"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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Ghosting Is Out and Speed-Dumping Is In

Clockwerk50

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“Hannah George was once ghosted by a man she’d been seeing for several weeks. She never wanted to make anyone else feel that way, so she adopted a new approach: texting guys after mediocre first dates to say she wasn’t interested.

Recently, the 24-year-old nutrition assistant in New York was on the receiving end of such a text. A man she’d been out with once sent a paragraph-long message about how he’d just spent time with his family, how it had made him nervous about what he wanted in a relationship and how he just couldn’t be with her.

“I thought it was a little bit too long,” says George. “You didn’t mean this much to me.”

There’s a moment after a dud of a first date—and definitely after a bad one—when the disappointed parties think to themselves: I really hope I don’t hear from that person again. The odds of that are getting slimmer.

Singles are practically racing to let their online matches know that they aren’t a match.”



IMG_3727.jpeg
 

"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

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SW15

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Ghosting is superior to receiving that mamby pamby, candy asssed text message of "I had a good time but do not see things going anywhere" text message.
 

BadBoy89

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Ghosting is superior to receiving that mamby pamby, candy asssed text message of "I had a good time but do not see things going anywhere" text message.
Singles are practically racing to let their online matches know that they aren’t a match.”
Ghosting isn’t superior. Texting to let the other person know they are not a match is a power trip. A woman texting ”we are not match“ first gives her the power feeling, “I made the decision, not him. I am in charge”

My last 2 dates, both women texted me after the date, one after a 1st date and the other after a 2nd date, that they are “not romantically interested”

Only problem is I never asked for a 2nd or 3rd date with either of them. They both told me to ”go to hell” when I didn’t say “let’s do it again”

Its all about Power,
 

"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

Read more...

Chow Mein

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Most of my first date without any further interactions resulted in the girl following up with a pleasant no thank you text.
Ghosting after the two of met shows low quality character in a woman.
 

BillyPilgrim

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This isn't too hard - make sure the women is genuinely interested in you in a person and is open to sexual flirtation before meetup and the chances of being ghosted or speed dumped go way down. Yes, you have to invest some time pre-meet building rapport and sexual tension but in my experience it pays off (and this is where some kind of system involving moves/lines/maneuvers/sequences helps). That being said, if you just want to get dating experience just go for the meet, but be prepared to work if your smv isn't a couple of points above hers.
 

BillyPilgrim

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They used to just end date 1 with saying to you in person, “It was nice meeting you.”

Then you knew it was over lol.
"I hope you find what you're looking for" @BadBoy89
 

"I'm Not Looking for Anything Serious Right Now"

When a woman says it, guys hear a confession. A heads-up. A scheduling conflict.

Here's the translation: I don't feel anything. Right now. With you.

Watch what happens when a man triggers actual attraction. The busy career, the recent breakup, the "not in a place to date" — all of it evaporates instantly. The same woman who was guarding her freedom is suddenly free every night.

The "22 Rules" explain why. When the right switches flip, her timeline rearranges itself around you.

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SW15

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This isn't too hard - make sure the women is genuinely interested in you in a person and is open to sexual flirtation before meetup and the chances of being ghosted or speed dumped go way down. Yes, you have to invest some time pre-meet building rapport and sexual tension but in my experience it pays off (and this is where some kind of system involving moves/lines/maneuvers/sequences helps).
It's more difficult than you are making it out to be. You are also describing a scenario of dates being tech arranged, either via swipe app or social media DM. More of that is done via swipe app than DM.

I think plenty of men do a lousy job of screening when using one of the tech methods. Men live in a state of scarcity when using the tech methods. Men do this because they only get matches on less than 1% of all right swipes. Random DM response rates are also low.

The best way for men to reduce the number of bad dates they have is to not arrange dates via tech methods, where screening is more challenging. When a man only arranges dates in person, he's likely to go on fewer overall dates but maybe more dates that lead to some positive outcome. Even with low match rates online, men in bigger cities can arrange more first dates dates than through approaching in real life simply through swiping on very large numbers of women.

The website/app era of dating has produced more bad dates and more bad interactions than when people solely met through real life interactions.

Ghosting isn’t superior. Texting to let the other person know they are not a match is a power trip. A woman texting ”we are not match“ first gives her the power feeling, “I made the decision, not him. I am in charge”

My last 2 dates, both women texted me after the date, one after a 1st date and the other after a 2nd date, that they are “not romantically interested”

Only problem is I never asked for a 2nd or 3rd date with either of them. They both told me to ”go to hell” when I didn’t say “let’s do it again”

Its all about Power,
I also think there is a power element involved.

