduced me to her family a few times, etc. I thought it was time to tell her that my family had a white collar criminal past (not me, but I was named mistakenly by the reporter once), she said okay. The next week, she came over and she said she read about all it on Google. She was cold and a bit distant. A few days later I didn't hear from her so I reached out, she said she couldn't talk and was with a friend. I said, okay. She then said, via text, I am not what she was looking for, I said okay. I reached out the next day to tell her I missed her, she said the same. She then said let's catch up in two weeks so I can get my thoughts together. I said, that's not cool with me, nor fair for me to be just hanging around. Have a nice life. She said the same and then again, I really will miss you so much. This hurt like getting hit by a train.

One after that, I jumped the gun way too quick. This was the one who said she was falling for me. We had an slight argument on a really large food/drink bill that she invited me to. I said I had a beer, I am not paying for all those other charges. She ultimately paid, plus tip and she stormed off. I asked are we done? She said I don't know, I said okay. She tried calling the next morning a few times, I refused to talk and said last night was messed up the way you acted, so we're not going to work out. She said, shame you are going to let a little money thing ruin something, but okay.

One after that was a knock out, and we had a lot in common. Always had a great time together. Never really asked for anything, and was contacting me constantly. She's said she loved me and wanted to be exclusive. She did want me to pay for everything, so that was a huge sticking point with me. I mean she never carried any money with her and automatically expect me to pay for everything. Since I limited most things to my place, it wasn't that big of a deal. She then went away for a week against my wishes to see an old friend. She came back and apologized, since I was still pissed at myself from the screw up with the last one, I let her back in to my life. Three weeks later she told me she still wants to see me, but doesn't want to be exclusive any more. I said, okay, that's fine, have a good life. She then tried to change things around, like can I still see you, etc. I said no. She also reached out to me a few times after that, I've ignored her.

The current one also said she loves me and amazed that she found me in her life. She's said she's blessed to have me in her life. She takes me out, as I do with her, and she gets me a ton of crazy gifts. On Christmas, she had bags for me. I got her a few things too, but she out spent me by a lot. I've told her I do not need these things, but she refuses to stop buying me stuff. She makes a lot of money, and I've not been with a woman who consistently buys me these things. I feel bad about that. It's not that I do not like her, I do, but I just am afraid to trust again and let someone in completely. I've left out a few that were just short and flings. I also didn't want my post to be too long.
 
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syche871

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Been through a variety of short and long term relationships. You'd be amazed how many times, I've heard I think I am falling for you. Or, I think you are the one. Or, I've finally found you. Ohh, my favorite is I'll always be with you/behind you 100%. Then, they do something really bad or cut thinks off out of no where. How does one trust a person in a relationship again? I find myself unable to trust fully at all, and I keep them at arms length.
you don't. You only have yourself and your balls in this world.
 
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mrgoodstuff

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Been through a variety of short and long term relationships. You'd be amazed how many times, I've heard I think I am falling for you. Or, I think you are the one. Or, I've finally found you. Ohh, my favorite is I'll always be with you/behind you 100%. Then, they do something really bad or cut thinks off out of no where. How does one trust a person in a relationship again? I find myself unable to trust fully at all, and I keep them at arms length.
Your coming to a conclusion that you think they are just fond of saying what you may NEED to hear... To gain your trust so they can get in closer?
 

diogenes84

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I try to go by actions not words on the last three women I've dated. ...
my gut feeling after reading your post is: you are creating a lot of drama. For example: Even if your first reaction is to not answer the phone its kind of childish to do so in the long run unless you REALLY dont want anymore of her. Complaining to her about things not being fair etc. just gives the impression of being needy and basically giving her the frame already then bitching about it.

I also have been cheated on in the past (like most of us probably, knowing or not) and I can understand your inability to fully trust. Yet jealousy will always be conceived as insecurity and a major turn off.
even if you feel it: dont show it! you can never control a woman fully anway so if you can't trust then trying to control will definitely scare her away.

