Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Friendship with women

Lynx nkaf

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It never came up really so I’ve never been asked by a man not to. Men observe what I do and how I behave. And I’ve always been transparent about male friends. So I’ve never had a man put his foot down about it.

About dating other guys/exploring other dating options? Yes. And on that issue I don’t tolerate double standards, and am fine dropping others so long as he will too...but my friends are friends, not potential dating partners.

That’s where the fundamental argument is. Some people don’t think any male/female dynamic can be non sexually charged, especially if the people are objectively attractive. Others think platonic male/female friendships are possible without sexual energy. I’m in the latter camp.

My submission is in putting my man as top priority and treating him well & deferring to him. My male friends (actually ALL my friends) know my man comes first...just as their partner comes first if they have a wife or girlfriend. Mutual respect there.

My ex BF used to say “call so and so (male friend) and see what they got going tonight. Maybe we can meet up out...” just cool people hanging out together.

I’m not going to jettison friendships with people who have been solid friends, true friends, in my life, male or female, because some new beau of 2 or 3 months says so. These are people who were there when the chips were down and the shjt hit the fan in my life. I’ve had some of these friends longer than my children and longer than any romantic relationship. They are friends for life.

Most people have relatively few lifelong friends. They are blessings. I’m not ditching my most loyal, true, no BS friends. I’m delighted for serious romantic partners to meet them, they are like family and they have my back.

But really I don’t find it to be an issue and I gravitate to men who a.) don’t have insecurity about it and don’t become worried based on my behavior and b.) have female friends of long standing nature of their own who aren’t romantic prospects.
Ok, I believe you.

With so many male friends, are any of them here as members of sosuave or do you keep the membership here private and part of your inner personal life like I do?
Your son(s) are potentially here too?

My word, I would tell a future boyfriend anything, including any forums I'm on. That's my default, is to reveal everything. Experience my emotions openly and what I think is authentic.

Saturation by honesty.

Its been too much for the exes and I need to refine my maturity. I've done it this way because that's how I wanted to be treated. 'Treat others as you want to be treated'

Now.......I don't know if I reveal too much. It is difficult to calibrate as I'm a female Sigma or lone wolf as decribed in one of the recent books I've read....I think in 'Men on Strike'

I actually have jettisoned long term friendships thinking I was pleasing the boyfriend, only to lose him too after a breakup.

So if you offered friendship to a man it potentially would be a high value friendship that is more valuable than some shortlived passionate romance. Doesn't sound like a consolation prize-it sounds ideal as the man would become part of your highvalue, longstanding social circle.

Huh. I continue to keep learning from you Be.
I thought you were different and was curious about a girl on a men's forum when I was just lurking here last year after being a brief registered early summer member, asking to have it deleted, then reregistering in November.

Thank you for replying, I appreciate it.
 

BeExcellent

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I think you might not perceive
Believe me I understand this innately. But I also know that each of us are limited by our own level of growth and self awareness. I am still growing as a person, but I understand male/female dynamics very well, and I read the nuances very well. I get it.

The fact that a woman that is supposed to submit needs to keep another dude as an intimate friend and will choose to do so against the silent wishes and would spend time with them in a different compartment in there mind that is separate is not ok
I want to point out that your preferences and assumptions are coloring your commentary here. You make the assumption that 1. All men would silently disapprove (not true) and 2. That a woman should be able to mind read and know about this silent wish.

These are YOUR parameters. You cannot extrapolate those to others. Submission is out of respect. I have noted numerous times in this post how I place my man as the priority such that he does not doubt my loyalty versus my friends. I seek for my lover to be my best friend as well as my lover.

My two closest male friends (one is like a brother to me who I've known since age 16), and the other my Vegas ex from 30 years ago, are not people I talk to on the regular. Neither one is an orbiter, I assure you. They both have their own lives, their love lives, etc., as do I. Since going to Las Vegas last year on Labor Day I did not see my Vegas friend since that weekend until June of this year, and that was because my ex BF drove me down to go to dinner at his restaurant and meet him/spend time together for an evening. My other serious male friend I always see when I go back to my hometown at the holidays...as you would a sibling, and my ex BF met him several times. We talk at length a few times a year. So this is not something on the daily. And Vegas guy dates women half my age, lol. No orbiter there at all.

