Going Dutch. Feedback is valued...

AJHook

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Greetings all!

I've been reading on this forum for a while now and recently decided to join. This is my first post and I'm going to dive right in:

I personally never, if only rarely, pay for the woman in the early goings. In some places, paying for the woman is the cultural expectation. In other regions, the individuals pays their own way. Where I live currently, in the Southeastern states, the man pays. Unsurprisingly, the best success I've had with women around here, were with women from other parts of the country/world. My question to you gentlemen is: If you believe it is your prerogative to pay only for yourself on first dates, how/when would you bring this up to your date? Could bringing it up before the date prevent a surprise on her part? In the south, depending on the girl( if she's a southern girl), doing so may obliterate your chances, period.

In regards to the issue of going dutch on dates, I'd like to share an anecdote.

I went out to a local night/dance club on a Saturday night where I met a HB9 and got her number. I honestly didn't expect it to go anywhere until she sent me a text the next morning stating: "so nice to meet you." Interesting...

I knew I had left some impact on her seeing as how she gave me her number, but really, we only chatted and danced...nor did I buy her any drinks. I figured she would flake and I wouldn't ever get responses. However, via text she showed some interest in me asking me about myself and what I do etc. I set up a date for dinner with her to which she agreed to come.
Anyway dinner went well. Discussion topics were all over the board (a good thing in my view), she was interested (from what I could tell, like laser-beam eye contact), we laughed, teased each other, shared stories etc...and when the check came, I suggested we go Dutch on the bill. She agreed, but then her entire mood shifted. She became reserved and spoke very little. She then disappeared into the bathroom for about 10 minutes before returning. Upon leaving the restaurant, we exchanged a rather awkward hug. I could tell that if I tried to kiss close, she wouldn't be into it, so I didn't push for it. We just said goodnight and split ways.

A week later I asked her out again via text.
Her: im pretty sure i paid for my own date lol. im going to tampa this weekend sorry
Me: I see. Alrighty then, enjoy FL.
And that was that.

How would you guys have handled this one?
Also, could this just be a sh!t test?

Cheers.
 

The Duke

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Its not a schit test, she was genuinely offended by you not paying, no doubt there. Some have it ingrained in their little brains from a young age that a man that is interested will always pay. I'm sure her insecurities kicked in and she thought "so I'm not good enough for this douchebag to spend $20 on me.....I spent 2hours getting ready for this date, shaved my coochie and my legs, got my nails done, bought a new pair of shoes and he can't buy my meal!!!!!! DAMN HIM"

This is how they think. I've heard the exact statement from some females I know.

Another thing I've learned is that the HB9's that have dated wealthier men have higher financial expectations when it comes to dating. They've been spoiled by guys that don't mind opening their wallet.

The good thing is she did respond to your text and I'd give it a few days and call her. She didn't say NO. She just wanted you to know she was pissed at you not paying.

Pu$$y is never free. It doesn't matter if you rent it, date it, or marry it. You will always have to pay for it in some form.
 
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SgtSplacker

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The paying thing is a delicate one. First date you don't want to create a situation where the pay structure is highlighted. Don't take her anywhere a tab is involved. Once it's clear she's not flaking and is really into you then pick up a tab to show her you care. After that I try to make things casual so it's not creating a habit of always having an expensive dinner just to see each other. From that point on it's all about her showing she's not some cheesy mooch by at least offering to pay something.

Also personally I hate buying dinners, I'd way rather pick up a bar tab.
 

AJHook

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Thanks for the feedback guys, and prompt too!

Normally I prefer action dates for getting to know someone, plus they can act as a great mechanism through which you can really get to know what someone is like and whether or not things may or may not blossom further. Some of my favorites are: taking her to the firing range. If she has never fired a gun before, her level of excitement goes through the roof. It's fun to watch her giggle like a little girl. I also like things like rock climbing or trails, outdoor things...In Appalachia, outdoor life is very prevalent. But this particular chick didn't seem the outdoorsy type, I figured I try something different. But then again, I've also done plenty of sushi dates living in metropolitan cities as well and had success all while only paying my way.

But I think what Howiestern said is true in the case for this one. At the venue where I met her, she was actually with a guy who I presumed to be her boyfriend/date/f*ck-buddy. I played it cool and tried to get to know them both. I was quickly able to discern that he was loaded. He was showing me pictures on his phone of his boats and various apartments throughout the country etc...It might also be worth mentioning that earlier in the same venue, I crossed paths with a girl I dated for a bit. I introduced HB9 to this chick (probably a 7) jokingly saying "this is one my girlfriends so an so." The rest of the night required minimal effort on my part after this.When I was able to isolate the HB9 for a moment, I asked about her male companion. She said he was "just a friend". We exchanged contact info there on the spot. He disappeared for a bit and she and I danced for a little while. Believe it or not, she led on this one. Literally grabbed me by the hand and walked me to the dance floor. Lots of kino etc... When he resurfaced, he was really quite oblivious as he was pretty hammered.

