"Classic" PUA & Suave Relevancy in a Digital World

[Reincarnated]

Long time lurker, first post. I've had stretches of good success with women, and have periodically been drawn to these communities, as well as the "old school methods of Style, Mystery, and similar guys from the time period. I've actually applied a lot of their methodology and thought process in my pursuits.

It seems like the golden era for this community in general was the early 2000s, the dawning of the widespread internet. And of course beyond sites like this you hear all of the stories of the masters of that era. I mean most of the wisdom from the bible came out of those times. That has made me wonder, with how different society is now in the smartphone age, what is still applicable, and where have the biggest shifts occurred (and how do we take advantage of them).

Obviously the general tenants that make men successful in these pursuits (decisiveness, shameless & controlled masculinity, confidence, and striving towards lofty physical ideal with discipline, among other) will always be foundational. Has the artform of the classic approach become archaic? In my experience it has just become more difficult when so many people are constantly staring at their phones.

I've been developing and sharpening my skills with Tinder game, etc.., and actually applied a lot of the tactics that would generally be used in the field, with varying levels of success. I think there are actually advantages to the online realm, because you have time to plot your decisions and lead the interactions in the direction that suits you best (and yes I know that one shouldn't lean on specifics, as much as letting things flow naturally).

One realization I've come to is that appearance is even more crucial in these settings because you don't even get a chance to show your personality until a decision has been made on you physically. This has been one of my motivations to become more muscular in the gym (I've been complimented on physique before, but want to get to a point where I leave no doubt), along with a relatively healthy diet. Career wise I'm doing well for being 24, I'm a CPA and currently working in corporate finance for a bank. The drawback is I'm living with my parents at the moment (I know, that's suicide when it comes to this, but I decided to do it to position myself better in the future, something I think will ultimately pay dividends).

Ultimately, I'm trying to get a grasp of what elements of these past teaching should still be applied, and which ones might be better to leave in the past. Also looking for thoughts on digital interactions, and some aspects of this that might not be obvious.

I think that this community is as valuable an institution as any on the internet, and am glad to be active in keeping the conversation alive.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Your personality can show somewhat through your pics. As far as digital strategy, learn how to game Tinder. Since you already have been using it, I'd consider doing a hard reset of your profile with a new device

the swipehelper subreddit can help with this. https://www.reddit.com/r/SwipeHelper/

 

[CollegeMan22]

I do not think classic game has become outdated. Perhaps the environment has become more difficult, but that does not change the method of best success. What has changed is that there are now new avenues of meeting women, like online dating as you mentioned.

Another change has been the rise of #MeToo. I think this has SLIGHTLY changed game, but unless you are approaching green-haired, lip-ringed vampires, I don’t think you usually have to worry about it. I think you have to be a little more careful in the club (don’t just go up and grind on random girls) but I can’t think of any time I’ve been reprimanded for making a move. The prime principle, as of always, is that SHE MUST BE ATTRACTED for you to touch her. And if she is attracted, she will generally get even more attracted. It’s well known that strong kino is hot when done by an Alpha and “creepy” when done by a loser.

Cell phones do make everything more annoying, especially in daygame locations like the coffee shop. You used to be able to refer to a book they were reading or what not as an opener, but not anymore. It’s harder to fish for eye contact. But that shouldn’t deter you. Just say “HEY, excuse me” in a decisive voice, and then give your opener. As long as it is strong, you will get their attention.

The same principle of game will always apply: game is fishing for the girls who ALREADY LIKE YOU. You can’t negotiate attraction, but you gotta find those girls who like you in the first place. Whatever method it may be, this is the core principle. Therefore you must have balls to approach lots of girls, whether in night, day, or online game. So I don’t think the principles of game have changed that much. The principles of my favorite books — Roosh’s trilogy of Bang, Day Bang, and Game — still work great for me today.

