How bad is the Testosterone crisis in men? The average 22 year old today has lower T levels than the average 67 year old had in the 1960s

[BackInTheGame78]

I have lots of questions on TRT and maybe this should be in a new thread later. If you don’t mind, I was curious…

1. How long did it take to feel results from the TRT?
2. What do you pay for something like this?
3. What are the downsides you’ve noticed on TRT?

1) Probably a few months or so when I noticed positive changes. Likely before then but that's when it kinda all clicked on my mind and I noticed things that were different lately.

2) Insurance covers it so basically a doctor's visit and then the monthly costs. T is relatively cheap, like under $50 a month, even without insurance I think, using something like GoodRx.

3) I have common side effects such as Polythecemia(aka, increase in red blood cells production) and I am a heavy aromatize meaning I need to take aromasin to keep my Estradiol levels in check.

For the Polythecemia, I donate blood every 8 weeks religiously to prevent any issues such as stroke, blood clots or heart attacks. If you have heard about these issues on TRT it's because people didn't pay attention to this part and never paid attention to their hematocrit levels and their blood became too thick and turned into sludge.

Donating blood regularly prevents this from happening and also has an added benefit of removing iron from the body, the only way men can do it.

Researchers now believe the difference in life expectancy between men and women is from women involuntarily donating blood for 40 or so years every month and removing iron from their body which causes oxidation.

 

[Stoic]

1) Probably a few months or so when I noticed positive changes. Likely before then but that's when it kinda all clicked on my mind and I noticed things that were different lately.

2) Insurance covers it so basically a doctor's visit and then the monthly costs. T is relatively cheap, like under $50 a month, even without insurance I think, using something like GoodRx.

3) I have common side effects such as Polythecemia(aka, increase in red blood cells production) and I am a heavy aromatize meaning I need to take aromasin to keep my Estradiol levels in check.

For the Polythecemia, I donate blood every 8 weeks religiously to prevent any issues such as stroke, blood clots or heart attacks. If you have heard about these issues on TRT it's because people didn't pay attention to this part and never paid attention to their hematocrit levels and their blood became too thick and turned into sludge.

Donating blood regularly prevents this from happening and also has an added benefit of removing iron from the body, the only way men can do it.

Researchers now believe the difference in life expectancy between men and women is from women involuntarily donating blood for 40 or so years every month and removing iron from their body which causes oxidation.

interesting. Thanks for sharing man. Appreciate the information. Seems like for you, the positives have vastly outweighed the negatives. And sounds like you’ve most been able to mitigate the risk of the negatives.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

interesting. Thanks for sharing man. Appreciate the information. Seems like for you, the positives have vastly outweighed the negatives. And sounds like you’ve most been able to mitigate the risk of the negatives.

Yeah, that's a pretty good summation.

Like anything, you just need to be aware of the potential risks and then be willing to deal with them if you decide to go down that path.

Also, those don't happen to everyone, I know a few people who have no issues with their hematocrit levels or estradiol. Basically depends on each individual as everyone responds differently.

 

[SW15]

The trends are that people are eating out more, especially fast foods, and are also eating diets high in processed foods. This basically means eating less fruits and vegetables, less healthy fats, etc.

This isn't good for testosterone. The keys to good testosterone are eating clean (no soy, no processed foods), no porn/no masturbation, regular sex, anaerobic exercise (weight lifting), and having a healthy weight.

You can go to any wal mart and see what people have in their grocery cart.

Walmart grocery shoppers in general are worse about consuming fruits and vegetables than other grocery store shoppers. I think you'd see more fruits and vegetables consumed among Kroger shoppers, Albertsons shoppers, Sprouts shoppers, and Whole Foods shoppers.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

This isn't good for testosterone. The keys to good testosterone are eating clean (no soy, no processed foods), no porn/no masturbation, regular sex, anaerobic exercise (weight lifting), and having a healthy weight.



Walmart grocery shoppers in general are worse about consuming fruits and vegetables than other grocery store shoppers. I think you'd see more fruits and vegetables consumed among Kroger shoppers, Albertsons shoppers, Sprouts shoppers, and Whole Foods shoppers.

