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christie

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Where you cheating? Were you doing anything that warranted his concern. If not then shame on him. It takes awareness to not let your mind get the best of you. And that takes focusing on what she does rather then what she says. From a mans standpoint
technically yes I was because of replying to that guy that I learned here was called an orbiter.

But each time he emailed or texted I told my ex. But I get it now how very wrong all my actions were.

I have been struggling since my other ex died(who I fortunately did amends by accepting accountability, responsibility and offering my sorries) whether I should contact this ex to say my sorries and accept my accountability and responsibility.

But he was enthusiastic when I brought up the idea of no contact and I should stick to that.

One isn't supposed to do amends if it can injure the other person or yourself emotionally.

I am committed to selfimproving and I am quick to admit publicly now what I did wrong.
 

stringpuller

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technically yes I was because of replying to that guy that I learned here was called an orbiter.

But each time he emailed or texted I told my ex. But I get it now how very wrong all my actions were.

I have been struggling since my other ex died(who I fortunately did amends by accepting accountability, responsibility and offering my sorries) whether I should contact this ex to say my sorries and accept my accountability and responsibility.

But he was enthusiastic when I brought up the idea of no contact and I should stick to that.

One isn't supposed to do amends if it can injure the other person or yourself emotionally.

I am committed to selfimproving and I am quick to admit publicly now what I did wrong.
Well you are a girl and you will do girl things.
Your better off starting fresh with a new guy.

Dont ever root through the garbage once you take it to the curb. Its never worth it.
Im a guy so thats guy advice.

Why women even come here ill probably never understand.
In my mind you shoukd be doing girl things. Like baking sewing or having secs lol
 

christie

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technically yes I was because of replying to that guy that I learned here was called an orbiter.

But each time he emailed or texted I told my ex. But I get it now how very wrong all my actions were.

I have been struggling since my other ex died(who I fortunately did amends by accepting accountability, responsibility and offering my sorries) whether I should contact this ex to say my sorries and accept my accountability and responsibility.

But he was enthusiastic when I brought up the idea of no contact and I should stick to that.

One isn't supposed to do amends if it can injure the other person or yourself emotionally.

I am committed to selfimproving and I am quick to admit publicly now what I did wrong.
not going to get emotional, I am strong and stoic, but you want to know how good and strong a man that deceased ex was?

He simply said I didn't have to apologise, that he'll always love me and that I am doing good taking care of myself. So he forgave me for the worst things than just an orbiter in my early 20's when my drive was through the roof.(dated an ex before him same time as dating him in 1994 using whatever argument of the month as excuse. I'm sorry I did this. The opportunities presented themselves when that ex before him kept calling the family home and pursuing me still. Meet for coffee and one thing leads to another..... It was wrong and I'm sorry)
 

flowtheory

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@christie So when you were transparent with your ex that you just messaged a guy back who messaged you (why did you?) did he snooping through your phone damage your relationship or personal freedom and safety in some way?

Flow im not dissing you man there is a sliver of truth to this but this idea stated as such is saying that LTR doesn't need any maintenence and that i find to be false.
I definitely don't believe an LTR doesn't need maintenance. They do. Relationships need check-ups often. Real communication. And not being afraid to ask or answer questions. But there are levels to what is acceptable and certain boundaries.
 

christie

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@christie So when you were transparent with your ex that you just messaged a guy back who messaged you (why did you?) did he snooping through your phone damage your relationship or personal freedom and safety in some way?


I definitely don't believe an LTR doesn't need maintenance. They do. Relationships need check-ups often. Real communication. And not being afraid to ask or answer questions. But there are levels to what is acceptable and certain boundaries.
why did I? disappointed I wasn't attracted to him after intimacy and too lonely to call off the relationship. That's my best red pill answer currently. At the time, I didn't think I could be that honest by admitting desire wasn't there.

I was the first to boldly say I wasn't attracted to him 14 months later, I think it was Jan 25 or 26 and then by Feb 12 he told me same thing when no contact started.

To your second question, did it affect our relationship knowing he went through my phone? I brought it up zero times. But yes, I guess it did. But in a disappointing way.
Because I was already telling him every single thing about me. Too unusual to trust I guess. I probably came off as an autistic weirdo. No offense if autists are reading.


You see, this was the first relationship(sex included) I'd attempted since end of engagement decision end of 2013.
And since learning 12 steps of living a more honest and accountable life.
My number one character defect I learned in taking my inventory was dishonesty. Like even telling white lies when I didn't have to kind of rampant dishonesty.
I was determined to completely vomit and diarrhea every single honest truth about myself to this guy in the most uncalibrated way too, smh.
Leaving my phone unattended, not covering my password inputs whatever, just totally being natural and unabashedly honest was my goal.

He rewarded me with some pleasant memories and ultimately gifted me with teaching me the red pill for which I will be forever grateful.
My second character defect is disappointment in others and how I punish myself for making poor decisions but I'm working on that in tandem with the dishonesty thing like my life depends on it.

