Comedian Russell Brand found guilty by UK court of rape and sexual assaults

[BaronOfHair]

It's the current powerful taking down either the old powerful (Brand) or the potential new powerful (Tommy Robinson, Danny Tommo).

A story as old as time...

Another explanation:

-As a species, we're not predisposed towards giving those who physically resemble the rabble more strongly than they do the glitterati benefits of the doubt. It's long been joked that Brand somehow looks as if he's never come within 500 miles of a bath tub, despite being a multimillionaire

-Nothing provides The 5-0 and our judiciary with stronger PR than excising those who seem "too different" from "the norm" out of general society

-General society, on some level, also yearns for a Messianic force that'll "keep us safe" from such individuals. It's not a coincidence that what Radley Balko has dubbed The Rise Of The Warrior Cop began around '73, when Middle America no longer found The Counterculture cute

-ESPECIALLY if that individual is famous for trying to appear like the smartest person in the room, or/and more righteous than the rest of us mere mortals art

-Washed up/Near Washed up celebrities who meet one or both these criterias are prime targets for such takedowns

Whether or not he's guilty of the charges he's been convicted, the public image Brand designed essentially inked him up in a full-body target. Had such accusations been hurled at someone like Zac Efron, public support for the accusers would be considerably less powerful, and the prosecution would've found making these charges stick a far more daunting task than they did Brand



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[Slowhandluke]

I didnt read the whole thread, but I think Elon makes women sign a contract before sleeping with them. Its been working. Also, I hear NFL players record the sexual act. if you have money, I guess thats what needs to be done.

 

[Westminster]

Another explanation:

-As a species, we're not predisposed towards giving those who physically resemble the rabble more strongly than they do the glitterati benefits of the doubt. It's long been joked that Brand somehow looks as if he's never come within 500 miles of a bath tub, despite being a multimillionaire

-Nothing provides The 5-0 and our judiciary with stronger PR than excising those who seem "too different" from "the norm" out of general society

-General society, on some level, also yearns for a Messianic force that'll "keep us safe" from such individuals. It's not a coincidence that what Radley Balko has dubbed The Rise Of The Warrior Cop began around '73, when Middle America no longer found The Counterculture cute

-ESPECIALLY if that individual is famous for trying to appear like the smartest person in the room, or/and more righteous than the rest of us mere mortals art

-Washed up/Near Washed up celebrities who meet one or both these criterias are prime targets for such takedowns

Whether or not he's guilty of the charges he's been convicted, the public image Brand designed essentially inked him up in a full-body target. Had such accusations been hurled at someone like Zac Efron, public support for the accusers would be considerably less powerful, and the prosecution would've found making these charges stick a far more daunting task than they did Brand



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There are perhaps elements of that but the main reason for the Brand saga is, in my mind, related to a more general shift in the social and cultural zeitgeist, especially in the Anglophone nations.

The point being that all our institutions - media, government, education, social services, policing, law etc. - are now overwhelmingly liberal in outlook and basically anti-male in their operations.

I have no idea whether Brand is guilty or not but there is not enough evidence to convict him in English criminal law (ie. beyond reasonable doubt) and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been found guilty 20 or 30 years ago. But it seems that men are presumed guilty nowadays if accused by a woman, whatever the alleged crime may be. It's the same in family law.

It is actually highly unlikely that Brand would have even come to trial years ago as nobody ever went to the police to complain about him. This whole sandal only broke due to a TV documentary and complaints solicited by its maker. Then the whole thing gathered pace from there.

 

[Identikit_Radiohead]

There are perhaps elements of that but the main reason for the Brand saga is, in my mind, related to a more general shift in the social and cultural zeitgeist, especially in the Anglophone nations.

The point being that all our institutions - media, government, education, social services, policing, law etc. - are now overwhelmingly liberal in outlook and basically anti-male in their operations.

I have no idea whether Brand is guilty or not but there is not enough evidence to convict him in English criminal law (ie. beyond reasonable doubt) and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have been found guilty 20 or 30 years ago. But it seems that men are presumed guilty nowadays if accused by a woman, whatever the alleged crime may be. It's the same in family law.

It is actually highly unlikely that Brand would have even come to trial years ago as nobody ever went to the police to complain about him. This whole sandal only broke due to a TV documentary and complaints solicited by its maker. Then the whole thing gathered pace from there.

Yeah, I'm sure if Brand was reported in 1999 instead of 2020's it would of never been brought to court.

