Coffee dates

[SW15]

have an in person, phone or visual call
Then go get the coffee together and flirt in line, including leaving room for kino
Then go walk around, leave door open for kino
Then have sex
= profit

total spend $11

There's a flaw with that plan. Sometimes coffee shops aren't walkable to some other interesting places. It depends on the city and location of the coffee place within that city. Details matter.

It's a more difficult ask to get a female to join you in your car and drive to a park or more walkable spot.

The best plan to select a coffee shop that is in a walkable part of a city. One that is walkable to a park or walking path.

 

[BadBoy89]

A woman who is actually interested in you DOES NOT CARE how much money you spend on a first date.

In fact, the more money a woman expects you to spend, the less attracted they are to you... essentially you are paying them to be there to make it worth their while.

There is no women in her 30s who is NOT going to care how much a man spends on a 1st date. There is no women in her 30s who is going to enjoy mini golf on her first date. There is no women in her 30s who wants to go hiking on a first date. A woman in her 30s wants to be wined and dined, she wants the RICH man.

Now if the woman is a 21 year old virgin or has limited sexual experience, THEN she will not care how much a man spends on a 1st date. Then she will not care how rich the man is. Then she will enjoy a round of mini golf on 1st date. Then she will enjoy a coffee date.

I feel like all advice given on Sosuave and on dating sites is either for Hot Virgin Women or Older Experienced Women. Nothing in between.

 

[SW15]

A woman in her 30s wants to be wined and dined, she wants the RICH man.

Looks, money, status, and personality.

Money becomes a more important variable for men 30+. This is true whether a man wants to date 10+ years younger or women near his age in his 30s/40s.

I think a man can get away with not being rich in his 30s/40s if he maxes out the other variables.

It's common for white collar men in their 30s/40s to lead with their wallets.

There is no women in her 30s who is going to enjoy mini golf on her first date. There is no women in her 30s who wants to go hiking on a first date.

Mini golf and hiking are more commonly used as 2nd dates when they are used as dates. It's possible to use them as first dates under some conditions.

I disagree with your statement. At the same time, it's unlikely that I would schedule those as first dates with a woman in her 30s.

I schedule bar dates most of the time.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

There is no women in her 30s who is NOT going to care how much a man spends on a 1st date. There is no women in her 30s who is going to enjoy mini golf on her first date. There is no women in her 30s who wants to go hiking on a first date. A woman in her 30s wants to be wined and dined, she wants the RICH man.

Now if the woman is a 21 year old virgin or has limited sexual experience, THEN she will not care how much a man spends on a 1st date. Then she will not care how rich the man is. Then she will enjoy a round of mini golf on 1st date. Then she will enjoy a coffee date.

I feel like all advice given on Sosuave and on dating sites is either for Hot Virgin Women or Older Experienced Women. Nothing in between.

Sure there are. I've gone on dates where I don't spend a dime and we just walked and talked in a park.

Perhaps that says more about you than anything else that you think this and what you have seen from personal experience.

Don't assume everyone else has those same experiences as you do

 

[BillyPilgrim]

There's a flaw with that plan. Sometimes coffee shops aren't walkable to some other interesting places. It depends on the city and location of the coffee place within that city. Details matter.

It's a more difficult ask to get a female to join you in your car and drive to a park or more walkable spot.

The best plan to select a coffee shop that is in a walkable part of a city. One that is walkable to a park or walking path.

Not if you use Blackdragon's day 2 sex plan, no walking necessary

 

[SW15]

Not if you use Blackdragon's day 2 sex plan, no walking necessary

I have heard of Caleb Jones' (aka Alpha Male 2.0 and Blackdragon) fast sex plan. It usually consists of a short first date that doesn't involve kissing and much kino escalation and then a second date where there is sex. I think a coffee shop date was his typical first date. If so, his system might work for coffee shop dates.

I haven't read all the details on that one.

Caleb Jones has some good ideas but some of his other ideas are less good.

In the Manosphere, I think he was a bit discredited when PUA Nick Krauser wrote a hit piece on him in 2019....