Later on our date, she brought him up in discussion. She said she was basically using him to have a few free nights when he was in town. She then proceeded to show me their text exchanges where he felt like she was obligated to give him the p00n because he had been buying her affection. She wasn't into him at all. My impression was that this girl is accustomed to men literally throwing their wallets at this chick, so my usual protocol of paying only my share would likely be a curve ball for her. Perhaps I simply misjudged.

Cheers.
 

Serenity

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First dates I pay, second date I expect her to pay. If she in any way finds that unfair ( which it objectively is not), then I won't be seeing her anymore. I'm not interested in a poor or selfish woman who can't or won't pay for herself and doesn't understand the concept of fairness.

If I don't want to see her again after first date I'll split the check, that's a pretty good way of letting them know you want no unfinished business because you won't see them again.
 

old_skoolr

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It's only an issue if you make it an issue.

Change your thinking.

Instead of asking, how can I let her know that I expect her to pay her share of the bill?

To

How can I show her a good time and get to know her without having to spend a lot of money?

I always pay for my first dates, only coz 2 coffees, dessert and some great conversation costs less then dinner and awkward conversation on how you should split the bill. That kind of talk doesn't get them wet.
 

Masculinity

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For some reason, a number of women equate a man paying for a date with social status (e.g., someone who doesn't pay is broke, is "violating" social norms, he's this, he's that). To avoid all that crap, don't put yourself in situations where you're tested on this rather meaningless "value." You should have gone on an actions date (e.g., the beach, a park, playing table-hockey [costs $1], etc.) instead of the traditional dinner date, which is known to set off certain expectations in women for you to pay and court, etc. We are not in medieval times. Dates have evolved. A lot of women want to be "equal" to men, but want you to pay for their dinner while on a date, which is hypocrisy. In my opinion, that situation sets up a disparity where a man pays to "make it" to the woman's level or in an attempt to attract her, which places her on a pedestal and places you at the bottom.

Women are creatures very receptive to social rules and to-do's. Instead of thinking independently and critically, most of them make decisions on the "social knowledge" database from their females friends and other female role models. There is literally a book called "The Rules" saying how women ought to behave. The content is completely ridiculous, unless you're a man applying it back to them haha. In short, don't go on dates that require paying or if they do require spending a few dollars, pay it. I usually play a table hockey game at a nearby place and say "loser buys the other one coffee." The funny part is I have gone on so many dates that I'm now very skilled at the game and they end uup paying for me, which spins their hamsters. Be bold, be a leader, take the route less traveled.
 

The Duke

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Lots of good advice in this thread.

One thing that I want to mention geared to the less experienced guys........just be yourself, run the show on your terms. If going dutch is your thing then go dutch. If cheap coffee dates are your thing then do that. If a $150 dinner is your thing then have at it. Just Be true to your self. Be genuine.

It is very important with women to set the "tone" up front. If you are frugal, and take that girl to some expensive place she will perceive you have money and expect to be treated like that on a regular basis. It will cause issues later down the road if it turns out that is not who you really are. So its best to just do the date on your terms, and if that impresses her then great, if not then you filtered out someone that wasn't a good fit.

95% of the time I take first date girls to higher end/low-key restaurant bars that have great atmosphere and we only order drinks and I usually always pay for it if I like them. People are always happier and feel like they've had a good time after they've had 2 drinks! If I like the girl we might take a walk nearby afterwards.
 
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devilkingx2

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For some reason, a number of women equate a man paying for a date with social status (e.g., someone who doesn't pay is broke, is "violating" social norms, he's this, he's that).
a lot of men do that too
 

Masculinity

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a lot of men do that too
Not sure I understand your point...the majority of men have no interest in a woman's status as long as she's physically attractive and isn't a financial burden (e.g., paying all the time) and even THEN some men don't care.

Status isn't as important to men as it is to women.
 

devilkingx2

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Not sure I understand your point...the majority of men have no interest in a woman's status as long as she's physically attractive and isn't a financial burden (e.g., paying all the time) and even THEN some men don't care.

Status isn't as important to men as it is to women.
I meant a lot of men think the only reason not to pay for a date is being a broke weirdo
 

Plums

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Did you invite her for dinner? If you invite someone to dinner or drinks then you should pay because you are offering to take them out. If I invited someone to my home for a meal I wouldn't expect them to bring half the food.
Saying that I think it would have been polite for her to have offered to pay half the bill.
Some people aren't polite.
Anyway I think it is good that you asserted your true feelings towards her regarding the bill so likewise it is good that she asserted hers towards you as well.
In other words, you get what you pay for.
 

EyeBRollin

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If you're too cheap to pay for the first two dates, why are you gaming women? Don't go dutch. It makes you look cheap. You're blowing good leads over $20.

Also, women offer to pay half when they don't like you. If she's interested in you, she either keeps her mouth shut or offers to pay the whole thing.
 

Bible_Belt

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I set up a date for dinner with her to which she agreed to come...and when the check came, I suggested we go Dutch on the bill..
She had every right to be mad. That's a bait and switch. Don't ask her to dinner if you don't want to pay. If you want to go Dutch, make that clear when you are making the date. If you don't want to spend money, go on cheap dates. My dates are usually two drinks each at a bar, after which she offers to pay her half, but I refuse, and then we go home and fvck.
 
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