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Confident Persistance: The Girl Who Cancelled The Date

Giovanni Casanova

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About a month ago, I got the phone number for a girl in my class who seemed at least semi-interested. I called her later that week, and set up a date for the weekend. The next day, she called and left a message saying that her brother was coming into town to help her work on her house, so she would be unavailable that weekend and the next two weekends she was going to be out of town.

I figured she was just blowing me off, but one of my (female) friends told me that she thought the girl was sincere and to give her another shot. I decided to listen to that advice, because I felt I really didn't have much to lose.

I called her up on Friday, and she sounded pretty excited to hear from me. Here's the conversation:

"Hey, it's Gio, from class."

"Hey! How are you?"

"Good," I said. "Are you still booked up until the end of eternity?"

She laughed and said, "Well, like when are you talking about?"

I said, "I don't know, I was thinking roughly... May."

She said, "May is tomorrow."

"Yes, well, I understand that it goes on for a couple of weeks."

"Well, what day are you talking about?"

I figured if I gave her a specific day it would make it easier for her to come up with something else she was doing. So I said, "Hey, look, I'm not the one that has a calendar that's just booked solid with crap to do. I'm spontaneous. I never know from minute to minute what I'll be doing next."

She said, "Well, I'm trying to be like that too. I've got my calendar right in front of me. I don't have anything going on the 7th, that's next Friday. What day do you guys usually have your poker game?"

"Well, usually it's on Fridays, but this week two of the people didn't want to do anything this weekend, and then two others kind of hate each other right now."

"Uh oh."

"Yeah, well, they dated, and that just ruins everything."

She laughed. "True."

"So if we do the poker thing on Friday you want to do that?"

"Sure."

"And if we don't do the poker thing on Friday, did you want to do something?"

"Sure."

"Okay, you go ahead and put that on your calendar. In, like, Magic Marker."

She laughed. "Magic Marker? I don't think I have any of those. But I did write it in ink."

"Well, I'm a man of compromise, I suppose. All right, I'll see you on Monday." (We have class Monday and Wednesday).

"Okay, see you Monday!"

I guess the point, among other things, is that there is something to be said about persistance.
 

Knicknack

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why are you so wishy washy with these girls? you let them walk all over you. tell them when you are going to hang out. don't ask.

the conversation should have went like this:

you: look, i'm busy on thursday and saturday, but friday night i have some spare time. let's go play some cards (or bowl, or eat, whatever...)

you need to be the one calling ALL the shots. there is no "compromise." a 50/50 relationship is the woman running the show.
 

Giovanni Casanova

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I'm not real concerned about "rules" here. I told the girl to come up with a day that would work for her. She did. We're going out. No one walked on anyone.
 

Jay Fiedler

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I have no problem with how you handled this, other than to say it does seem as though your IL is higher than hers, which usually leads to frsutration and getting nowhere. Maybe you can turn it around if/when you finally go out with her. Good luck.
 

Giovanni Casanova

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I'm not sure what her "interest level" is. I don't assign numbers to these sorts of things. A friend of mine from class said that he thought she seemed very interested, but who really knows?

My interest level in her is so-so. She's very attractive, she's intelligent, and she seems pretty nice. But I haven't been dating a whole lot or anything like that and I'm not really sure I want to have any kind of "relationship" right now. That being the case, I'm not really sure how high my interest level could possibly be.

I certainly don't have a lot invested in this girl; I wasn't even going to call her back. Now that we've got (another) date set up, I'm cautiously optimistic.

I'll sum it up this way, from a scene from the show "The West Wing".

DONNA: Please don't get your hopes up.

JOSH: Why shouldn't I get my hopes up?

DONNA: Because when it doesn't work out, you end up drunk in my apartment in the middle of the night and yell at my roommate's cats.

JOSH: Smooth sailing, Donna.

DONNA: Cautious optimism, Josh.

JOSH: Nothing bad is gonna happen this week.

DONNA: Exercise cautious optimism.

JOSH: Look, there is no reason -

A big chunk of the ceiling comes falling down in front of Josh. It crashes in his desk.

JOSH: Well...okay.
 

Crank_It_Up

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congrats on getting another shot Giovanni, hope it works out for ya. However if it doesn't please give her number to backbreaker, he seems to be having major trouble finding any such girl as you described above. where are all the smart georgous girls?
 

Dust 2 Dust

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Thanks for the update. keep us posted about what happens next friday.

I just hate it when guys create threads and ask for advice then they don't update us on what happened afterwards.:cool:
 

Giovanni Casanova

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Originally posted by Crank_It_Up
congrats on getting another shot Giovanni, hope it works out for ya. However if it doesn't please give her number to backbreaker, he seems to be having major trouble finding any such girl as you described above. where are all the smart georgous girls?
Well, I'm not so sure she would appreciate that, but I'll keep him in mind. I've always believed that there's kind of a girl "triad":

SMART
NICE
PRETTY

Some girls (maybe around 5% or so) have very little of any of the above three traits, in other words, they're ugly, dumb, and b*tchy.

