Does personality even matter?

[Arete]

Being brutally honest, I am confused enough now that i can not say if you are a troll or have some sort of autism

not trying to smear you or anything, and hopefully I am wrong. Just what I feel from these ongoing back and forth about some topics that are quite straightforward for the very vast majority of guys in the world

and for some reason it feels that you are projecting the stuff that you lack into being the super most important things and that without them you are doomed

I also feel like he is a troll. I remember how he recommended a new guy to get hookers and switch countries to get even more hookers. I believe his logic was to get "more relaxed around women". Why would anyone write this on a forum like this? Makes no sense.

 

[Cheeky_James]

I”ve seen all kinds of stuff

Down syndrome couples , couples in wheelchairs, etc

what I usually don’t see is guys or women jumping that much outside of their looks rating, unless maybe there is in a club or something like that. But that usually is just hooking up, and usually is guys doing 2-3 points besides their looks rating

yep exactly. So ppl play in their own looks leauge.
And ‘personality ‘ is most likely a minimal factor in reality. It’s really Allpha vs Beta personality. Women will compromise on a dudes personality imo, as they know they will be able to control the show anyway , as they have the bigger social IQ and manipulation skills in any relationship.
They just make the guy THINK it’s his amazing personality initially. Let him think that. As they pull him , and not the other way around . all women are amazing actresses in that regard mate , is my opinion as an older guy

They run their Game on us.
And not the other way around.
They just let us think that WE have great ‘game’ cos they know we have fragile egos.

As men are ‘easy’ to women. The average male is quite dumb in comparison to the average female.

think about it…

 

[BackInTheGame78]

It matters a lot once you get past the first date or two. And even to a large degree on the first date, it can make the difference between something happening and nothing happening.

Looks get you in the door. Personality and other traits keep it from getting slammed shut in your face.

 

[Cheeky_James]

@BackInTheGame78


Well unless you are talking about an Alpha vs Beta type set of personality traits . I’d disagree.

but looks like I’ll have to agree to disagree with you all on this.

but thanks for the debate, it’s been very interesting.
Thread can be locked now I reckon.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

@BackInTheGame78


Well unless you are talking about an Alpha vs Beta type set of personality traits . I’d disagree.

but looks like I’ll have to agree to disagree with you all on this.

but thanks for the debate, it’s been very interesting.
Thread can be locked now I reckon.

You can disagree all you want, but I guess it depends on what your of relationship you are looking to have. If it's just to fvck then probably not so much. If it's an actual relationship that gets deeper into LTR territory then I'm not really sure what you are disagreeing with.

 

[Cheeky_James]

Tbh and ill try close on this one.

the only Game that I see working as a strategy outaide of improving looks & behaviour to appear more Alpha, is flipping the script on a woman so that she becomes the persuer and not the Persued.
the chaser and not the chasee.

I think most women are wired to chase and complete against other women for a man,

it’s the most effective kind of game imo outaide of being the alpha guy and setting up the Dom-sub dynamic,

those two strategies are the way to go imo,

 

[Divorced w 3]

If sexual desire is built in the mind, how could personality not affect attraction? This is a fundamental truth.

 

[Bigpapa]

Tbh and ill try close on this one.

the only Game that I see working as a strategy outaide of improving looks & behaviour to appear more Alpha, is flipping the script on a woman so that she becomes the persuer and not the Persued.
the chaser and not the chasee.

I think most women are wired to chase and complete against other women for a man,

it’s the most effective kind of game imo outaide of being the alpha guy and setting up the Dom-sub dynamic,

those two strategies are the way to go imo,

Dude, women rarely Chase. Especially if sex does not happen

even the ones that are way bellow you in terms of looks will not chase you. They would rather die than chase you

unless she is super anxious or something, but even then it is more a no than a yes

seriously, have no idea from where you get these ideas … for sure not from the field

 

[Cheeky_James]

You can disagree all you want, but I guess it depends on what your of relationship you are looking to have. If it's just to fvck then probably not so much. If it's an actual relationship that gets deeper into LTR territory then I'm not really sure what you are disagreeing with.

