Dropping a girl because of too many orbiters, good idea?

[bigneil]

This works fine if you're lookin' to simply have some fun, I agree. But when you want sth deeper and LTR type, you cannot just say "hey babe, go do whatever you feel like, **** my feelings, **** the kids, **** our living together, go find yourself" LOL

No, but when you do this for the first 4 months they start to fall in love and then they start bringing up love, commitment, etc.

Indeed the biggest problem is kids. The State essentially enslaves men to the mothers of (we hope) his children.

 

[lizardking82]

Actually giving women space is what you should always do. Your feelings, the kids, living together - all those things can easily be seen as prison. The last thing you want to do is make a woman feel trapped. Why would you want to stay married to a woman who WANTS to stray anyway?

If you feel like you NEED to tell her to stay, then the relationship is already over.

No, no. I am not saying you should need to tell her to stay or you should force her to stay. I am just saying, there are situations where you cannot just take it all easy just like that, that's all

 

[Muscle brain]

To me, it's not about buying into her frame. It's more like it's a fantasy to think you can re-frame a hot woman who probably already had those male orbiters before you even arrived. The average sosuaver isn't going to re-frame anyone. Especially if she is an HB 8+. Most guys here can't even stay away from attention wh0res. The average sticking point thread on this site goes like "I met this chick, she busts my balls all the time, keeps adding guys on instagram, makes fun of me in public, is she a keeper?"

I used to date a 9 who got me into an average of 3 "almost fights" every time we went out. She was always busting other dude's balls. Then she expects me to defend her. One day I had enough (or perhaps I didn't want to get my ass kicked) and decided to join 3 guys she was antagonizing on a pool table. I joined them in their laughter of her. This was when she broke up with me, but in reality, I was just looking for a way out. Her type was the bad ass bar brawler type, and I wasn't him.

The lesson I learned a long time ago is that with most attractive women, there are things that comes with the territory. MOST of them have issues. THEY WILL GIVE YOU SOME DEGREE OF SH!T.

What are you going to do, next them all?

And let's get real, you are not going to re-frame any woman who is a 7.5 and above. Those women have been elevated to near celebrity status with the social media culture.

You have two choices: Either wait around for your unicorn, or put up with some degree of attention wh0ring and not take women too seriously.

That's why I said things are more outside your control than you think they are. It's a fantasy to think you can control an attractive woman in this day and age.

The best attitude you can have is setting her free because you don't need her. Paradoxically, this will more likely keep her loyal. I am speaking from personal experience. The highest form of confidence is setting women free.

If you don't believe me and you happen to date an attractive woman, start to act controlling. Try to re-frame her. She will cheat on you within a week. There are way too many options out there for her to accept restrictions.

I already said in another thread that most women are either insecure or entitled. Having male orbiters is one of the manifestations of these emotional issues. You can't be willing to date these women and complain about their nature when you've already read about it 1000 times on sosuave.

Like Anti-Dump used to say (back when there were more quality women), you BUY a relationship. You don't build one. You pick a woman who already has everything you want. You don't pick a broken woman and try to fix her. In the same way, you don't go to a car dealership and pick a piece of junk and try to fix it. You are not a mechanic and wouldn't know the first thing about fixing something as complex as a car (or a woman's warped psyche).

Well Said. Make Sense

 

[Muscle brain]

As much as I hate to admit it, girls with a lot of orbiters irritate me tremendously. I have been seeing this girl recently and she has many good qualities, but the fact that she is entertaining attention from all these "friends" is something that just bothers me.

Are they getting anywhere with her? To my knowledge, no. Am I? Yes. But the fact that she won't completely cut these guys off makes me suspicious that she will eventually monkey branch onto one, or just outright cheat on me. This comes off as very insecure and beta, but I can't seem to eliminate this doubt from my mind. With how fickle women are, it just takes being in the right place at the right time for an orbiter to bust through.

So, I think I'm going to have to abandon ship on this girl, but I just wanted to ask you guys, is this a stupid reason to drop her? I outright negged one of these "friends" in a text conversation with her and I could tell immediately that she noticed I was butthurt and insecure about it.

I would go No Contact but so many attractive girls play this same game, so it seems like you can't escape it no matter where you look.

