Chinese Hypergamy

[zekko]

Saw this Alexander Grace video the other day, thought it was very interesting. It talks about what's going on in China, which is similar to what is happening here. It notes that now that women can earn or out-earn men, their hypergamous nature still wants a man who makes even more than they do. And they want the guy to pay for everything, while they use their own money on clothes, fashion, vacations, or whatever they want. And of course that doesn't even include their physical expectations for the guy.

It talks about how they keep these expectations even as they reach the end of their fertility years. And the average guys just aren't having it. They know they can't compete with these women's delusional expectations, so they don't even try. Men get into dating events free, while women have to pay - but the guys still aren't showing up.

Grace says this isn't about feminism because they don't have that in China, but isn't feminism one of the main reasons women are working and earning so much? I guess it's a global phenomenon. He also says this is a bigger problem in the big cities, which makes sense to me. I live in a more rural area, and the local women seem to have more reasonable standards.

 

[BaronOfHair]

@zekko "And the average guys just aren't having it. They know they can't compete with these women's delusional expectations, so they don't even try"

Sounds like fellas in China are no less predisposed towards concocting justifications for their inaction than their brethren here in The West are. Who the hell wants to admit outright:

"Going out into the wild and pursuing my desires requires that I experience discomfort, therefore I choose to NOT do so"

 

[Bigpapa]

Saw this Alexander Grace video the other day, thought it was very interesting. It talks about what's going on in China, which is similar to what is happening here. It notes that now that women can earn or out-earn men, their hypergamous nature still wants a man who makes even more than they do. And they want the guy to pay for everything, while they use their own money on clothes, fashion, vacations, or whatever they want. And of course that doesn't even include their physical expectations for the guy.

It talks about how they keep these expectations even as they reach the end of their fertility years. And the average guys just aren't having it. They know they can't compete with these women's delusional expectations, so they don't even try. Men get into dating events free, while women have to pay - but the guys still aren't showing up.

Grace says this isn't about feminism because they don't have that in China, but isn't feminism one of the main reasons women are working and earning so much? I guess it's a global phenomenon. He also says this is a bigger problem in the big cities, which makes sense to me. I live in a more rural area, and the local women seem to have more reasonable standards.

to be fair, I never really understood where Hypergamy happens, especially in ltrs

what I see is women and men more or less at the same level of attractiveness and social/economical level in ltrs

in china I think is just an issue of men just being more than women, because till recently they were allowed only 1 child and everyone wanted a boy

 

[BillyPilgrim]

@zekko "And the average guys just aren't having it. They know they can't compete with these women's delusional expectations, so they don't even try"

Sounds like fellas in China are no less predisposed towards concocting justifications for their inaction than their brethren here in The West are. Who the hell wants to admit outright:

"Going out into the wild and pursuing my desires requires that I experience discomfort, therefore I choose to NOT do so"

The irony of not realizing this promotes the female imperative is richer than Genghis Khan or King Solomon ever was.

Of all the pieces of male advice dispensed over the millennium, this has to be one of the most intellectually challenged and self-defeating

Let's work ourselves to death for mediocre Chinese tang, said no one ever until now.

If @BaronOfHair was a character in Full Metal Jacket when the GI's are picking up the "me so horny" girls, he would likely butt in and remind them that "a true man doesn't take shortcuts and instead redeems himself through 100 hour factory workweeks" as they laugh in his face and push him out of the way.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Let's work ourselves to death for mediocre Chinese tang, said no one ever until now.

And Sydney Sweeney could've blindly bought into a culture that was still smarting from MeToo's party line:

"Don't take your clothes off on camera and say "Yes" to simu sex, even though beautiful actresses have been doing this very thing since times immemorial, in order to build lucrative careers. That just panders to The Male Gaze and strengthens to The Patriarchy"

She instead did what was required to get further up the proverbial ladder, and is now worth millions, while her detractors remain flat broke op-ed writers for BuzzFeed

 

[BadBoy89]

It talks about how they keep these expectations even as they reach the end of their fertility years. And the average guys just aren't having it.

The whole argument falls apart here.

”Average guys aren’t having It”. Thats 100% entitlement, If you want to have it, then don’t be average.

Men get into dating events free, while women have to pay - but the guys still aren’t showing up.

This is not a Chinese thing.

It’s in a man’s DNA not to go to speed dating, unless it was all hot 22 year girls or something. Even then, the concept of speed dating where the woman picks the guy does not sit well with the man. He goes on 15 3 min interviews only to get rejected by all at end of night.