Flow, really only girls feel the need to keep things private because of their dualistic mating strategy. I'm a girl and self-aware with faults I know I need to change to gain a companion/partner ever again in my life and I'm interested in taking accountability.
Its a bit unusual for you to be so defensive about privacy if you're indeed a guy, because your woman would never pry anyways....since you're a dominant male and she's submissive and compliant, correct?
 
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flowtheory

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Great response for the parts that reveal your history. Have you ever read the book "Lying" by Sam Harris? It gives some interesting perspective on white lies and bigger ones. The things we delude ourselves with, and in-turn others just for the sake of "keeping peace". If we want to be truthful and fully seen, uncalibrated honesty can be difficult and dare I say destructive. It's a true skill to be clearly honest with tact. Keeping our harder truths still soft enough for our partner or selves to grow from. I've had my tangles with dishonesty too.

Flow, really only girls feel the need to keep things private because of their dualistic mating strategy. I'm a girl and self-aware with faults I know I need to change to gain a companion/partner ever again in my life and I'm interested in taking accountability.
Its a bit unusual for you to be so defensive about privacy if you're indeed a guy, because your woman would never pry anyways....since you're a dominant male and she's submissive and compliant, correct?
It really depends on the woman, how dominant she is too. Just because you're dominant to one female, doesn't mean you will be to another. It is a spectrum based on those two people's individual make-ups and social standings. I'm dominant, but next to Mike Tyson, or a skilled female attorney? I'm not. I'd probably get ripped up in both cases, depending on what we're doing or I would fall into their frame based on many factors of what I've done with my life and social accolades, IQ, and such.

And just because one can be a dominant male, doesn't mean a woman who is submissive won't get insecure and pry. Those aren't mutually exclusive. I've had very submissive women rifle through my phone, closet, memory boxes, etc. And it was very alarming and destructive to how I saw her and the emotional safety which was no longer intact for me. Her respect diminished in my eyes. And the reason she did that was solely to possess me. And that insecurity can damage an otherwise good relationship because of a matter of factors she personally deals with, like some you stated you did above. It's a form of recklessness.

I'm not defensive about privacy, I believe in it. Huge difference. I believe we each have our own independent and autonomous lives from our partners, which is sacred for me. Not everything that's mine needs to be divulged. Not because of shadiness, but for the respect of my own world apart from another. Anyone. I have to always recognize and honor myself first before engaging with another. I've been that crazy open person before and it left me feeling resentment toward myself. So experience has taught me boundaries, not because of dominance or something other which bolsters my ego. If I'm going to have a relationship with another, there needs to be uncompromised trust.

If both people have respect for the relationship and others, chances are they won't do anything to compromise that. People here can blast that all they want, but really we just subscribe to different views in relationships. One isn't wrong or right. It's just a different make-up based on personal experiences. Blue/Red Pill? Nah. It's apart from that. People use that argument to disable another view around here and to use a blanket idea to propel and buttress their view because they deem it right based on Rollo or A greater belief which many have subscribed to. I understand a fair amount of this stuff, but never will, fully, like anyone here, as there are too many nuances with each individual and some things need to be canceled out. Full red-pill theory can be deeply dogmatic, like any belief. Humans are too complex to boil down to number points and quick videos. Or do this or just do that. Doesn't work. And that's why arguments will always ensue.

So if a person needs to dig, dig, dig? That has little to do with me and more to do with her or him. So therefore it's not my job to enable her poor behavior and insecurities. Especially if I'm being open with my words, actions, and intents by showing up.
If a woman is being shifty with questions, pausing often, etc. She probably has something to hide. And in that case? It's probably not for me. But if you're tactful with questions and a great listener you will be able to get them to trip up, because lies (as you know) have a way of stabbing you from the inside.
 

stringpuller

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You guys emotionally writing paragraphs on this subject are like the women you chase lol jeezus just move on already.
Own your frame
 

christie

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Great response for the parts that reveal your history. Have you ever read the book "Lying" by Sam Harris? It gives some interesting perspective on white lies and bigger ones. The things we delude ourselves with, and in-turn others just for the sake of "keeping peace". If we want to be truthful and fully seen, uncalibrated honesty can be difficult and dare I say destructive. It's a true skill to be clearly honest with tact. Keeping our harder truths still soft enough for our partner or selves to grow from. I've had my tangles with dishonesty too.


It really depends on the woman, how dominant she is too. Just because you're dominant to one female, doesn't mean you will be to another. It is a spectrum based on those two people's individual make-ups and social standings. I'm dominant, but next to Mike Tyson, or a skilled female attorney? I'm not. I'd probably get ripped up in both cases, depending on what we're doing or I would fall into their frame based on many factors of what I've done with my life and social accolades, IQ, and such.

And just because one can be a dominant male, doesn't mean a woman who is submissive won't get insecure and pry. Those aren't mutually exclusive. I've had very submissive women rifle through my phone, closet, memory boxes, etc. And it was very alarming and destructive to how I saw her and the emotional safety which was no longer intact for me. Her respect diminished in my eyes. And the reason she did that was solely to possess me. And that insecurity can damage an otherwise good relationship because of a matter of factors she personally deals with, like some you stated you did above. It's a form of recklessness.