Women are the most awkward creature you will ever meet on this Planet!
They LIE in your Face Cheat, Change the Names of Dudes in their Phone to Steffanie or Caroline. BANG Around and don´t give a Fuxkxng Shxt about what you think.
I Train 5 times a week in the Gym and count my Macros everyday since years.
Let me tell you this, I have HB7.5 To HB9.5 coming to my Place and telling me:
"My Boyfriend get on my nerves Please Fxck The Shxt Out of me"
Like it´s nothing. My advice to you is Never Trust a Girl when it comes to Males Friends. Never, Ever, Ever.
Girls Are Xsual and Love the "D". If it is not you it´s Somebody Else who will give it to Her. Simple as That.
Girls Just Want to have Fun

 

[lizardking82]

You should always take it easy. You should always feel confident, as if you've got nothing to lose. This is how you make women want to capture you. You are supposed to be a free bird, not a bird desperate to fly into women's cages. The test every guy fails is the congruency test when he is in a relationship. If you were free and easy going and confident that she won't stray in the first month of the relationship, why would you be more controlling and needy when you've been together?

This phenomenon is the REASON why a relationship fails. Whoever you were in the beginning is the man she is attracted to. You can't put up a front and pretend to have abundance and be willing to walk away any time to suddenly trying to control her. You have to be congruent throughout the entire relationship. She might have opportunities with other guys along the way. That is something you can't control. If anything, you should dare her to cheat on you. She'd be doing you a favor. That's the correct frame to have. I am not going to beg anyone to stay with me. And the train keeps moving forward whether or not she wants to come a long for the ride. The day she wants to leave me, I will pack her bags myself.

The fact that I need to control a woman means she isn't really all that into me. In which case, I am better off without her.

This is old school DJ advice, but the focus is on me, not her. This is my journey towards greatness. I am not going to beg any woman to come along for the ride. I have no fear of them leaving me whatsoever. It is their lost.

The most attractive guy is the guy who has no fear of women leaving him. In fact, he dares them. It saves him from having to filter women out.

A woman straying is failing your test. You would rather see her true feelings than believe beautiful lies.

And again, I totally agree. We should take it easy, but sometimes, after developing feelings and chemistry with someone, it is physically and psychologically almost impossible to just vanish like that if they don't want you anymore. It's chemical reactions happening inside of you, your brain is intertwined with this person if you guys stayed together for about a year or more and I wish some guy here could tell me that they were able to just flip the script and walk away just like that on someone they really were connected with. I am not saying it's impossible, but if you do it, you probably have reached the "feelingless" stage and I don';t know if that's good or bad

 

[bigneil]

I see it differently. She is totally free to hang around with other men that want to fvck her, or she can have me committed to her.

She CANNOT have both.

Either she wants a relationship with me and the sacrifices it entails, or she does not. Either way I get what I want, freedom to fvk who I want, or a girl who has a level of respect for what a relationship actually is.

Getting anything less than what you want means she is getting more of what she wants, at your expense.

This implies she is better (otherwise you wouldn't worry because you have better than her) and it implies she must make a sacrifice to have you. Why charge her? If you have other women, go with them if she is hanging out with guy friends too much. If she wants to have sex with another man and she likes him better than you (often even just in that moment), she will. The best we can do is A) Have options, B) Not commit and C) Only stay with women who are pursuing us (i.e. doing 80% of the text initiating).

After 7 months of the best sex I've had in years, I'm thinking I'm getting spoiled and am better off alone, so I have that attitude. If she leaves me? Great!

As men, we only need sex once a month or so. Too much is like a drug addiction (i.e. an addiction to a woman).

 

[bigneil]

I see it differently. She is totally free to hang around with other men that want to fvck her, or she can have me committed to her..

You definitely don't want to date a stripper then.

I used to be like you but dating strippers for 5 years makes you detach from 99% of jealousy (we're still human so it still can happen). I've never had the girl meet someone a the club where it directly interfered. It's not that common. They call it work. Ask them if they ever had an orgasm at the club and they will say "HELL NO!".

She chose you because you are on her level, and not many guys are. Being afraid of her cheating increases the likelihood of her cheating by implying weakness.

Remember: for any hot girl: All her life she has been hanging around with other men that want to fvck her! That's why you liked her in the first place. You wanted to also. Demanding commitments is what makes relationships fail.

Accept that she might leave you. You need to be happy either way. Once you become attached to an outcome, you are in debt.

