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COVID is a lie.

mikey2012

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So we are sacrificing the livelihoods of the strong and able in able to save the weak and infirm? Over 20m have lost their jobs in the US. Is this cost we must pay to save 100,000, 1m or even 10m lives? The governments are making the greatest blunder in the history of mankind with all these lockdowns and quarantines.
 

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corrector

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So we are sacrificing the livelihoods of the strong and able in able to save the weak and infirm? Over 20m have lost their jobs in the US. Is this cost we must pay to save 100,000, 1m or even 10m lives? The governments are making the greatest blunder in the history of mankind with all these lockdowns and quarantines.
Are you asymptomatic, experience mild symptoms, or you just didn't catch the virus yet? Different people, from all walks of life, including children, very healthy marathon runners at a young age, all across the board are dying horribly from this virus. Sure, lots of people are asymptomatic or have few symptoms but they can pass them to healthy people who can end up dying, that's almost akin to murder.

You don't care about 1 million or 10 million lives? See your example just keeps going higher in body-count. Why did you stop at 10 million? Why not stop at 100 million or half the population, or 3/4 of the population, or how about just leave a million survivors? Where do you draw the line?
 

samspade

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Money can be made again. The dead can't be brought back.

Nevertheless, I don't have all the answers on this. Everyone seems to want to be right about it and there will be plenty of confirmation bias on both sides when it's all over (or diminished). Bottom line, there's nothing you or I can really do about it other than act in our best interests based on the information we have.
 

FairShake

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I've watched a half-dozen people die from Covid-19 and see more people in my facility get it every day. It's not a lie. It's very real and deserves to be treated as such.

If left to work it's way through our society unobstructed it will kill many more people AND the economy which cannot handle a half-million or million deaths in the space of a year.
 
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Medina

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The weak should have been isolated from the start and had their wages covered by the government

The rest of the world should have carried on as normal

The only problem is the odd "fit and healthy" person does indeed die from the disease

But every war has collateral damage
 

stovepipe

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I've watched a half-dozen people die from Covid-19 and see more people in my facility get it every day. It's not a lie. It's very real and deserves to be treated as such.
What were their symptoms? How were they treated? Age range of patients? Were they put on a ventilator?
 

samspade

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The weak should have been isolated from the start and had their wages covered by the government

The rest of the world should have carried on as normal

The only problem is the odd "fit and healthy" person does indeed die from the disease

But every war has collateral damage
I agree...actually I think the gov't should send everyone cheap test kits and test everyone.

Isolate the carriers and let the disease die off via immune system or (sadly) patient death.

Meanwhile open the economy so the healthy can get back to work and life.

Unfortunately some people won't self-test or won't isolate, so there'd need to be an incentive, but it would all still be much cheaper than what we're doing currently.
 

taiyuu_otoko

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If left to work it's way through our society unobstructed it will kill many more people AND the economy which cannot handle a half-million or million deaths in the space of a year.
How can it not work its way through society?

This is kind of like chemotherapy.

They blast both healthy cells and cancer cells with poison, hoping the healthy cells will grow back.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

But it usually sucks pretty bad.

Now they are sort of doing the same.

Blasting the economy and the livelihood of tens of millions, hoping it will kill the disease, and the temporarily out of work and suffering, innocent, people will somehow bounce back.

There are absolutely no guarantees that they will.

If they don't bounce back, we've got a ruined economy with tens of millions of jobless and homeless people.

There are absolutely no guarantees that the people saved by the lock down will not be greater than the people killed by the lockdown.

Every percentage increase in unemployment is associated between 10,000 suicides.

But politicians and others with power tend to choose based only on what they can see in the short term.

They never care about long term negative consequences.

That is always somebody else's problem.
 
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FairShake

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What were their symptoms? How were they treated? Age range of patients? Were they put on a ventilator?
S/S: Shortness of breath, fever, Pulse ox<95, sometimes much lower, high WBC count, low heme
TX: We put them on O2 and, if possible, in the prone position. They were all transferred to the hospital but due to space they were all sent back if they were not on ventilators.
Age: 75+
Vent: They are not giving everyone vents from what I understand. Age is definitely a factor.
 

zekko

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The only problem is the odd "fit and healthy" person does indeed die from the disease
Of course the odd "fit and healthy" person, even children, will sometimes die anyway, from any number of causes. It would be nice if we could say we will not allow even one death from this, but that's not a realistic, or even possible, way to run society.