A few girls (maybe 35% or so) have one of the above traits in abundance, but is lacking in the other two. For example, a smart girl who is ugly and b*tchy. Or a nice girl who is ugly and dumb. Or a beautiful girl who is dumb and b*tchy.

Other girls (maybe 58%) have two of the above traits, but lack in one of the others. Most girls I know are like this. They are beautiful and nice, but dumb as a brick. Or they are beautiful and smart, but a total b*tch. Or she's nice and smart, but a total dog.

Then there's a small minority (around 3%) of girls who are smart, pretty, and nice. Most of these girls are taken, because they're a hot commodity. If you find one that isn't taken, you must strike. You may also discover as you get closer that she is maybe b*tchier than you thought, or not as smart as you originally imagined.

But the nice, smart, pretty girls are out there. But you have to go through a lot of weeds to find the wildflowers.
 

iqqi

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some of you cats are haters. even if gio's IL was "higher" than chics, so what? someone has to interested in someone for there to ever be something.

most guys are the pursuers period. that is the way it is. girls couldn't play hard to get if guys didn't seem to want to get. get it?

good going, gio. it doesn't seem like you have done anything stupid IMO. it isn't like you have sh!t invested in this girl. you could call her and leave AFC messages singing songs out of tune just for your own entertainment at this point and it wouldn't matter, because who really cares too much at this point?

play on playa.
 

diablo

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Originally posted by iqqi
you could call her and leave AFC messages singing songs out of tune just for your own entertainment
I'd pay good money to have him do that... Perhaps with a guitar, as well.

Smooth conversation, I liked the bit about May going on for a couple of weeks - I'll have add that to my own repitoire. Keep the thread updated on what all goes on with the girl; glad to see that you're back in the mix!
 

desert_dweller5

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Originally posted by Knicknack
you need to be the one calling ALL the shots. there is no "compromise." a 50/50 relationship is the woman running the show.
wow it's no wonder guys have such a bad rap, you are such a male shovanist pig. I'll bet money you've been dumped a few times. relationship is about compromise, ***** is about calling the shots. so if you just want ***** then be a pig if you want a girlfriend be a man

NUFF SAID
 

Giovanni Casanova

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Originally posted by iqqi
it isn't like you have sh!t invested in this girl. you could call her and leave AFC messages singing songs out of tune just for your own entertainment at this point and it wouldn't matter, because who really cares too much at this point?
I think that singing AFC songs out of tune for a girl should be done in person. I'll consider it for Friday.
 

Paradox

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I happen to be a fan of persistance. Sometimes I think we next girls too soon. Also the rules are just guidelines and sometimes the rule book needs to be put down.

I was going to post this on another thread but this is how I got 1 of my girlfriends.

I number closed on her successfully. I called her several days later to make a date. No answer so I left a message for her to call me back (broken rule #1). Of course she didn't call back.

I bumped into her again a week later. She gave the excuse that she was busy. I railed on her for not calling me back (broken rule #2). I set up the date for the following week. She agreed.

On our first date we started at about 2pm, went to a street fair, the movies and then dinner. Our first date lasted 8 hours (broken rule #3).

The second date was dinner and then the the f-close.

I have another story about a model that I persued. I can't tell you how many DJ rules I broke with her but eventually I closed on her too. Sometimes persistance pays off.
 

Giovanni Casanova

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Well, I may have broken several so-called "rules" with this girl (setting a date up on a Friday, being unspecific, only waiting two days to call), but I don't think being persistant is really a violation of the DJ rules per se. If it is, it shouldn't be.

My namesake, the real life Giovanni Casanova, was notoriously persistant with women. Unlike myself, the real-life Giovanni Casanova would focus entirely on one woman, as his goal was to make her feel as if she was the only woman in the world and the only way to that was to actually see her that way. If most of us saw him in action, there would be loud cries of "oneitis". But he used this technique and had good results.

Like myself, the real-life Giovanni Casanova was persistant enough not to take the first "no" for an answer when it came to relationships/courting. This attitude can indicate the confidence of a man who is not used to hearing "no", and a man who is bold and daring enough to pursue what he wants, despite any obstacles.

This can certainly be viewed both ways (the guy who walks away after the first "no" wants to convey that he is "too valuable" to waste his time with the girl). Both viewpoints have certain merits. However, whenever I have walked away after the first "no", I have never gotten with the girl I walked away from (obviously). But when I used confident persistence, I have successfully gotten the girl twice (this might make three times).

Food for thought, at any rate.
 
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Congradulations on getting a date out of this one. I do have a few suggestions for the future.

Your statements:

"So if we do the poker thing on Friday you want to do that?"


"And if we don't do the poker thing on Friday, did you want to do something?"

Are weak. You should always be sure of yourself.

When you asked her "did you want to do something?" that lacked power in your game.

Your the prize to be won. Your the captain of your ship. Your the man and she is the woman.