 

[bigneil]

When you have abundance, your frame completely changes and you view women leaving you as a favor. Fears of her cheating on you or branch swinging to another guy doesn't exist. Incidentally, this is the frame that keeps her loyal in the first place. It is something only guys in a relationship with a hot woman can understand.

Exactly. when you get a few dates in one week you actually want to cancel a couple, even with girls you like. A lot of guys here have never tried to cancel a date. Last week I just sent a letter sort of calling her on her BS and it implied we might not go out, and my girlfriend sent 3 texts and 2 emails, two saying "Why won't you talk to me?" and "What is wrong??". Actually being weary from a recent move, I responded and said "How about another night?" and she said "What the flying f*ck is going on??" (I never saw her that angry). We had sex 6 times that night.

 

[devilkingx2]

and it implies she must make a sacrifice to have you.

being in a relationship is a sacrifice, that's what a commitment is

 

[bigneil]

being in a relationship is a sacrifice, that's what a commitment is

A man is supposed to approach from a position of unlimited generosity. She offers the commitment to restrict him, not the other way around. No girl who has to be forced to commit will ever truly commit. Even if they would have, the simple act of restricting them ruins it.

The leverage you have comes by virtue of her thinking "He'll leave me if I do XYZ so I better not". That means she must believe you can get better or she won't commit.

For this reason, a man in the US can never get married because she no longer has to play nice. He has absolutely no say, which has ruined the family household. The powers that be, wanting to make sure real men couldn't rule as they always had, put the household and family under the jurisdiction of the most unstable force in the universe: whatever makes a woman happy in that moment.

 

[lizardking82]

Whoever she was friends with before I arrived is her own social life. I want her to have her own life. I don't want her to make me her life. That is needy and repulsive to me.

Then you are going to have to deal with "independent" and non submissive girls. Biologically speaking, a woman's life is centered around her female friends, her job that is probably something social and her 2-3 hobbies. They're not the ones that go out making discoveries and creating ****. Men do that, we have been doing that for a long time. Or, you can date this type of woman, but then you have to be more on your feminine because you ain't leading that girl anyhow. I have seen and talked to "independent" women trynna live life like a man and because I am a masculine man, not attracted to them in the first. And again, don't get me wrong: I am not saying a woman should be hobbiless, jobless and anything else-less and just love you and that's it. However, biologically speaking, men thrive into their mission/purpose and women help them achieve that.

 

[bigneil]

I seduced my girlfriend as her photographer. My attempt has always been to capture her beauty and to make her eternally famous. This is something that will most certainly mean she leaves me if it happens. Therefore, in a way, my goal is to have so many other men meet her that she is guaranteed to find someone better. Why would I do it? Because I'm an artist who will also become famous in the process. Mine could be described as the precise opposite strategy many here are suggesting by asking women to avoid men who like them. And my strategy has led to great things. Restricting women tends to lead to being single. Asking for commitments turns women off because it is feminine behavior.

 

[NSX-R]

I had a conversation with a female friend of mine recently and she told me why it's better to hang out with boys.
These are her words. Women can get offended all the time if you say anything but guys are more relaxed and you can have fun with them without worrying if this offends them or not. Also ,many women compete against the other women in their circle , and it creates hatred, fights and most of them are talking shyt about the other. It's not a chill atmosphere as it is usually with guys.

Still it can be considered a red flag when a girl has a lot of male friends, it depends on the individual if that's true or not. I wouldn't next her so easily. Some shyt tests from you might be a requirement to see if she's loyal to you or not.

 

[bigneil]

Who said I was worrying? And I am not changing her, she has to choose to change herself.

I come from a position of strength because I do not care which way she goes. I just know the rules of being in my life.

The position you advocate is to let her do what she wants or you may lose her. I say best to lose a woman who chooses to disrespect the relationship.

You must be worrying if you are restricting her. Would you tell her not to eat dog poop? Would you follow her around and spy on her and say you just wanted to be certain she didn't eat any dog poop when she was away? We only restrict things we think are likely to happen (they become self-fulfilling prophecies because we come off as the lonely loser who fears losing again).

So you are insisting she choose to change herself? Good luck with that one.

But again, more strawman arguments from your side, which ALWAYS mirror the women's argument. And yet you truly believe you are NOT operating from her frame. #mindblowing

What woman's argument?

You are demanding commitments which is pure feminine behavior and calling me feminine for seeking masculine freedom?