I assume your guy friends are manly but even if not, there doesn't have to be any sex going on to break or prevent the tie.
One of the other posters nailed it by saying, when you are in a place of great abundance you don't need to be thirsty for everything around you. My male friends are masculine, desirable guys, they are handsome devils too. Some of them actively run rotations of women that would make your head spin (one keeps a calendar with all the names...dates with 20 different women last month alone in the midst of a pandemic, lol - and many of these were escalated to sex btw)...so these men can get sex easily and can afford to be choosy. You don't eat when you aren't hungry, and you get really picky about what you'll consider when you have so many options. This leads me back to the alchemy of individual attraction as I noted previously. People with this much abundance become discerning, unless they are just sport f.cking, which is what some of these guys do, and easily too. It's pretty funny actually.

In many ways my buddies and I appreciate the perspective offered by the opposite sex, without all the complications of a sexual interaction or a "relationship". So it works just fine. I too have more abundance at any given time then I can (or want) to entertain...so I'm dialed in on my own parameters. Some of my buddies consider me the bigger player in fact because I know the game as well as I do. The difference is I have zero desire to get laid indiscriminately... I could of course, but that's too easy and it isn't who I am or how I conduct myself...the fact that I could, if I chose to is enough. No need to actually do it. So I reserve lover status only for men I truly desire...and those are rare birds indeed.

You said we hung out. But did you spend time with them a lot on 1 on 1 without the bf?
Typically no. Once in while yes, but only very occasionally and only with disclosure to the BF.

Not best friend BE. Thats called family at that point. Like his own sister.
Not sister. Best friend. Like a sister, yes, but not a sister. My friend since I was 16 is like this as well. Like a brother. Known him 35 years.
Still an opposite sex friend.

@Lynx nkaf I do reveal that I am active in an online men's community. I don't give details because I value my privacy. Eventually I'll introduce my son around here. If anything ever happens to me I'd want him to be able to read my content, and I'd want him to know this community exists.
 

Lynx nkaf

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Believe me I understand this innately. But I also know that each of us are limited by our own level of growth and self awareness. I am still growing as a person, but I understand male/female dynamics very well, and I read the nuances very well. I get it.



I want to point out that your preferences and assumptions are coloring your commentary here. You make the assumption that 1. All men would silently disapprove (not true) and 2. That a woman should be able to mind read and know about this silent wish.

These are YOUR parameters. You cannot extrapolate those to others. Submission is out of respect. I have noted numerous times in this post how I place my man as the priority such that he does not doubt my loyalty versus my friends. I seek for my lover to be my best friend as well as my lover.

My two closest male friends (one is like a brother to me who I've known since age 16), and the other my Vegas ex from 30 years ago, are not people I talk to on the regular. Neither one is an orbiter, I assure you. They both have their own lives, their love lives, etc., as do I. Since going to Las Vegas last year on Labor Day I did not see my Vegas friend since that weekend until June of this year, and that was because my ex BF drove me down to go to dinner at his restaurant and meet him/spend time together for an evening. My other serious male friend I always see when I go back to my hometown at the holidays...as you would a sibling, and my ex BF met him several times. We talk at length a few times a year. So this is not something on the daily. And Vegas guy dates women half my age, lol. No orbiter there at all.



One of the other posters nailed it by saying, when you are in a place of great abundance you don't need to be thirsty for everything around you. My male friends are masculine, desirable guys, they are handsome devils too. Some of them actively run rotations of women that would make your head spin (one keeps a calendar with all the names...dates with 20 different women last month alone in the midst of a pandemic, lol - and many of these were escalated to sex btw)...so these men can get sex easily and can afford to be choosy. You don't eat when you aren't hungry, and you get really picky about what you'll consider when you have so many options. This leads me back to the alchemy of individual attraction as I noted previously. People with this much abundance become discerning, unless they are just sport f.cking, which is what some of these guys do, and easily too. It's pretty funny actually.

In many ways my buddies and I appreciate the perspective offered by the opposite sex, without all the complications of a sexual interaction or a "relationship". So it works just fine. I too have more abundance at any given time then I can (or want) to entertain...so I'm dialed in on my own parameters. Some of my buddies consider me the bigger player in fact because I know the game as well as I do. The difference is I have zero desire to get laid indiscriminately... I could of course, but that's too easy and it isn't who I am or how I conduct myself...the fact that I could, if I chose to is enough. No need to actually do it. So I reserve lover status only for men I truly desire...and those are rare birds indeed.



