Don't Bully Incels

[RickTheToad]

So he was raised by a single mother. His mother died in high school. We were good friends in high school and a piece of him died with her. Before she died he was popular with the ladies. After her death he become obese and sheltered himself indoors. He drowned himself in escapist videos games like World of WarCraft. He blew through the insurance money and got kicked out of college.

I beg him to go to the gym with me. I even drove to his house and made him jog around the block. He just doesn't have the discipline to go to the gym. I think he is secretly afraid of being judged. I have to take breaks from him because the more I try to help him the more he rages out on me. I don't want to fight this guy so I try to be understanding of his rage issues and just take a break from contacting him.

The common thread with most incels is pride and fear of rejection. Their egos are so fragile that they cant handle failure. They cant handle failure in the gym or with women. So they just delve into escapism and online dating. They match with women that they never intend to meet. Btw this guy makes good money...so he really has no excuse not to have a good gym membership.

He needs to speak to a therapist. That's what the dude needs. Sorry about his family life. It sucks, but he shouldn't had been given all that dough w/o supervision. You are a good dude, but you're not captain save a dude. He needs to hit rock bottom and seek a professional to talk to.

 

[greatsnake]

Some guys well never snap out of the square they’re in, no matter how bad it gets for them, but To others, some tragic experience(s) will make them snap out of it. The difference between these two are the choices that they make and their desire to become better.

 

[lamath]

you understanding of bullies is what is told to kids to feel good , sorry for that . Bullies are just like any creatures trying to dominate the weaker ones, the only different is that their parents didnt tell them this is "wrong" so they just follow their instinct
bullies choose victims who are not popular, or lonely as they are easer target for them than popular kids. incels usually fall into the first category
Weakness invite attack

Obv ppl getting bullied are inviting it nothing new there.
However the choice to be a bully or not is yours.
And if you decide act in hat way the reason are obvious to me and its not to help your fellow man be stronger.

Ppl actig that way are doing it for validation and choosin the easiest target to do so.
Someone secure in himself dont need that kind of validation.

 

[redskinsfan92]

He needs to speak to a therapist. That's what the dude needs. Sorry about his family life. It sucks, but he shouldn't had been given all that dough w/o supervision. You are a good dude, but you're not captain save a dude. He needs to hit rock bottom and seek a professional to talk to.

I seriously have no faith or trust in therapists.

 

[redskinsfan92]

I have controversial views on "bullying," but that topic aside, if someone is having the INCEL label involuntarily placed upon him, by others, I'll agree that's abusive. However, the person who voluntarily embraces the INCEL label, for himself, is inviting correction, and has no right to complain about the degree of harshness that correction takes. Sure, the self-described INCEL in question may never have hurt anyone but himself, and may never hurt anyone but himself, but accepting the label endorses the dark philosophy that comes with it, and deserves the harshest criticism.

If there's someone here who wants to call HIMSELF a "non-offending serial killer" or "non-offending pedophile," no-one is under obligation to withhold criticism, just because criticizing pedophilia and serial murder might offend a psychologically fragile person who's embraced that way of thinking.

I find it odd that, instead of uniting against a dark philosophy, one proven to harm both those who embrace it and innocent bystanders, many are choosing to attack those calling it out as "bullies." I'm not so thin-skinned as to take personal offense, but I do feel obliged to call attention to the inversion of priorities I'm witnessing. Just saying....

I should have been more clear with incel. I think of more of the "virgin" such as myself who does not embrace the label. Of course personally nothing in my life is involuntary at the moment. I am in the work on myself and don't worry about women stage at the moment. I just think there is men like myself (before discovering this forum and other helpful material) that are ready to put in work to improve themselves, but just don't know where to start and what to improve. They will find zero help in the mainstream. I know from experience.

My life has improved drastically. My mindset is 100% better than before. I was so fed up, angry, and frustrated. Not because of entitlement. Not because I was lazy. I simply didn't know what to do. Now, I know. Now I learn. The Book of Pook, The Rational Male, this forum, and its members have helped me more than any of you know.