The typical "one date, no sex, no second date" interaction involves a man offering a 2nd date and the woman rejecting his offer via ghosting or the "we are not a match" text message.

Some men have learned that if they never text the woman after a first date, they can claim they have the power and they were the ones to walk away. If they never offered a 2nd date, they can claim they ghosted her.

I can't imagine that many men have been texting women to let them know they are not a match. Men aren't doing that in scarcity mode. Men with abundance also aren't going to bother to do that either. Men with either scarcity or abundance would not make the 2nd date offer.

I can imagine women pre-emptively doing a "we are not a match" text to avoid receiving a text message offering a 2nd date or to assert power as you claim.

The last tech arranged date I had involved me not contacting the woman after the date. She never contacted me either. I can claim I was the one who walked away.

In the earlier days of tech dating, I had too many dates where I offered a 2nd date and was either ghosted or received the "we are not a match" text. I would rather be ghosted than receive that text. I stopped offering 2nd dates when I thought either of those outcomes would happen.

It is easier to screen for good interest levels and the potential of a good first date when only arranging dates through real life methods. More men doing this would be doing it off of real life stranger approaches than through a social circle. Fewer men now have a social circle capable of getting them first dates and quality first dates. There's also less real life approaching happening now.

They used to just end date 1 with saying to you in person, “It was nice meeting you.”

Then you knew it was over lol.
I think text messaging has de-personalized the dating process.

I first entered the mating market in the late 1990s/early 2000s. Text messaging was not common during that time.

In thinking back to how communication was done in the 1999-2006 era (ages 16-23 for me), it was either done with landlines or flip/candy bar cell phones that were primitive with text messages. In the era of flip/candy bar phones, the main feature of cell phones was mobile calling.

I don't remember many dates ending like that. There were complaints in the 1980s-2000s about using phones in the early stage dating process. SoSuave was around in the early 2000s, so there were probably threads in that era about leaving voice messages and calling women before and after first dates. Reading those threads in 2025 would be unusual because few people use the phone for voice calling now in the early stages of dating.

I don't think women liked getting phone calls and voice messages from men after first dates. There were fewer first dates back then too because fewer people were arranging bad dates as a result of tech methods of dating.
 
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Travel memoir21

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Lol Id rather have ghosting the crap end and continue the end it all it on the first or second date. Bad date or not, that still counts as some sort of experience for the guy and feedback for what he needs to do in the future.
 

SW15

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feedback for what he needs to do in the future.
Most men get little direct feedback in the form of words about their dates.

Men can have some feedback from actions. It's up to the individual man to interpret actions. Not all actions are easy to interpret.

I don't think bad dates offer that much feedback.

Bad date or not, that still counts as some sort of experience for the guy
Are bad dates better than no dates at all? That's debatable.

A man who experiences many bad dates (usually tech arranged ones) is going to experience some level of trauma from his failed dates. A guy who experiences no dates might not have as much trauma. If he's not making any efforts and living in a MGTOW sort of way, he's not experiencing direct trauma, though there's likely indirect trauma from being a non-entity and ignored in the mating market.
 

DJ Novice

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I ghost and have been ghosted after multiple dates. It’s no big deal. It’s the way the dating world works these days. It sends a clear message that you’re no longer interested.
 

BillyPilgrim

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It's more difficult than you are making it out to be. You are also describing a scenario of dates being tech arranged, either via swipe app or social media DM. More of that is done via swipe app than DM.

I think plenty of men do a lousy job of screening when using one of the tech methods. Men live in a state of scarcity when using the tech methods. Men do this because they only get matches on less than 1% of all right swipes. Random DM response rates are also low.

The best way for men to reduce the number of bad dates they have is to not arrange dates via tech methods, where screening is more challenging. When a man only arranges dates in person, he's likely to go on fewer overall dates but maybe more dates that lead to some positive outcome. Even with low match rates online, men in bigger cities can arrange more first dates dates than through approaching in real life simply through swiping on very large numbers of women.

The website/app era of dating has produced more bad dates and more bad interactions than when people solely met through real life interactions.



I also think there is a power element involved.

The typical "one date, no sex, no second date" interaction involves a man offering a 2nd date and the woman rejecting his offer via ghosting or the "we are not a match" text message.

Some men have learned that if they never text the woman after a first date, they can claim they have the power and they were the ones to walk away. If they never offered a 2nd date, they can claim they ghosted her.

I can't imagine that many men have been texting women to let them know they are not a match. Men aren't doing that in scarcity mode. Men with abundance also aren't going to bother to do that either. Men with either scarcity or abundance would not make the 2nd date offer.

I can imagine women pre-emptively doing a "we are not a match" text to avoid receiving a text message offering a 2nd date or to assert power as you claim.