Typically no. Once in while yes, but only very occasionally and only with disclosure to the BF.



Not sister. Best friend. Like a sister, yes, but not a sister. My friend since I was 16 is like this as well. Like a brother. Known him 35 years.
Still an opposite sex friend.

@Lynx nkaf I do reveal that I am active in an online men's community. I don't give details because I value my privacy. Eventually I'll introduce my son around here. If anything ever happens to me I'd want him to be able to read my content, and I'd want him to know this community exists.
good idea; I'm learning how to guard my privacy without being dishonest too. There's new men to meet in tomorrow's social event....I will calibrate. Thanks again for reply
 

Trojan3000

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There are some guys that are on here just to brag and to pose as "alphas". Since I find those type of guys boring and their comments unhelpful, I just hit the ignore button and they're gone forever, just like flushing the toilet.

I think there's a lot of dogma and groupthink in pickup. It's almost like people are reciting lines to each other, rather than actually thinking about what they're saying. People say online is dead and you should meet girls in real life through social circle, but what kind of social circle are you going to have if you don't have any female friends?

I agree that it tends to be a bad idea to play the friend to a girl that you actually want to date, but I don't think it's always bad to be friends with women. As an example last time I was in Dubai I met a friend that works for Emirates and she showed me around and we had a great time. I saw places I would never have seen if I didn't know her. Plus most of her friends are Emirates cabin crew. Another friend that I like to hang out with in London (that I don't find attractive) often talks about the men she meets on dating apps and I find it hilarious - it's funny to see the other side of the coin and see what kind of experience women are having.
Yeah I agree with everything you said here. Having female friends is one of the best way to pull other girls. You can literally be anywhere and women see you with 2 chicks who are having a good time with you and suddenly think "hm whats this guy about". Trust and believe when I say being with 2 dudes in a similar situation does not have the same effect. I would never recommend going with female friends to the club alone though, always have a few guys there too. Not to mention they can be tremendous wings. Definitely gotta start using the ignore button on here if I decide to stick around. A lot of these guys are jokes. It's like tape recorders of manufactured bull****. Though I tend to always question the credibility of people who spend time online trying to give advice to other dudes through text.

These guy talking about "i cant wait till he learns"..lmao learn what? I used to be the type who had no female friends, and let me tell you having female friends is awesome. Having friends IN GENERAL is awesome. These dudes are quacks. I wonder what they do on their spare time.
Reads like your mixed group of friends is a soft harem, covert swingers party. Nothing wrong with that by the way. Having female friends is good social proof. Everyone pretends that their friends of the opposite sex are nothing but "innocent friendships" - huge power in that frame because it communicates abundance and that you don't drool over every woman in your orbit, and you are friend-zoning women - "relax bro, she's just my friend". Reality is that at least one side of the equation has some level of attraction - drunken party "whoops it just happened" plausible deniability co-ed friendship circle Game. The whole point of social circle Game is co-ed social circles masquerading as innocent friendships - build comfort, proximity infatuation, eventually leads to sex.
Haha not at all. We're all in our mid to late 20's and drink together more often than not. There has just been chance times where some of us guys have slept with some of the girls. We don't really talk about it or bring it up unless it comes up somehow, except for one chick who used to brag about it almost like "I slept with almost every guy in this room" lol. She's awesome though. A great host and a great cook. She just used to be super easy and need lots of validation. and yeah I agree with some of what you're saying for sure. Having lots of friends, male and female is amazing for social proof, and it just leads you to finding more encounters, and building on some deeper connections and understanding, not only of the male/female dynamic but also your female friends will tell you alot about things. If it werent for me having female friends, I would not have understood a lot of more complex concepts about women. and what other men are doing wrong etc.
 