 

[lamath]

I have controversial views on "bullying," but that topic aside, if someone is having the INCEL label involuntarily placed upon him, by others, I'll agree that's abusive. However, the person who voluntarily embraces the INCEL label, for himself, is inviting correction, and has no right to complain about the degree of harshness that correction takes. Sure, the self-described INCEL in question may never have hurt anyone but himself, and may never hurt anyone but himself, but accepting the label endorses the dark philosophy that comes with it, and deserves the harshest criticism.

I completely agree with this, my post was about bullying in general.
Imo not many incel place that label.and philosophy upon themself.
There might be some excepton but in general bullying never bring good result. Bullying incel that how create serial killer like the Toronto driver who ram and killed a few ppl.

 

[corrector]

and partly that they otherized girls to a completely unrelatable degree. Probably too much masturbation and porn, before it was "cool"/normalized, as it seems to be with those who grew up on the internet.

You are saying they "otherized" girls, or they weren't like your borderline friend that managed to get traction because he was tall, muscular, relatively good looking and had a masculine job? It's one or the other, you can't have both. One could argue if they got traction in the first place they would be less into masturbation and porn, or that the other "borderline" friend was just as into that as they were but he had traction which was independent of that.

 

[corrector]

So he was raised by a single mother. His mother died in high school. We were good friends in high school and a piece of him died with her. Before she died he was popular with the ladies. After her death he become obese and sheltered himself indoors. He drowned himself in escapist videos games like World of WarCraft. He blew through the insurance money and got kicked out of college.

That is unfortunate, but that is one person. It sounds like he has problems coping with such a loss.

I have a father but that doesn't stop me from being quasi-incel.

I beg him to go to the gym with me. I even drove to his house and made him jog around the block. He just doesn't have the discipline to go to the gym. I think he is secretly afraid of being judged. I have to take breaks from him because the more I try to help him the more he rages out on me. I don't want to fight this guy so I try to be understanding of his rage issues and just take a break from contacting him.

I go to the Gym many times. In fact, people on this board advise me not to approach women in the Gym because they usually go to the next machine away from me if I'm too close. I probably get judged all the time but I don't care about that. I also do biking and other types of exercise and am very concerned about my health and keeping a balance. Who wants to get sick right?

The common thread with most incels is pride and fear of rejection. Their egos are so fragile that they cant handle failure. They cant handle failure in the gym or with women. So they just delve into escapism and online dating. They match with women that they never intend to meet. Btw this guy makes good money...so he really has no excuse not to have a good gym membership.

I handle failure all the time and do not do online dating as that was tried in the past and didn't work out overall that well What I do have is some limited escapism in the form of watching movies and TV-shows in a rather penetrative sort of way. I do not make good money and am on a wing and a prayer so I probably have more excuses than your friend but I still have a Gym membership.

 

[corrector]

Some guys are just uncomfortable around girls.

You mean uncomfortable around girls, or not having traction with girls?

Porn leads to objectification, and masturbation leads to a loss of masculine vigor. That used to be common knowledge, when I was a kid. It certainly doesn't help.

If there is nothing to lose, in the "women's department", then it doesn't hurt either?

Their hobbies were insular, to say the least. Not conducive to developing broad social skills, though they seemed friendly enough.

Do I think they were born lost causes? No.

What hobbies develop broad social skills?

 

[Pandora]

That is unfortunate, but that is one person. It sounds like he has problems coping with such a loss.

I have a father but that doesn't stop me from being quasi-incel.



I go to the Gym many times. In fact, people on this board advise me not to approach women in the Gym because they usually go to the next machine away from me if I'm too close. I probably get judged all the time but I don't care about that. I also do biking and other types of exercise and am very concerned about my health and keeping a balance. Who wants to get sick right?



I handle failure all the time and do not do online dating as that was tried in the past and didn't work out overall that well What I do have is some limited escapism in the form of watching movies and TV-shows in a rather penetrative sort of way. I do not make good money and am on a wing and a prayer so I probably have more excuses than your friend but I still have a Gym membership.

Broski, the average man has it just as hard. Don't take your plight to heart. I go through periods of feast and famine. I am currently in a famine. When you are in hell keep going because that is the only way to get out of it. Puzzy is like money, it comes and it goes.