 

[lizardking82]

This hasn't been my experience at all man. I have been in tons of relationships and have slept with hundreds more. The one thing I can't stand is a woman who is needy and hobbiless. I don't care about any manosphere advice. It doesn't correlate with my actual real life experience. My last serious GF was really into salsa dancing, physical fitness, etc. She had a life of her own. In fact, the reason why I chose her was because she wasn't needy and waiting around for a guy to complete her. A free spirited woman is the most attractive woman (to me). This is because I have been with enough needy women to know what my taste is. She was also very submissive and supportive as well. I guess I would like to add the caveat that she was latina. In my experience, nothing in the manosphere applies to latina women. They know how to be feminine in a relationship. When I look at her, she turns into a giddy 5 year old.

My advice is get off the manosphere and date some real life women man. And refrain from trying to give advice to a guy with 10 years experience with women. Especially if you are going to throw manosphere dogma at him (that doesn't even resonate with his real life experience). Your only choices aren't hobbiless needy women or ball busting feminists. You are not stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Am I describing a unicorn chick after spending all of my time talking about how 90% of women are either insecure or entitled? Yes. My last serious relationship was with a unicorn chick. A top 10% female. That's what I settle for and commit to. If you think all women either adopt your purpose or try to challenge you, then you lack experience. There is such thing as balance. I support her, and she supports me. I don't have to dominate her and make her life everything about me. To me, that's not even an attractive person to be around. I want her to have her own personality and life. If you have never been around beautiful women, then you don't know the extent of how needy they can be. It is absolutely repulsive.

Do you intentionally skip parts of my posts or misread them? I clearly and intentionally stated that I am not attracted either by a woman with no life and no hobbies. However, this has nothing to do with manosphere dogma. This is simple biology and biology does not give a **** whether it's called manosphere dogma or feminist dogma or whatever. I am not giving you advice, I am having a conversation with you and we're sharing our points of view and ideas. That's all

 

[lizardking82]

"Then you are going to deal with independent and non submissive girls." That's what 99% of manosphere guys are always clamoring about. Being independent doesn't always equate to being non submissive. It can. But doesn't always. The fact that you said "You are going to have to deal with" implies I don't already have 10 years experience with women. Who are you telling? It doesn't seem like you are sharing ideas to me. It looks like you assume you know what I have experience, and you are way off. Let me ask you a question, is what you are saying to me coming from life experience? If so, give me an example. Not biology theories.

You must be one of those guys who just loves to write and read his own stuff so much that he doesn't give a **** what other people have to say. I specifically said that because I have dated "independent and strong and free" women and those women, in huge numbers, are simply in an imaginary world of their own where they are the man, the leader, the moneyearner. However, they fail to naturally behave like that cause it goes against their nature. And biology theories are not something you overlook LOL I mean, do you really think I am gonna trust you, a guy I have never and will never meet over proven, tried and tested biology that is a SCIENCE?

Here is the difference between you and biology: I have seen and see biology work in real life in hundreds of cases. I have never seen you work in real life. Of course there are exceptions, but I cannot base my arguments in exceptions.

 

[lizardking82]

Lol. What do I have to do with anything? I am not asking you to trust me. I couldn't care less if you trusted me or not. Nor do I care about your biology theories. When you have experience, that's really all that matters.

I have experienced the best relationships with independent women who have been submissive. You have not. I am simply showing you one doesn't always lead to the other. You can believe me if you want. I really have nothing to gain from you believing me.

In fact, I am not even trying to have an argument. I am simply expressing my experience. It was you who said "Then you are going to have to deal with independent and non-submissive women" when I said I prefer women who have their own lives and hobbies before I show up. I don't want to be a center of a woman's life. Your statement simply does not resonate with my experience at all. In my experience, I have more problems with no-life women.

And you think I have not experienced relationships and dates with independent and submissive women? But that's not what we're talkin' here and we're way off topic anyways. My last girlfriend was 19 and she was more independent than a lot of other women will be in their 40s ever. But that is still not the point. LOL I speak based on my experiences, but forgetting and ignoring how the human nature is and how biology works is just not wise

 

[lizardking82]

I honestly don't think you have a point. This "derailment" all came from me saying how I prefer free spirited, independent women because they are attractive to me. And then you suggest I will have to deal with being non submissive because of biology, which doesn't ring true to me at all. Then you suggested because of biology, a man is supposed to be about his purpose and a woman adopts his purpose. Again, sounds more like manosphere lingo. In real life, there is a balance. I have never been happy in a relationship where the woman adopted my purpose. If anything, I need my space. I am not one of those guys who need to be around a woman all the time. I prefer she has her own purpose in life.

