Gaining strength but not mass

[Konada]

Just switched over to ICF 5x5. Progression in loads are increasing nicely but I cant seem to pack on mass. Been stuck at 120lbs for quite awhile now. Is this a case of just not eating enough?

 

[AAAgent]

Yes, I would say it's a case of not eating enough. I'm an athlete, not a body builder, so some of the other guys might be able to explain better. For me to gain 15lbs from 165lbs to 180lbs+, I was eating for 4-5 months more than I was eating when i was training competitively. I would eat whole pizza pies in one sitting multiple times a week, I would order take out that would include appetizer, soup, and entree, and eat it all in one sitting by myself. Breakfast, i would eat 2 greek yogurts, and a 6 egg omelet or sometimes 2 large breakfast sandwiches.

Just got to eat, eat, and eat. It's so much easier to maintain the weight after you've gotten yourself to that point than it is to gain weight.

 

[AttackFormation]

You've gotta eat enough, but don't be fooled. A factory which is already working at its maximum efficiency won't put out more stuff because you stack more material in it. You eat slightly above maintenance and that's it. The body can't make more muscle mass than it has the ability to manufacture, no matter how many chicken breasts you eat. That's why you know you're probably eating too much if you're going up in weight but you're also progressively seeing less and less of your abs.

 

[marmel75]

People eat way too much protein anyway. At most, the body needs 0.64 g per pound of bodyweight. This is the level above where researchers saw no additional benefit from adding more protein. For a 200 lb man this equates to 128g per day. The closer you get to your genetic potential as far as muscle growth and the longer you train, the more efficient your body will become at using protein and the less you will need. So as you become bigger, you actually need LESS protein not more.

 

[marmel75]

I actually got banned from a bodybuilding forum for stating the exact same thing as you, Bill Pearl who was a pro bodybuilder back in the 70 said he barely ate 80G of protein per day.

I tested this on myself and my body looks the same as when i was chugging down 200g per day.

Even Vince Gironda egg and steak diet twice per day is around 120g of protein depending on the size of the steak.

A lot of people are allergic to whey protein, bloating gas, digestive problems. But its the staple of any bodybuilding supplement never the less.

Waste of money.

The only exception to this is if you are running steroid cycles because your body is then able to assimilate far more protein than you could otherwise...it basically takes the regulator off the engine.

 

[massimoalema]

I’m not sure if anybody can say for sure who first did a program consisting of 5 sets of 5 repetitions; it certainly wouldn’t surprise me if lifters in the early 20th century didn’t do something similar since they seem to have tried just about everything at one point or another.

 

[EFFORT]

Just switched over to ICF 5x5. Progression in loads are increasing nicely but I cant seem to pack on mass. Been stuck at 120lbs for quite awhile now. Is this a case of just not eating enough?

Hey Konada, nice to see you're still around. What does a typical days eating look like for you?

 

[Konada]

Breakfast: Standard 1 cup oats + 2 eggs + 1 scoop whey
<School> (Usually I bring about 100g of Almonds along with me to last throughout classes, Egg Mayo Sandwich (about 300cals))
Dinner: Rice + Meat (As much as possible)
Supper: 700cal worth of noodles + 2 scoop whey + 500ml milk
Post WO - 2 scoops whey
Pre-WO - 1 scoop whey + 250ml milk

 

[marmel75]

Well if nothing else you'll be gaining a ton of inflammatory bloat weight...way too much whey...at that level every day your body will become extremely upset in a very short time...

 

[marmel75]

I respect anyone that uses anabolic i am not against them at all but i know there effect on me not for me.

I do not wanna use steroids anymore, i am doing it naturally and when i got my Cuba shape i did it natural too.

The only reason i am gonna inject T once more is when i go see a medical doctor and he gets a blood test showing i have low T.

I So wish I could handle anabolics better than I can...my body trips out on anything more that a slightly higher than TRT doseage. I mean hell, 30mg a week of Tren was about to shut down my fvcking kidneys...

If I could handle running cycles properly I would be so jacked it's not even funny...

 

[Tenacity]

I'm not really that knowledgeable on the "bulking" side of things, but why is everybody saying to "eat more"? And when you guys are saying eat more, you aren't saying healthy sources, you are recommending to eat more processed food and processed crap like large pizzas?