If you are lean and in good shape then you can not be too unattractive. I would advise that you pick up a group sport. Join group softball league or something. Do any hobbies that allows you to be in contact with women. Are you still in school btw? College is a gold mine.

Do you think that if you hit on 100 women this year that you won't get even 1. Not even a date? Nothing? This is why I say incels are a bunch of whiny bi*ches. They are like salesman that complain that it is too difficult to get a sale. Bro all you need is 1 damn sale. One. Can you honestly say that you are trying everything to get that one sale? No you can not.

I don't mean to sound harsh. I am actually letting you know that your situation is very optimistic. You can get that one girl. You just have to use all the opportunities at your disposal.

 

[Pandora]

What hobbies develop broad social skills?

Surprisingly BJJ classes, and yoga classes have some hot azz chicks. Join yoga. Or softball. Join dance clubs. Bachata dance clubs are full of chicks.

 

[RickTheToad]

I seriously have no faith or trust in therapists.

Just to unload. Everyone needs a somewhat neutral party to decompress.

 

[corrector]

Surprisingly BJJ classes, and yoga classes have some hot azz chicks. Join yoga. Or softball. Join dance clubs. Bachata dance clubs are full of chicks.

People on this board have said that it's creepy when a guy joins those types of classes with the hopes of meeting women and it backfires as a strategy. You are saying this, but nobody wants to be that creepy loner guy that's eyeing women around and making everyone uncomfortable. Same thing with the other suggestions. It would not stand to scrutiny of this board. People just see the GYM to
work-out and meeting women is a fail unless they show interest.

 

[corrector]

If you are lean and in good shape then you can not be too unattractive. I would advise that you pick up a group sport. Join group softball league or something. Do any hobbies that allows you to be in contact with women. Are you still in school btw? College is a gold mine.

I'm not lean, but not too fat either. I'm 43 years old and definitely not in school. I like borrowing movies from the library so I would more likely be in contact with librarians working at the library. Go to church but don't talk with anyone there.

Do you think that if you hit on 100 women this year that you won't get even 1. Not even a date? Nothing? This is why I say incels are a bunch of whiny bi*ches. They are like salesman that complain that it is too difficult to get a sale. Bro all you need is 1 damn sale. One. Can you honestly say that you are trying everything to get that one sale? No you can not.

I don't have the time for that. Who does in here? Cold-approaching was talked about on here. Generally seen as a waste of time in this day and age. See when it comes to giving "incel advice", you give advice that would get shot down if you actually wrote a thread about it and got feedback from veterans. People just go with social circles because cold-approach and OLD are usually gigantic fails unless you are high status.

I don't mean to sound harsh. I am actually letting you know that your situation is very optimistic. You can get that one girl. You just have to use all the opportunities at your disposal.

You are not sounding harsh. If your advice stands to scrutiny then that is fine. The only advice that is sound is social circle game (ie joining groups where you know people in common. I know the other advice would fail because it's either to creepy or puts you at risk of having the police/security called on you.

 

[corrector]

If you mean by traction that they just weren't attractive to girls, I know at least one girl who found at least one of them attractive, so I doubt that was their whole problem.

Was that girl hot?

I really don't always know what women are going to find attractive about men, on a purely physical level. Some of my friends haven't fit any pre-established model, and women find them irresistible, and other guys who look like they could be male models are just uncomfortably awkward, and have trouble getting a date (and, no, their looks aren't scaring the girls away, as some seem to want to believe). I suspect that an extremely good-looking socially awkward guy is more likely to get a shot, but if you're giving off a Ted Bundy vibe, you probably won't get too far with most girls.

There are experiments done with men online where a profile is placed on an extremely hot looking guy with a Ted Bundy style worded profile and even that guy had lots of traction. (probably not from the type of women I'd want to date anyway as that would be an automatic disqualifier). I take it most of what you are saying is anecdotal?

I think some guys obsess over their own looks because that's what they obsess over with women. Personally, if you looked up AVERAGE in the dictionary, you'd see my picture. However, I've had plenty of women tell me how handsome I am, which I can guarantee you is just in the eyes of the beholder.

Random women in public when you are out shopping for groceries?