 

[mikedee]

Your personality can show somewhat through your pics. As far as digital strategy, learn how to game Tinder. Since you already have been using it, I'd consider doing a hard reset of your profile with a new device

the swipehelper subreddit can help with this. https://www.reddit.com/r/SwipeHelper/

It doesn't change anything, I did it a week ago, new device, new number, new email, new country. No real improvment.

 

[Reincarnated]

Some good points made here. That reddit page has some interesting viewpoints/attributes that might be worthwhile to implement, but also some really cringe worthy stuff. I think as collegeman22 said, and I kind of alluded to, the core principles don't change with time, so this should always be the focus.

 

[RazorRambo24]

To "chase" after or consciously find woman is a losing game.. You find more women who will be of value to you or an asset to your life, if you let them find you. How do they find you? You focus on the things you like doing, and thus as a byproduct of that, have something to show for.. Whether that be a social media presence, a nice physique, tattoos, money, nice cars, a nice hobby smoking cigars, basketball skills, your sense of fashion, your musical talents, your prowess in poker, etc.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't have dating apps. Simply means, you shoul dnot give too much effort to going after women.. instead set up a nice profile, swipe maybe 5-10 minutes a day letting the app know who you like who you don't, and the rest should work itself out.

The problem is, most men, tend to be of average caliber and expect to find women, and are astounded when women don't respond to them well.. They go out seeking women instead of putting themselves out there and the women coming to seek them.. because they don't have much that sets them apart from the herd of average guys.

Looks are more for superficial women.. Hot women will look for hot guys..or men of height or some other type of superficial value.. Thats just how it goes. Most women don't careabout looks , as long as the guy is just not ugly and atrocious looking. They care more about the guys value as a man, how he holds himself, what his personality is like, how many friends he has, what type of job he has,.. Its a mixture of things .. But in a setting where its just about that moment and sexual encounters, some of that doesn't even matter.. If he can talk a good game and back it up,and has some sense of style and charisma, he can get some action.

 

[Deep State]

Nothing has changed. Girls still like confidence and social status. Plenty of girls aren't on Tinder or don't take it seriously. Living with your parents at 24 is fine as long as you are saving tons of cash and involved in outside activities.

 

[DEEZEDBRAH]

Long time lurker, first post. I've had stretches of good success with women, and have periodically been drawn to these communities, as well as the "old school methods of Style, Mystery, and similar guys from the time period. I've actually applied a lot of their methodology and thought process in my pursuits.

It seems like the golden era for this community in general was the early 2000s, the dawning of the widespread internet. And of course beyond sites like this you hear all of the stories of the masters of that era. I mean most of the wisdom from the bible came out of those times. That has made me wonder, with how different society is now in the smartphone age, what is still applicable, and where have the biggest shifts occurred (and how do we take advantage of them).

Obviously the general tenants that make men successful in these pursuits (decisiveness, shameless & controlled masculinity, confidence, and striving towards lofty physical ideal with discipline, among other) will always be foundational. Has the artform of the classic approach become archaic? In my experience it has just become more difficult when so many people are constantly staring at their phones.

I've been developing and sharpening my skills with Tinder game, etc.., and actually applied a lot of the tactics that would generally be used in the field, with varying levels of success. I think there are actually advantages to the online realm, because you have time to plot your decisions and lead the interactions in the direction that suits you best (and yes I know that one shouldn't lean on specifics, as much as letting things flow naturally).

One realization I've come to is that appearance is even more crucial in these settings because you don't even get a chance to show your personality until a decision has been made on you physically. This has been one of my motivations to become more muscular in the gym (I've been complimented on physique before, but want to get to a point where I leave no doubt), along with a relatively healthy diet. Career wise I'm doing well for being 24, I'm a CPA and currently working in corporate finance for a bank. The drawback is I'm living with my parents at the moment (I know, that's suicide when it comes to this, but I decided to do it to position myself better in the future, something I think will ultimately pay dividends).

Ultimately, I'm trying to get a grasp of what elements of these past teaching should still be applied, and which ones might be better to leave in the past. Also looking for thoughts on digital interactions, and some aspects of this that might not be obvious.