Trojan3000

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Now you stated many of the girls your are fcking or spinning dont meet your 6-7 yr old friends. (Assuming female ones)
But why? Its very telling. Whats the root of it?
Is this a serious question man? Why would I bring **** buddies into my friends group? I'm not trying to date these women. What a stupid question no offense. I thought that was one of the most basic principles dudes use. Bring some slutty girl i met at the club who I only meet to blast loads off around my friends? lol should i make her meet my family next?

i keep my sex life pretty personal around my friends unless theres a reason to talk about it. i might talk to my best friend/main club buddy about my girls but even then i dont spend time chatting away about girls im ****ing. my friends already know i have a "playa" reputation. now i dont want every new person who comes around or into our group or any event knowing all that too lol.
 

bat soup

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One of the other posters nailed it by saying, when you are in a place of great abundance you don't need to be thirsty for everything around you.
That's it. exactly. Friendship between men and women is possible when the desire for her is either absent or not very strong. If a guy has plenty of other options then he's not going to feel at all emasculated by hanging out with a woman that is not interested. A dog with a full stomach is not going to feel bad watching his master eat a tasty piece of meat, but if the dog is starving...

Another factor is that over time desire can fade away and a woman you strongly desired 10 years ago can be a genuine friend today. In a way that lack of desire is a relief, because now you can relax and just appreciate the person for who they are rather than thinking about want you want from them.

However, if you don't feel like you have many other options and you have a very strong desire for a particular woman, it's impossible and unrealistic to try to be her friend.
 

BeExcellent

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Typically no because it doesn't exist without someone motives.

Nothing personal but i firmly believe women cannot see certain truths. This is one of them.
And no your not special because you hang out here.
There are only 4 possible positions to be in besides lover in human gender dynamics and friends is not one.

If its a friend as you explained it then its family. And im willing to bet even those 2 dont spend a significant time with each other.
There is a specific reason you said no to my question.
You have your beliefs. You are entitled to your beliefs. But your beliefs do not define my reality. You think I can't see things. Oh yes I can. The reality I have outlined is not in line with your beliefs. It's still reality whether it fits your belief system or not.

The fact that you are saying those people are family...when they aren't by the very definition of family concedes that these friendships exist, are possible and so on. But that doesn't fit your personal paradigm so you reclassify these friendships. They aren't family, they are friends...obviously...but that doesn't jive with your belief system, even though its objective reality.

There is no specific reason I said anything. I simply answered accurately. Why must you construe all this? Because it doesn't fit in the box of your beliefs? The world is not going to conform to your beliefs, just because you hold them dear.

And I don't "feel special" because I hang out here. I just hang out here. It's interesting all the projection onto me, but that's what you are doing...projecting.
 
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dude99

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I was thinking about this - do any of you have real friendships with women? Some people say that you should never be friends with women or at least with women you find attractive and I somewhat agree, however... I also have some friends that are women and they are actually good friends that I have known for many years. The wall also comes into play, because a girl that you used to find attractive can become unattractive and therefore you can genuinely both end up just wanting to be friends.
The only way for a friendship to ever work between a man and a woman is this,

If the guy 100% truly never ever wants to date her. Ever. He has to find the idea of dating her funny/unnacceptable/out of the question.

I say this is the only way, because if a guy likes a girl even a little bit, the girl will try to exploit that and use the guy. A girl can't be true friends with a guy she knows has feelings for her, and not exploit that perceived advantage she has over him.

The guy has to have zero absolute zero interest in her or it can never work.
 

BeExcellent

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No B its facts based off reasoning. Not beliefs based of the "feels" which is your primary mode of female logic. Thats just your DNA girl.
Opinion isn't fact. Objective reality is fact. The idea that your beliefs affect my actual life is absurd. That's OK you can say whatever you like but it still doesn't change the facts I have related.
 

2Rocky

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Former lovers, LTR's, Crushes, and FB's do not get anywhere close to the friendzone.

Women I've befriended during an LTR seem to remain slotted there in the friendzone after the relationship ends. Often they may have some characteristic that rules them out as potential romantic partners. While those particular red flags in a stranger would not rule them out for a low commitment interaction. Mainly I think because I care what my friends think, and not necessarily the stranger.

Vocational friendships is an interesting read. I find I assign each of my acquaintances to some specialized role, while only a few tick all the boxes as a BFF.
 

mrgoodstuff

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There is a reason i asked and it went right over your head as i thought it would. The topic was friendship with women.
No offense taken. Its a matter of beliefs in the gender dynamic.
Keep in mind even when spinning i wouldnt fck so low on the scale these women would be seen as a dumpster dive to anyone i knew.
Why did you care what they thought if in reality it was an upgrade in many ways?
 

