Does anyone just get tired of the games?

[edger]

Uh, I won't check out your post to Phyzzle, you have nothing to tell me. Dismissing the importance of career is all I need to know about you. I'll listen to Rollo T., Latinoman, Desdinova, Francisco, and various others here; I'll wait for you to get other aspects of your life going, sorry.

For ME personally, a career is important. But for some it isn't, and there's nothing wrong with that. Everybody chooses to do as they wish and live their lives according to how they wish. And in that aspect, that's what makes the world a special place. Who's to say they're "wrong" or "pathetic"?

Listen to whoever you want, I at least know what I know and see what I see.

 

[decades]

I don't think its wise to judge people on what they do for a living, their "career". People are Much more than that.

 

[WestCoaster]

When you reach the end of your life, it's not about how much money you made, or how much you accomplished..it's about the type of soul you were; how you treated and interacted with those around you(and don't misinterpret that in the typical supplicative "nice guy" context that we all talk about here).

I would agree with that 100 percent. What I'm getting out is the loser realm of so many 20-somethings in this country who have all the resources at their fingertips to be successful career-wise and spend all their energy AFCing, or "clubbing" or drinking and drugging, and just being morons.

To roll your eyes and dismiss "career" as important just shows me you're another one of the 20-something minions whom I'm wasting tax money on as they do time, or community service, or have to take diversion classes for their DUI's, or pay their unemployment checks ... sorry, but career is important.

Here's a good idea: next time you see a homeless guy, ask him how he got there. Some are mentally disturbed, not all .. perhaps they might think career is important.

It's not the joke you think it is.

 

[Vulpine]

Uh, I won't check out your post to Phyzzle, you have nothing to tell me. Dismissing the importance of career is all I need to know about you.

Wow, I'm...

I'm sort of at a loss for words, WC. I'm somewhat awed by that little morsel.

I can see where you are coming from, however.

See, I used to live on the West Coast myself. It's a funny little world out there. The thing is, the rest of the world doesn't operate on pacific time.

The coolest guy I have ever known is not employed. In fact, the two coolest people I have ever known are unemployed - one dude lives on the west coast. The warmest, most selfless, and most passionate people I know are unemployed.

Funny, but I avoid the "career types". These people, in my experience, are the most self-centered, backstabbing, cold, superficial, and generic people I've ever known. Talk about wrapped up in the game!

Give me a waitress over a CEO any day of the week.

Uh, I won't check out your post to Phyzzle, you have nothing to tell me. Dismissing the importance of career is all I need to know about you.

You should be ashamed of yourself. Consider where society is today, then look again at your post.

But, I'm not flaming or starting any arguements. Don't bother with a reply (maybe take it to a PM). I'm just pointing out MY OPINION. I only disagree with that mindset, nothing more. With your rants against the feminization of men and such, I greatly respect you; which is why I wanted to point out how your little outburst there contradicts the very movement you encourage.

 

[edger]

I would agree with that 100 percent. What I'm getting out is the loser realm of so many 20-somethings in this country who have all the resources at their fingertips to be successful career-wise and spend all their energy AFCing, or "clubbing" or drinking and drugging, and just being morons.

To roll your eyes and dismiss "career" as important just shows me you're another one of the 20-something minions whom I'm wasting tax money on as they do time, or community service, or have to take diversion classes for their DUI's, or pay their unemployment checks ... sorry, but career is important.

Here's a good idea: next time you see a homeless guy, ask him how he got there. Some are mentally disturbed, not all .. perhaps they might think career is important.

It's not the joke you think it is.

WestCoaster, do you read??? Did I not say I think career is important for ME personally?

WestCoaster, what does career have to do with those who are doing time, community service, taking diversion classes for DUI's, and unemployment checks?? Not having a career has nothing to do with these things. Furthermore, you're not "wasting" money if somebody is collecting "unemployment". People collect unemployment when they get laid off from a job and are currently looking for another. You can't fault someone for that. And whatever they collect is out of their own pocket that is allocated aside from their paychecks each pay period. And from my understanding of it, once their allocated unemployment money runs out(if they haven't found a job by then), that's when the gov't starts taking money out of OUR taxes to help them. WestCoaster, you got it all wrong buddy, you're talking in riddles.

Now if those on unemployment are just sitting around and collecting, and not making any effort to work, then that's obviously a whole other story. That I have a problem with.

