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For those who deny the importance of Looks

zekko

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But when I was younger and good looking I was more of a pusśy and had less success with chicks. The more confident I got the more success I got. So things being equal looks-wise, the more confident me did better.
You're calling it confidence, but isn't it more that you know what to do now, and how to go about it? For instance, you've learned not to be a pvssy, I'm sure that counts for a lot.
 

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samspade

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You're calling it confidence, but isn't it more that you know what to do now, and how to go about it? For instance, you've learned not to be a pvssy, I'm sure that counts for a lot.
Yes, experience matters, or what one learns from experience. Some guys never learn, though. So maybe knowing how to handle women is a better way to say it.

And of course no one is completely static. It's not like I woke up one day with all of the answers and started slaying.

I find these these confidence vs. looks threads curious, mostly because "looks" usually get defined in them so broadly that they include things like how a guy carries himself - posture, attitude, personal style, etc. Things that could also be filed under confidence. It doesn't really matter to me how it's defined, but I notice the debates become kind of semantic.
 

mrgoodstuff

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We've been told that women are not visual and that personality and confidence make the difference otherwise we wouldnt as men paying dinners, buying gif or investing in women.

Its proven (see thread above) that women decide in few seconds if you are a potential partner or not, I cant get more obvious than that and while I agree its not the best thing to discover, deep down we all knew that...by that time we are in high school we know which guys are liked and which not.

Sure there are late bloomers as much as men who suddenly find a gf in their 30s but its clearly not the raw instinctual attraction that makes it worth.

Also many men lie to themselves just like women do, which is why you hear about things we can control to be more important than things we cant.

Post wall fat women thinking they are the real deal cause they got a degree and work in a firm and old angry men thinking they are peaking in their 50s and that 20 yrs old girls will get wet cause of their social position.

The fact is that we cant afford truth as a society and the more the average man see whats going on, the more the marriage rate and investment in relationships will decrease.

No man would invest time and energy in a woman that gave herself willingly and with pleasure to someone that same night cause he was hot looking which is why the cloud of bullsh1t we are fed.

Not saying that after a certain age couples cant be formed or work according to different criteria but in that case is more reasoning and planning than genuine uncontrollable attraction.
"Gave herself willingly and with pleasure". Should be anyone's goal. It means it's not forced. Not really any competition. Her lizard brain desires you.
 

Who Dares Win

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Yes, experience matters, or what one learns from experience. Some guys never learn, though. So maybe knowing how to handle women is a better way to say it.

And of course no one is completely static. It's not like I woke up one day with all of the answers and started slaying.

I find these these confidence vs. looks threads curious, mostly because "looks" usually get defined in them so broadly that they include things like how a guy carries himself - posture, attitude, personal style, etc. Things that could also be filed under confidence. It doesn't really matter to me how it's defined, but I notice the debates become kind of semantic.
Looks is what you are in terms of size, shape, symmetry and so on while what you do or how you bring yourself is not look.

Clearly a guy that walks straight is more attractive than a guy that does not, broad shoulders belong to the looks department while holding them back and low in my opinion fits more in the behaviour field.

Clothes make you look a certain way but are not part of our look, its more related to social status (wheter is wealth or profession).
Of course an armani jacket makes you look more attractive than a yellow tank top and red shorts but its cause boost your status not your height or arms.

In my experience its all about LmS, where the L is the big one and the S coming right after.


"Gave herself willingly and with pleasure". Should be anyone's goal. It means it's not forced. Not really any competition. Her lizard brain desires you.
Exactly but are we sure that a woman in her 30s that failed to secure a top dog and finally gives her self willingly to a guy she doesnt really like to settle is "willing and with pleasure"?
 

Atom Smasher

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I find these these confidence vs. looks threads curious, mostly because "looks" usually get defined in them so broadly that they include things like how a guy carries himself - posture, attitude, personal style, etc. Things that could also be filed under confidence. It doesn't really matter to me how it's defined, but I notice the debates become kind of semantic.
Men regard women's looks very objectively. Hence our hard-number ratings system which most men inherently understand. Women, on the other hand, regard men's looks subjectively. Women's perceptions and opinions are far more malleable and subject to secondary factors. One women sees a certain man as highly attractive while another woman sees the same man and is not attracted in any way, shape or form.
 
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mrgoodstuff

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Looks is what you are in terms of size, shape, symmetry and so on while what you do or how you bring yourself is not look.