There is absolutely no correlation with porn/jacking off and T levels long-term.

You also missed the absolute most important one, which is sleeping well which includes being on a sleep schedule and sleeping 7-8 hours per night.

#1 most important thing or you are literally making yourself climb Mount Everest to try and overcome this.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I didn’t realize this is such a crisis. Is low T really that common?

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

I also wonder what is the correct amount of colesterol that is needed to maximize testosterone production without harmin our health.

I'm a fan of butter btw

 

[SW15]

You also missed the absolute most important one, which is sleeping well which includes being on a sleep schedule and sleeping 7-8 hours per night.

#1 most important thing or you are literally making yourself climb Mount Everest to try and overcome this.

You're correct. I did miss that. Sleep is that important and I sleep 7-9 hours per night most nights.

 

[Obee1]

I have lots of questions on TRT and maybe this should be in a new thread later. If you don’t mind, I was curious…

1. How long did it take to feel results from the TRT?
2. What do you pay for something like this?
3. What are the downsides you’ve noticed on TRT?

To feel the results really depends on how low you are and to what degree your body regulates SHGB. The higher your SHGB the lower your free testosterone. Your free T is where a lot of the magic happens. On average you would start noticing increased T around day 4 in terms of energy, memory, and sleep. From an anabolic standpoint it really comes down to putting in the work at the gym and eating appropriately so it'll take a couple months to visually see the benefits. Understand this though, Dr's are bringing your levels to what is considered normal or where you should be. Not to be confused with the high amounts the mirror athletes use in the Mr. Olympia. These men and women have pharmacy bills of $10,000 a month. For a couple years of "Hell yeah," they spend the rest of their time in renal failure, congestive heart failure etc. Ronnie Coleman, Flex Wheeler anyone?

As far as cost it depends on the method. Most of the time it's not covered by insurance so your talking $200 for initial labs then $100 a month or so for injection plus more money if doc puts you on some peptides and something to keep estrogen in check. Pelleting runs about $800 every 5-6 months but the up side is not getting weekly or biweekly injections.

Most Dr's won't touch you if you have yet to father children. TRT will raise your testosterone but lower your sperm count. The other down side is that your body will almost always stop producing testosterone so you could have to keep doing it the rest of your life. Bodybuilders will cycle and then take drugs to kick there testicles back into gear. That said, if you aren't producing much anyway, then I guess its not a big concern. Your balls will just become ornamental. Albeit smaller ornaments as they will atrophy from not producing T. If I was younger and had low T, I would ask the doctor to put me on low dose Clomid to see if this raised my levels before going straight to T. Many guys have had great success with clomid. And there testicles don't shrink.

IMO, if you've had children and are done having them and you've done everything in your power to get healthy T levels to no avail, the rewards far outweigh the risk if you stay in the "normal" range. Low T has just as many health concerns as too high of T. I look at it like this, if you went to the eye doctor and you tested 20/100 (not optimal), you would want the Dr to prescribe eyewear to make your vision normal. The Dr and you have the same obligation if your T is 120. Society needs to get over the stigma. Women have been on estrogen for 30 years and nobody had a problem with that. The study Backinthegame78 put up shows there is a national health issue. It needs to be addressed. Too many couples walking in the mall where the man has the same pear shape as his woman. If you take your woman to a romcom and cry with her, you need to go get checked out.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

To feel the results really depends on how low you are and to what degree your body regulates SHGB. The higher your SHGB the lower your free testosterone. Your free T is where a lot of the magic happens. On average you would start noticing increased T around day 4 in terms of energy, memory, and sleep. From an anabolic standpoint it really comes down to putting in the work at the gym and eating appropriately so it'll take a couple months to visually see the benefits. Understand this though, Dr's are bringing your levels to what is considered normal or where you should be. Not to be confused with the high amounts the mirror athletes use in the Mr. Olympia. These men and women have pharmacy bills of $10,000 a month. For a couple years of "Hell yeah," they spend the rest of their time in renal failure, congestive heart failure etc. Ronnie Coleman, Flex Wheeler anyone?