As a mature adult? Just about anything that forces a group of people to work together can probably help develop social competency. Volunteer. Take a class. Get a coach, a mentor. If all of your offline friends are as socially awkward as you are, it probably doesn't matter if you're best buds with everyone at the Star trek convention. You need to learn to develop friendships that aren't based on some geeky fixation.

If you don't have social proof (i.e. women inside the group see that you have other women outside of the social group that like you), then doesn't that put you at a disadvantage?

 

[corrector]

1)If you read my previous post, you'd remember "that girl" was one of my sisters, and yes, she was considered very attractive, herself, although I'm not sure how much difference that makes, since she was just making a superficial observation about someone she didn't know; i doubt she would've actually dated him, because she thought he was weird. Besides, I'm sure how a person's own attractiveness influences who they find superficially attractive. Most of the guys who buy Playboy magazine probably don't look like Burt Reynolds, most of the girls that write love letters to Brad Pitt probably don't look like Playboy Bunnies.

I don't think one girl who thinks their weird sounds like traction. You are right, you have to also find a woman that you are compatible with. If you don't have enough traction then you start ignoring red-flags and making do even if you are not compatible and settling and those type of relationships don't work out after the Honeymoon phase. If there is no traction, then it's like pulling teeth.

2)I recall that Ted Bundy, himself, got thousands of offers for marriage from emotionally disturbed women, AFTER he was convicted of brutally raping and murdering(not necessarily in that order) many young coeds, but I wouldn't recommend it as a dating strategy.
Maybe, these women felt safe, because Ted was already locked up, and maybe those other women felt safe, because it was only online. Who knows how many of them would've shown up for an actual date, or how many of them were actually even women? And, no, I've never personally met an actual Ted Bundy type, that I know of, buy Ted Bundy was caught, after all, because he gave too many of his potential victims the creeps....in real life.

The same does not apply with online trolls because I think in these cases women are willing to meet up these guys. There is a youtube videos called "catfished" where a guy meets up women who think they are meeting a Chad they met online and see him instead and get turned-off. They do turn up to meet.

3) Do women approach me, from afar, swooning at my godlike visage? No. Women I didn't know would sometimes ask me to dance, at bars, but I never asked what attracted them. Usually, bars weren't my scene, because I have suffered a hearing loss which makes conversation in loud places uncomfortable for me(too many loud explosions at a young age). I did ok in the bars, but i never really liked them. The "swooners" I mentioned were mostly women who'd already gotten to know me a little. I might have attracted an odd admirer, but even they were girls who'd been observing me for a while. I used to get tons of phone numbers, but those weren't from women walking up out of nowhere, but from girls I'd been talking to for a few minutes. There's nothing special about my looks. Unlike Ted Bundy, i don't think I'd thrive in online dating.

That is still insightful because you are even saying that you don't feel you'll thrive with online dating. It's not an "incel" thing to fail or not thrive very well with online dating, it's common.

4) You need to develop social skills before you can establish social proof. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Okay and as you said you've talked to women for a few minutes. What do you talk about in the few minutes? Do you do a direct opener and talk about the venue or something happened, or if they are enjoying themselves or is it a more sophisticated type of banter?
Was there any humour injected in that brief talk? Did you do a false time constraint? Did you have social proof with other women in the environment before you talked with them? Did they initially have b1tch shields or were they approachable to you? How much time exactly did you talk to them for if you had a stopwatch, on average, was it literally 3-4 minutes?

The only social skills you mentioned was talking to women for a few minutes who became attracted to you and noticing you afterwards. That sounds like game to me rather than social skills, which means you had an opener, must have picked up they would be receptive to you approaching them to talk, you had some content to hold their attention and disarm their innate fears of dealing with a stranger, and must have had a false time constraint so she wouldn't think you'd be stalking her the rest of the night.

 

[corrector]

1) The only red flag beginners should worry about is if the person you're talking to is attempting to terminate the conservation. If you're missing that, then you're probably missing every other social cue, too.

That's easy because you are usually rejected by non-verbal cues or getting lame one line responses back. That's not really a red-flag that means you are not getting traction which again boils down to the issue of it not being a matter of social skills as she has to receptive to you in the first place.

