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Fruitbat

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I’ve stuck some pounds on - 220lb and 6’2

Not all muscle. I’ve lifted a lot in my life, last 9 months but with some gaps due to operations. So not totally skinny but def fat. I have a big gut but my arms and shoulders you can see I work out, but probably 35% body fat.

I currently do 8 moves, 2 sets of 8-10 and all free weight compounds including squats and deads.

lifts are still increasing.

I do maybe 2 sessions light cardio.

Most of my effort is diet. No magic type of diet but count my cals. Eat a 800 cal deficit daily, losing 1.5 lb a week. I will slow the rate down as I get leaner. At this point it’s just about losing lb.

goal is about 180lb.

question is, I’ve always been advised lift heavy in a cut but don’t overdo it, recover well and concentrate on diet. Don’t do masses of cardio.

I feel like I could work harder and longer, but this may lead to too much CNS stress, fatigue and possibly reflex eating.

Am I right to just continue on this path - it’s not too challenging but I always make sure my lifts are moving up or I am slowly improving in some way.

or do I start doing some hardcore X fit, running long distance, brutal circuits? I have the willpower.

sometimes the answer might be to just keep walking on the path.

What’s your thoughts on my approach.
 

Murk

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Forget the cardio, do walking (10-20k steps), you need to give your all in the gym, if you're doing 10 reps when you can really do 17 then you're not training hard enough. You need to go hard when you work out, break those muscles down, bump up the protein if in a cut.
 

BackInTheGame78

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I’ve stuck some pounds on - 220lb and 6’2

Not all muscle. I’ve lifted a lot in my life, last 9 months but with some gaps due to operations. So not totally skinny but def fat. I have a big gut but my arms and shoulders you can see I work out, but probably 35% body fat.

I currently do 8 moves, 2 sets of 8-10 and all free weight compounds including squats and deads.

lifts are still increasing.

I do maybe 2 sessions light cardio.

Most of my effort is diet. No magic type of diet but count my cals. Eat a 800 cal deficit daily, losing 1.5 lb a week. I will slow the rate down as I get leaner. At this point it’s just about losing lb.

goal is about 180lb.

question is, I’ve always been advised lift heavy in a cut but don’t overdo it, recover well and concentrate on diet. Don’t do masses of cardio.

I feel like I could work harder and longer, but this may lead to too much CNS stress, fatigue and possibly reflex eating.

Am I right to just continue on this path - it’s not too challenging but I always make sure my lifts are moving up or I am slowly improving in some way.

or do I start doing some hardcore X fit, running long distance, brutal circuits? I have the willpower.

sometimes the answer might be to just keep walking on the path.

What’s your thoughts on my approach.
2 things.

1) I am not a fan of those type of huge calorie deficits for two reasons. Firstly, because without strategic refeeds you are killing your leptin levels which will slow your fat burning to a crawl. Secondly, because you will not be able to efficiently build muscle in that type of deficit, which will actually help you burn fat faster since it is metabolically active.

I would cut this down to no more than 500 and have some days when you lift legs and possibly back where you only cut it to 300.

2) Ditch the cardio sessions but add HIIT as a finisher after 2-3 workouts a week for 10 mins(90 seconds slow, 30 seconds sprint. Repeat x 5). This supercharges GH release after lifting and also sends the body into EPOC(Excess Post-Exercise Oxygen Consumption) which can burn calories while the body recovers for up to 48 hours.

Walking on other days is fine, and can help with weight loss as well. 2-3 miles is normally plenty.

Also make sure you are getting 8 hours of sleep at least and drinking plenty of water to stay hydrated.

EDIT:

Actually a 3rd thing...try reducing your rest periods between sets to no more than 30 seconds. This will help increase the overall intensity of the workout and provide a cardiovascular benefit as well as it should keep your heart rate elevated for the entire workout.
 
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Fruitbat

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2 things.

1) I am not a fan of those type of huge calorie deficits for two reasons. Firstly, because without strategic refeeds you are killing your leptin levels which will slow your fat burning to a crawl. Secondly, because you will not be able to efficiently build muscle in that type of deficit, which will actually help you burn fat faster since it is metabolically active.

I would cut this down to no more than 500 and have some days when you lift legs and possibly back where you only cut it to 300.