Anyway WestCoaster, back to the topic of discussion that I originally came here for, my original point was, it doesn't matter how "good" of a career you may have. I see many hot women marrying and getting into serious long term relationships with men who don't make much money(translated in your terms, those who don't have a "good" career).

WestCoaster, you seem really non-understanding and close-minded, not to also mention heartless.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

My two cents: A career (whatever it may be) is important to your livelihood (quality of life and well being). Understand that career is not the same as income.

Things begin getting complicated once your career is the lure for the interest of a woman. Whether or not you intended on casting it as bait, be cautious if your career is more important to a woman than you are to her.

 

[So Many Ways]

Nothing wrong with that Squirrels, you're a lot younger than me. As you get older and the bills and other pressures mount, you'll find you don't have the energy to do that sh-t anymore. It's a bit fun at 27, it's not so fun at 40.

I have no patience for air-heads, idiots and mean people (of any gender) and especially game-players. At 27, I was an AFC, so I probably didn't know how to play games ... and I've had enough played against me to last a lifetime.

I move on quickly from situations that aren't positive to me now, as in very quickly. I've stayed too long in bad relationships and bad jobs in the past, now I just move on quickly ... no revenge, no speaking my mind, just a quick move outta there.

I hear you loud and clear. I'm 32 and I don't have patience for that anymore either.

F#@# games, games are bullsh!t.

All these online pimps that tell you this **** is some sort of complicated math equation are trying to separate you from your money. They have a vested interest in making all this stuff so complicated when it really is as simple as opening your mouth and starting a conversation.

Nowadays I'd much rather be myself and put my focus and energy on other endeavors besides gaming women.

I look at it like this. I can figure out rather quickly if a woman is worth my time or not. If she is worth my time I'll see what she's about. If she's on some BS, I'll keep it moving. It's that simple.

 

[WestCoaster]

WestCoaster, you seem really non-understanding and close-minded, not to also mention heartless.

I think you're clueless. I said nothing about income, but having a rewarding career. Rolling ones eyes at even mentioning the importance of career just shows me the emasculation of America. It used to be that career was important to men, now it's how many tattooes one can get, or how many earrings a 40-year old can wear while he's skateboarding -- yes, I see 40-year olds skateboarding.

I'm not even taking about coin in the bank, but something you can be proud of. I have highly educated friends making lots of coin, not as educated friends making coin, some not making as much coin, but have a fulfilling career. Guy I know has a very lucrative car repair business. His schooling wasn't college, but he got the training and has done well, it's something he can take pride in and he should. He does a helluva job on my car.

I have another friend making six figures as a CFO in Seattle, but it's not about the $$$, but the pride he's taken to pull himself up from poverty as he grew up very poor. Both examples of what you can do if you set your mind and heart to something that's purposeful.

Men rolling their eyes at career, laughing at those who have pride in career, and dismissing the importance of it is a huge problem in our country. There's a lot of research out there in how our men 20-30 are blowing off a lot of their life just wandering around substance abusing, clubbing, not furthering themselves. And I read yesterday that China is building and filling up universities faster than one can believe and most of the people are studying engineering, computers, medicine, etc., and they already have way more ready-made engineers than America, which has had engineering schools for more than a century.

Why? Because they take pride in career. They don't roll their eyes at career or laugh at it or dismiss it. They think it's important.

I'm continually shocked at the replies on this board ... but then again, it mirrors society.

 

[Vulpine]

I think you're clueless.....I'm continually shocked at the replies on this board ... but then again, it mirrors society.

Indeed.

After talking with my grandparents, my parents, grandparents of girlfriends, and other couples 60-85, my "career" opinion has been put in perspective.

There was a time when a couple "toughed it out together". Lean times, lavish times, kids, disaster, sunny days of spring... get some older folks talking about how they met and their early years. Talk about "shocking".

If you isolate the woman, she'll only briefly refer to her husband "going off to work". If you isolate the man, he'll refer to it the same way, but since he was there he may indulge a few more details: "I did well there, and got paid well, too."

You typically have to pry what it was that the man did for work out of them.

Work was work was work. Jobs come and go, money comes and goes, friends come and go, and the only constant was "the other" or "the family".

Post WWII era (late 40's-early/mid 50's), to me, was the halcyon time for relationships in the United States.