2) The internet may be fine for honing writing skills, and for beginners to learn basic correspondence etiquette, but I think it has done more to erode social skills than any other human invention. I recommend guys trying to develop social skills spend more time doing things with other people, especially things that make holding or looking at a smartphone nearly impossible.

There is selective social skills. When dealing with anything else other than attractive women you want to talk to there is never an issue if you want to talk to someone. You can talk to anyone and the idea that any "social skill" can magically translate into actually getting traction with women does not add up. For the record, I don't live in an island, I'm talking to my mom or folks most of the time. So I really don't get the social skills thing it's different than seduction skills (ie. which is the use of social skills in a way that communicates charm, wit, amusement, confidence and creates a great impression to the lady you are talking to in a natural and organic way and differentiates yourself from other guys that are more lame to her). Social skills without seduction just doesn't work. So you can't learn social skills, or read a book "How to win friends and influence people" but I doubt that learning that's general for everyone would also work with seduction skills. The only point I can concede on is yes, you need social skills, but to say that one is devoid of social skills is hard to believe.

3) online dating wouldn't appeal to me, even if i were looking to date, because it forces people to attempt to sell themselves to people they aren't even interested in dating, yet. That's even worse than walking around town handing out flyers with your dating profile and phone number, to every cute girl you see, and I wouldn't recommend THAT, either. On top of that, guys complain that online dating places too much emphasis on photogenics, which aren't really my strongest assest. I have been professionally judged "Average," in appearance, and since I'm WAAAAAY above average in so many other areas, that would be like telling a decathlete that he could only compete in his worst of 10 Olympic events. No thanks.

Unfortunately, online dating is the most time-efficient way (i..e assuming you have a profile that sits there and occasionally send out emails rather than send emails to everyone and obsess like biggoal is doing) and more socially acceptable (i.e. you don't feel like you are stalking someone to approach them, people online are single so there is no chance of hitting on a taken girl, etc...)

4)I think you're overthinking the banter. If you're always meeting new people, which i spent years of my life doing, fluidity and congruity are much more important than any canned presentation. Practicing talking to people, with zero expectation, other than that they shouldn't want to be anywhere else, at that moment, than there, talking to you. Man, woman, elderly, child, all should be treated the same, as an interesting person worth your time to discover. If you happen to be talking to a cute girl, and she happens to give you her ph#, that's great, but it shouldn't be the only worthwhile investment of a few minutes of your life.

Okay, if this works for you then I can see there is a deficiency in talking to strangers or new people. I just don't see myself approaching men, for example, to talk with them because I just don't feel motivated to do that and it sort of feels gay. If I approach a child to talk about Wreck it Ralph or some child movie that sounds creepy if you are by yourself and are an older guy. My folks are elderly enough to look for any other elderly people to talk with. On the other hand, I get that you are trying to get me to a cute girl as "people" and there could be a social block if there is only social motivation to interact with them.

I still think there are other posters that are very much socially well adjusted (i.e. bigdave comes to mind), who have posted in the past, or other people that are successful in life but still have approach anxiety with attractive women. So, the real question is if something is hard-wired to create that type of anxiety, or if it's a simple social maladjustment which is causing an emotional over-investment with "cute girls (or any girl that doesn't look too masculine without assets or too goth). If it's the latter, then yes, you are on to something. If it's something that's hardwired, as I suspect, then the wiring itself would have to be dealt with and that would only come by facing the fears associated with talking to cute girls rather than being more social in general.

5) I have a great sense of humor, but a conversation shouldn't be a canned tight 5 performance. I'm not a comedian or a clown. If an opportunity for an appropriate one-liner pops up, so be it, but fluidity and congruity should be your goal in conversation, with ANYONE(cute girl or her father or brother, or whoever), and you can't really practice that in front of a mirror. You just need to get out and meet people. Maybe, volunteer to do something that requires you to cheer up people you might not even want to talk to, like people in a nursing home, or VA hospital, or on a suicide hotline. Take an improv class, if your struggle with spontaneity.

It sounds like your advice seems to be focusing on social component rather than the gym or my appearance. You are steering away from online dating (which I'm not doing anyway) and trying to refocus me on meeting new people in general. It sounds like very specific social advice.