BlackDragon is a pathetic delusional cuck

I promised myself that this year I would resist the temptation to play PUA Police. The world is so full of bull****ters and charlatans that exposing them is like a game of whack-a-mole. A wannabe s…

krauserpua.com

 

[CoolWave1331]

Wow so much pushback for coffee date lol

Most people drink, either make at home or purchase from coffee shop. Lots of women go and grab with their friends, chat etc. This makes a good setting for date - if she likes you & wants to get to know you she's not going to care what you suggest at first.

There are so many alternatives for first date. Coffee one in which can sit down and have a chat and then assess whether worth spending anymore time. In many cases the person is a stranger- those not make sense to do something extravagant/spend a lot of money on someone you don't know. Maybe within half hour realize the person talking to you is not someone you want to get to know further.

The people who spend $100+ or more first date I wonder if they value their money

 

[Divorced w 3]

There's a flaw with that plan. Sometimes coffee shops aren't walkable to some other interesting places. It depends on the city and location of the coffee place within that city. Details matter.

It's a more difficult ask to get a female to join you in your car and drive to a park or more walkable spot.

The best plan to select a coffee shop that is in a walkable part of a city. One that is walkable to a park or walking path.

Of course. It’s a simple structure for getting the chance to build rapport and move the date and the sexual chemistry further ahead.

I met a woman once after work and maybe bought a drink and some sliders, and she started offering to take her card out and pay for things. She said maybe within 30 minutes we should head back to her place. I didn’t feel like it, it was maybe only 5pm and I wanted to have a little fun out socially, but it was cheap and it did result in hooking up. And it wasn’t the only time. So in terms of general structure and associated costs, I am speaking from experience.

Guys really need to go read the book of pook as well as anti dumps machine. The basics must be stressed.

 

[SW15]

so much pushback for coffee date

Coffee dates are a controversial subject because they are a difficult date format. It's not easy to get first date sex from a coffee shop date.

Coffee shops are a neutral environment and not very sexually charged. It's difficult to construct a very sexual frame sitting inside of a coffee shop. Coffee shops contribute to a scenario where two people have a neutral time together in most cases. The woman (the gatekeeper to sex) will go on a coffee shop with a man and have a pleasant time but likely not feel "the spark", "the right vibes", or "all the feelz". Without the immediate sexual feelings, women won't even show up for a second date anymore. Most women have far too abundance anymore to try to let "the spark" develop. The sexual spark must be there immediately.

In the post sexual revolution, pre-internet and even very early internet era (1980s - early 2000s), few women had true abundance and might be willing to be patient enough with an interaction to see it through to a 2nd or 3rd date. Now, that doesn't happen.

I don't see the coffee shop date as a first date being useful in today's dating environment.

The people who spend $100+ or more first date I wonder if they value their money

Everything is getting more expensive. $100 for a first date in a big USA city (particularly the Northeast and West Coast cities) isn't that far fetched of an idea anymore.

In the late 1990s/early 2000s, radio host Tom Leykis proposed capping spending on early stage, pre-sex dates at $40. Earlier in this thread, I used a Consumer Price Index calculator to show that $40 in April 1998 was equivalent to $78.96 in April 2025. The $40 Leykis 101 rule is now something like $70-$80 today.

I'm in one of the biggest USA cities (though not on the coasts). Things are expensive here.

I can keep my first date costs at bars under $70 and have a more sexually charged atmosphere on my 1st and 2nd dates. I can even keep them under $50.

There are so many alternatives for first date. Coffee one in which can sit down and have a chat and then assess whether worth spending anymore time. In many cases the person is a stranger- those not make sense to do something extravagant/spend a lot of money on someone you don't know. Maybe within half hour realize the person talking to you is not someone you want to get to know further.

The way that people date in developed Western countries has changed in the last 20-25 years.

People now arrange more dates with technology instead of through real life interactions. A lot of these dates probably would not and should not have happened without technology.

I think the solution is not trying to arrange more dates. The emphasis needs to be fewer, but higher quality dates. I don't think a coffee shop date is a high quality date because it does not create "the spark" I mentioned above.

Men tend to do a poor job screening candidates for dates. Men tend to be more concerned with quantity of dates rather than wanting quality dates. It's better to go on fewer dates but with the right people and in the right format of dates.

The typical man is swiping, DMing, and texting to arrange dates with strangers he hasn't effectively pre-screened.

 

[SW15]

It’s a simple structure for getting the chance to build rapport and move the date and the sexual chemistry further ahead.