His Vape charge of 9 years was harsh. A consnesual sex act that "got a bit rough" and he went for the backdoor donut. She was regularly having sex with him as well, not just once.

Do men need to take a checklist of sexual things they would want to do with a woman and she either ticks a box for a [] "yes" or [x] for a "no", and then signs it with her signature? In any event she could still lie about it. So men need cameras and audio on now during every consensual sex act? See how clown worldly it gets.

The Police also like a lack of evidence in sex cases. Too much evidence which will acquit the accused means it'll never go to court/trial. So the police have to drop the case.

 

[Westminster]

Yeah, I'm sure if Brand was reported in 1999 instead of 2020's it would of never been brought to court.

His Vape charge of 9 years was harsh. A consnesual sex act that "got a bit rough" and he went for the backdoor donut. She was regularly having sex with him as well, not just once.

Do men need to take a checklist of sexual things they would want to do with a woman and she either ticks a box for a [] "yes" or [x] for a "no", and then signs it with her signature? In any event she could still lie about it. So men need cameras and audio on now during every consensual sex act? See how clown worldly it gets.

The Police also like a lack of evidence in sex cases. Too much evidence which will acquit the accused means it'll never go to court/trial. So the police have to drop the case.

It's not the police who decide whether a case goes to court. They gather the evidence and submit it to the CPS, which then decides whether to charge.

 

[Identikit_Radiohead]

It's not the police who decide whether a case goes to court. They gather the evidence and submit it to the CPS, which then decides whether to charge.

Is hearsay or "she said, he said" enough for the Police to submit it to the CPS?

Look at the Gemma beale case where several men who were strangers, were jailed

Jemma Beale: Rape claim 'liar' loses conviction appeal

Jemma Beale was jailed in 2017 for making false rape and sexual assault allegations against men.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Westminster]

Is hearsay or "she said, he said" enough for the Police to submit it to the CPS?

Look at the Gemma beale case where several men who were strangers, were jailed

Jemma Beale: Rape claim 'liar' loses conviction appeal

Jemma Beale was jailed in 2017 for making false rape and sexual assault allegations against men.

www.bbc.co.uk

The police are meant to make a prima face judgement before they submit anything to the CPS. So, anything that lacks credibility or is obviously fabricated should not go forward. The police are, however, under significant pressure to pursue sex offences against women, so I am sure things go to the CPS now that wouldn't have done so twenty years ago.

"She said, he said" cases are less likely to go to the CPS than if there is corroborating evidence, but cases where there are multiple accusations are more likely to go to the CPS than one-off cases.

ps. Yes, I think I have seen that case before. It makes you wonder how many innocent men are in jail for such offences.

 

[user2827]

I didnt read the whole thread, but I think Elon makes women sign a contract before sleeping with them. Its been working. Also, I hear NFL players record the sexual act. if you have money, I guess thats what needs to be done.

I've heard similar with the NBA, telling the players that if they have sex to use a condom and after to tie it up and throw it out somewhere else, because of the risk that the women will try to get pregnant.

 

[Identikit_Radiohead]

I've heard similar with the NBA, telling the players that if they have sex to use a condom and after to tie it up and throw it out somewhere else, because of the risk that the women will try to get pregnant.

Or she could get the condom out the bin and smear it on her dress/pants/clothes. Keep that item of clothing for 10+ years and claim you raped her 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years in the future. Now they have DNA evidence on her clothes from years ago.

 

[BaronOfHair]

The point being that all our institutions - media, government, education, social services, policing, law etc. - are now overwhelmingly liberal in outlook and basically anti-male in their operations.

Overwhelmingly PROGRESSIVE, and not remotely liberal in the sense described here

1:00 -1:25

The typical Bible humping, Fox Non-News adled Conservative actually shares The Progressive's predilection for believing/"protecting" women and everyone who's labelled marginalized. Even when said protection = "Protecting" said folks from the truth

 

[user2827]

Or she could get the condom out the bin and smear it on her dress/pants/clothes. Keep that item of clothing for 10+ years and claim you raped her 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years in the future. Now they have DNA evidence on her clothes from years ago.

To clarify, they are allegedly instructed to bring the condoms when they leave...

The threat of a rape accusation is real for sure, especially where the burden on the accuser gets watered down like we've seen. However, extorting a pro athlete for potentially millions of dollar per year in child support would still be the more lucrative option if it can be made to happen.