These days, people can't seem to shut the fux up about what they do for work. They can't disassociate money from social function. Everyone's favorite color is green. Everyone's favorite topic is green. Everone's hobby is green. Everyone's motivation for living is green. Everone's lack of motivation for living is green. Green, green, green, GREEN, GREEEEEEN!!!!
:crazy:

 

[Vulpine]

Embrace the good times while they last. I'm in my 40's and have hit a social funk of late. I've moved from previous towns and left really good social situations to so-call improve my career. Some of it has worked, some of it hasn't. This one hasn't worked. I thought it was me; it's not.

Not to get too whiney here, but where I currently live isn't working socially for me. Professionally it's working well, they treat me well, I like my job. But after three years, socially it's been a train wreck, and trust me, I've tried every trick in the book not just for dating, but also to get friends. Sometimes you don't click with a place. Much of that is my age, most people have families the sort. But sometimes you just have to move or make a change.

Example: The other night I got great tickets to a college basketball game, as in down by the floor. A coach gave them to me. I called a gal I had dated off and on, she initially said yes but had to cancel (teen daughter had something that was up). Called another gal I dated a couple times, she had a meeting. Called another gal, she had to work. Called a guy friend, he wants to go -- wifey has girl's night out, he has to bail at the last second. I'm up to strike four now, I call another guy, he decides to go, cancels at the last minute, also.

Sure, this scenario didn't help my self-esteem, I'm not used to getting five or six strikes. Rather than mope, I've decided to try and get out of Dodge by New Year's if I can find a quality job. Sometimes places don't click, no matter what the effort. I've lived in many towns, this is the only one where I've been "rain checked" dozens of times, with no follow up on the rain check.

Embrace your friends, girlfriends, relationships, family while you can. Sometimes you land in the proverbial desert and it's not fun. Sorry for the "whine and cheese" ... had to get that off my chest. I was going postal the other night!

The average earnings in a lifetime from a person who has a bachelor's degree and one who doesn't is now at $1.5 million and climbing.

I work in career counseling, companies are really moving into the degree-only for management and quality jobs. I say this all the time, but men never listen to me. Meanwhile, women are getting degrees by the 100's (see story in Esquire magazine) and are going to take over if men don't start quit f-cking around with sh-tty jobs and worrying on macking and going to clubs all the time.

I work at a commuter college and have had numerous people 40 and older come in who practically run huge sectors of their companies -- some at nice places like Hewlett-Packard and Micron -- and they've been told if they don't get a degree, they will not get a raise or advance. I think it's stupid, but this is how bosses are these days.

I scream it to the mountain tops on this board because I see this EVERY WEEK, but dudes here just ignore me, f-ck around in their 20's and end up nowhere.

Read Esquire magazine's state of American male and the story on how women are surpassing men academically and professionally -- it's depressing.

Just by a quick glance on this board, I can see why: She dumped me, I'm a loser, should I read a seduction book, what do I go, blah, blah, blah ... socially, have fun and relax and don't worry about women; professionally, work on your career by going to college or trade school.

You can point out all the exceptions to the world to me that your third cousin doesn't have a degree and he's at so-called job -- good for him. I'm in contact with company CEO's on a weekly basis and they're demanding degrees.

At 23, get your a$$ to college, work on educating yourself -- and you'll also meet some high-quality women in school.

If you think the work-force is diploma-oriented now, wait till 10 years.

MMmmm... whine and cheese served on irony crackers. Tasty!

The red dish, with the little red garnish later... also tasty.

Green, green, green, GREEN, GREEEEEEN!!!!

 

[WestCoaster]

WOW, you took the time out to dig back all those quotes. Talk about vindictive -- WOW!! Holy sh-t, simply stunning.

 

[Mr.Positive]

This issue seems to be with corporate America. We're force fed by the media, our rapidly changing culture, that success equates to how much money we make. Watch any commercial on TV. The guy that drives the nice car, has a nice house, beautiful wife, and high paying status corporate job is successful.

The days of the happy couple running a coffee shop, or small craft store, butcher, etc. are disappearing because of Walmart, Starbucks...big corporations. A simple test..ask any "successful" person what they would do if they won 10 million bucks, and the first answer out of their mouth is usually "quit my job".

Money does not equal success. Money is a tool to live the fullest life you want to.