2) Ditch the cardio sessions but add HIIT as a finisher after 2-3 workouts a week for 10 mins(90 seconds slow, 30 seconds sprint. Repeat x 5). This supercharges GH release after lifting and also sends the body into EPOC(Excess Post-Exercise Oxygen Consumption) which can burn calories while the body recovers for up to 48 hours.

Walking on other days is fine, and can help with weight loss as well. 2-3 miles is normally plenty.

Also make sure you are getting 8 hours of sleep at least and drinking plenty of water to stay hydrated.

EDIT:

Actually a 3rd thing...try reducing your rest periods between sets to no more than 30 seconds. This will help increase the overall intensity of the workout and provide a cardiovascular benefit as well as it should keep your heart rate elevated for the entire workout.
I will try this. Currently it’s 3.30am here and I can’t sleep. Really hungry and I think I’m gonna have 5.5 hours sleep tonight.

What I don’t get is, if I cut 500 cals this cut is going to take forever. I want to get a lot of it off by July. I presume the reality is “suck it up” because it will be counter productive to cut that fast.

Or is CICO flawed and actually I’ll shed fat and improve BF composition better if I eat more and manage the hormonal side better? Is that what you’re saying?

500 Cala means in 15 weeks I’ll lose about 15 pounds which means my cut will be 38 weeks. I just don’t know how I’m going to cut for that period of time, it’s just such a long time. I wanted to get some real progress by the start of July but 500 cals means it won’t even be that noticeable.

it might be academic because this restriction is meaning im sat here in the middle of the night unable to sleep. I most certainly can’t keep this up for long, but I figured my body would get used to the 800 cal deficit at some point
 

BackInTheGame78

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I will try this. Currently it’s 3.30am here and I can’t sleep. Really hungry and I think I’m gonna have 5.5 hours sleep tonight.

What I don’t get is, if I cut 500 cals this cut is going to take forever. I want to get a lot of it off by July. I presume the reality is “suck it up” because it will be counter productive to cut that fast.

Or is CICO flawed and actually I’ll shed fat and improve BF composition better if I eat more and manage the hormonal side better? Is that what you’re saying?

500 Cala means in 15 weeks I’ll lose about 15 pounds which means my cut will be 38 weeks. I just don’t know how I’m going to cut for that period of time, it’s just such a long time. I wanted to get some real progress by the start of July but 500 cals means it won’t even be that noticeable.

it might be academic because this restriction is meaning im sat here in the middle of the night unable to sleep. I most certainly can’t keep this up for long, but I figured my body would get used to the 800 cal deficit at some point
It doesn't work like that, at least not in a linear fashion like you are thinking.

The body does not want to lose weight. Effectively your fat stores are your body's savings account for when the time comes that you need it(your body doesn't know we aren't in any danger of starving).

Let me ask you a question. Let's say you have $10,000 in the bank. Would you feel more comfortable spending some of that money when you know you have plenty of money coming in, or when you had expenses that exceeded your income and you had to take some money out to pay your bills every month?

You'd feel safer spending the money when you knew you had plenty of money coming in and want to hold onto to it as much as possible when you are having to use it every month to pay bills right? Your body is the same way. If it doesn't feel like it has enough calories coming it, it will try and hold onto fat as much as possible. It does this by lowering your leptin levels drastically. This is your body's fat burning thermometer. When you have low leptin levels it tells your body to hold onto fat. It will also eventually cause your thyroid levels to drop. This is the master hormone to control your metabolism.

This is where strategic refeeds and higher carbs come into play. Those reset Leptin levels and will rev your thyroid levels within 12 hours or so and your body feels safe to burn fat again. Within 5 days of being calorie restricted like you are doing, your leptin levels drops 50% or more. Continuing to be calorie restricted means your leptin levels continue to drop. Not good.

Calories are a tool to help but they are not the end all be all. In fact, did you know that depending on what state you eat your food the calorie count can be different? A stick of raw celery has 6 calories but when you cook it and eat it, it has 30 calories because some of the fibers and carbs it contains that cannot be processed when raw are broken down when it is cooked. There are a LOT of foods that are similar, so accurate calorie counts aren't actually "real", they are at best and imperfect guideline.