Clearly a guy that walks straight is more attractive than a guy that does not, broad shoulders belong to the looks department while holding them back and low in my opinion fits more in the behaviour field.

Clothes make you look a certain way but are not part of our look, its more related to social status (wheter is wealth or profession).
Of course an armani jacket makes you look more attractive than a yellow tank top and red shorts but its cause boost your status not your height or arms.

In my experience its all about LmS, where the L is the big one and the S coming right after.



Exactly but are we sure that a woman in her 30s that failed to secure a top dog and finally gives her self willingly to a guy she doesnt really like to settle is "willing and with pleasure"?
I couldn't advise any man to be "settled for", it really is a bad deal...
 

samspade

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Men regard women's looks very objectively. Hence our hard-number ratings system which most men inherently understand. Women, on the other hand, regard men's looks subjectively. Women's perceptions and opinions are far more malleable and subject to secondary factors. One women sees a certain man as highly attractive while another woman sees the same man and is not attracted in any way, shape or form.
Agreed. I remember noticing, as a young adult, that girls would often say of the guys they were dating, "I normally wouldn't be attracted to a [fill the blank with type] but something about him was cute." It told me the guy probably did something to stand out.

Regarding the 1-10 scale...it always reminds me of a scene from The Office where Ryan is talking to his buddy on the phone about Pam. She's nearby and can hear him. Anyway he says "She'd probably be a six in New York but she's like a seven here, in Scranton." And she has this look of disgust and disappointment on her face that's priceless.
 

stringpuller

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If someone said the quality of girls they are pulling are exactly the same then that would make the argument stronger.
The idea of a "quality" girl is just that.
"Quality" girl is relative. We are all humans and we fck it up. So does she...
 

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Yes, experience matters, or what one learns from experience. Some guys never learn, though. So maybe knowing how to handle women is a better way to say it.

And of course no one is completely static. It's not like I woke up one day with all of the answers and started slaying.

I find these these confidence vs. looks threads curious, mostly because "looks" usually get defined in them so broadly that they include things like how a guy carries himself - posture, attitude, personal style, etc. Things that could also be filed under confidence. It doesn't really matter to me how it's defined, but I notice the debates become kind of semantic.
Looks->confidence. Success breeds success.
 
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Hamurabimbi

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I’ve been preaching for years that unlike how it is for women, it is utterly impossible for men to be universally attractive. Virtually all women are attracted to only a subset of men (archetypes as @stormrider puts it). Some women find muscular guys attractive, some leaner, more generally fit guys, and there are even many who are attracted to biker-types with beer bellies.

That’s why I say that men should identify their ideal type(s) and run with it.

When I personally talk about the number rating system that we generally use for women, it is shorthand as it’s difficult to identify and linguistically awkward to succinctly discuss archetypes.

Universal attraction for men is a myth. Run with your identified type and you’ll have no problem with an abundance of women. It’s almost effortless once you do this. When you do, you also become highly tuned into women’s IOIs, which so many men are normally blind to.
[/QUOTE
yes. I’ve learned I appeal to a certain type of woman. Aggressive, horny, assertive. I focus on that niche.
 

LARaiders85

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Wrong

Because you CAN do something about it. You can blackpill solutions that this forum openly disapproves of, yet will help you

For example hair transplants. A decent procedure will triple your success with women. Yet this forum tells you to man up and get an Asian girlfriend online

Fat reduction in the face. This is probably the single biggest and most underrated thing you can do to be more attractive to women. I don't mean lift, I mean actually get your fat percentage down

There's more extreme stuff that I won't go into. I will only get called a cuck. Probably a 6"2 Chad who fails to see irony

I've seen both sides of the coin. I've been the c0cky redpill guy with a receding hairline and got laid. And I've been the blackpill guy who looksmaxed out and got laid

Both are successful. But if you want MAXIMUM success you need to take both of them

Yet for some reason this forum totally discredits looks. And it's borderline retarded
Most guys just want a girlfriend, period. Increasing your looks and just shifting the goal posts from whatever your target range is to a higher range is not going to necessarily help you do that and could actually make it much more difficult because more attractive women are more difficult. your pride based on the physical appearance of your superficial conquests might go up but you are not going to be that much more successful in the long run. Most guys here are more concerned with the long run.

Guys that are not even in the dating market but just rely on their own large subcultures of friends are pay zero attention to their looks are going to be a lot more content and successful than someone trying to run the dating rat race. If you don't believe me then just look at everyone running the rat race here in this group.