As far as cost it depends on the method. Most of the time it's not covered by insurance so your talking $200 for initial labs then $100 a month or so for injection plus more money if doc puts you on some peptides and something to keep estrogen in check. Pelleting runs about $800 every 5-6 months but the up side is not getting weekly or biweekly injections.

Most Dr's won't touch you if you have yet to father children. TRT will raise your testosterone but lower your sperm count. The other down side is that your body will almost always stop producing testosterone so you could have to keep doing it the rest of your life. Bodybuilders will cycle and then take drugs to kick there testicles back into gear. That said, if you aren't producing much anyway, then I guess its not a big concern. Your balls will just become ornamental. Albeit smaller ornaments as they will atrophy from not producing T. If I was younger and had low T, I would ask the doctor to put me on low dose Clomid to see if this raised my levels before going straight to T. Many guys have had great success with clomid. And there testicles don't shrink.

IMO, if you've had children and are done having them and you've done everything in your power to get healthy T levels to no avail, the rewards far outweigh the risk if you stay in the "normal" range. Low T has just as many health concerns as too high of T. I look at it like this, if you went to the eye doctor and you tested 20/100 (not optimal), you would want the Dr to prescribe eyewear to make your vision normal. The Dr and you have the same obligation if your T is 120. Society needs to get over the stigma. Women have been on estrogen for 30 years and nobody had a problem with that. The study Backinthegame78 put up shows there is a national health issue. It needs to be addressed. Too many couples walking in the mall where the man has the same pear shape as his woman. If you take your woman to a romcom and cry with her, you need to go get checked out.

Bonus is after you are done with kids, TRT is one of the best male birth control methods there is...you will be shooting blanks.

 

[Xman]

This isn't good for testosterone. The keys to good testosterone are eating clean (no soy, no processed foods), no porn/no masturbation, regular sex, anaerobic exercise (weight lifting), and having a healthy weight.

This is the natural route I am on. No TRT for me.

 

[EyeBRollin]

I also wonder what is the correct amount of colesterol that is needed to maximize testosterone production without harmin our health.

I'm a fan of butter btw

Physiological ideal levels are 50-70 mg/dL for LDL. The current guidelines have “normal” as less than 100. Atherosclerosis stops progressing at a LDL level <70.

There is also no evidence that soy lowers testosterone, or that butter increases it. The best way to optimize testosterone naturally is sleep, exercise, diet, and stress reduction.

 

[Ricky]

Sleeping 7-8 hours a night and going to bed and waking up at the same time routinely is probably the biggest thing most guys can do. If you aren't sleeping properly you are destroying T levels.

Zinc, Vitamin D and Magnesium all have positive effects on T if you are low in them and many people are.

Refined sugars are a T killer and it happens almost immediately after eating them...lowers it by up to 25%

Lowering stress levels has a positive effect as well as cortisol blunts T release.

Didnt know this about sugar but good to know.

someone told me that long distance running is bad for testosterone levels. I do it for the mental health benefits but have been meaning to research it

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Didnt know this about sugar but good to know.

someone told me that long distance running is bad for testosterone levels. I do it for the mental health benefits but have been meaning to research it

Of course it is. It sends cortisol levels skyrocketing and burns through muscle.

Think about it. If you are running long distances, the most efficient way for the body is to make it lighter. A lighter body requires less energy and can move easier. It's less taxing on the joints as well.

The only way to do this is to lessen the amount of muscle a person has since the body prefers to keep fat in case times get tough and the body needs energy so it can live.

There was a metastudy done for 8 years at Stanford that followed a huge sample size of long distance runners, I think something like 10K over that period of time. They found that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM lost muscle and gained fat each year. So when they say long distance running makes you "skinny fat" that's why. You may look skinny but you are storing fat and burning muscle. Your hormonal profile almost guarantees it regardless of anything else.