Let me volley back to you and ask you if there was a time that you were socially awkward and had a difficult time with the ladies that was directly linked to your social skills in GENERAL talking to people and once you sorted that out then you started experiencing success. Is this something that you worked on or have you always been like this? There are extroverts and introverts. I'm worried that if I'm an introvert and you are saying I have to be an extrovert if I want to be successful with women, then I feel it's not really fair advice because you are saying I have to become something that I am not. There are many introverts that I know who are successful with women because women talk to them and reach out to them. I don't want to feel like I'm begging for friends and hope I find a girlfriend type of deal since something doesn't sound right about that type of advice. At least I'd feel like a fish out of water because I'm not being my true self.

6) Yes and no. Sometimes plenty and sometimes zero. Social proof can be training wheels, or it can become a crutch. If you have it, use it. If you don't have it, establish it. I always did better talking to attractive women than anyone else, just because I enjoyed talking to them most, but I didn't talk to them exclusively. I talked to everyone. I would have friends who would comment that my best responses always came from the most beautiful women, and I didn't know why that was true, at first, but eventually realized it was just congruity. But, i talked to everyone. I was just most engaged and on with very beautiful women, especially when they were really beautiful people, too.

So if your best responses came from men then that would make you gay? I'm not opposed to talking to everyone and don't have a policy to talk to women exclusively. I don't talk to women either so there is social equality. I get most of the non-verbal social rejection from women.

9) The only social skill a beginning conversationalist(yes, that is an actual skill) should focus on is talking to strangers, everyone, not just beautiful women.

I never said I just talk or focus on talking to beautiful women. As a fact of life, mostly in public, interactions are going to be mainly with women since most women work as cashiers on a check-out line, or when you are talking to someone in public. If there is a line I will select the line with the least amount of people on there so I can check-out faster and don't care who is the cashier. I normally don't talk to women cashiers anyway and just mind my own business. When I see women alone in a nature trail, I'm not going to talk with her either and have passed many women. So you see, there is no focus to exclusively talk with women since I don't talk to anyone. In fact, I probably talk to men more otherwise I'd be on a enotalone/loveshack site rather than on here, right?

10) openers, false time constraints, trust building.... Sure, i had opening lines that didn't sound like opening lines, or others that sounded so obvious that they were laughable. I actually asked a neighbor to borrow a cup of sugar(that one is so old that you've probably never even heard of it). It isn't necessary, though. Those are just techniques to make YOU feel more comfortable. Time constraints are useful, especially if you're bad at reading social cues. The best way to build trust is congruity and trustworthiness. Try sincerity.

Anything that makes me feel more comfortable will probably help rather than hurt.

 

[corrector]

Okay. Let me see if I can get down to the Bare Bones of this.

Fair enough...but it appears you don't know me and are making allot of judgments and assumptions so I will have to correct you where you have made a mistake in your assumptions about me.

Number one, no, definitely do not hang out around school yards, or approach strange children in a park, but if you are over at a friend's house, and if his children start asking you questions , it's okay to talk to them like people, instead of acting like an uncomfortable dork.

Number two, you may not want to approach other men you don't know in a singles bar, or try to strike up conversations with strangers in the bathroom. They definitely might get the wrong impression.

However, you are still over at the same buddy's house, and you won't talk to his kids, who keep tugging at your sleeve asking you questions, because you're afraid you'll look weird, and his super cute sister in law is visiting him. your buddy gives you the green light, by telling you that his wife's sister is unmarried, and doesn't have a boyfriend. do you engage your buddy's cute sister-in-law in friendly conversation, or do you sit pressing your sweaty Palms against each other, avoiding eye contact, while giving monosyllabic answers to her questions about you?

you are over at your buddy's house, again, and this time his brother is visiting. the only thing you know about the brother is that he played quarterback for Alabama, flew jets for the Air Force, and is now a Delta captain. do you see this as an opportunity to make a cool new friend, who seems to have his s*** together, and ask if he plans to go skydiving with you and your buddy while he is in town? Or, Does being in the presence of the brother make you feel awkward, uncomfortable, and judged as a man?