As harsh as this might sound it seems you haven't really swallowed the red pill yet...or maybe not digested it. I am also still coming to terms with it (esp. the long term implications despite spinning a few plates now)

@Black Widow Void made a few very good remarks already which I find very helpful and (sadly) true
 
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I think at some point of age (+30) and after some amount of experience with women, there's no trust to be given anymore. It may sound pessimistic, but you can limit your lack of trust to minimum only if she is mother of your children (children, not child) and much lower on SMV scale than you are.

The thing with DJ skills is that you can pick up women that are on par or slightly above your own SMV level but it doesn't mean that you have the staying power to keep them. Moreover this forum is full of guys that need to study female and male behaviour because they have some deficiency in these aspects (I'm definitely man that had to study than man that undestood it intuitively).

This often means that your experience with women will be somewhat lacking or you will see the short end of the stick/bad behaviour from them more often than not. Sometimes you will add your own piece of s.hitty behaviour to their poor behaviour that creates nowadays social dynamics. When I think about my experience, it mostly confirms what we all know already:

- my first woman cheated on her bf with me and wanted to monkey branch to me (he made a mistake of admitting to cheating on her to her) so I got three lessons in one
- one of the 'good-girls' that wanted to date me when I was in college tried to ruin my reputation behind my back when I told her I slept with another woman (funny thing is I found about it just recently)
- several girls threw their pussies to me quickly in order to capture me for their own purpose (I quickly evaded them after having sex with them)
- my borderline ex pretty much stalked me when I was in narcisstic mode and I fell for her easily, in spite of all ups and downs, she is the only woman I truly loved in romantic sense
- I've dated fashion journalist that was pretty much broken by hitting the wall and parting with alcohol and drugs, she was leftist as phuck
- I've dated 'good girl' from good family that was at peak of her game, really sexy, told me she loved me and I'm the best thing that ever happened to her, still left me in very cold manner (she knew she wanted to leave me before holidays we spent together but didn't want to make fuss out of planned holidays so pretended interest until we went back from the trip)
- I've slept with 30+ year old bombshell that pretty much used me as a bargain tool to force her alpha to beta-mode to marry her and give her offspring

So in spite of trying to understand woman and play them to phuck them, there's always some price to pay for the sex and interest - sometimes its money and your time, sometimes its a piece of your soul (I'd say it's the most valuable thing that's on the stake when you enter the relationship) and more often than not, they want to get back at you if they feel your disrespect or lack of attention so I'd say it's better to leave them alone/no contact as soon as you start to notice drop in interest level (just leave them alone, no other emergency solution to pull them in will help you).

Now I tend to think that love is reserved only for the person that will be with you for good and for bad - so it's more than less possible that man at my age that is single may never find a woman worthy of this feeling. I think mature man (30+) needs to accept this possibility and carry on with apex of his strenght used elsewhere, gaming woman but not really caring about them until they DESERVE to be cared about (which is after several months of dating, she needs to WORK to GAIN your interest and trust, otherwise it will not work).

Most of us like to forget that females reach PEAK of their GAME LEVEL when they are 26 or 27 - at this age they have seen it all, they have dating experience that may be well above dating experience of 40 year old average guy (seriously) so you may be still more romantic in terms of feelings than them - they are playing game with their as.s, boobs and smile since they are 14 or so. That's why if you want LOVE from them, you need to pick the fresh fruit from the tree, not try to bite an apple that was already bitten many times by other guys. So either eat it all at once or just bite it and pass it further with no remorse.

What is funny, women around my age (+/-35) may have less experience than young chicks (instagram/Tinder/facebook really speed up the process of co.ck-carouselling for women). Add dancing lessons and holidays flings. Once you are drinking coffee with 27 year old female, look deep into her eyes and tell me if you see any emotions. Most often than not, if she is attractive, you won't see the spark or the thrill. You are just another guy in the line. You are another plate.

When I think about my mistakes, there were many and I repeated them because I felt I'm inadequate more often than not - leading with money, bragging, lacking self-assurance, faking confidence, whining, losing frame too often etc. alpha women are for alpha men. I was just good at luring some of them to bed but did I really got what I wanted from life? I don't think so.