 

[Hal9000]

Regardless of what you think about this specific case, the ability of a woman to get someone thrown in prison for sexual assault decades after the fact based on zero evidence other than a he said/she said scenario should be pretty terrifying to most men. How would any of you defend yourselves from an accusation from twenty years ago if this ever happened to you?

 

[pipeman84]

Regardless of what you think about this specific case, the ability of a woman to get someone thrown in prison for sexual assault decades after the fact based on zero evidence other than a he said/she said scenario should be pretty terrifying to most men. How would any of you defend yourselves from an accusation from twenty years ago if this ever happened to you?

Zero evidence... One just has to view some clips of Brand from that era to conclude he's a POS.

That's a manosphere myth, that all a woman has to do is go to the police or take part in a media investigation and the guy goes to jail, particularly if he's wealthy. I call BS on that. First off, for false allegations one can go to prison (and there's been cases in the UK of false accusations of rape where the women were thrown in jail). Secondly, even if she escapes the police, she messes around with the wrong wealthy guy and he can bankrupt her.

So no, this can't happen to any guy just because he was a 2 pump chump 20 years ago and the girl was left unsatisfied.
What's left for guys like Brand who are guilty as hell if the sh!t hits the fan (for him it started in 2023) is to move to a jurisdiction where such crimes from decades ago aren't considered (Dubai probably is one). If they're stupid enough to remain in the UK and play the victim card (oh, they're after me because I challenged the official Covid narrative and such nonsense), then don't complain if you end up in jail and you're bled dry through civil lawsuits.

Previous posters mentioned Andrew Tate ... that's a perfect example of how hubris and stupidity brings one down. The brothers were investigated in Romania and the UK and the case got hotter and hotter. What do they decide to do? Instead of laying low in Dubai or some place, they go to Florida. Ok, then, have fun in US and UK prisons.

 

[Westminster]

Zero evidence... One just has to view some clips of Brand from that era to conclude he's a POS.

That's a manosphere myth, that all a woman has to do is go to the police or take part in a media investigation and the guy goes to jail, particularly if he's wealthy. I call BS on that. First off, for false allegations one can go to prison (and there's been cases in the UK of false accusations of rape where the women were thrown in jail). Secondly, even if she escapes the police, she messes around with the wrong wealthy guy and he can bankrupt her.

So no, this can't happen to any guy just because he was a 2 pump chump 20 years ago and the girl was left unsatisfied.
What's left for guys like Brand who are guilty as hell if the sh!t hits the fan (for him it started in 2023) is to move to a jurisdiction where such crimes from decades ago aren't considered (Dubai probably is one). If they're stupid enough to remain in the UK and play the victim card (oh, they're after me because I challenged the official Covid narrative and such nonsense), then don't complain if you end up in jail and you're bled dry through civil lawsuits.

Previous posters mentioned Andrew Tate ... that's a perfect example of how hubris and stupidity brings one down. The brothers were investigated in Romania and the UK and the case got hotter and hotter. What do they decide to do? Instead of laying low in Dubai or some place, they go to Florida. Ok, then, have fun in US and UK prisons.

Being a POS doesn't necessarily make you a rapist though, that's the point in this case - coupled with the fact that Brand's conviction is purely based on verbal allegations, which is highly unusual. But I also think it sets a dangerous precedent.

It is moreover very, very rare in England that a woman is punished for false allegations as there is a belief that it would deter other women from making more founded allegations - because, in theory, any allegation becomes false if the man is found innocent.

Consequently, rape allegations are effectively a free hit for a scorned woman, if she's vindictive enough. There also often used in divorce cases to stop a man seeing his children.

Leaving that aside, laying low in Dubai wouldn't have done Brand or the Tate's any good as Dubai has an extradition traety with the UK. It would have to be somewhere more obscure like Vietnam or Venezuela.

NB. None of the above means that I think Brand is innocent by the way. On the balance of probability, I think he did it, but that's the burden of proof needed under civil law. Under criminal law, it needs to be beyound reasonable doubt - and Idon't think the evidence pit to the court proved that.

 

[pipeman84]

Being a POS doesn't necessarily make you a rapist though, that's the point in this case - coupled with the fact that Brand's conviction is purely based on verbal allegations, which is highly unusual. But I also think it sets a dangerous precedent.

Him being a POS was just the start, as it made the allegations credible. He was convicted based on the testimonies of the victims and other witnesses.

Consequently, rape allegations are effectively a free hit for a scorned woman, if she's vindictive enough. There also often used in divorce cases to stop a man seeing his children.