A coffee shop doesn't accomplish that because it isn't a sexually charged environment.

I met a woman once after work and maybe bought a drink and some sliders, and she started offering to take her card out and pay for things. She said maybe within 30 minutes we should head back to her place. I didn’t feel like it, it was maybe only 5pm and I wanted to have a little fun out socially, but it was cheap and it did result in hooking up. And it wasn’t the only time. So in terms of general structure and associated costs, I am speaking from experience.

First, this is a bar/restaurant date and not a coffee shop date. Dates with food are a different subject.

Second, this date was an awesome date for you. You deserve praise for getting laid on that date. However, this date seems closer to an outlier type event than something that would be a regular experience for a lot of men.

I like the idea of getting to sex that fast.

 

[Divorced w 3]

A coffee shop doesn't accomplish that because it isn't a sexually charged environment.



First, this is a bar/restaurant date and not a coffee shop date. Dates with food are a different subject.

Second, this date was an awesome date for you. You deserve praise for getting laid on that date. However, this date seems closer to an outlier type event than something that would be a regular experience for a lot of men.

I like the idea of getting to sex that fast.

I’m sure we all do lol

And to be sure I’m not suggesting spending any more time than necessary in the coffee shop. grab your coffee flirt on the cashier line and then get the **** out of there. Go walk around and do something,

I totally agree. Has to be in a more concentrated environment, like a town with a good downtown or a city.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Coffee dates are a controversial subject because they are a difficult date format. It's not easy to get first date sex from a coffee shop date.

Coffee shops are a neutral environment and not very sexually charged. It's difficult to construct a very sexual frame sitting inside of a coffee shop. Coffee shops contribute to a scenario where two people have a neutral time together in most cases. The woman (the gatekeeper to sex) will go on a coffee shop with a man and have a pleasant time but likely not feel "the spark", "the right vibes", or "all the feelz". Without the immediate sexual feelings, women won't even show up for a second date anymore. Most women have far too abundance anymore to try to let "the spark" develop. The sexual spark must be there immediately.

In the post sexual revolution, pre-internet and even very early internet era (1980s - early 2000s), few women had true abundance and might be willing to be patient enough with an interaction to see it through to a 2nd or 3rd date. Now, that doesn't happen.

I don't see the coffee shop date as a first date being useful in today's dating environment.



Everything is getting more expensive. $100 for a first date in a big USA city (particularly the Northeast and West Coast cities) isn't that far fetched of an idea anymore.

In the late 1990s/early 2000s, radio host Tom Leykis proposed capping spending on early stage, pre-sex dates at $40. Earlier in this thread, I used a Consumer Price Index calculator to show that $40 in April 1998 was equivalent to $78.96 in April 2025. The $40 Leykis 101 rule is now something like $70-$80 today.

I'm in one of the biggest USA cities (though not on the coasts). Things are expensive here.

I can keep my first date costs at bars under $70 and have a more sexually charged atmosphere on my 1st and 2nd dates. I can even keep them under $50.



The way that people date in developed Western countries has changed in the last 20-25 years.

People now arrange more dates with technology instead of through real life interactions. A lot of these dates probably would not and should not have happened without technology.

I think the solution is not trying to arrange more dates. The emphasis needs to be fewer, but higher quality dates. I don't think a coffee shop date is a high quality date because it does not create "the spark" I mentioned above.

Men tend to do a poor job screening candidates for dates. Men tend to be more concerned with quantity of dates rather than wanting quality dates. It's better to go on fewer dates but with the right people and in the right format of dates.

The typical man is swiping, DMing, and texting to arrange dates with strangers he hasn't effectively pre-screened.

For me it just goes back to probability. What is the probable outcome of a coffee date versus a non coffee date?

Did coffee dates before, some that seemingly went well and nothing came of those.

Maybe some guys can make them work, I just don't want to waste time going on coffee dates and struggling when I can go on other dates and typically not struggle.

You play to your strengths, not your weaknesses, unless you have no choice and then you focus on turning weaknesses into a strength, but that's going to take a lot of time and effort that is otherwise needlessly spent in this context

 

[Solomon]

For me it just goes back to probability. What is the probable outcome of a coffee date versus a non coffee date?