I can't say I was responsible for all misfortunes in my life, but I was responsible for some of them for sure.

I've managed to deal with most of my deficiencies at this point but I still need to work on myself.

Females are nature indicator of your own level of game - if you want top shelf prize in life, you need to work hard for it if you are not lucky (good looks, intellect and money), most guys have only some of those assets and their importance also tend to change in life (I see now that money/status start to be more important factor when I date than it was 5 or 6 ago, ex. women expect me to be more succesful when I am +30 than when I was +20).

For sure it's the best time for me to date (I was beta as phuck when I was 16-27) and I plan to capitalise on it, but I'm not looking for NAWALT anymore.

My father was ridiculously lucky guy (he was picked up by my 9/10 mother when he was 16) and he didn't taught me a thing about women because he didn't know a lot himself. He never knew how it is to be left by a woman that you love, what pickup really means, how it is to struggle to find valuable woman when you are 30+ guy. He was just lucky.

Some guys are lucky this way or another, some guys are not. That's all. Fairness has nothing to do with it. Concentrate your life and do what you need to do to make it better then take the best woman that will show her sumbissive side to you - nothing else you can do really if you are not a natural alpha.

Sure you can steal other guy's woman (I could do it several times in my life) but if you can do it, you are mostly not interested in it really unless she is really valuable gem (most of them are not).

"Go after your own purpose. Always" - single, or not.
 
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Augustus_McCrae

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Been through a variety of short and long term relationships. You'd be amazed how many times, I've heard I think I am falling for you. Or, I think you are the one. Or, I've finally found you. Ohh, my favorite is I'll always be with you/behind you 100%. Then, they do something really bad or cut thinks off out of no where. How does one trust a person in a relationship again? I find myself unable to trust fully at all, and I keep them at arms length.
You need to observe her actions over a long period of time. And I’m not talking months, I’m talking a couple of years.

-Augustus-
 

stringpuller

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Been through a variety of short and long term relationships. You'd be amazed how many times, I've heard I think I am falling for you. Or, I think you are the one. Or, I've finally found you. Ohh, my favorite is I'll always be with you/behind you 100%. Then, they do something really bad or cut thinks off out of no where. How does one trust a person in a relationship again? I find myself unable to trust fully at all, and I keep them at arms length.
Probably trust no one. I mean Jesus said it so it must be valid.
I think as your journey goes on you trust less but also it moves into a mind set of things come and then they go.
 
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Epic Days

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It’s important to understand the manipulative nature of a woman. It’s not evil unless you look at it through the eyes of a socially conditioned man. A man with his head full of tulips and cinnamon.

Many a woman has calmed the suspicious nature of a man’s instincts with those phrases. In the passion of ecstasy is one thing. But it’s still manipulative. It re-centers your mind on the new thought. This is the slight of hand of a master magician. To understand it, you can watch David Copperfield turn a one dollar bill into a 100 dollar bill.

Do you know how many men were told “I love you.” Just before she goes and has dirty sex with a secret lover? Does this mean that all “I love you’s” equate to this? No. Of course not. But an aware man can see/feel the difference. The important thing to be aware of, is that David Copperfield isn’t really turning a one dollar bill into a hundred dollar bill.

A woman can and will say those things to observe your reaction and adjust her approach accordingly. Is she being this evil, diabolical creature? Not at all. It’s that she doesn’t exist in the moralistic world of men. She doesn’t have real codes. She is following her drives and knows that she needs to hold men in place in idling mode. Her drive is to facilitate multiple men at different times.
 
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Craig Dates

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Your coming to a conclusion that you think they are just fond of saying what you may NEED to hear... To gain your trust so they can get in closer?
Certainly possible, but when each said it, I wasn't asking or looking for it. I never returned the saying back to them, as I hadn't gotten to feel like that to them 100%. I wasn't sure yet I guess.

my gut feeling after reading your post is: you are creating a lot of drama. For example: Even if your first reaction is to not answer the phone its kind of childish to do so in the long run unless you REALLY dont want anymore of her. Complaining to her about things not being fair etc. just gives the impression of being needy and basically giving her the frame already then bitching about it.

