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Do alpha males pay for sex?

ZosoWicca

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However, lets not ignore the fact that some men actually pay for the hooker's time. Meaning they go out on dates with them, take them shopping, take them out for dinner and pay for all their time spent with them. Now its not just about paying for sex, but more about paying for a women's companionship. Would he still be considered alpha at this point?
That's pretty simp actually.
Paying a hoe should be just to smatch her @ss and get the dik wet, not feeding her ego, just treating her as the piece of meat as she can offer herself.

However, what if a succesfull guy like Richard Gere hires a hoe like Julia Roberts (Pretty woman). He is already alpha, hiring a hoe doesnt reduce or increase his value.
 

ZosoWicca

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The truth is, a man should be his highest best self in every way; business, fitness, finances, control of his emotions, and yes even seducing women. If you're solely relying on paying for hookers because you dont want to waste precious time in getting to know a woman (which actually makes a valid point) then you're half way there.
Exactly. If it is the case, it shouldnt be a problem at all. If it is affecting some other abilities or the self-steem, then it is a problem. It depends on the context someone is.
 

SW15

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"Alpha" and "beta" for humans depends on the social context. My boss at work is the alpha at work. He's a beta with his wife. Middle-managers at work, the "betas" are alphas in their social groups. They are also betas in social groups they're not as established in.

It's context-dependent. But generally, "alpha" is a man who behaves in accordance with high testosterone levels. It doesn't mean everyone supplicates to him, or that he's the leader of everyone.
So many white collar manager bosses are alphas in the context of their work but betas in romantic relationships.

As I've often said on this forum, a first date with a woman should never involve expensive wine 'n dine venues. It should be at a casual bar or lounge where costs can be moderated and it's clear that you're not trying to impress anyone. Don't take her to a dive. Just an unpretentious, nicer upscale bar, pub, or lounge. If the date goes well and it's clear that she's attracted to you, then you can take her with you to eat somewhere. If the date is not going well and she ejects after 2 rounds of drinks, you're out $35-40 tops. Big deal.
This is good advice provided that you don't have too many first dates that fail. Those $25-$40 failed dates will add up. Swipe apps lead to the highest quantity of failed dates.

This is because...

  • men can get more first dates from swipe apps in a lot of cases than they would from cold approaching because they can be in more places at the same time.
  • interactions behind electronic screens are mostly useless. They can't predict anything about the in-person experience. A lot of men have good texting and possibly phone call sessions but the interaction falls flat in person. A 5 minute in-person interaction can save a bad date costing hours and $25-$40. Video calls can help with this which is why I don't oppose them. However, video calls are still less efficient than cold approaching.
  • cold approaching is the most brutal thing out there. Swipe apps can pump you up with false hope but cold approach never does that. In cold approach, you are what you are.
The most common type of date from a swipe app is "one date, no sex, no second date". That's a complete waste. Men are better off going on fewer dates and avoiding that type of date. That type of date can happen from cold approach but in less volume.

There's a lot of post-feminist b!tching and moaning about paying the date tab on this forum, that women should pay half etc etc. THE MAN PAYS. He's not paying because he wants poon from her. He's not paying to impress her and simp. Doing either is a huge turn-off to women. He's paying because he's the man, and the man leads, the man takes care of people under this charge, the man is responsible. He takes care of his lady. Because he demonstrates that he is a masculine alpha man who protects, provides, and takes care of people, the lady is attracted to him. NOT because she wants his money.
I do not appreciate having to pick up tabs on early stages. At various points in my life, I have paid the tabs on dates for women with higher salaries than I had at the moment of the date. It is a bit of an outdated thing. With all of this said, I do it. Women's vaginas are in such demand that if I don't do it, the next guy will do it.

I don't fully agree with your premise. I think it's a combination of wanting to lead her and impress her. There's also the notion of "Whoever asks, pays" and most men are the askers for dates.

taking care of a woman on a date, which she agreed to attend because she is romantically/sexually interested in the man, is NOT THE SAME as a man hiring a professional skank to touch his d!ck. Not in any way. The only similarity is monetary expenditure, which you need to do in order to pay your rent, eat, get to work, fill your car with gas, copay a doctor's visit, whatever.

This is like saying "banging a hooker is no different from making a mortgage payment, because you have to spend money either way." Spending money on dates, and spending money on hookers, are not the fvcking same. In any way.

There are a lot guys on this forum who I very much doubt have any interest in actual pickup and seduction. They want to complain about women and Chad, and justify why it's better to bang hookers than to learn social skills with women.
It depends is the answer to most of this quote.

There are instances when "professionals skanks" are physically attracted to a client. I agree that taking a woman on a traditional date indicates that the woman is considering the man for sex.