Trojan3000

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There is a reason i asked and it went right over your head as i thought it would. The topic was friendship with women.
No offense taken. Its a matter of beliefs in the gender dynamic.
Keep in mind even when spinning i wouldnt fck so low on the scale these women would be seen as a dumpster dive to anyone i knew.
Your statements prove no point. Are you really trying to say you shouldnt have females as friends because you wouldnt bring **** buddies around friends? What kind of absurd logic is that?

I think the problem here for some of you guys is, you can't relate to having female friends so you bash it. Sorry my social life is a bit more well rounded. To each their own though.
 

Lookatu

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What I see happening in this thread is the word "friend" being lumped into one big group. There can be several levels of "friendship". I think people are not really defining that level when they are making their case, hence some confusions across the board.
 

Trojan3000

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Dude at this point im saying that if your fcking women you are to embarrassed to bring around your colleagues of either gender you have some self esteem issue or your standards are to low.
I suspect a 3rd reason by your posts but i dont think i can go there with you because your having trouble with A to B.
So C or D is really going to trip you up.
"embarassed". Brother, you are so far out your element. You think its a good idea to introduce your **** buddies to your main group of friends. I don't know what kind of weird friends with benefits zone you're in , but I don't do that. Nor do any of the guys I know. Infact, why are you on this website? You clearly don't know basic tenants of how to be a playa. You have totally exposed yourself as a dunce at this point.

The idea is to spin plates, not to lose plates because you brought them all around your friends and they started piecing together that they're just one of many girls you're ****ing, nd not to ruin any potential chances with new women your friends bring around, because now everyone has seen you with girl A, B, and C in the span of a month. Seriously man please do not give anyone on this site any advice. For their sake.

and for your own sake, here's some advice. Never bring plates around your friends or introduce them to people in your personal life who you spend time with and cherish that time with. The idea is to not make things messy, because they can get messy. They call it "spinning plates" for a reason. It's a balancing act. You don't want to throw lemons in the mix when trying to spin plates like "hm im going to juggle some lemons as i am spinning these plates, balancing them on these sticks"

I can only imagine what you're going to say next "you don't post pics of girls you're ****ing on social media??" "cmon man! are ut oo embarassed!"
 
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bat soup

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What's the phucking point of hanging out with a woman that:
1) is not your sister (is your family)
2) does not have sex with you (might be your family or might provide you an offspring or provides you respect by ultimate submission in form of sex)
3) is not your business partner (helps you to provide for your family)
4) cannot be used for more than sex (taking care of household; taking care of your offspring; doing something useful besides doing her nails?)
QUOTE]

Because I enjoy her company.
 

Trojan3000

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My wifes picture is on this forum and so is mine. Ive got nothing to hide.
Cowards hide. Im in an LTR by choice. Not necessity.
Be choosy man

My suggestion or request to you is to enjoy the happily married life and leave the advice giving to the real DJs on here. No hard feelings. You're just completely out of your element with anything you said to me. I wish you would admit that. I think you kinda did by telling me you're in a LTR. I mean it's pretty obvious by the question you asked and your responses. All t he other stuff you said is irrelevant. the irony of "don't embarass yourself further int his discussion"... ****ing hell, you're a grade A Clown.

In the history of anything related to spinning plates, I have never heard anyone suggest introducing their plates to their main friend group, which includes both males and females. That's what you call unnecessarily making things messy. ..

I'm spinning plates, im not trying to make more friends. Your advice makes no sense especially because your stance about female friends is "dont keep them".. So its even more pathetic because its a contradiction. Bringing plates around your friends , you're basically making them friends w/ benefits. I rather keep my plates as sex partners and nothing more. Enjoy wearing your dunce cap brother.
 

bat soup

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Then you have a "tool" mentality.

Lemme tell you a short story about what women think about men that are "tools":

I have a friend in work (female) she is fun, and she was a fun girl when in her middle 20's - however her charm (she is in her middle thirties) has almost passed and she dropped from strong 7 in looks to about weak 6 - upper 5 (parties, alcohol etc. also her skin never looked young) yet she thinks that she is awesome and looks young (LOL).