I used to have a corporate "career" job. The most unethical people I've ever met, were high paid executives. But they were "successful"...I laugh to myself because they were also the most miserable too.

 

[WestCoaster]

I'm talking about doing something fulfilling in one's life. One can't just gaze into a woman's eyes for 50 years, or be clubbing at age 60.

A career --whether one makes a lot of coin or not -- gives a man a strong foundation, something to build off of, eliminates his obsession with other things, like women and so forth. My friends who built their lives around women instead of career are struggling.

I'm not sure why suggesting focusing on career is criticized so much here.

Many more foreigners and women are attending college, trade school, or getting apprenticeships than men. I've read the data and continue to read the data. I'm not sure why bringing these things to light is considered "bad" by the likes of Vulpine and his ilk.

 

[Vulpine]

WOW, you took the time out to dig back all those quotes. Talk about vindictive -- WOW!! Holy sh-t, simply stunning.

Yeah, let me take a moment to gun on myself, now....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream

I'll be fair and admit that:

1. I have graduated secondary schooling, but, do not have a "generally recognized" college degree.

2. I can't drive for another 8 months. (I found the little blurb about "automobile prejudice" struck a chord with me.)

Now, that being said, I must add "fair to fair" and say that...

3. I am happier now, "without", than I have ever been in my entire life.

Happiness, to me, isn't neccessarily green.

I guess I've stopped chasing the "dangling carrot" that is the "generally recognized" "American Dream". I've started chasing MY OWN dream, not one that has been marketed to me.

I don't watch TV, I avoid the radio, and somehow... I feel a lot more adequate; a lot more independant; a lot less guilty; a lot "richer".

 

[Mr.Positive]

I understand what you are saying Westcoaster, however a career is a subjective term. A career to me may mean something different to another person, that's something that took me a long time to figure out because I was so caught up in following the "path" that society programs us. The path--go to college, get a degree, get some meaningless corporate job, work hard, and then you will be successful. Then, you will have the nice car, nice house, hot trophy wife, and you will be happy. The path isn't for everyone. A good friend of mine has travelled the world teaching English. He doesn't make much, and by societies standards, he's a loser....but he loves what he does. He's happy...to me, he's a success story all the way.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Hey Vulpine, I'm right with you on this one. I haven't been happier since I've left my corporate job chasing the "dangling carrot" <-- love that one!

 

[Vulpine]

I'm not sure why suggesting focusing on career is criticized so much here.

Many more foreigners and women are attending college, trade school, or getting apprenticeships than men. I've read the data and continue to read the data. I'm not sure why bringing these things to light is considered "bad" by the likes of Vulpine and his ilk.

You know what? My beefs aren't with focusing on career at all. My beef is with the little rider that attaches itself EVERY TIME the subject comes up. The little rider is that "you have to get a degree to have a career". My beef is with some people's definition of "successful career" including "must get a degree". And you have a personal interest in that rider - it's your career! I have a little personal interest in it as well...

I've been in my "career field" for 14 years. I started at rock bottom because noone recognized my secondary schooling as relevant, though it was. My "degree" was routinely blown off because it wasn't from a university. Chip on my shoulder? Sure. But, since my entry at the bottom of a corporation, I worked up through the ranks into management, only to be transplanted into a machine that was broken and scrapped as a whole. Ahh... the corporate money machine. After those 9 years, I took my experience and jumped ahead with a small company, then later again found a well paying job with ease.

The point? No degree. Stable career.

I come in to work late, take off when I want, stay late if I want. Hell, I'm getting paid while I type this. :yawn: And, should I care to move, I'm employable in any city in the US (with a population of over 5000).

I'm all for having a career, something you do for a living. I'm all for advancing in your career, but I disagree strongly that stepping foot on a campus makes you automatically more successful.

I'm very employable. I can fix diesel-electric locomotives and install security electronics, but I don't. Nope, those are "back-up" careers. Instead, I continue to add to my 14 years experience in my field of choice.

Which would you rather hire? Someone who has 14 years experience? Or, someone fresh out of college with a degree?

I'm not buying that "corporate cubicle" version of the American Dream... I'm not.

And, to get back to the point of the thread: "Does anyone just get tired of the games?" Yes. You have to see through to the cause: greed, money, degrees, green, glitter, glamour, gold-digging, judging value based on income, marketing, hype, etc. etc.