Men pay for sex in every instance of sex. They either pay directly or indirectly. We're evaluating how direct a man is with his payment for sex.

You're correct that this forum needs to be pickup and seduction focused. Social skills and indirect payment seductions of women are difficult skills to gain. A guy who pays directly has a high cost per bang. It's always going to be high. Guys who pay indirectly are more likely to achieve a lower cost per bang if they can get a good grasp on social skills and charisma.
 

ZosoWicca

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There are instances when "professionals skanks" are physically attracted to a client. I agree that taking a woman on a traditional date indicates that the woman is considering the man for sex.
This is something that ugly guys don't know. That's why they are very insecure about going to hoes as they think it makes them seem more betas and are in fact undesirable guys for every girl.
 

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Lover_boy

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This is something that ugly guys don't know. That's why they are very insecure about going to hoes as they think it makes them seem more betas and are in fact undesirable guys for every girl.
Again, so if you’re internal belief of yourself is that you’re a wimpy beta, unattractive and bad with women. Then that will reciprocate with every woman you encounter, if hookers.

But if you’re internal belief is the opposite
 

Lover_boy

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Again, so if you’re internal belief of yourself is that you’re a wimpy beta, unattractive and bad with women. Then that will reciprocate with every woman you encounter, if hookers.

But if you’re internal belief is the opposite
But if you’re internal belief is the opposite, that you’re alpha. Then again that will show and women will respond accordinly, even hookers.
 

rjc149

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Men pay for sex in every instance of sex. They either pay directly or indirectly. We're evaluating how direct a man is with his payment for sex.

You're correct that this forum needs to be pickup and seduction focused. Social skills and indirect payment seductions of women are difficult skills to gain. A guy who pays directly has a high cost per bang. It's always going to be high. Guys who pay indirectly are more likely to achieve a lower cost per bang if they can get a good grasp on social skills and charisma.
It could be argued that the underlying motivation for nearly everything single men do is to have the most mating opportunities. The job I do, the clothing I wear, the car I drive, the time I spend in the gym, the clean food I buy at the supermarket, the money I spend at bars on weekends, is to making myself as attractive as possible to women and to give myself the highest likelihood of mating with an attractive woman.

$30-40 on bad dates adds up, yes -- but I easily spend 3x that with my boys out at bars and restaurants on weekends. It falls under my entertainment spending. I'm a bachelor with no kids, so I don't have high life overhead. I can splurge a bit more on myself. If I'm going on 1 date per week, and some of those dates go nowhere, it's not a big deal.

I never did Tinder. I was big on OKCupid. I had a lot of good photos, including a shirtless photo I took after lifting where I looked swole. Yeah, that probably immediately disqualified me with a lot of women. But women who agreed to meet me had pretty high interest level. I'd say 3 out of 4 dates resulted in some form of sexual activity, often that night. I was getting pretty consistent with OKC.

The dates that sucked, I don't know. Maybe my game was off, she wasn't feeling me, whatever. You're not going to bang every woman on earth. Yes, that was money down the drain but it's part of dating, you pay to play, and never something I took careful measures to avoid. Spending money on a hooker is a bigger waste of money.
 

bat soup

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In Vietnam for 10$ you can get a hot young woman to suck your **** without a condom.

But obviously, when I was there I wanted to prove that I was a man so I went around buying random broads dinner.
 

SW15

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It could be argued that the underlying motivation for nearly everything single men do is to have the most mating opportunities. The job I do, the clothing I wear, the car I drive, the time I spend in the gym, the clean food I buy at the supermarket, the money I spend at bars on weekends, is to making myself as attractive as possible to women and to give myself the highest likelihood of mating with an attractive woman.
I would make that argument.

$30-40 on bad dates adds up, yes -- but I easily spend 3x that with my boys out at bars and restaurants on weekends. It falls under my entertainment spending. I'm a bachelor with no kids, so I don't have high life overhead. I can splurge a bit more on myself. If I'm going on 1 date per week, and some of those dates go nowhere, it's not a big deal.
This financial analysis depends on how active your social life is and how many failed dates per week that you have.

There are some men out there that can put up an average of 2 failed dates per week from swipe apps. These are guys in the 6-7 range.

I never did Tinder. I was big on OKCupid. I had a lot of good photos, including a shirtless photo I took after lifting where I looked swole. Yeah, that probably immediately disqualified me with a lot of women. But women who agreed to meet me had pretty high interest level. I'd say 3 out of 4 dates resulted in some form of sexual activity, often that night. I was getting pretty consistent with OKC.