I'm not defensive about privacy, I believe in it. Huge difference. I believe we each have our own independent and autonomous lives from our partners, which is sacred for me. Not everything that's mine needs to be divulged. Not because of shadiness, but for the respect of my own world apart from another. Anyone. I have to always recognize and honor myself first before engaging with another. I've been that crazy open person before and it left me feeling resentment toward myself. So experience has taught me boundaries, not because of dominance or something other which bolsters my ego. If I'm going to have a relationship with another, there needs to be uncompromised trust.

If both people have respect for the relationship and others, chances are they won't do anything to compromise that. People here can blast that all they want, but really we just subscribe to different views in relationships. One isn't wrong or right. It's just a different make-up based on personal experiences. Blue/Red Pill? Nah. It's apart from that. People use that argument to disable another view around here and to use a blanket idea to propel and buttress their view because they deem it right based on Rollo or A greater belief which many have subscribed to. I understand a fair amount of this stuff, but never will, fully, like anyone here, as there are too many nuances with each individual and some things need to be canceled out. Full red-pill theory can be deeply dogmatic, like any belief. Humans are too complex to boil down to number points and quick videos. Or do this or just do that. Doesn't work. And that's why arguments will always ensue.

So if a person needs to dig, dig, dig? That has little to do with me and more to do with her or him. So therefore it's not my job to enable her poor behavior and insecurities. Especially if I'm being open with my words, actions, and intents by showing up.
If a woman is being shifty with questions, pausing often, etc. She probably has something to hide. And in that case? It's probably not for me. But if you're tactful with questions and a great listener you will be able to get them to trip up, because lies (as you know) have a way of stabbing you from the inside.
I have faith you can be more bull than the female attorneyAND Tyson combined.

Decide and you will achieve.

I will reread this again later when I stop driving.

Thanks for the book recommend. This is the first time I've thought of reading a book on lying/honesty. Thanks again.

Free Sirius radio in my vehicle for some reason so having a great drive!
 

flowtheory

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I have faith you can be more bull than the female attorneyAND Tyson combined.

Decide and you will achieve.
If we're in a group of people, chances are low due to social status and hierarchy; confidence, and competence in that social environment based on what we have both respectively achieved.

With the female attorney in bed? Sure. I could make her my little submissive kitten. But I'm sure she would destroy me in an argument around a group of people.
Tyson? maybe on some intellectual topics, but certainly not on a physical or social level. He just has to show up and he will be the most dominant.
 

Black Widow Void

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Here's an interesting observation:
Each page contains 20 postings. Then the next posting goes to the next page. So far, (including my current posting) we are up to 53 postings.

One forum member (and it's not the OP) has been yard-dogging this topic and occupies over 1/3 of all the postings within this topic. This sure seems a bit obsessive to me. His implications? It's that he's "Alpha" and if we do not share his opinion, then we are not. To the lurkers and other forum members, I'd say to consider the source.

Here's the "interesting observation" part:
In elementary school, there was an old common saying... "the one that smelt it, dealt it" (meaning that he may accuse others of letting one rip, but in actuality, it was him).

In High School, the student that was the most vocal about "hating phaggots" ... was usually the one that we later found out was actually gay.

They call this "projection behavior."

Getting to the point... I think it stands to reason that the 'chest-thumping' forum members are an adult version of the above examples. If they didn't pounce on new forum members (the most vulnerable) and/or 'yard-dog' other members that have different view points, I'd probably feel sorry for them.
 
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bcude

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I don't like this Darius dude either, but i had to watch the video and i see nothing wrong with what he said.
Note that it's a test and you're only looking at her reaction. We're not talking about digging through her phone every friday night after work like an insecure douchebag. If you think about it, only a person who has something to hide will be truly uncomfortable handing over their phone for 3 hours to someone they trust and love. It's not like it's even remotely interesting to root through messages if someone voluntarily agrees, only when you get resistance you feel the urge to start digging.

A person who has nothing to hide will have no problem to talk about their past either, but someone with skeletons in the closet will try to avoid, or say stuff like: "the past doesn't matter, i've changed now" (= i cheated, but i don't want you to judge me for that right now because i'm different).

I'm all for having your own identity and sense of self away from your partner, i'd argue it's mandatory for the health of any good relationship to avoid co-dependance but if you've agreed to be exclusive and she has a problem to hand over her phone in a simple 'challenge' like this, then she either has something to hide, or hasn't fully submitted to you (not living in your frame because she doesn't see you as her best option). Both are bad. Privacy will be a convenient socially accepted word to throw out to potentially keep doing things that compromise the relationship in today's dating climate.
The red pill and collective experience on forums like this one, has taught us that any woman who sees you as her best option will go out of her way to make sure she's not doing anything that might confuse you through words or actions, because she can't afford not to. She'll want to hand her phone over because she trusts you and is eager to show that. That's what Darius is getting at.
 

stringpuller

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Privacy will be a convenient socially accepted word to throw out to potentially keep doing things that compromise the relationship in today's dating climate.
Well said. The level that women will go through to shame a man while hiding her shytty behavior is quite astounding. The best thing we can do as men if confronted with such behavior is get out of it asap.
 

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