I also have been cheated on in the past (like most of us probably, knowing or not) and I can understand your inability to fully trust. Yet jealousy will always be conceived as insecurity and a major turn off.
even if you feel it: dont show it! you can never control a woman fully anway so if you can't trust then trying to control will definitely scare her away.

As harsh as this might sound it seems you haven't really swallowed the red pill yet...or maybe not digested it. I am also still coming to terms with it (esp. the long term implications despite spinning a few plates now)

@Black Widow Void made a few very good remarks already which I find very helpful and (sadly) true
Hardly. You are taking one situation out of proportion. To dig deeper in that one instance. We were dating for a few weeks, we'd come close to sex, but she'd then pull away. That night she came over in wearing something very sexy, but first said I want to get a drink. I said sure, let's go to so and so. Anyway, we went to this place, she ordered several drinks a a few apps; hardly touched anything aside from the drinks. The bill came and it was like 60 + bucks. I said you got this, I got the last one. She made a whole public scene about paying for dinners and drinks is a man's job, raising her voice and moving her hands all over the place. I stood my ground, but did offer to leave the tip. She said, no, you want me to pay for it, then I will. She paid for everything and we left. On the way back to my place she called her friend saying she's ending the night early with Craig and let's do something. I then asked, so you're leaving? She said I need time to think. To think about us? I said, okay, so we're over then? I don't know, maybe. We got back to my place, I went inside got her stuff, then before she left, she got me some holiday chocolate and gave it too me. I thought about it over night, and avoided her calls and texts as I was still pondering what to do. If she's going to react like this on a dinner bill, can you imagine what and how she'd react to other things? She was also playing games with sex, and I found her active profile on Match; one of my buddies sent it to me. So, I said too many red flags and I just texted to her, I do not think we're compatible.

No drama from my end, so your conclusion is incorrect.
 
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Epic Days

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Let me propose an idea. How many men here know that it’s impossible for a woman to love him even close to what he considers love?

If this be true...what would be the purpose of a woman saying “I love you”?
 

Craig Dates

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I think at some point of age (+30) and after some amount of experience with women, there's no trust to be given anymore. It may sound pessimistic, but you can limit your lack of trust to minimum only if she is mother of your children (children, not child) and much lower on SMV scale than you are.

The thing with DJ skills is that you can pick up women that are on par or slightly above your own SMV level but it doesn't mean that you have the staying power to keep them. Moreover this forum is full of guys that need to study female and male behaviour because they have some deficiency in these aspects (I'm definitely man that had to study than man that undestood it intuitively).

This often means that your experience with women will be somewhat lacking or you will see the short end of the stick/bad behaviour from them more often than not. Sometimes you will add your own piece of s.hitty behaviour to their poor behaviour that creates nowadays social dynamics. When I think about my experience, it mostly confirms what we all know already:

- my first woman cheated on her bf with me and wanted to monkey branch to me (he made a mistake of admitting to cheating on her to her) so I got three lessons in one
- one of the 'good-girls' that wanted to date me when I was in college tried to ruin my reputation behind my back when I told her I slept with another woman (funny thing is I found about it just recently)
- several girls threw their pussies to me quickly in order to capture me for their own purpose (I quickly evaded them after having sex with them)
- my borderline ex pretty much stalked me when I was in narcisstic mode and I fell for her easily, in spite of all ups and downs, she is the only woman I truly loved in romantic sense
- I've dated fashion journalist that was pretty much broken by hitting the wall and parting with alcohol and drugs, she was leftist as phuck
- I've dated 'good girl' from good family that was at peak of her game, really sexy, told me she loved me and I'm the best thing that ever happened to her, still left me in very cold manner (she knew she wanted to leave me before holidays we spent together but didn't want to make fuss out of planned holidays so pretended interest until we went back from the trip)
- I've slept with 30+ year old bombshell that pretty much used me as a bargain tool to force her alpha to beta-mode to marry her and give her offspring