IMHO, when I was at my lowest weight I was literally a calorie burning furnace. No matter how much I ate I couldn't keep weight on. I probably was taking in somewhere between 5-6K calories a day if not more. I was extremely active, but the point is the same. Muscle building require calories, proper thyroid levels require calories...those will help your body increase it's metabolism which will burn more calories around the clock than your deficit eventually. Add into this higher GH levels and EPOC from the HIIT and you are creating more fat burning...you are using your hormones to accelerate fat burning and have the body willingly give up fat versus trying to rip the fat away from your body while it's holding on for dear life.

Do not be afraid of eating more if you are working out hard. There are a lot of people who can't understand why their weight loss stalls and they end up finding out once they start increasing their calorie intake, it picks back up again.
 
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Fruitbat

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It doesn't work like that, at least not in a linear fashion like you are thinking.

The body does not want to lose weight. Effectively your fat stores are your body's savings account for when the time comes that you need it(your body doesn't know we aren't in any danger of starving).

Let me ask you a question. Let's say you have $10,000 in the bank. Would you feel more comfortable spending some of that money when you know you have plenty of money coming in, or when you had expenses that exceeded your income and you had to take some money out to pay your bills every month?

You'd feel safer spending the money when you knew you had plenty of money coming in and want to hold onto to it as much as possible when you are having to use it every month to pay bills right? Your body is the same way. If it doesn't feel like it has enough calories coming it, it will try and hold onto fat as much as possible. It does this by lowering your leptin levels drastically. This is your body's fat burning thermometer. When you have low leptin levels it tells your body to hold onto fat. It will also eventually cause your thyroid levels to drop. This is the master hormone to control your metabolism.

This is where strategic refeeds and higher carbs come into play. Those reset Leptin levels and will rev your thyroid levels within 12 hours or so and your body feels safe to burn fat again. Within 5 days of being calorie restricted like you are doing, your leptin levels drops 50% or more. Continuing to be calorie restricted means your leptin levels continue to drop. Not good.

Calories are a tool to help but they are not the end all be all. In fact, did you know that depending on what state you eat your food the calorie count can be different? A stick of raw celery has 6 calories but when you cook it and eat it, it has 30 calories because some of the fibers and carbs it contains that cannot be processed when raw are broken down when it is cooked. There are a LOT of foods that are similar, so accurate calorie counts aren't actually "real", they are at best and imperfect guideline.

IMHO, when I was at my lowest weight I was literally a calorie burning furnace. No matter how much I ate I couldn't keep weight on. I probably was taking in somewhere between 5-6K calories a day if not more. I was extremely active, but the point is the same. Muscle building require calories, proper thyroid levels require calories...those will help your body increase it's metabolism which will burn more calories around the clock than your deficit eventually. Add into this higher GH levels and EPOC from the HIIT and you are creating more fat burning...you are using your hormones to accelerate fat burning and have the body willingly give up fat versus trying to rip the fat away from your body while it's holding on for dear life.

Do not be afraid of eating more if you are working out hard. There are a lot of people who can't understand why their weight loss stalls and they end up finding out once they start increasing their calorie intake, it picks back up again.
OK I have just put 250 on to my target cals so I’ll see how that goes. I’m in a bit of a state at this level. Got a bit despondent, can’t sleep and don’t really want to train. That can’t be good.

See, I heard this shyt before in some places and I just assumed it was fatties justifying their BS.

I will see how I go, deficit is now 550 so will see what this does for mood.

I’ve resisted refeed strategy as I don’t think I can be organised enough to find days where I eat just carbs, would rather have a simple plan which is the same every day.

even though my cut was 850 I still have odd days where I eat out and get to 2500-3000 maybe once a fortnight but even with this being the case, I’m still in bad shape with sleep and energy.
 

RazorRambo24

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First, its pertinent you understand the science of how fat is burned/caloric deficit/nutrition part..

If you got that down pat, it all comes down to CONSISTENCY and DISCIPLINE in your routines.
 

EyeBRollin

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First, its pertinent you understand the science of how fat is burned/caloric deficit/nutrition part..
People make it too complicated. Bottom line is to lose weight- increase activity level and try the following with diet:
-cut out calories from beverages (only do water, tea, black coffee)
-cut out added fats- this means eliminate or severely reduce butter/oil consumption
-cut out added sugar and refined carbs. Table sugar, high fructose corn syrup, desserts, packaged goods, white bread, white rice, and white pasta

With those three major guidelines, the pounds fly off.
 
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