In hindsight I attracted plenty of women just for... existing. I was just too clueless to know how to follow through with that. Sure I get a lot more validation from women because I've improved my looks quite a bit (controlling for aging) but it was never really necessary for my long term purposes and as Atom smasher said elsewhere it actually can make you seem vain and intimidate some women. Of course now that I'm on the hamster wheel I can't really get off.
 
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ragnarP

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I didn't need this video or the internet to figure out that human beings find good looking human beings more attractive. What's next? We prefer cars that look good?? Whoa!!

No doubt women responded to me differently after a solid 2 years of lifting weights but my outcomes with women didn't improve a lot until I read the rational male and swallowed and started to digest the red pill. In other words I have changed my beliefs about inter-sexual dynamics.

Also what about dudes like Todd v and even back in the day like Neil Strauss or Mystery? They are not exactly ripped them self tho?
 

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Random thought...I'd guess that the majority of men on sites like Sosuave, Bodybuilding, AskTRP, etc., etc., are either above average in looks or okay lookswise and take good care of their bodies.

That is, it's probably rare that a man who's hopelessly ugly, obese, or otherwise unattractive might come here. Maybe I'm wrong. To be solipsistic for a moment, I came here years ago because I knew I was above average and couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. I wonder how many other men did the same thing. So maybe it becomes an echo chamber of "looks aren't as important."
 

stringpuller

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interesting thread.

What I have seen of this is that slovic and asian have large groups of VERY POOR money wise. in my opinion women are looking for status/power & sex/emotional. For the short game, the impression can be that western man is or will be rich. That stereotype is still real in the deep provinces. That means instant top of the chart for a westerner for power and status(all the friends of girl are impressed that she will be rich). Emotional because she feels good about the status. Now the truth is that most western dude doing this are not rich and the girl will figure that out and not be as happy. But the initial reaction is still, that he must be. If the guy is decent physical it can fly. Lots of abuse comes from these setups, in both directions.

Don't know about today.. but 20 or 30 years ago could achieve the same by going to small town usa.

Things have really changed for the younger ones. I have many associates and relatives in the less than 40 years old and many in the less than 30. The culture has changed at a very deep level in ways not exactly like we think. Social Media has skew the value of looks up higher. Much higher. The emotional impact of the visual media is overwhelming to the women now. It used to be the PTA group of girls... now it is whole city or larger comparing with each other.
Interesting take. Things have changed. Its not so easy anymore to get into the states.
And if a foreign girl is smart enough she can figure out what you are and where you come from fairly quickly.
You would be quite surprised how many men are committing marriage fraud to get visas. Not just the ladies.

Status plays a part from pigmy tribes to elite family orders. Its an animal/human thing.
 
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Who Dares Win

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Random thought...I'd guess that the majority of men on sites like Sosuave, Bodybuilding, AskTRP, etc., etc., are either above average in looks or okay lookswise and take good care of their bodies.

That is, it's probably rare that a man who's hopelessly ugly, obese, or otherwise unattractive might come here. Maybe I'm wrong. To be solipsistic for a moment, I came here years ago because I knew I was above average and couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. I wonder how many other men did the same thing. So maybe it becomes an echo chamber of "looks aren't as important."
For an ugly guy to correctly asses his value it takes to be cold as ice, everyone has self protective bias in order not to accept that we may lack something especially when it comes of things we cant control.

Which is why its full of short men, bald men, older men in any bootcamp run from scammer who sell "special techniques" to pick up women based on "game", confidence or anything beside it that only takes a weekend of work.

It works for women too of course, when they say that they are strong independant women they really believe that such things make them attractive for men while none of them realize that post wall women or fat women are ignored for reasons quite different than being intimidating to men.

I strongly support all the suggestions given about hitting the gym, getting a decent haircut or to shave when necessary as much as improving our status and income, thats probably the suggestion that should be given to guys in their 20s to motivate them to work hard.

The toxic advices are the "be yourself" ones heard from their mom, the "be confident" ones heard from pick up gurus or worse yet something we still hear in this boars "relax bro you will peak in your 40s and 50s enjoy the ride and women will chase you".

Any worth goal requires sufference and work right after we accept our weak points, its up to the person to establish if they want to improve (not necessarily to get women) or not, I have total respect for a guy that say that he is fine being fat cause he likes to eat without coming up with excuses.

Ps. every user in this forum (or in the internet) is a millionare, above average height, ripped and hunted from virgins in their 20s despite being 50...hard to say if cause of their 160+ IQ or mansion where they work as athlete rockstars.
The only ones with a bad hairline its mike32 and me btw and espi which is bald, everyone else is like brad pitt with wigs.
 