What about your buddy's stunningly beautiful wife? Do you act awkward around her, too? You want social proof? Well, this is your microcosm of social proof. What do you want the wife to tell her cute sister about you? That you act weird around her and the kids, or that you're a solid guy, witty conversationalist, are great with her kids, and that she is so happy that her husband has friends like you? even if you are able to make a good impression on the cute sister-in-law, because you remembered something you read in a pickup artist book about cold approaching tens and making yourself look like a high-status male, your buddy's wife is still going to torpedo you with her sister, because you thought it was only important to make a good impression on girls you want to f***.

I see how you've changed the script. Therefore I have to correct your assumption. I am not the person that you characterized there. Lets say the last Thanksgiving family event that passed by (in Canada, our Thanksgiving holiday was the past weekend). Of course, I like talking to children and don't have an issue relating with younger cousins. I love children's animated movies (most of them are adult-friendly) and wouldn't mind relating to kids at least on that level. What you are saying would be in my judgment rude and I'm never actually rude to people that has invited me as a guest the way you are portraying.

In the last Thanksgiving event, I spoke with my male cousins. I didn't have any interest in socializing with any of the Filipino women that were there as I knew they were all taken, or doing other things. Discussing political issues and movies with my same sex cousins was allot of fun and engaging. I visited the cinema twice together with my male cousin. I don't have a female cousin, or interact with my women in real-life when you are talking about these settings.

So, I would say you 100% mischaracterized me. There is not much social exposure to women period, even on a family level apart from my mother, and occasionally a friend of the family.

let's try a different scenario. this time, you are sitting at a table in an open-air restaurant, on a nice spring day. you are supposed to be having lunch with your father , but he has texted you that he is running about 30 minutes late, and instructed you to go ahead and order for both of you, which you have already done. as the waiter walks away with your order, you notice two women sitting at Separate Tables adjacent to yours. One is a pretty young woman engrossed in her cell phone. The Other Woman appears to be in her late seventies, and is sitting with her hands folded in her lap, and staring at the clock on the bank across the street. which woman do you engage in conversation first? or, do you just pick up your own smartphone, log onto so Sosuave, and continue bitching about how impossible it is to meet cute meet cute girls?

Or the third option, binge-watch The Walking Dead or Killing Eve on my Tablet so that probably would not be on my mind. I rarely see elderly people sitting by themselves in public at the places I frequent anyway.

well, luckily for you, I bumped into you on the street, outside the restaurant, and when you bent over to pick up your dropped sunglasses, they were actually a pair I had fixed with a video and audio monitoring device so, now I'm in your head, informing you that your father isn't really running late , but that I have actually kidnapped him, and that you will never see him again, unless you start conversations with both of those women, and leave them both with positive impressions of you.

Without missing a Beat, you tell the older woman that you're waiting on your father and ask her if she's waiting for? she tells you that her daughter has just called and canceled, and that she was just wondering whether she should go ahead and order anyway. you tell her that you were just about to pick up your smartphone and pay some bills, and return some emails, But then you heard your father's voice in your head, lecturing you about how this generation is always walking into lamp posts, because they can't take their eyes off of their cell phones, and spend more time on social media, pretending to have a life, than actually living it. you smile warmly and tell her that you were hoping that she would talk to you until your father arrives, instead, so that you wouldn't have to listen to another one of his lectures. She asks how old your father is.

That is an interesting scenario you've presented but it still feels like you are making an assumption that I would not like talking to an elderly person and are presenting a case where talking to an elderly lady would lead to some sort of moment.

I'd be curious, has the scenario you presented in your example happened to you, or anyone you know in real life (i.e where talking to someone you were not interested in or elderly resulted in you scoring with a hot girl in the environment and eventually making progress with her)? Sounds like something from the end of the movie "Hitch" 2005 (i.e. except the gender roles were reversed).

If you go with Ocean's Razor, then I would say the lack of social exposure to women that are within my age or younger sounds more realistic of an issue than anything you've said so far which sounds like you've made allot of assumptions and convoluted scenarios that sounds like it came from GroundHog Day (1993) or Hitch (2005).