People don't associate with other people for silly sh!t like "Oh, he didn't go to college." or "Oh, he works at XYZ Co... eww!"

Talk about silly! Games?

In 1960 the poet Archibald MacLeish, debating ‘national purpose,’ said: ‘There are those, I know, who will reply that the liberation of humanity, the freedom of man and mind, is nothing but a dream. They are right, It is. It is the American dream.’

The game I'm most tired of is the shell game that is media, marketing, and society's version of the "American Dream" which has no regard for "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

Don't tread on me.

 

[WestCoaster]

I mentioned a guy who has his car repair business being successful and didn't have a degree. I mentioned other examples, but you didn't read them.

I'm talking about everything, college, training, or apprenticeships or just building a career of one's own and how that's important. You're obviously really defensive about this. All I know is the U.S. has sold out the country by abandoning the blue collar jobs in cars, timber, and so forth and sending them overseas. In the Northwest, timber used to be huge and a kid could just go from high school into the forests. No longer.

It's best to be aware of these trends. I -- unfortunately -- meet with people every day who run entire sectors of computer companies. Their stupid bosses have told them they're not going to get promoted unless they need a degree, after knowing the business inside and out.

Those aren't my rules, it's a TREND which is going on now. I don't agree with it, but I inform people of the GAME that is being played now, and unfortunately that's what's going on. Is it right? Hell no. Do people sometimes have to play the game. Yes.

Now unless one can figure out how they can bring back the auto industry, blue collar work, farming, and timber in this country, please tell me. Those were outstanding options for people and every president in the last 30 years has done nothing to stop overseas outsourcing.

Criticizing someone for telling them that career is important is ignorant. I talk to displaced workers and people in industry on a DAILY basis. I hear the same stories over and over: degree or you're getting leap-frogged by some young geek. I hear it more than 100 times a year. I don't agree with it, but I hear it.

To dismiss this and think it's not happening out there just because it's not happening to YOU is clearly ignorant. It's happening, unfortunately and it's getting worse. That chip on your shoulder works for YOU, that defensiveness works for YOU, I'm telling more than just YOU that there's a shift in the work dynamic out there. I know, I hear it every day.

Vulpine wrote this:

******************
Which would you rather hire? Someone who has 14 years experience? Or, someone fresh out of college with a degree?
**********************

I'd rather hire the person with 14 years experience, but I'm not making the rules, they are. Vulpine is the exception to the rule, sadly. Look at trends and norms, not exceptions -- always.

I read where the average starting salary for a graduate of Duke University's MBA program is $130K. Two years to get an MBA, that's $100K at Duke ... that person makes 30K more than he paid for Duke in his first year and unfortunately leap frogs hard workers who have been at the company 30 years. It's not right, it's what's going on.

Ignorance isn't bliss, it's just ignorance.

 

[STR8UP]

I'll have to jump on this later.....

 

[Vulpine]

I'm not denying that the whole "degree trend" isn't happening. I agree, and it is silly. But, you have to specify the difference in careers.

Now, try to apply the "degree myth" to social and dating mechanics. Non-thinking people hear "degree = success", then it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy... like-a-so:

College enrollment dwindles, University marketing board places an ad: "Degree = success"
Newspaper reporter (who is probably an alum/has pull with university/got paid a "little extra, oops.") reads, builds story on, looks for evidence to support, repeats: "Degree = success"
Employer reads in business section: "Degree = success"
Employer tells potential candidate: "Degree = success"
Potential candidate becomes a statistic, complains: "Degree = success"
Person he complains to does a study of statistics, publishes: "Degree = success"
Newspaper dating columnist reads study, reports: "Degree = success"
Woman reads column, tells potential candidate she dumps: "Degree = success"
Potential candidate meets new people in social circle, asked: "Degree?" Alienated from conversation.
Shut out by society, potential candidate follows the rest of the flock to university: "Degree = success"
University marketing board cashes in on fabricated facts, "Degree = success"
College enrollment numbers up.
University marketing board happy with newspaper, takes out more ads.
Newspaper happy, keeps supporting advertising claims.

I'm not saying "that's how it is", I'm saying, that's an example of the game the US plays, and that's media/marketing's role in such an example.

Those are the games I'm tired of playing.