I tend to think that even in LTR territory , mens whole Perspective on this personality thing is incorrect as well. You should see the amount of b1tching women do w their girlfriends about their men. The women will slate each others BFs togehter on group chats. That’s what they are doing half the day on their phones.

they just smile and pretend to their men,
And one week of the month get hormones and are lovey -dovey. The other 3 weeks they are either neutral or a pain in the ass and openly agressive, in most relationships this occurs.

And also , to any guy is not yet a father -wait till she had the kids and watch the change . The mask falls
Off pretty fast then. Across the board. That’s a real reality check

 

[Cheeky_James]

If sexual desire is built in the mind, how could personality not affect attraction? This is a fundamental truth.

wrll different guys here are giving different definitions here as to what is that personality,
I can’t list them all.
But I’m saying it’s alpha traits /dominance traits.
Other guys saying it’s jsut confidence,
And other guys saying it’s rapport based and making women feel special .

so my take is a bit different and back to alpha male theory, or a guy that can prize himself or flip the script and make her chase him with game playing.
Maybe that’s Dark oersonality trait idk, probably.

I reckon the rapport based ideas of personality are not solid. And that confidence as a general term is not specific enough I guess,

it’s really looks + dominance traits in personality simply. Not rapport building skills and the other things guys chuck in. That’s not as important. Women will build the rapport.

I’m looking for a more specific definiton.of what actually works. With some good evidence to it,

 

[BackInTheGame78]

wrll different guys here are giving different definitions here as to what is that personality,
I can’t list them all.
But I’m saying it’s alpha traits /dominance traits.
Other guys saying it’s jsut confidence,
And other guys saying it’s rapport based and making women feel special .

so my take is a bit different and back to alpha male theory, or a guy that can prize himself or flip the script and make her chase him with game playing.
Maybe that’s Dark oersonality trait idk, probably.

I reckon the rapport based ideas of personality are not solid. And that confidence as a general term is not specific enough I guess,

it’s really looks + dominance traits in personality simply. Not rapport building skills and the other things guys chuck in. That’s not as important. Women will build the rapport.

I’m looking for a more specific definiton.of what actually works. With some good evidence to it,

That's not personality tho. That's like 5% of what personality entails. It would be like saying "going to the gym is all you need to become jacked", when that's only a part of it. Nutrition, macros, sleep, recovery, etc all play a part in it.

 

[Bigpapa]

I tend to think that even in LTR territory , mens whole Perspective on this personality thing is incorrect as well. You should see the amount of b1tching women do w their girlfriends about their men. The women will slate each others BFs togehter on group chats. That’s what they are doing half the day on their phones.

they just smile and pretend to their men,
And one week of the month get hormones and are lovey -dovey. The other 3 weeks they are either neutral or a pain in the ass and openly agressive, in most relationships this occurs.

And also , to any guy is not yet a father -wait till she had the kids and watch the change . The mask falls
Off pretty fast then. Across the board. That’s a real reality check

You know, my theory about women b1tching about men in general is actually a projection of their own behavior

Almost all the women that I met that were b1tching about men / relationships, etc saying that men are toxic or whatever, in reality they were the toxic ones

and I think that hamster wheel spins something like

Woman knows she is toxic deep down -> projects that men must be too ( or worse ) -> they feel guilty for being toxic -> finds the slightest reason to pin it on the men -> ends up with men are the toxic ones and she is a victim

 

[Clockwerk50]

That's not personality tho. That's like 5% of what personality entails. It would be like saying "going to the gym is all you need to become jacked", when that's only a part of it. Nutrition, macros, sleep, recovery, etc all play a part in it.

Personality encompasses body language, tonality, style, communication skills, sense of humor, hobbies, interests, mannerisms, educational background, work ethic, morals, values, emotional intelligence, confidence, social awareness, assertiveness, charisma, conversational skills, leadership, temperament, behavior, and how you handle conflict, rejection, stress, and adversity.

I'm probably missing a more things, but women care about these qualities to varying degrees, and some of them can even be deal breakers. So, yes, OP should know personality does matter, to a certain extent.

 

[characternote]

It matters for relationships.