Thats why men like online dating, they do the picking.

 

[BaronOfHair]

”Average guys aren’t having It”

Yeah, that may be The Manosphere's closest equivalent to Intersectionality's arguments for nonsense like so-called Body Positivity:

"It's not fair that only 10s have men drooling over them"

Even though, as has been mentioned in a different thread https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/90-men-are-invisible.286438/page-3#post-3195262 10s rarely, if ever, occur naturally. Gals who are labelled as such also had to put in effort, up to and including enduring a fair amount of plastic surgery + The pain that accompanies such activity

MOST men who are bona fide p-ssy magnets similar started out pretty "average", and still have flaws of some sort they have to work around

 

[zekko]

The whole argument falls apart here.
”Average guys aren’t having It”. Thats 100% entitlement, If you want to have it, then don’t be average.

The point was that the women's expectations are not realistic. They want the six foot guy with the high salary, the big house, and the car. I think they said only 1% of the population met the standards. And even if they met the standards, the women wanted the guy to play provider, pay for all the dates, and give them all the traditional benefits men provide, without providing the benefits of a traditional wife. If that's the deal, I don't blame the guy at all for not playing.

This is not a Chinese thing.

It’s in a man’s DNA not to go to speed dating, unless it was all hot 22 year girls or something. Even then, the concept of speed dating where the woman picks the guy does not sit well with the man. He goes on 15 3 min interviews only to get rejected by all at end of night.

It reminded me of the ladies nights they used to have here in the US, where they'd give free drinks to the women and let them free, while charging a cover charge to the men. It's basically the same thing.

Anyway, why are you fine with guys dodging the speed dating when they just get 15 rejections? Shouldn't you be telling them "If you want to have it, don't be average"?

 

[BadBoy89]

The point was that the women's expectations are not realistic. They want the six foot guy with the high salary, the big house, and the car. I think they said only 1% of the population met the standards. And even if they met the standards, the women wanted the guy to play provider, pay for all the dates, and give them all the traditional benefits men provide, without providing the benefits of a traditional wife. If that's the deal, I don't blame the guy at all for not playing.

I agree their expectations not realistic, but the "average guys have had it" means someone owes the average guy a traditional wife. If it said "all guys have had it" it would make more sense. "Average guys have had it" means "above average guys are OK with it". So if the average guy is above average, he would be ok with it too.

To be honest, I sometimes feel same way. I opened up a decent looking 38 year old woman at a coffee shop, got her number and card. I was happy at the time but then when I thought about it, I thought "this woman just wants a free dinner, I won't text her" 3 days later she texted me. I responded but I didn't invite her to do anything because I thought she just wants money. I may have been wrong but I'd have so much experience I was like "forget it, not worth it".

It reminded me of the ladies nights they used to have here in the US, where they'd give free drinks to the women and let them free, while charging a cover charge to the men. It's basically the same thing.

Anyway, why are you fine with guys dodging the speed dating when they just get 15 rejections? Shouldn't you be telling them "If you want to have it, don't be average"?

Again you are confusing the issues.

Being above or below average has nothing to do with speed dating. A man could be top 10%, have all the attractive qualities hot women at speed dating want, he still wouldn't go. It's the situation of the event causing the man not to go, not the quality of the man.

I think all men and women want to meet each other though school, friends, and family, or dare I say.....church. Anytime of contrived environment like online or speed dating, alot of them have met there and have been successful, but deep down they don't like it that they met there.

 

[zekko]

I agree their expectations not realistic, but the "average guys have had it" means someone owes the average guy a traditional wife. If it said "all guys have had it" it would make more sense. "Average guys have had it" means "above average guys are OK with it". So if the average guy is above average, he would be ok with it too.

Well, I was the one who wrote "Average guys just aren't having it", so perhaps that was just my sloppy writing that is at fault. I agree that if you're average or below, improve yourself. But that doesn't negate the point of the video, which is that the women's expectations are wildly unrealistic. They want a top 1% guy, and I'm not going to tell a guy that he's worthless because he hasn't put himself into the 1% category. That is a very elite group, and I doubt that most guys could get there no matter how much effort they put into it.

I think all men and women want to meet each other though school, friends, and family, or dare I say.....church. Anytime of contrived environment like online or speed dating, alot of them have met there and have been successful, but deep down they don't like it that they met there.

I could see that there is some stigma there, like "You met at a speed dating event? What a loser." I used to feel that way about OLD honestly - still do, really, since I've never used it. It's like "You couldn't get a woman naturally through your normal life? What's wrong with you?". Of course now days most people meet online, which seems crazy to me.