Blasting the economy and the livelihood of tens of millions, hoping it will kill the disease, and the temporarily out of work and suffering, innocent, people will somehow bounce back.
Not only has it not killed the virus, the virus is spreading, even with the lockdown. There's more virus around now than a few months ago when we started this thing. Now they want to open things back up. That seems to be based on nothing other than everyone being sick of this and saying "Screw it". And that society can't function indefinitely on total lockdown. And that the health care system hasn't been overrun, which was what all this was supposed to prevent anyway. Makes you wonder if all this was worth it in the first place.
 

Xenom0rph

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Time to re-open. Those who want to stay in lockdown are free to do so while those that want to return to normal can do so as well.....

It is tyrannical to force everyone to lockdown.
 

Bible_Belt

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It is tyrannical to force everyone to lockdown.
Forcing people into unsafe working conditions without adequate testing or protective gear is somehow less tyrannical? We haven't even passed the laws yet to give large corporations lawsuit immunity for negligently killing their workers.
 
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Xenom0rph

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Forcing people into unsafe working conditions without adequate testing or protective gear is somehow less tyrannical? We haven't even passed the laws yet to give large corporations lawsuit immunity for negligently killing their workers.
Nobody is forcing anyone - those that wish to stay at home are free to do so - just like how Elon Musk is reopening his Fremont plant, employees may return if they wish or stay home if they wish.....

Why did you purposely distort my post by cherrypicking only a fragment of what I wrote and twist it to imply that people HAVE to go back to work against their will? Are you trying to spin a narrative?
 
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AttackFormation

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If COVID 19 is a lie, then the economic crash could also be a lie.
The economic "crash" is already a lie. There is no crop failure, infrastructure collapse, war, mass crime, material shortage, or even a real mass death like from the bubonic plague. There is no technical problem. The problem is only administrative: the flow of money can't be directed properly so people can keep paying their financial costs of living. That's it. It's basically an exaggerated debt deflation.

Calling these things "crashes" and "crises" when there is none of the things I described above just shows you how much power words have over perception, and perception is reality. What these economic "crashes" and "crises" should really be called is something like "maladministration". How would people react if we talked about terms like debt deflation at all, and used words like maladministration instead of crisis when referring to the economy? Perception of reality can and would be very different with different terms and rhetoric... as I'm sure there are those who are well aware of.

It's the same thing with job shortages. In technical reality there is no shortage of work in itself, there is plenty of work to do in all kinds of blue, pink, and white collar fields... but the way we administrate that work into jobs, that's how a "shortage" is created. If a 4 hour day, 20 hour work week was instituted tomorrow, all of a sudden some would say there is a pandemic "labor shortage". But all that was changed was administrative.
 
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Xenom0rph

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The economic "crash" is already a lie. There is no crop failure, infrastructure collapse, war, mass crime, material shortage, or even a real mass death like from the bubonic plague. There is no technical problem. The problem is only administrative: the flow of money can't be administered properly so people can keep paying their costs of living. That's it. It's basically an exaggerated debt deflation.

Calling these things "crashes" and "crises" when there is none of the things I described above just shows you how much power words have over perception, and perception is reality. What these economic "crashes" and "crises" should really be called is something like "maladministration". How would people react if we talked about terms like debt deflation at all, and used words like maladministration instead of crisis when referring to the economy? Perception of reality can be very different... as I'm sure there are those who know.
I prefer to call it "Scamdemic".
 

Alvafe

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Nobody is forcing anyone - those that wish to stay at home are free to do so - just like how Elon Musk is reopening his Fremont plant, employees may return if they wish or stay home if they wish.....

Why did you purposely distort my post by cherrypicking only a fragment of what I wrote and twist it to imply that people HAVE to go back to work against their will? Are you trying to spin a narrative?
yeah no when goverment is finning people walking in the street or bussiness who is working, or the poilce gang up on a single person because somehow is is fishing in the sea and it was forbidden
 

Bible_Belt

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Why did you purposely distort my post by cherrypicking only a fragment of what I wrote and twist it to imply that people HAVE to go back to work against their will? Are you trying to spin a narrative?
Every state and company varies somewhat, but most people do have to go back to work when their employer re opens, because their unemployment will get yanked. There are very few, if any, mandatory sick leave laws in the United states as well, so especially in low paying jobs, we will have contagious people forced into the workplace.

Therefore, introducing for an unlimited time, the McRona Burger! Or try the all new McCovid Kid's Meal!
 
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