The last tech arranged date I had involved me not contacting the woman after the date. She never contacted me either. I can claim I was the one who walked away.

In the earlier days of tech dating, I had too many dates where I offered a 2nd date and was either ghosted or received the "we are not a match" text. I would rather be ghosted than receive that text. I stopped offering 2nd dates when I thought either of those outcomes would happen.

It is easier to screen for good interest levels and the potential of a good first date when only arranging dates through real life methods. More men doing this would be doing it off of real life stranger approaches than through a social circle. Fewer men now have a social circle capable of getting them first dates and quality first dates. There's also less real life approaching happening now.



I think text messaging has de-personalized the dating process.

I first entered the mating market in the late 1990s/early 2000s. Text messaging was not common during that time.

In thinking back to how communication was done in the 1999-2006 era (ages 16-23 for me), it was either done with landlines or flip/candy bar cell phones that were primitive with text messages. In the era of flip/candy bar phones, the main feature of cell phones was mobile calling.

I don't remember many dates ending like that. There were complaints in the 1980s-2000s about using phones in the early stage dating process. SoSuave was around in the early 2000s, so there were probably threads in that era about leaving voice messages and calling women before and after first dates. Reading those threads in 2025 would be unusual because few people use the phone for voice calling now in the early stages of dating.

I don't think women liked getting phone calls and voice messages from men after first dates. There were fewer first dates back then too because fewer people were arranging bad dates as a result of tech methods of dating.
I would say what I posted still applied to cold approach where you have a short convo, get the # and scram (as opposed to an insta-date scenario) and then further the getting-to-know-you part over texting or over the phone
 

"You'll Never Feel READY to Walk Over"

Next Monday you'll feel more confident. After the gym you'll feel more confident. After one more drink you'll feel more confident. After you get a better haircut, a better jacket, a better job.

You've been "getting ready" for two years.

She's standing ten feet away right now. She'll be gone in four minutes. No amount of preparation will manufacture the courage that only comes from moving your feet.

Walk over. Stumble through the first sentence. Let it be clumsy. Let it be imperfect. You will feel more alive in those ten seconds than you have all month.

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SW15

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I would say what I posted still applied to cold approach where you have a short convo, get the # and scram (as opposed to an insta-date scenario) and then further the getting-to-know-you part over texting or over the phone
When most men do real life approaching, they are getting a phone number and scramming.

That's a flawed way to do real life approaching.

With a real life approach, there needs to be an extended conversation to prove compatibility in order to reduce the probability of a failed first date. Also, the objective of the approach needs to be making the future social outing plans right there in person. A phone number exchange should only happen after setting a time & place for a future social outing.

Voice calls are not feasible for younger women today. Good luck getting a woman born in the early 1980s or later to get on a voice call. Text messaging is also limiting too. It has its flaws.

Insta-dates are not likely in non-bar approaching scenarios. Most women aren't going to do an instantaneous, 1-2 hour date off of a non-bar approach. Getting a 10-15 minute is an achievement in a non-bar approach setting.
 

Vanderdonck

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This is all about ego. Nobody owes you anything and nobody cares if who left whom. As with most things if you have a life and abundance you'll barely notice.
 

Solomon

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Ghosting is superior to receiving that mamby pamby, candy asssed text message of "I had a good time but do not see things going anywhere" text message.
This is the funniest yet realist comment you ever posted, I think the cany ass message usually is a "Nice letdown" still a let down and half the time the girl isn't telling the truth. I respect a chick more for cutting things of regardless with 80% of first dates never leading to a 2nd date ghosting unfortantley is par the course for most first dates even if you get to smash
 

SW15

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Ghosting is superior to receiving that mamby pamby, candy asssed text message of "I had a good time but do not see things going anywhere" text message.
This is the funniest yet realist comment you ever posted, I think the cany ass message usually is a "Nice letdown" still a let down and half the time the girl isn't telling the truth. I respect a chick more for cutting things of regardless with 80% of first dates never leading to a 2nd date ghosting unfortantley is par the course for most first dates even if you get to smash
You make a very important point that the girl isn't usually telling the truth.

If a female ghosts, she is telling the truth. Her action of ghosting tells the male everything he needs to know.

The woman's nice letdown effort is unproductive. The half truth and lack of complete honesty in the feedback is worse than a simple ghosting.

Failed first dates (ones with no sex) are a disappointment for most men.

First dates with sex but a post sex ghosting are a disappointment for the men who would like something more than one instance of sex. I think there are men who would like to have sex with a woman more than just one time, but aren't necessarily looking for a committed relationship. When the interactions fails to live up to an expectation for the man, it is natural for him to feel some unhappy feelings.
 

"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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