 

[corrector]

you want to talk to me about introverts and extroverts, Jung? You want to talk to me about being true to yourself, Polonius? are you really trying to convince me that a young boy talking to his mother requires social skills? what kind of relationship do you have with your mother, anyway? He wants to know if I've ever been awkward or if I was just born this way?

I'm awkward every time I'm learning a new skill, but the most awkward people on Earth, by far, are those too afraid of looking to ever learn anything new. I came into this world just like every other man, crying and helpless, but some men just insist on living their lives that way. you better start getting comfortable with discomfort, if you ever want to achieve anything. you need to make friends with whatever is the inextricable element of the process. if pain is unavoidable, learn to love pain. if you need to walk through fear to get what you want, then fear is your best friend, because fear is going to scare the Lesser men away, but not you. fear is your bodyguard.

now, you want to maybe tell me how you think it was inefficient to talk to the older woman first, or how a real Pick Up Artist would have been banging the bank teller in the men's room in 30 minutes? well, if you think that's how picking up girls works in the real world, you might be watching too many pornos. if you believe everything you see in the pornos Oh, you might want to just get yourself a job as a pizza boy, and wait for all your sexual fantasies to come true. Or, you can pay thousands of dollars for a seminar weekend with one of those Pick Up Artist gurus, who will tell you all of his magic incantations to make any supermodel follow you home and rip your clothes off. well, I will tell you a secret about the vast majority of pickup artists. they are mostly just nerds who think that they are hacking the *****, like it's the CIA Mainframe, and they are guccifer, when they are really just taking drunk girls home who went out to bars to get laid. they treat their literature like they're publishing cheat codes on WikiLeaks, when most of it is either nonsense or common sense. I am not a Pick Up Artist. If you want magic spells that will let antisocial dudes Seduce supermodels, I am not your guy.

I talked to an elderly Asian lady at a bank in a line yesterday about subways (i.e. because she wore a uniform and told me she was a subway operator). I lightened up and told her about my love of subways as a kid and how subways have changed in the city since the 80s. I never made any representation that I don't like talking to elderly women (or fvcking them for that matter if anyone of them likes me that way - but on principle and fear of God I won't do that to anyone I'm not married to) and occasionally look at porn involving elderly women so what you are saying 100% doesn't reflect me at all.

In fact, for the record, I've seen a woman that we've french kissed in 2017 that could be mistaken for my mother and looked old (my mother didn't want her for me and this was just broken off), had a close Indian elderly friend that I had a friendship with that involved watching an Indian movie in her bedroom (we were both fully clothed) in 2013 (my mother broke that off because she didn't think that friendship was right or that she was treating me right), and had an elderly church friend back in 2010, so even for the record what you are telling me doesn't add up to say that I'm prejudiced towards elderly women. In fact, my mom is worried that because I'm comfortable with her, I'm more likely to feel comfortable talking to elderly women like her rather than younger women as she expressed 10 years ago.

You really want to seduce women? that is very nearly an oxymoron. seduction is a feminine art. men are leaders. Leaders attract followers. Men attract women. The women men attract compete to seduce the men they follow. It is masculine for a man to attract a female following. That is the natural order. Seducing a woman is an abomination. That is what the snake did to Eve in the garden.

Leading is seduction then. It's called alpha-male or high-status male game. Heard about it. Some people focus on that.

 

[corrector]

This is as far as I've read, so far, and felt i needed to address this, before continuing. Neither of us knows the other. I know nothing about you that doesn't come directly from your posts. Any picture i could form about who you are, as a person, from anything you post in this thread or forum would be like looking at a million piece jigsaw puzzle with 900 thousand pieces missing. I would just be guessing.

Which is why corrections and adjustments are made with the advice that you are giving. I think people on here have preconceived notions that incels are losers and aren't trying or have entitlement issues and this is something that can be resolved with some simple advice because they social misfits who aren't trying and playing a victim card. Its what people normally post on around here? Do you not agree that some aspects of your posts could echoes some of that sentiment, even if non-intentionally?

Now I'm assuming you wrote a two page post full of content and spent allot of time and energy compiling that to talk to OTHER people that fit your stereotypical mould of what an incel loser is supposed to function. I wonder what percentage of incels actually fit that profile then. I guess I must be a very a-typical incel then.