So in spite of trying to understand woman and play them to phuck them, there's always some price to pay for the sex and interest - sometimes its money and your time, sometimes its a piece of your soul (I'd say it's the most valuable thing that's on the stake when you enter the relationship) and more often than not, they want to get back at you if they feel your disrespect or lack of attention so I'd say it's better to leave them alone/no contact as soon as you start to notice drop in interest level (just leave them alone, no other emergency solution to pull them in will help you).

Now I tend to think that love is reserved only for the person that will be with you for good and for bad - so it's more than less possible that man at my age that is single may never find a woman worthy of this feeling. I think mature man (30+) needs to accept this possibility and carry on with apex of his strenght used elsewhere, gaming woman but not really caring about them until they DESERVE to be cared about (which is after several months of dating, she needs to WORK to GAIN your interest and trust, otherwise it will not work).

Most of us like to forget that females reach PEAK of their GAME LEVEL when they are 26 or 27 - at this age they have seen it all, they have dating experience that may be well above dating experience of 40 year old average guy (seriously) so you may be still more romantic in terms of feelings than them - they are playing game with their as.s, boobs and smile since they are 14 or so. That's why if you want LOVE from them, you need to pick the fresh fruit from the tree, not try to bite an apple that was already bitten many times by other guys. So either eat it all at once or just bite it and pass it further with no remorse.

What is funny, women around my age (+/-35) may have less experience than young chicks (instagram/Tinder/facebook really speed up the process of co.ck-carouselling for women). Add dancing lessons and holidays flings. Once you are drinking coffee with 27 year old female, look deep into her eyes and tell me if you see any emotions. Most often than not, if she is attractive, you won't see the spark or the thrill. You are just another guy in the line. You are another plate.

When I think about my mistakes, there were many and I repeated them because I felt I'm inadequate more often than not - leading with money, bragging, lacking self-assurance, faking confidence, whining, losing frame too often etc. alpha women are for alpha men. I was just good at luring some of them to bed but did I really got what I wanted from life? I don't think so.

I can't say I was responsible for all misfortunes in my life, but I was responsible for some of them for sure.

I've managed to deal with most of my deficiencies at this point but I still need to work on myself.

Females are nature indicator of your own level of game - if you want top shelf prize in life, you need to work hard for it if you are not lucky (good looks, intellect and money), most guys have only some of those assets and their importance also tend to change in life (I see now that money/status start to be more important factor when I date than it was 5 or 6 ago, ex. women expect me to be more succesful when I am +30 than when I was +20).

For sure it's the best time for me to date (I was beta as phuck when I was 16-27) and I plan to capitalise on it, but I'm not looking for NAWALT anymore.

My father was ridiculously lucky guy (he was picked up by my 9/10 mother when he was 16) and he didn't taught me a thing about women because he didn't know a lot himself. He never knew how it is to be left by a woman that you love, what pickup really means, how it is to struggle to find valuable woman when you are 30+ guy. He was just lucky.

Some guys are lucky this way or another, some guys are not. That's all. Fairness has nothing to do with it. Concentrate your life and do what you need to do to make it better then take the best woman that will show her sumbissive side to you - nothing else you can do really if you are not a natural alpha.

Sure you can steal other guy's woman (I could do it several times in my life) but if you can do it, you are mostly not interested in it really unless she is really valuable gem (most of them are not).