Did coffee dates before, some that seemingly went well and nothing came of those.

Maybe some guys can make them work, I just don't want to waste time going on coffee dates and struggling when I can go on other dates and typically not struggle.

You play to your strengths, not your weaknesses, unless you have no choice and then you focus on turning weaknesses into a strength, but that's going to take a lot of time and effort that is otherwise needlessly spent in this context

I think Coffee dates are great for vibe checks, however, I prefer drink dates. Coffee dates can be quick. The thing is though due to my schedule coffee dates are not realistic. I work during the day and sometimes on weekends(my own business I'm trying to get going), I can't be bothered waking up early or leaving in the afternoon just to drink coffee.

I think happy hour dates with no food are the best, but that's just my MO

 

[SW15]

it just goes back to probability. What is the probable outcome of a coffee date versus a non coffee date?

This is a great way to look at it. I do not perceive the probable outcome of a coffee date as a better outcome than a non-coffee date.

It might work as an instantaneous date off of a bookstore approach, but there's not much of a probability of that situation emerging.

Maybe some guys can make them work, I just don't want to waste time going on coffee dates and struggling when I can go on other dates and typically not struggle.

You play to your strengths, not your weaknesses, unless you have no choice and then you focus on turning weaknesses into a strength, but that's going to take a lot of time and effort that is otherwise needlessly spent in this context

I also do not wish to waste time trying to figure out how to make a coffee shop date work.

I'm also an infrequent coffee and tea drinker. That also doesn't help me in making the coffee shop date format work well for me.

I’m not suggesting spending any more time than necessary in the coffee shop. grab your coffee flirt on the cashier line and then get the **** out of there. Go walk around and do something,

I totally agree. Has to be in a more concentrated environment, like a town with a good downtown or a city.

This is more of an outdoor walk/park date than a coffee shop date. The coffee shop portion of it is insignificant.

I can think of one coffee shop in my city that is very close to a major urban walking path. Getting a coffee at that shop and then walking on the path is a reasonable date in my city. However, the parking near that coffee shop is difficult. I wouldn't suggest a woman meet me at that coffee shop if she doesn't already live within walking distance of that coffee shop.

I think Coffee dates are great for vibe checks... Coffee dates can be quick.

An in-person approach should be a vibe check, not a scheduled coffee shop date.

The overreliance on tech methods for arranging dates is what keeps the topic of coffee shop dates a relevant discussion topic.

I prefer drink dates.

I think happy hour dates with no food are the best, but that's just my MO

Alcoholic drinks in bars with no food are the best first dates.

 

[Divorced w 3]

This is a great way to look at it. I do not perceive the probable outcome of a coffee date as a better outcome than a non-coffee date.

It might work as an instantaneous date off of a bookstore approach, but there's not much of a probability of that situation emerging.



I also do not wish to waste time trying to figure out how to make a coffee shop date work.

I'm also an infrequent coffee and tea drinker. That also doesn't help me in making the coffee shop date format work well for me.



This is more of an outdoor walk/park date than a coffee shop date. The coffee shop portion of it is insignificant.

I can think of one coffee shop in my city that is very close to a major urban walking path. Getting a coffee at that shop and then walking on the path is a reasonable date in my city. However, the parking near that coffee shop is difficult. I wouldn't suggest a woman meet me at that coffee shop if she doesn't already live within walking distance of that coffee shop.



An in-person approach should be a vibe check, not a scheduled coffee shop date.

The overreliance on tech methods for arranging dates is what keeps the topic of coffee shop dates a relevant discussion topic.



Alcoholic drinks in bars with no food are the best first dates.

I think we are missing each other. I will never endorse sitting in a coffee shop and staring at each other. Get a coffee, sure, but get off your ass and move around. If that hasn’t been my clear message the entire thread I apologize.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Alcoholic drinks in bars with no food are the best first dates.

@Solomon +
No ****? Getting her drunk on empty stomach is the most effective way out of all of these?

 

[SW15]

I will never endorse sitting in a coffee shop and staring at each other.

This is what most people think of when the expression "coffee date" or "coffee shop date" is used.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I have heard of Caleb Jones' (aka Alpha Male 2.0 and Blackdragon) fast sex plan. It usually consists of a short first date that doesn't involve kissing and much kino escalation and then a second date where there is sex. I think a coffee shop date was his typical first date. If so, his system might work for coffee shop dates.