I think that this community is as valuable an institution as any on the internet, and am glad to be active in keeping the conversation alive.

2000s was different. Receipts or infield was the norm. Now a days, you got boomers bashing marriage while secretly playing house. Preach game and don't approach and can't pull.

Men approached then. In aggregate, men don't today. If you do, they are a outlier. If I go out, I see Gen z guys busy trying to be pretty. It's ****ed.

I think your on the right path looking up old school content. What's old is new now. I see RP guys parroting or blatantly stealing old school pickup and playing it off as their own. Outside of Troy Francis or tusk, none of these other guys approach despite tooting game.

Stay living with your parents for now. My mate is 1st Gen. He stayed at home till 30. He bought a place cash outright. The difference was that, there culture permitted the following and it hurt him date wise. Girls now are trying to move in.

The other points I'd add is to side hustle and create freedom from your day job. You can start your own business and get separation from banking and the office. I'd get that going ASAP Now. Get a site going. Start this tax season.

After the **** ****, everyone needs to be on the grind and side hustle. Get separation from the corporate wage slave. Entrepreneurship is the play.

Approach a handful everyday. Use old school content but create your own style. Have your own swagger.

 

[startstrongtoday22]

I think you need to convey through the phone and text, that you have balls and aren't afraid to lose them, and are busy. However, I am genuinely very busy. The other day it went like this:

me: how's your schedule next week?
her: kind of busy, what did you have in mind?
me: okay if you are busy next week, we can do it the week after before I go on vacation then
her: well, I get a better sense of my schedule on Monday, and I can keep you posted then, is that okay? vacation eh, where you off to?
me: yea that's fine, and i am going down south for business and vacation

it ended at that. You can see when i said the next week after, she backpedaled....

now if she does not get back to me on Monday, and that's fine. I just go to the next girl. I do not need to keep following up with her until Monday because she said she will let me know.

You need to give them their space. You cannot force them out.

No contact is the best strategy ever.

 

[SW15]

I do not think classic game has become outdated. Perhaps the environment has become more difficult, but that does not change the method of best success.

Another change has been the rise of #MeToo. I think this has SLIGHTLY changed game, but unless you are approaching green-haired, lip-ringed vampires, I don’t think you usually have to worry about it. I think you have to be a little more careful in the club (don’t just go up and grind on random girls) but I can’t think of any time I’ve been reprimanded for making a move.

All true. I've never been reprimanded for making a move.

Cell phones do make everything more annoying, especially in daygame locations like the coffee shop. You used to be able to refer to a book they were reading or what not as an opener, but not anymore. It’s harder to fish for eye contact. But that shouldn’t deter you. Just say “HEY, excuse me” in a decisive voice, and then give your opener. As long as it is strong, you will get their attention.

Earbuds (usually accompanying cell phones) have been awful for game. Earbuds have made the general gym floor, parks, and paths more difficult. Back when I was in college (2001-2005), only the most attractive women wore iPods at the on-campus gym. In the early 2000s, personal music devices with headphones had been around since the Walkman of the 1980s, but they weren't nearly as convenient as the iPod or later the iPhone, which is why fewer people wore them.

By the early 2010s, almost everyone in the gyms I started to attend then was wearing them and that trend hasn't changed. My primary gym in the past decade has been a gym that mostly catered to a white collar crowd with women with bachelor's and advanced degrees.

I don’t think the principles of game have changed that much. The principles of my favorite books — Roosh’s trilogy of Bang, Day Bang, and Game — still work great for me today.

That "pet shop" opener could never work today with more internet on cell phones. Time has moved beyond that tactic. There are also "Mystery Method" type gambits that are outdated.

The "Is that good?" grocery store opener from "Day Bang" still works.

The general concepts from classic Roosh books would still work in most cases, but need to be updated. Roosh's "Game" was written in 2018 to update 2007's "Bang".