Then maybe we have a different understanding and perception of the word independent. Independence is something women have not really been used to up until 50 years ago and a lot of the young girls nowadays are just headless chicks running around yelling about their independence and some more rights while they know not about any kind of responsibility because this landscape is something completely new to them.

What I was trying to explain was that independent and strong women usually are running **** and those type of women are doing manly stuff. When they are like that, it is tough (not impossible) for them to be compatible with a masculine guy. Do you understand this much? There is no manosphere bull**** here, just simple things everyone that can read understands.

Now, maybe you are more of a soft, quiet and a bit more on your feminine kinda guy. I got no problem with that. I am not gonna demean that in any kinda way, but that is practically the only way how I see a strong and independent woman having a good relationship with a man. You cannot have two ****s in the relationship. There is one ****, one *****. The car has one driver, etc.

That is and was my only point. I didn't threaten your track record of a 1000 or 5000 women. I don't care about that. It is not about the numbers, it is about what you learn from dating. I can date 50 women and learn what you learned from a 1000.

Anyways, I am out of this since it doesn't even make sense to continue it anymore LOL

 

[BeExcellent]

It's funny. I was married to a man who placed no restrictions on me whatsoever. And I was the girl everybody wanted. He was intriguing to me. Reserved in the midst of the chaos that is the nightlife. As the owner of the IT venue in town he could have hot girls right left & center but he wanted substance too. That's harder to find. He did exactly what @da dynamically talks about. He simply observed who I was beyond my looks and my body and he liked what he found. I loved that he was never jealous; never insecure; never concerned about other men...he knew I was intrigued by him and that was all that mattered.

Things fell apart when it became apparent that he wouldnt lead or persevere when crisis happened in his life. It is impossible to support or follow someone who quits and won't get up when the chips are down. And so the roles flipped because I was not going to see my and my family's life end up in ruins. So am I strong & independent? You bet. I was loyal and stayed years longer than I should have but there were others to consider ahead of myself.

You see a healthy variety of a strong & independent woman has strength of character. She appreciates a man who is stronger than she is and therefore worthy of her submission. For him she is delighted to defer and embrace the feminine role. She is delighted for him to have the masculine role; the leadership role in relationship. She is also willing to help him in crisis...but he must never fail in his willingness to help himself. And if his health fails through no fault of his own? A good woman will stay by your side. Look at Michael J. Fox and his wife Tracy. Look at Christopher Reeves.

It is like dance. A great woman dancer should not dance with a mediocre man as the lead. If she has more skill than he does she will end up leading the dance, and that is unnatural. It also creates in her bad habits that annoy truly great male dancers, because if she learns she must lead the dance, she forgets how to be a great follow. So then when she does dance with a great male lead she trys to lead him herself...and this is off-putting to the man and frustrating for all involved. So women who are the best will wait for a worthy partner, both in dance and in life.

The issue really self sufficient & self assured women run into might be seen as a narrowing of the pool of men to whom they will entertain as potential partners; but there is ALWAYS abundance for such women because they are the women the best men seek.

And the best men have realized that looks are NOT everything. The best men hold out for women who are the total package. Those women exist. My money says that's who @da dynamically chose from and that is who Mrs da dynamically is, a total package kind of woman who other men would be proud to have.

Total package women are rare and have ridiculous choice. Therefore they can afford to be selective.

Be the sort of man who can appeal to this sort of woman and everything da dynamically is saying will be as obvious as the nose on your face.

 

[bigneil]

In a relationship, if you are feminine, the woman will take the masculine role. But if you are masculine, the woman will take the feminine role. This even happens in gay relationships.

So true! I recently watched this first hand. I took my girlfriend to my other strip club (where she had never been) and bought her a table dance. My girlfriend is super lady-like, wears flowery dresses, braids her hair, my mom loved her, etc. But she is bisexual. As soon as the other girl started dancing for her, I noticed my girlfriends legs spread wide open and she started acting like a man around the other girl! In 6 months I had never observed her act masculine. She obviously would have had I ever acted feminine!