Why do you think long distance runners look like concentration camp survivors versus sprinters who look jacked like bodybuilders?

Sprinting requires all out effort for short periods of time meaning the muscles need to be firing on all cylinders and require maximum output. That signals the body that it must keep it in peak condition and working order for the load placed on it.
Long distance running is just a repetitive motion for long times at a much slower pace.

Effectively it's the difference between a highly skilled worker versus a dude on an assembly line.

Your body doesn't care about your goals. It only cares about survival and that is why so many things end up being counterintuitive to what people THINK it should do versus what it actually does.

 

[Obee1]

Of course it is. It sends cortisol levels skyrocketing and burns through muscle.

Think about it. If you are running long distances, the most efficient way for the body is to make it lighter. A lighter body requires less energy and can move easier. It's less taxing on the joints as well.

The only way to do this is to lessen the amount of muscle a person has since the body prefers to keep fat in case times get tough and the body needs energy so it can live.

There was a metastudy done for 8 years at Stanford that followed a huge sample size of long distance runners, I think something like 10K over that period of time. They found that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM lost muscle and gained fat each year. So when they say long distance running makes you "skinny fat" that's why. You may look skinny but you are storing fat and burning muscle. Your hormonal profile almost guarantees it regardless of anything else.

Why do you think long distance runners look like concentration camp survivors versus sprinters who look jacked like bodybuilders?

Sprinting requires all out effort for short periods of time meaning the muscles need to be firing on all cylinders and require maximum output. That signals the body that it must keep it in peak condition and working order for the load placed on it.
Long distance running is just a repetitive motion for long times at a much slower pace.

Effectively it's the difference between a highly skilled worker versus a dude on an assembly line.

Your body doesn't care about your goals. It only cares about survival and that is why so many things end up being counterintuitive to what people THINK it should do versus what it actually does.

 

[Xman]

If boys are low on T it is probably a multifaceted set of reasons but one that comes to mind is the school system. I mean, school brainwashed people into hating themselves every which way.

Schools really do a number browbeating boys. Look how the younger guys here are “diversity” obsessed and social justice warriors. When I was that age, nobody gave a damn about diversity, and being a social justice warrior was a sure ticket to being disliked by practically everyone. Today the stuff is reversed where these dainty young boys go berserk about these “trigger warnings” and honestly, yeah women are right, it is hard to find a real man.

Schools twisted the boys into girly cry baby social justice nerds, and they made the girls masculine.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

If boys are low on T it is probably a multifaceted set of reasons but one that comes to mind is the school system. I mean, school brainwashed people into hating themselves every which way.

Schools really do a number browbeating boys. Look how the younger guys here are “diversity” obsessed and social justice warriors. When I was that age, nobody gave a damn about diversity, and being a social justice warrior was a sure ticket to being disliked by practically everyone. Today the stuff is reversed where these dainty young boys go berserk about these “trigger warnings” and honestly, yeah women are right, it is hard to find a real man.

Schools twisted the boys into girly cry baby social justice nerds, and they made the girls masculine.

That is a symptom not the cause.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Well, Stormie lasted 12 days...wonder what his new troll-handle will be...

 

[BackInTheGame78]

If you have normal levels of Vitamin D and you have to Supplement to keep them normal, then your Diet is 100% of the time ****. For everyone a normal level of Vitamin D can vary, for someone who would seen it as an Excess Amount of Vitamin D could be the Base line/ normal level for another one. Doctors don't know this + Everything can be met with the right Diet, if you need Supplements you are doing something wrong.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

It's sad you actually believe your nonsense.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

It's not sad, I even published a study about it + there are countless legitimate studies about it. Wherever you get your Information is probably funded by or biased. Wanna keep bs everyone here?

Yeah all thousands of them out there right?

Also, consider the largest organ in the body has specifically been designed to capture sunlight and then it into Vitamin D in the skin.

That doesn't make ANY sense to say that you should be getting it from food. Clearly your body is designed to capture it from sunlight. Obtaining it from diet would be a minor way to get additional that you might need.