Lynx nkaf

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For an ugly guy to correctly asses his value it takes to be cold as ice, everyone has self protective bias in order not to accept that we may lack something especially when it comes of things we cant control.

Which is why its full of short men, bald men, older men in any bootcamp run from scammer who sell "special techniques" to pick up women based on "game", confidence or anything beside it that only takes a weekend of work.

It works for women too of course, when they say that they are strong independant women they really believe that such things make them attractive for men while none of them realize that post wall women or fat women are ignored for reasons quite different than being intimidating to men.

I strongly support all the suggestions given about hitting the gym, getting a decent haircut or to shave when necessary as much as improving our status and income, thats probably the suggestion that should be given to guys in their 20s to motivate them to work hard.

The toxic advices are the "be yourself" ones heard from their mom, the "be confident" ones heard from pick up gurus or worse yet something we still hear in this boars "relax bro you will peak in your 40s and 50s enjoy the ride and women will chase you".

Any worth goal requires sufference and work right after we accept our weak points, its up to the person to establish if they want to improve (not necessarily to get women) or not, I have total respect for a guy that say that he is fine being fat cause he likes to eat without coming up with excuses.

Ps. every user in this forum (or in the internet) is a millionare, above average height, ripped and hunted from virgins in their 20s despite being 50...hard to say if cause of their 160+ IQ or mansion where they work as athlete rockstars.
The only ones with a bad hairline its mike32 and me btw and espi which is bald, everyone else is like brad pitt with wigs.
lol, good perspectives, your hairline may be receding but you said you have a cool thug face so that will still attract women looking for 'bodyguard' security.
lol, on the being alright with fat people saying they love food. and that's why they're fat.
I'm alright with people like that too because they are realists, truth-tellers.

I don't know how it happened but I have completely lost my cravings for junk food after watching all those omegle girls' reactions. I've seen lots of media showing men's reactions to HBs but never girls on a fit muscular guy. Try to tell me that wasn't 100% mental decision. My brain is female but I think like/I am like a man. Biochemistry is ****ed by environment.
 

Who Dares Win

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lol, good perspectives, your hairline may be receding but you said you have a cool thug face so that will still attract women looking for 'bodyguard' security.
lol, on the being alright with fat people saying they love food. and that's why they're fat.
I'm alright with people like that too because they are realists, truth-tellers.

I don't know how it happened but I have completely lost my cravings for junk food after watching all those omegle girls' reactions. I've seen lots of media showing men's reactions to HBs but never girls on a fit muscular guy. Try to tell me that wasn't 100% mental decision. My brain is female but I think like/I am like a man. Biochemistry is ****ed by environment.
Those video should be shown to kids instead of filling their heads with lies about waiting for the love coming whos gonna love them for what they are...as if a lazy fat fvck could be loved for being lazy and fat.

Well yeah I look like an estern european mobster thats probably the only thing that save me from my nw2-3 hairline but still hair are one of the few things that demand even more to work on your body.

Regarding junk food yeah those cravings bypass our conscious brain quite often therefore it needs a deep input to balance it...no one quits junk food cause the doctor tells them that they could get a stroke in their 60s, we all do cause we see those greek statues and we like being like them close to perfection.
 

Lynx nkaf

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Those video should be shown to kids instead of filling their heads with lies about waiting for the love coming whos gonna love them for what they are...as if a lazy fat fvck could be loved for being lazy and fat.

Well yeah I look like an estern european mobster thats probably the only thing that save me from my nw2-3 hairline but still hair are one of the few things that demand even more to work on your body.

Regarding junk food yeah those cravings bypass our conscious brain quite often therefore it needs a deep input to balance it...no one quits junk food cause the doctor tells them that they could get a stroke in their 60s, we all do cause we see those greek statues and we like being like them close to perfection.
thanks, hey. I even have a reg. dietitian and this is what freed me from the cravings. It was good money I was spending on junk food too. Ridiculous, I feel like I dropped shackles. Free from prison, something clicked off in my mind about the food selfabuse. Weird.

Also, that high school sweetheart(the alphawidow maker that wanted children) is Polish with a look like the 90's Hetfield guy from Metall ica.
Very unique looking dude, more rough looking than prettyboy, you know?
So your look works for some girls.

I hope we can see that video more a few months from now.
I might resurrect this thread with a bump for a nice little reminder.
 

zekko

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