There has to be some truth to it, there have to be witnesses (or do you assume her girlfriends will perjure themselves for her?) and she has to be an Oscar worthy actress to have a case, otherwise she's the one going to jail or losing custody of kids.

Leaving that aside, laying low in Dubai wouldn't have done Brand or the Tate's any good as Dubai has an extradition traety with the UK. It would have to be somewhere more obscure like Vietnam or Venezuela.

At least Top G wouldn't be in a US jail cell right now, but in a Dubai villa on house arrest fighting the extradition to the UK.
My point is that these guys not only did much more than they're accused of, but they also suffer from a martyr complex or something ... when you don't have a chance in hell of beating the charges, you flee, you don't play the tough guy on social media and fly to Florida.

 

[Sega Genesis]

@pipeman84 in the Cornell 7 case in the US, that's exactly what one of the defendants did (in the civil action, no criminal charges have been brought as of yet).

He fled to Dubai. There is no extradition treaty between Dubai and U.S.

they also suffer from a martyr complex or something ... when you don't have a chance in hell of beating the charges, you flee, you don't play the tough guy on social media and fly to Florida.

RB has become a Christian in recent years; in an interview with Megyn Kelly it was stated that this may be part of his spiritual journey and perhaps something good might come from it like helping other prison inmates and/or contributing to the greater good in other ways.

He seems resigned to his fate almost as if he expected it and on some level believes he deserved it.

I could be wrong, just my sense from listening to his various interviews before he was convicted.

Many people believe 10 5 years was too harsh, but he will serve 7.5 in prison, then be released on license (similar to parole in the U.S).

 

[Westminster]

Him being a POS was just the start, as it made the allegations credible. He was convicted based on the testimonies of the victims and other witnesses.

There has to be some truth to it, there have to be witnesses (or do you assume her girlfriends will perjure themselves for her?) and she has to be an Oscar worthy actress to have a case, otherwise she's the one going to jail or losing custody of kids.

At least Top G wouldn't be in a US jail cell right now, but in a Dubai villa on house arrest fighting the extradition to the UK.
My point is that these guys not only did much more than they're accused of, but they also suffer from a martyr complex or something ... when you don't have a chance in hell of beating the charges, you flee, you don't play the tough guy on social media and fly to Florida.

First, none of the alleged rapes were witnessed by a third party. The rape charges were based only on allegations made by the victims.

Second, there doesn't have to be any truth to it. Nor is making unfounded allegations necessarily perjury. Nor would they go to jail if their alleagtions were not founded. Nor would they lose custody of their children.

Third, having said that, I do think that Brand could be found guilty on the balance of probability on the basis of the accusations against him. But not beyond reasonable doubt (the criminal burden of proof). But I've alredy said that.

 

[Westminster]

@pipeman84 in the Cornell 7 case in the US, that's exactly what one of the defendants did (in the civil action, no criminal charges have been brought as of yet).

He fled to Dubai. There is no extradition treaty between Dubai and U.S.



RB has become a Christian in recent years; in an interview with Megyn Kelly it was stated that this may be part of his spiritual journey and perhaps something good might come from it like helping other prison inmates and/or contributing to the greater good in other ways.

He seems resigned to his fate almost as if he expected it and on some level believes he deserved it.

I could be wrong, just my sense from listening to his various interviews before he was convicted.

Many people 10 5 years is too much, but he will serve 7.5 in prison, then be released on license (similar to parole in the U.S).

Brand is British. There is an extradition agreement between the UK and Dubai.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Brand is British. There is an extradition agreement between the UK and Dubai.

I am aware of that. To @piperman's general point about fleeing I was referring to what one of the defendant's did in the Cornell 7 case.

@pipeman84 in the Cornell 7 case in the US, that's exactly what one of the defendants did (in the civil action, no criminal charges have been brought as of yet).

 

[pipeman84]

RB has become a Christian in recent years; in an interview with Megyn Kelly it was stated that this may be part of his spiritual journey and perhaps something good might come from it like helping other prison inmates and/or contributing to the greater good in other ways.

He seems resigned to his fate almost as if he expected it and on some level believes he deserved it.

There's that saying ... a leopard cannot change its spots. And I read he spent $1.34M on his defence, so that doesn't sound like he was resigned.

Many people believe 10 5 years was too harsh, but he will serve 7.5 in prison, then be released on license (similar to parole in the U.S).

On the face of it, yes. But in his case there are aggravating circumstances (being a POS for years, not admitting guilt and so on). It wasn't an one off, out of character thing ... just the tip of the iceberg.