Wouldn't that make the person unhealthy and fat? I don't get it ?

 

[speed dawg]

Mass has always been very easy for me to pack on, and I eat way too much. Take from that what you will.

 

[mrRuckus]

I'm not really that knowledgeable on the "bulking" side of things, but why is everybody saying to "eat more"?

Because the human body is incapable of violating the laws of physics by creating mass out of nothing.

 

[Tenacity]

Yeah guys, I'm just not understanding this at all. When you guys refer to "mass" you are referring to body weight in general (body fat), not MUSCLE mass, correct?

So basically you guys are going out here looking to increase your body fat percentages so you can put on some "size" or some "mass"?

Can someone please explain to me how that makes any type of sense lol? I mean we can spend 20 pages talking about how unhealthy this is to eat processed food in large amounts on a daily basis, but you would be putting on large amounts of body fat in the process? When you tell chicks that you workout, none of them would believe you.

I'm confused here........

 

[AAAgent]

bulking is essentially the process of eating a sh1t ton of food to gain more mass/weight. The mass/weight will inherently be part muscle and part fat. It's easier to eat processed food because it cheaper and sometimes more convenient. Either way, eating a sh1t ton of food will make you bigger and if you are bulking, you can either start cutting once you're done and eat healthier and thereby getting rid of all that nasty fat/carb weight and maintaining the muscle weight.....or if you're eating healthier to begin with, it will probably be more expensive but a better cleaner bulk.

 

[Gman21]

Fat and muscle, mass in general. At 120 pounds you need to eat your arse off and lift heavy. Compound movements, consistency and persistence is key.

If you have the means I suggest buying bulk quantities of potatoes, rice, beans, oats, and big rolls of ground beef or ground chuck, bags of chicken breast, add in leafy greens as you can. Treat yourself to a fat ribeye every few days.

You rely on whey far too much. Oh, and If youre on the run and it's fast food or nothing, get the fast food and get some calories down the shoot. However , it will greatly benefit you to learn to buy whole foods in bulk, look for sales and learn to prepare multiple meals for the days ahead.

I would recommend working up to 5 meals per day with a shake post workout. Keep it simple stick to the basics for now. Eat heavy train heavy.

 

[AttackFormation]

Yeah guys, I'm just not understanding this at all. When you guys refer to "mass" you are referring to body weight in general (body fat), not MUSCLE mass, correct?

So basically you guys are going out here looking to increase your body fat percentages so you can put on some "size" or some "mass"?

Can someone please explain to me how that makes any type of sense lol? I mean we can spend 20 pages talking about how unhealthy this is to eat processed food in large amounts on a daily basis, but you would be putting on large amounts of body fat in the process? When you tell chicks that you workout, none of them would believe you.

I'm confused here........

It's just another instance of the old myth of "bulking for mass" appearing. As has been said already, you cannot "eat more" to get bigger muscles if they are already getting the fuel they need. If you eat more than you need to, you will get fatter, and that's it. Muscle mass is defined by hormones, not food intake, that's why someone on steroids can basically eat anything while fat boy just gets a bigger gut and a set of titties from gulping down chicken breast all day. Eat slightly more than maintenance and you're set.

However if you want to get fatter then by all means eat substantially more than your body needs. You will indeed gain "mass".

 

[Tenacity]

bulking is essentially the process of eating a sh1t ton of food to gain more mass/weight. The mass/weight will inherently be part muscle and part fat. It's easier to eat processed food because it cheaper and sometimes more convenient. Either way, eating a sh1t ton of food will make you bigger and if you are bulking, you can either start cutting once you're done and eat healthier and thereby getting rid of all that nasty fat/carb weight and maintaining the muscle weight.....or if you're eating healthier to begin with, it will probably be more expensive but a better cleaner bulk.

So correct me if I'm wrong here? This is what you guys are saying:

- A guy wants to "gain mass"

- The guy goes and eats large pizzas, chinese buffets and BBQ ribs all day

- The guy also lifts weights on the side

- In the process of doing this, he will get "bigger"

- Once he gets "bigger", then he would start eating healthier to maintain muscle weight?

Is this the plan here lol? If so, this makes absolutely no sense to me.