Its matters for cold approach to the extent that if you are ridiculously weird/shy/boring/autistic, then you probably won't get the lay even if she thinks you are hot (unless you are like a 1% giga chad in which case you'll still probably get her for the night lol)
But you can't really 'personality' your way into a hot girls pants from a cold approach when she isn't REMOTELY physically attracted to you.
I know everyone on forums has a 'friend' who is obese, bald and 5ft tall who cleans up, but you have to say it's weird how we've never seen anything close to that when it comes to actual verified dating coaches who have dedicated their lives to this. I've certainly never seen it in my 20+ years of nightgame

We've never seen anything like that. Everything we've seen from 'pros' is more or less what you'd expect to see (i.e better looking coaches do way better than the others who need to play a much bigger numbers game. And importantly, you can typically tell within 2 seconds whether his approach will work or not if you are paying attention to her body language and replies etc!)

It's a bit like someone claiming they know guys who can run faster than Usain Bolt lol

I've always said that 'game' (personality) DOES matter to some extent. Social skills matter. But from a cold approach especially, her decision (attraction level) is more or less decided as fast as it is with you when you see a girl. The higher it is, the more bad 'game' you can get away with. 'shy' becomes 'mysterious' etc

 

[Mike32ct]

The difficulty is when the guy is not physically attractive to her. Even if he has a good personality, she will likely ignore him, give him one word answers or shut him down hard before he has any opportunity to demonstrate his personality. He’s basically considered “creepy” by default. This is more of a problem during cold approach or any situation where he’s not likely to encounter her again.

In a social circle, he might have more opportunities to display his personality. While she is unlikely to change her mind about his lack of attractiveness, he has a fair chance to shed the “creepy” label and maybe upgrade to “friendzone.” Not great but marginally better than being seen as a creep.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

The difficulty is when the guy is not physically attractive to her. Even if he has a good personality, she will likely ignore him, give him one word answers or shut him down hard before he has any opportunity to demonstrate his personality. He’s basically considered “creepy” by default. This is more of a problem during cold approach or any situation where he’s not likely to encounter her again.

In a social circle, he might have more opportunities to display his personality. While she is unlikely to change her mind about his lack of attractiveness, he has a fair chance to shed the “creepy” label and maybe upgrade to “friendzone.” Not great but marginally better than being seen as a creep.

Plenty of examples of how attractiveness changes the longer a woman knows a man and she starts becoming attracted to things other than looks. Research backs this up and so does the fact of seeing hot girls with ugly dudes that she has known for a long time and has fallen for other aspects of him

Attractiveness is far less "static" than people believe.

 

[Cheeky_James]

If sexual desire is built in the mind, how could personality not affect attraction? This is a fundamental truth.

yknow , I think is a misunderstanding here.
Guys sprook this idea of “it’s all about how you make the woman FEEL “rah rah.

it IS about her feelings. But its how she FEELS when she is LOOKING at him. From about 1 second in and onward. The rest of the feels that may come are icing on the cake for her.

When create their own feels. As the guy is talking and as she is fantasising all kinds of things about who he is in her imagination. By linking his Looks to all kinds of other things. Other stories and romance blueprints

I’ve seen this in action plenty of times IRL personally and with other girls and guys they are ‘crushing’ on. It’s the ‘crushing on’ but that’s the key bit . The crush caused by his Looks.

they will be imagining and projecting all kinds a stuff about his ‘personality’ . When he’s not even there! LOL.

that’s where the old expression “Love Is Blind” comes from. It means when a woman is crushing on a guys sweet looks, she doesn’t see the reality of him. Sometimes massively so.

And also viceversa with men and Hot Women.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

yknow , I think is a misunderstanding here.
Guys sprook this idea of “it’s all about how you make the woman FEEL “rah rah.

it IS about her feelings. But its how she FEELS when she is LOOKING at him. From about 1 second in and onward. The rest of the feels that may come are icing on the cake for her.

When create their own feels. As the guy is talking and as she is fantasising all kinds of things about who he is in her imagination. By linking his Looks to all kinds of other things. Other stories and romance blueprints

I’ve seen this in action plenty of times IRL personally and with other girls and guys they are ‘crushing’ on. It’s the ‘crushing on’ but that’s the key bit . The crush caused by his Looks.

they will be imagining and projecting all kinds a stuff about his ‘personality’ . When he’s not even there! LOL.

that’s where the old expression “Love Is Blind” comes from. It means when a woman is crushing on a guys sweet looks, she doesn’t see the reality of him. Sometimes massively so.