Now, she is incredibly entitled and good in manipulations and she convinced her brother to help her get apartment for her with her sad sad eyes so he lent her some money (enough to help her buy apartment). Guy is physical worker, handsome but rather unimpressive in intellect and cunningness or other character traits with exception to one that should be the most important - he has good heart.

So - in spite of taking friendly help from her brother which is a lot, cuz' - she still told me that her brother is a loser, cannot get better job, is stupid, easily manipulated.

So, basically speaking, she badmouthed her naive brother to me even after he helped her out of love and put her well being over his own well being (she told me he will need the money back soon and she does not have it)

The same woman rejected advances of rather unattractive but successful architect - she is in her middle thirties and getting old fast, I would not want to sleep with her even once - yet she allowed some CHAD from dating app to phuck her few times (loser type but tons of muscles) and cried that he did not want an LTR with her (lololol) - then she told me about some 40y old guy and how she played 'virgin type' game in front of him to lure him in for LTR (guy was experienced player so didn't catch the bait, targetted for ONS instead, she understood that game is over so evaded ONS).

She still has options however she was always the type that "was provided for" to some extent by other guys.

For interest provider she has a gay guy she wanted to lure into marriage (seriously) because he is well off and "like brother to her" and drives her around from time to time with his car and meet with her. For a gay guy he is very blue pill and "good guy" type.

Gay guys are often perfect target for such a social leeches like she is. They can provide them with almost everything if they are the 'conservative'/wannabe-knight types.

So instead of lying to yourself that you simply like that girl, think twice why you hang out with her (ego boost perhaps? Perhaps you really would like to sleep with her?) and what she gets from it. Because women usually use 'male friends' to boost their own ego (they feel more sexy/socially attractive and more ready and willing to spread legs for other guys).

Once you will understand that, even unconsciously for a woman, on basic level you will be just a tool for her ("You are such an awesome guy for helping me out bat soup!"), and/or just her sex battery charger for other men ("Can I make feel you sexy so you could put up better for other guys madam?") you will be repulsed by a thought that you can provide friendship to a female w/o any significant/material profits for you.

You should provide interest to females only if it promotes your own well being in a significant manner - everything else is a betachump/bootlickin'/pedestalising behaviour and you ask them to abuse you/you search for some form of consolation, instead you affirm your beta position in food chain by acting like how you act.

There's NO book type friendship between man and a woman - she needs to provide you with something of value.

Those things are money, sex, business opportunities, social connections you can use for aforementioned to profit - she should provide you with those in order for you to be 'friends' with her - I have already provided exceptions from this rule above.

If it's not on the list, you are a tool and you lie to yourself.
This is exactly the mentality I was talking about. If I'm not thinking about a woman in a sexual way and I'm not interested in ever having sex with her, then I don't care about any of that. If I enjoy her company then I'm already getting everything I want out of the situation just as I would with any other person.

You seem to think that women have some magic power over men whereby they can make men do things for them just by virtue of being women - but the truth is that if someone asks for something that you don't want to give you can just say NO. If a woman is a leech then I wouldn't hang out with her, but by the same token I wouldn't hang out with a guy that is a leech either.
 

bat soup

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Of he thinks this way he is 100% correct in his thinking. Women learn this at a VERY young age. I have a 15 yr old daughter thats starting to become a young women and she has been throwing me **** tests since she was 7.
Yes, women know how to manipulate men, but they can only do it with guys that desire them or that don't know how to say No. If there is no desire, they don't have that lever of manipulation.
 

BeExcellent

Master Don Juan
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Dec 16, 2015
Messages
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Age
55
Yes, women know how to manipulate men, but they can only do it with guys that desire them or that don't know how to say No. If there is no desire, they don't have that lever of manipulation.
Now we are getting somewhere. Absent desire what you have is cool people who enjoy hanging out and doing stuff. Was just on the phone with an Italian buddy game planning his Saturday night. He was texting me photos of all the Latinas saying hi to me from a neighborhood brasserie that we grab coffee or a ****tail at on the regular. He has taken one of the Latinas from there out (on a double date with me and my date actually)...and he’s getting together with a gal tonight who we both know who’s pretty wild so he should have fun. He wants to introduce me to a friend of his who is totally my type. So it’s just fun & social.

I’m with my children this weekend but my gang likes to check in & say hi.
 
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