The dates that sucked, I don't know. Maybe my game was off, she wasn't feeling me, whatever. You're not going to bang every woman on earth. Yes, that was money down the drain but it's part of dating, you pay to play, and never something I took careful measures to avoid. Spending money on a hooker is a bigger waste of money.
Directly paying for sex vs. failed dates. If you directly pay for sex, you get something. With failed dates, you get nothing.

Shirtless pics on OKCupid looking swole was a great strategy 10 years ago. Yes, you were disqualified by some uptight women but the women who showed up on dates were more willing to bang.

As for your dates that sucked, those dates likely would have been bad cold approaches in the real world that didn't result in a number exchange or date, saving you money.
 

rjc149

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Directly paying for sex vs. failed dates. If you directly pay for sex, you get something. With failed dates, you get nothing.
This I have to disagree with. With failed dates, you gain experience, knowledge, improved skill sets with women. Especially with OLD, there’s usually a low likelihood that she doesn’t think you’re good looking enough. She saw your pics, and gave you a shot. So a failed date is usually some hole in your game. You can now plug the hole.

With a hooker, you bust a nut. You learn nothing, and gain nothing for posterity. You pay a woman to masturbate with her vagina. Something you can do for free, on your own, without feeling sleazy. Post-nut clarity, I have to imagine, is worse after banging a hooker.
 

SW15

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With failed dates, you gain experience, knowledge, improved skill sets with women. Especially with OLD, there’s usually a low likelihood that she doesn’t think you’re good looking enough. She saw your pics, and gave you a shot. So a failed date is usually some hole in your game. You can now plug the hole.
Wrong. Many men search for a long time and can't figure out what holes exist. These are not dumb men either. In fact, it is often more intelligent men that have bigger struggles in dating than less intelligent men. Most of the time after a failed date, you get zero feedback from the woman. If you got feedback as to why the flake job happened, it's usually not the whole truth and not usable. I don't believe in the notion that failed dates automatically help you plug holes. I think it is too idealistic of an analysis. With websites/swipe apps, the only thing they can do is lighten your wallet and teach you that the channel is a bad channel for accomplishing things in dating.

With a hooker, you bust a nut. You learn nothing, and gain nothing for posterity. You pay a woman to masturbate with her vagina. Something you can do for free, on your own, without feeling sleazy. Post-nut clarity, I have to imagine, is worse after banging a hooker.
Your body has different chemical reactions in sex vs. mbating.
 

rjc149

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Wrong. Many men search for a long time and can't figure out what holes exist. These are not dumb men either. In fact, it is often more intelligent men that have bigger struggles in dating than less intelligent men. Most of the time after a failed date, you get zero feedback from the woman. If you got feedback as to why the flake job happened, it's usually not the whole truth and not usable. I don't believe in the notion that failed dates automatically help you plug holes. I think it is too idealistic of an analysis. With websites/swipe apps, the only thing they can do is lighten your wallet and teach you that the channel is a bad channel for accomplishing things in dating.



Your body has different chemical reactions in sex vs. mbating.
It’s not about intelligence levels. It’s about social calibration, and in order to do that, you need to be in social situations. With failed dates, you are getting experience and feedback. Not explicit feedback from the girl, but results, or lack thereof. Sometimes you just don’t connect with a girl, but I’ve done a lot of post-date analysis, figured out where I went wrong, and made corrections that served me well on future dates. Every failure is a lesson. Every man, regardless of his intelligence, is capable of pattern recognition given enough data points. A failed date is a data point.

Part of the chemical reaction you experience during sex is the release of oxytocin, and much of that has to do with the emotional bonding you form with a sex partner. When having sex with a hooker, there is no emotional bond formed. Banging a hooker is not having sex. It’s glorified masturbation. There is no emotional validation, bonding with another human, enhanced confidence with the feeling of accomplishment that comes with a woman wanting you as a result of paying a hooker to allow penisary access to her holes.
 

corrector

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It’s not about intelligence levels. It’s about social calibration, and in order to do that, you need to be in social situations. With failed dates, you are getting experience and feedback. Not explicit feedback from the girl, but results, or lack thereof. Sometimes you just don’t connect with a girl, but I’ve done a lot of post-date analysis, figured out where I went wrong, and made corrections that served me well on future dates. Every failure is a lesson. Every man, regardless of his intelligence, is capable of pattern recognition given enough data points. A failed date is a data point.

Part of the chemical reaction you experience during sex is the release of oxytocin, and much of that has to do with the emotional bonding you form with a sex partner. When having sex with a hooker, there is no emotional bond formed. Banging a hooker is not having sex. It’s glorified masturbation. There is no emotional validation, bonding with another human, enhanced confidence with the feeling of accomplishment that comes with a woman wanting you as a result of paying a hooker to allow penisary access to her holes.
I don't get why failed dates are being compared with hookers. People might visit a hooker AFTER a failed date. You gained the experience from the failed date and you busted a nut afterwards. In fact you are more likely to be in a frame of mind to visit a hooker because you just had a social interaction with a lady that didn't go anywhere and are primed for something. (I don't visit hookers or go on failed dates).
 