Following what you guys are saying is going to build "mass" alright, FAT MASS. Not MUSCLE MASS. How in the hell do you build MUSCLE MASS from processed garbage like large pizzas?

If the guy wanted to gain "MUSCLE MASS" why not do it through eating more HEALTHY food sources while adding additional supplements that support muscle growth, while also increasing the weight/resistance in the gym? That's building MUSCLE MASS.

I don't know man, this is why I rant on the Fitness Community because it's just stuff like this that's pushed out here, that make absolutely no sense and go counter-culture to every damn thing you are taught about PROPER nutrition, PROPER eating and PROPER dieting.

Even in my thread, I had a couple guys respond saying I needed to add "mass", and I'm thinking to myself, what in the hell are they talking about?

So NOW I see what you guys are talking about, basically after 4-5 months of HELL to get my bodyfat levels down to where my abs are visible and chicks are getting wet over seeing me shirtless, I'm supposed to now GO EAT LARGE PIZZAS every day to put the god damn FAT back on lol??

What in the world guys, seriously, what is this man lol?

 

[Gman21]

I would never advise anyone to eat piss poorly often just to add mass. In the sake of the 120 pound man looking to add size, I would recommend he eat that pizza rather than skip a meal, but only periodically, not daily. As I stated the majority of his cals ideally would come from whole food sources.

Also tenacity, his goals at the moment are different than yours. You have a solid base built, at 120 pounds my guess is this man doesn't yet. His typical diet is insufficient, he posted an example.

 

[AAAgent]

Bulking is bulking. Tenacity asked what exactly is bulking and I explained it. THere's always the right way to do things, but i'm being realistic here. Also, I don't bulk clean and neither does everyone else, but I know for a fact that there are people that bulk dirty and ones that bulk clean. Clean bulk is obviously better, as the cutting portion of dieting will be shorter........ but I'd prefer to cut a week or 2 longer, then have to go through eating bland food all the time as I don't cook well.

But i bulk with piss poor food.....and my friend bulks with green's, mashed potatoes, grilled chicken, etc. I'm also a vegetarian so I would go crazy eating bland tofu and quinoa.

Also, benefits of eating like crap is........crap is sometimes cheaper, and it's doesn't take much prep time. The healthy side of bulking is often times more expensive, and you'll probably need to set aside hours of meal prep time and buy package material to store in your fridge.



What you and op are doing is great. Learn to lift first, build a foundation so you're not throwing around baby weights and can do the exercises properly. When you're ready to lift heavier and want to get BIGGER, that's when you bulk. Bulking will get you FAT. Bulking is eating large quantities of food in a short span of 3-6 months to gain a lot of weight (this can be 10lbs for a light person or 25lbs for a large person). You can also obviously gain the weight very slowly over the course of 2 years and burn the fat into muscle over time and not have to look FAT, but i'd rather suffer 3 months of looking fat and getting more mass on me then have to slowly do it over the span of 2 years to get to the look or strength I want.

Pro's of bulking are you get bigger and stronger faster, but cons are you need to suffer looking fat/chubby for a short period of time.
Eating healthy and slowly packing on weight will mean you don't get fat and get to the same goal, but you'll get to the goal alot slower, than bulking.


The part you don't understand Tenacity, seems to be the biology part. I'm not an expert but it's pretty much common sense that the more weight/mass you put on, it will be split into fat and muscle. Even if you do jack sh1t and eat pizza's all day everyday and get fat as h3ll, there will be weight/mass that is muscle. So naturally, the bigger you are, the stronger you are.

Bulking allows you to get extra muscle and size, making you stronger at that time. Then you force yourself to lift heavier weights, and due to muscle memory and after you start cutting some weight, and burning fat into muscle, your muscles will be accustomed to lifting heavier. You'll lose some muscle initially from the cutting and you'll potentially get lighter in the beginning, but at the same time, if you are lifting hard, you'll be burning the extra fat into extra muscle which should off set some of the weight you're losing. Your size will decrease but fat will turn into muscle which will off set the weight your cutting.

In the end, most people that bulk up to XYZ weight, after cutting properly, only lose a handful or two of pounds once done cutting, but they ultimately look totally different.


I started at 170lbs in college. I bulked to 188lbs, and cut to 180lbs. My standing weight is now 177lbs and i'm lifting the same weights I was when i was 190lbs basically.