My style is to give directions:

"I'm doing this poker thing Friday nite and I want you to come along with me, Is 7pm a good time to pick you up?"

or

"If for some reason the poker thing doesn't kick it, then we will do something else and I will be there at 7pm sharp so I want you ready willing and able!"

I think in Sales these type of statments are called the "alternate advance", according to Real Estate pro Tom Hopkins. You do not give a choice of no but offer a definate path of course your path...I think to of made it a correct alternate advance you would offer...picking her up at 7pm or you would say "or would 7:30 be better for you.

You give her a choice between 2 things but they are still your things and NO never comes into the equation.
 

Knicknack

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Originally posted by Player_Supreme
Congradulations on getting a date out of this one. I do have a few suggestions for the future.

Your statements:

"So if we do the poker thing on Friday you want to do that?"


"And if we don't do the poker thing on Friday, did you want to do something?"

Are weak. You should always be sure of yourself.

When you asked her "did you want to do something?" that lacked power in your game.

Your the prize to be won. Your the captain of your ship. Your the man and she is the woman.

My style is to give directions:

"I'm doing this poker thing Friday nite and I want you to come along with me, Is 7pm a good time to pick you up?"

or

"If for some reason the poker thing doesn't kick it, then we will do something else and I will be there at 7pm sharp so I want you ready willing and able!"

I think in Sales these type of statments are called the "alternate advance", according to Real Estate pro Tom Hopkins. You do not give a choice of no but offer a definate path of course your path...I think to of made it a correct alternate advance you would offer...picking her up at 7pm or you would say "or would 7:30 be better for you.

You give her a choice between 2 things but they are still your things and NO never comes into the equation.
thanks for saying what i was too lazy to type out... you hit it right on the head.
 

crowes22

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Originally posted by Knicknack
thanks for saying what i was too lazy to type out... you hit it right on the head.
Nah, actually, Casanova is the one that is 'right on'. Player and Knicknack need some real experience, as I once did.

All your bravado won't pay off boys, I don't care what you say.

You are the prize, but don't let her know that, not yet, she has to be won, as do you...someone has to initiate/pursue. If you are waiting for her to do that, then keep on doing well, ya know, what it is you are doing. It'll get you well, where you are likely.

Recall..sex/dates are a given for women, are they for you?

Good luck Casanova.

--Crowes
 
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Crowe your forgetting the elements of game.

Chase a ho get a chumps cop. What that means is that if you chase after a woman too hard you get played.

My advice was just to merely reverse the game a bit and give alternative ways of phrasing his words so he ups his score record much easier.

reverse the game and you will come out on top.

Remember women do the choosing. If she is already digging him then he is 2 steps ahead. All he has to do is play his cards right and he can conquer her instead of becoming another notch on her belt.

As far as my experience...lol. Now that's funny! After all of the proof I've put on up this site now that's real funny. lol@ya.
 

Giovanni Casanova

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Originally posted by Player_Supreme
I think in Sales these type of statments are called the "alternate advance", according to Real Estate pro Tom Hopkins. You do not give a choice of no but offer a definate path of course your path...I think to of made it a correct alternate advance you would offer...picking her up at 7pm or you would say "or would 7:30 be better for you.

You give her a choice between 2 things but they are still your things and NO never comes into the equation.
All right, here's the thing. There's nothing wrong with what you're talking about in SOME situations, I've done this myself before.

But it really does depend on the girl, and part of this whole thing is figuring out what kind of girl you're dealing with here. Is this the kind of girl who will respond well to a guy who says, "Me knock you on the head and drag you back to me cave"? There are some girls who like a guy that tells her what to do.

But there are other girls who will be absolutely turned OFF by the guy who "assumes the sale", so to speak.

The rest depends on a guy's style.

For your style, you use a "salesman" style. You assume the sale, you frame your questions so that "no" isn't an obvious choice. You push the girl in the direction you want her to go. This works with some girls, but certainly not all.

My style is more of an "attorney" style. While the first rule of a salesman is to assume the sale, the first rule of an attorney is "Only ask questions you know the answer to." In this case, I knew she would say yes (I could tell by her attitude on the phone) and I therefore didn't have to worry that the "no" option was on the table -- she wouldn't take it. All I was doing was getting it "on the record" that we would go out.

And at the same time, I didn't have to worrry about coming across as kind of slimy. You know when you go to buy something and you're not sure exactly what you want, but the salesman kind of pressures you into selling you what he wants to sell you? And you feel kind of resentful toward the salesman, because he was only after what was best for him, not what was in your mutual best interests? That's how a girl can feel if you say, "This is what we're doing, and I will pick you up at this time." Even if she says yes.
 

Genghis Juan

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I think Confident Persistence is a good technique on girls who are more conservative and less likely to jump into relationships or bed with just any guy.

I think if one adheres to screening out girls who don't exhibit a high immediate interest level, alot of the girls you attract will tend to be sluttier or relationship monkeys (swing from one Rship to the other).
 
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