ZosoWicca

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Banging a hooker is not having sex. It’s glorified masturbation.
I feel the same if it's a hooker or a hoe from the bar at 4am. The same b!tch whose sole purpose for me is to be used as holes.
For self validation I would seduce women at another moment although.
 

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corrector

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I feel the same if it's a hooker or a hoe from the bar at 4am. The same b!tch whose sole purpose for me is to be used as holes.
For self validation I would seduce women at another moment although.
So you don't talk to the hooker and say "you are enjoying this aren't you b1tch?" or make any comments like that or try any role-playing service, etc...? I can't get turned-on with just holes. You can buy sex-toys for that. I can get turned on with the fact she is a woman and I can talk with someone who is nude. Grope a nude stranger without having the police called. I can practice Spanish with a nude Spanish escort since you won't find a Spanish language tutor who will strip if you get the answers right, right? There can be a productive use of time with an XXX-twist. Or find an escort versed in dancing who could be a dance instructor who will teach you to dance nude, etc....
Again, this is theoretical, I think if I actually visit escorts I will be fighting against the primal urges to try and make a session productive so I can learn languages, or do something else that's constructive.
 

ZosoWicca

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So you don't talk to the hooker and say "you are enjoying this aren't you b1tch?" or make any comments like that or try any role-playing service, etc...? I can't get turned-on with just holes. You can buy sex-toys for that. I can get turned on with the fact she is a woman and I can talk with someone who is nude. Grope a nude stranger without having the police called. I can practice Spanish with a nude Spanish escort since you won't find a Spanish language tutor who will strip if you get the answers right, right? There can be a productive use of time with an XXX-twist. Or find an escort versed in dancing who could be a dance instructor who will teach you to dance nude, etc....
Again, this is theoretical, I think if I actually visit escorts I will be fighting against the primal urges to try and make a session productive so I can learn languages, or do something else that's constructive.
It not as you say. A man can have sex with his girlfriend being drunk, i.E. Sometimes your girlfriend just let you to possess her.
Of course, sometimes as well the girl is apathic and this is a turn-off. But it happens as well with a SNL, a girlfriend or even a wife. So it is not a cause-effect issue. It just can happen or not.

What if you are a rock star and the girl just fuked you to have the experience with such a boy?? She just let herself being possessed, as a girl that wants get pregnant, as a girl that wants to lock you down, as a girl that is impressed just by your money, as a h00ker that just wants money right there, etc...
 

corrector

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It not as you say. A man can have sex with his girlfriend being drunk, i.E. Sometimes your girlfriend just let you to possess her.
Of course, sometimes as well the girl is apathic and this is a turn-off. But it happens as well with a SNL, a girlfriend or even a wife. So it is not a cause-effect issue. It just can happen or not.

What if you are a rock star and the girl just fuked you to have the experience with such a boy?? She just let herself being possessed, as a girl that wants get pregnant, as a girl that wants to lock you down, as a girl that is impressed just by your money, as a h00ker that just wants money right there, etc...
Agreed, but what post are you replying to? What did I say?
 

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When an alpha man buys bread, he pays for it because it was someone's work to produce it.
 

SW15

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I never did Tinder. I was big on OKCupid. I had a lot of good photos, including a shirtless photo I took after lifting where I looked swole. Yeah, that probably immediately disqualified me with a lot of women. But women who agreed to meet me had pretty high interest level. I'd say 3 out of 4 dates resulted in some form of sexual activity, often that night. I was getting pretty consistent with OKC.

The dates that sucked, I don't know. Maybe my game was off, she wasn't feeling me, whatever. You're not going to bang every woman on earth. Yes, that was money down the drain but it's part of dating, you pay to play, and never something I took careful measures to avoid. Spending money on a hooker is a bigger waste of money.
Your results on OkCupid (I'm guessing this was between 2008-2014 or so) were pretty solid given what OKC was like in the 2008-2014 era. OkCupid was a bit of a shiit show then.

Men pay for sex in every instance of sex. They either pay directly or indirectly. We're evaluating how direct a man is with his payment for sex.
Can a man be alpha in every way (business, human relations, even in his own relationship with his woman) and still be considered an alpha male if he hires an escort for sexual companionship? Generally speaking of a man in any age group.
The act of paying directly for sex is neither alpha nor beta in itself. There are too many other variables involved.
 
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