"Go after your own purpose. Always" - single, or not.
I get what you are saying. I've looked into many eyes and see nothing there from the younger one's. It's like looking into the dark abyss sometimes. Seems like your dad is really lucky, mine was as well. I am convinced those types of woman are no longer on this earth. It's just hard to look forward in possibly forming something with a woman when you're always on guard, watching their actions, and ejecting them when they violate or disrespect you. I've been taking them as they come, and just seeing where things go. I do not really attempt to bond with any of them anymore. Example, I was dating a different woman for a couple of months. We had crazy sex throughout the night at her place, she then goes away with some friends; she says. I said, okay, enjoy. She comes back, comes to my place, said she had her period, and we couldn't do anything. She slept over, it was snowing outside, so I had no choice, and she wouldn't do anything. She even said stop when we were making out; which I thought was weird; she never said that before, nor had any other. She left the next morning. I received a call from her a few days later stating she likes me a lot, likes being with me, but doesn't think we she see each other again. I said no problem and that's a shame. Have a good life. Seems a lot of them just want new experiences and that's about it.
 

Craig Dates

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You need to observe her actions over a long period of time. And I’m not talking months, I’m talking a couple of years.

-Augustus-
True. That's how I found my ex-wife's true nature. After her physical altercation with me, she said what are you going to do? I am not leaving, you will never get rid of me. A couple weeks later I had the police remove her from my place. Total nut job. Just tired of always being on my toes.
 
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Craig Dates

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It’s important to understand the manipulative nature of a woman. It’s not evil unless you look at it through the eyes of a socially conditioned man. A man with his head full of tulips and cinnamon.

Many a woman has calmed the suspicious nature of a man’s instincts with those phrases. In the passion of ecstasy is one thing. But it’s still manipulative. It re-centers your mind on the new thought. This is the slight of hand of a master magician. To understand it, you can watch David Copperfield turn a one dollar bill into a 100 dollar bill.

Do you know how many men were told “I love you.” Just before she goes and has dirty sex with a secret lover? Does this mean that all “I love you’s” equate to this? No. Of course not. But an aware man can see/feel the difference. The important thing to be aware of, is that David Copperfield isn’t really turning a one dollar bill into a hundred dollar bill.

A woman can and will say those things to observe your reaction and adjust her approach accordingly. Is she being this evil, diabolical creature? Not at all. It’s that she doesn’t exist in the moralistic world of men. She doesn’t have real codes. She is following her drives and knows that she needs to hold men in place in idling mode. Her drive is to facilitate multiple men at different times.
Perhaps, but I've always been suspicious of people. Granted, when I first started dating I was much more naive, but I was still suspicious. Agreed on your statement of when a woman tells you I love you. That's why, in general, it is meaningless to me. The dating world is all upside down and inside out. Can't trust them.

Let me propose an idea. How many men here know that it’s impossible for a woman to love him even close to what he considers love?

If this be true...what would be the purpose of a woman saying “I love you”?
Agreed. I guess to give the guy a false belief of trust and loyalty?
 

Epic Days

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Agreed. I guess to give the guy a false belief of trust and loyalty?
Yes. More importantly it shifts your mind. A man’s mind is highly susceptible to female manipulations. She shifts it to the “hope” chamber of your mind.

This will then set up plausible deniability if you even think of getting out of the “hope” chamber.

In many ways it’s below her level of awareness. To her it’s just a normal part of life. She sells her sex in exchange for most anything. Even if it’s just someone she can go back to when she needs her feet warmed up and cuddled between sexual excursions.
 
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RickTheToad

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@Craig Dates trust, just up to a point. Reveal little things, not big things. But just remember, they will all test you and push the envelope. It's your decision when enough is enough.

Also remember, do not back down. You showed good resolve when you told the b itch who was acting crazy to walk. I would had her make it up to you by f ucking every which way, but that would had been my move. She obviously knew she did wrong; that's why she was blowing up your phone to make things right. So, yea, you were too fast on that one, but hey, we've all been there dude.

I will also say, it's always best to shoot first when something is not right than hold it to yourself. So, basically, you were caught in a catch-22. If you did pay for the dinner, then you'd be labelled a push-over, so you insisting that she pay was a good move. You just over did it a bit by nexting her for a little tiff. Do not allow them to press any of your buttons. Just let thinks pass. No emotions. That is what they are all looking for. Emotional responses, because that is how they act and react.
 

wifehunter

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Don't trust... verify.

Most of these hoes, won't pass the test.
 
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