I haven't read all the details on that one.

Caleb Jones has some good ideas but some of his other ideas are less good.

In the Manosphere, I think he was a bit discredited when PUA Nick Krauser wrote a hit piece on him in 2019....

BlackDragon is a pathetic delusional cuck

I promised myself that this year I would resist the temptation to play PUA Police. The world is so full of bull****ters and charlatans that exposing them is like a game of whack-a-mole. A wannabe s…

krauserpua.com

The strongest Uncanny Valley vibes I've ever gotten were from watching Caleb's videos. Why he makes them is a mystery for the ages. Dude has a good speaking voice, should've left it at that.

But getting back to my earlier posts in this thread, a 2-day system can work with coffee dates if you sex them up before hand and keep the vibe going (at least simmering) during the meet with frame, eye contact, kino, etc

 

[CoolWave1331]

Coffee dates are a controversial subject because they are a difficult date format. It's not easy to get first date sex from a coffee shop date.

Coffee shops are a neutral environment and not very sexually charged. It's difficult to construct a very sexual frame sitting inside of a coffee shop. Coffee shops contribute to a scenario where two people have a neutral time together in most cases. The woman (the gatekeeper to sex) will go on a coffee shop with a man and have a pleasant time but likely not feel "the spark", "the right vibes", or "all the feelz". Without the immediate sexual feelings, women won't even show up for a second date anymore. Most women have far too abundance anymore to try to let "the spark" develop. The sexual spark must be there immediately.

In the post sexual revolution, pre-internet and even very early internet era (1980s - early 2000s), few women had true abundance and might be willing to be patient enough with an interaction to see it through to a 2nd or 3rd date. Now, that doesn't happen.

I don't see the coffee shop date as a first date being useful in today's dating environment.



Everything is getting more expensive. $100 for a first date in a big USA city (particularly the Northeast and West Coast cities) isn't that far fetched of an idea anymore.

In the late 1990s/early 2000s, radio host Tom Leykis proposed capping spending on early stage, pre-sex dates at $40. Earlier in this thread, I used a Consumer Price Index calculator to show that $40 in April 1998 was equivalent to $78.96 in April 2025. The $40 Leykis 101 rule is now something like $70-$80 today.

I'm in one of the biggest USA cities (though not on the coasts). Things are expensive here.

I can keep my first date costs at bars under $70 and have a more sexually charged atmosphere on my 1st and 2nd dates. I can even keep them under $50.



The way that people date in developed Western countries has changed in the last 20-25 years.

People now arrange more dates with technology instead of through real life interactions. A lot of these dates probably would not and should not have happened without technology.

I think the solution is not trying to arrange more dates. The emphasis needs to be fewer, but higher quality dates. I don't think a coffee shop date is a high quality date because it does not create "the spark" I mentioned above.

Men tend to do a poor job screening candidates for dates. Men tend to be more concerned with quantity of dates rather than wanting quality dates. It's better to go on fewer dates but with the right people and in the right format of dates.

The typical man is swiping, DMing, and texting to arrange dates with strangers he hasn't effectively pre-screened.

Thanks, this post & Backingame's helped me understand the argument

If focused on getting sex as quick as possible, yes, i'd say there are more appropriate "environments" vs grabbing coffee. I guess I should say i'm not type of person that usually tries to get or expects sex right away (truthfully). For first dates I usually suggest something different than coffee.

I responded because there seemed to be notion that grabbing coffee is bad move and it's going to like hurt chances. This I cannot agree with- I think I mentioned one personal example but I have others (usually the girl suggested the idea). I only really have positive things to say about these experiences - they mostly all led to other dates and a lot of times could tell she was interested (she'd flirt). You're also not limited to just finishing your cup and saying goodbyes - if vibe is right you can always spend time afterwards. This happened to me a few times - went in just expecting to grab a cup of coffee & pastry but then vibed well & did other things after--- this is the advantage of being in a city.

 

[BadBoy89]

I've gone on dates where I don't spend a dime and we just walked and talked in a park.

If you‘ve taken an older divorced women for a walk in the park without spending a dime and she has fallen in love with you, props.

I don’t have the skill for older women. For younger women, I can.