And also viceversa with men and Hot Women.

I think you are mistaking how a woman feels initially with how a woman feels after she begins to start liking a guy after meeting them many times and noticing different things. Those are two very different pathways.


Your pathway is how she feels when she has virtually ZERO information about the guy other than how he looks. The other pathway occurs when she has increasingly more information about the guy that results in looks being a smaller and smaller part of the overall attraction.

This is born out is virtually every research study ever done on the subject and in social circles every day.

Essentially looks dominates when she has no other information to go on, but as she continues to get more information, looks begin to decrease in importance relative to other traits.

 

[Cheeky_James]

So we seem to be in a bit of consensus about Short Term Mating. Hookups and casual sex relationship types. So that’s good at least

And @Bigpapa re the Chase Dynamic.

Dude, women rarely Chase. Especially if sex does not happen

even the ones that are way bellow you in terms of looks will not chase you. They would rather die than chase you

unless she is super anxious or something, but even then it is more a no than a yes

seriously, have no idea from where you get these ideas … for sure not from the field

“Dude, women rarely Chase. Especially if sex does not happen”l etc

oh dude you are SO wrong there.
I’ve had heaps of women chase me.
My last LTR chased me for months before we got togehter and then went for many years in LTR.
And I had a string of others before her inmy heyday.

man’s that’s what my lil Brazilian player friend was a master at also. I saw him do it over and over.

the chase dynamic is the most important thing after high looks. (It goes with high looks obvs)

That’s what a ‘male seducer’ actually is.

A guy that can do this very well and flip the script on a woman. And he’ll draw it out and get her really hooked.

A male seducer type guy takes the womans Game and flips back around and runs it on HER.

And all women are naturally wired to chase a prize guy and compete against other women to win him.

Trust and believe brother !1000%

——good example—————
Brent Smith is a great example of this kind of seducer guy from the PUA era.
he says if the woman is not pursuing him , he will let her go, any woman , no matter how hot she is.

Because he knows being the pursuer is the wrong frame to be in. It’s the lower value frame and you’re not in the driving seat. Very wise man. I must go back and recap his sh1t. It’s golden his advice imo.

And the some of the older PUA stuff had solid strategies for this. But they seem to have all been thrown out now but idk why . That’s stupid.

all you guys need to watch this and rewatch .
Trust me. And you too @BPH
Listen to his story about becoming a master pursuer and the effort -reward ratio.

edit;
—-the problem w mens advice —————-
And I think these words such as ‘personality’ and ‘rapport’ and even ‘confidence’ and ‘charisma’ are sh1t to use in men’s advice.
As they are big meta group descriptor words .
That can contain many many elements. Only a smaller % of which are actually useful and WORK with women as a strategy.

even that juggler video of being “real” is a bit mixed up. As in his examples he’s actually being ASSERTIVE is the word. He’s calling the woman out on the “what do you do for work “question and taking control of the conversation. He’s cutting the sh1t and frame controlling. So it’s being more ‘Boss’ or Alpha really is what he’s doing IRL.

but I do like him and his advice. Great conversationalist is Juggler . Very smart guy. Again it goes to high-assertiveness and Alpha qualities and traits.

—-how to think about it———
I prefer to use Frame Control ideas.
frame battles and dominance ideas, and think in terms of Frames. As that is what is actually going on underneath the conversation. Power Frames of the man colliding with, destroying and absorbing, the frames of the woman and then he dominates and has the power in the interaction. And she submits via the battle and lets him lead her. (All this is a massive turn on for a woman btw, trust and believe)

I’ve seen this over and over. And it can be analysed in conversations on video. Frame battles and frame control etc.
@taiyuu_otoko you may get this perspective. And others guys. If so please chip in.

wow that was a mega post . lol

 

[Cheeky_James]

Here’s a summary of all youse guys opinions so far and the words you used .

cna you see how meta, vague, and ultimately pretty fvcking useless this advice actually is now?

And how it just causes more confusion as it misses the bigger picture of the split between Alpha traits and Beta traits to start with?
Like the most important part .
To use that lens to categorise and focus on personality traits to begin with ?