Another common way people used to meet was at work, but the #MeToo movement kind of killed that off. That was around the same time that OLD became so popular. Is that just coincidence? I get this paranoid impression of some owners of dating sites going around telling women to file sexual harassment suits on their coworkers.

 

[The Duke]

Women are consumers, men are providers. Their desire for men to provide is about as likely to change as ours wanting hot & young women. The problem with the guy in the video is he takes this chic seriously. His isn't wrong at all, but he doesn't realize he is screening a woman for all the wrong things. By default she is female, and her fiancial skills are going to suck. Its like complaining about a turtle that doesn't run fast. THis guy will wind up with a masculine woman that he won't like either the way he is going about it.

I have yet to meet a woman that has the financial discipline and aptitude to make smart decisions with her money. They are too emotional and lack vision.

As a man, I make the money and I control how it gets spent and invested. I don't need her talents for that, she just needs to play along.

 

[zekko]

I have yet to meet a woman that has the financial discipline and aptitude to make smart decisions with her money. They are too emotional and lack vision.

I've known several. One woman, who I used to work with, I took a great deal of inspiration from. We used to have great conversations bouncing ideas off of each other about how to handle our money. She invested huge amounts of money.

I have two friends who are very impulsive, and can't be trusted with money. Their wives handle the money, pay the bills, etc. because they are capable, and their men are not. I'm guessing @BeExcellent here on the forum knows how to handle her money.

 

[BaronOfHair]

@zekko "The point was that the women's expectations are not realistic"

Them, and everyone else's, and this particular cognitive misfire isn't even confined to dating and mating. Ex.

We're constantly dismayed to discover that whoever we voted unto The Oval Office is just another schmoe like the rest of us, NOT The Mahdi we'd imagined them to be

 

[Dash Riprock]

The point was that the women's expectations are not realistic. They want the six foot guy with the high salary, the big house, and the car. I think they said only 1% of the population met the standards. And even if they met the standards, the women wanted the guy to play provider, pay for all the dates, and give them all the traditional benefits men provide, without providing the benefits of a traditional wife. If that's the deal, I don't blame the guy at all for not playing.

This. 110%. You can't logic your way in when you're dealing with a delusional female mindset.

 

[BeExcellent]

Yeah I'd say I meet the definition of financially disciplined. After my first husband got swindled in the nightclub, he took a buy out. We bought our first home with that (I picked a small house in an area that is historic & sought after -therefore values will be solid to increase), then I used my salary to completely redo/update said house, and used my income to buy a larger home as our family grew, and I managed the first house as the first rental.

Then I took every dollar and saved and bought more houses. Bought them in another state where I had routine business and cost to acquire was much cheaper. Over time I kept doing this (and I also managed the money on the homefront as the sole income earner.) We did not go on vacations. We never bought a new car, never bought expensive toys like boats or RTVs. I put my kids in private school and/or paid to live in the district with the best public school and I bought organic food. That was an investment in the health & education of my children.

My son learned financial literacy from observing me, hearing me discuss business, risk and opportunity, and my son runs his family as @The Duke noted. He controls the income, the finances and the major decisions. My son was also exposed to wealthy families through his private school experience, and observed the same habits he watched me embody.

I hate paying full price for cars or fashion. Most of my clothes are bought from consignment, and are fashionable, but timeless. I have many items that have lasted 30+ years, and still get compliments.

My girls (17 and 21) both have jobs although they are in college and high school, respectively. They both have 5 figure savings accounts of money they earned, they both buy most of their clothing at Goodwill and enjoy thrifting. They make good grades, have good friends and stay out of trouble.

My 3 children are financially disciplined and responsible. So am I, so are all of my sisters. So yes, there are financially disciplined & responsible women out there.

I will say it IS best to have a man who out earns you. Not as a provider thing, but as a respect thing. My man makes 6 figures, and is the tall & handsome desirable type. I out earn him & run my business affairs independently of him. He can take care of himself without my help, and our finances are entirely seperate. I earn more, so I pay for stuff more. No big deal.

Financial discipline & literacy does not happen by accident. For years I busted my rear & bought assets forgoing fancy cars & vacations. Now those assets help buy my lifestyle (including fancy cars and vacations) and I can do things for fun or frivolity. I've still never bought a new car, never built a new house, still buy consignment clothes.

It is delayed gratification and frugality & creativity. That requires discipline & outside the box thinking that most people lack.