Can you bulk as a vegetarian?

[Throttle]

Does it have hormones and testosterone, or does it promote it?

the latter. the former is irrelevant -- alas, beef hormones don't make humans grow.

 

[wayword]

Roy says he has "never" eaten, turkey, fish, chicken or red meat. "I truly believe," says Roy, "that fruit is the body's cleanser, vegetables are the bodies healer, and meat is the bodies premature aging agent."

Roy Hilligenn - 1951 Mr. America
Roy at 77

 

[spesmilitis]

the latter. the former is irrelevant -- alas, beef hormones don't make humans grow.

What in beef promotes it? Are these things not found in fish/poultry?

 

[Warboss Alex]

What in beef promotes it? Are these things not found in fish/poultry?

fish and poultry are rubbish for gaining weight for the simple reason those foods aren't naturally anabolic: they don't contain protein, fat, b-vitamins, iron, zinc, selenium, cholesterol all that good stuff which eggs and red meat have in large amounts. chemically, a protein is not a protein either.. beef has a different chemical makeup to chicken which makes it superior to poultry. but generally it's the micronutrients and their effect on boosting your test levels which is key (as well as the high quality proteins) - have a large (16oz or more) steak and tell me if you're not aggressive or horny afterwards.

to gain weight, your protein sources should be eggs and red meat. yes, every meal. I remember the days when I'd have steak, ground beef and raw egg shakes and tuna/chicken only with my high carb meals (I typically did low carb gaining phases in the oldschool way) - I've never experienced easier gains than then.

 

[spesmilitis]

fish and poultry are rubbish for gaining weight for the simple reason those foods aren't naturally anabolic: they don't contain protein, fat, b-vitamins, iron, zinc, selenium, cholesterol all that good stuff which eggs and red meat have in large amounts. chemically, a protein is not a protein either.. beef has a different chemical makeup to chicken which makes it superior to poultry. but generally it's the micronutrients and their effect on boosting your test levels which is key (as well as the high quality proteins) - have a large (16oz or more) steak and tell me if you're not aggressive or horny afterwards.

to gain weight, your protein sources should be eggs and red meat. yes, every meal. I remember the days when I'd have steak, ground beef and raw egg shakes and tuna/chicken only with my high carb meals (I typically did low carb gaining phases in the oldschool way) - I've never experienced easier gains than then.

So I guess I shouldn't throw out the yolks. Dam, I hate yolks.

So beef has better protein? Is it in terms of biological value?

The micro nutrients in beef you are talking about . . . .are those "b-vitamins, iron, zinc, selenium"

 

[woods]

Noone's mentioned avacado's. For a vegetable (fruit, actually), it has very high fats and protien. Eat lots of them if you go veggie.

 

[Throttle]

So beef has better protein? Is it in terms of biological value?

no, in terms of having an appropriate amino profile for building muscle. eggs & whey have a higher b.v.

The micro nutrients in beef you are talking about . . . .are those "b-vitamins, iron, zinc, selenium"

yes but...... let's be really careful about nutritional hubris, and acknowledge for once that we don't always know how this stuff really works, and neither does anyone else. it's entirely possible that it is a synergy between many components in beef, some well understood and some not (perhaps not even yet identified), that stimulates anabolism.

maybe somebody can explain it in terms of x, y & z, but i would think our recent discoveries about omega-3 fats (to take only one example) would make us careful about such pronouncements.

 

[cablecow15]

fish and poultry are rubbish for gaining weight for the simple reason those foods aren't naturally anabolic: they don't contain protein, fat, b-vitamins, iron, zinc, selenium, cholesterol all that good stuff which eggs and red meat have in large amounts. chemically, a protein is not a protein either.. beef has a different chemical makeup to chicken which makes it superior to poultry. but generally it's the micronutrients and their effect on boosting your test levels which is key (as well as the high quality proteins) - have a large (16oz or more) steak and tell me if you're not aggressive or horny afterwards.

to gain weight, your protein sources should be eggs and red meat. yes, every meal. I remember the days when I'd have steak, ground beef and raw egg shakes and tuna/chicken only with my high carb meals (I typically did low carb gaining phases in the oldschool way) - I've never experienced easier gains than then.

lol fish and chicken have more protien than beef the only meat lower than beef in protien is ham and i think if ur steak is turning u on then u have a problem

 

[Warboss Alex]

lol fish and chicken have more protien than beef the only meat lower than beef in protien is ham and i think if ur steak is turning u on then u have a problem

please attempt a chicken/fish diet to put on significant weight and tell us the results. then do a red meat/eggs diet and tell us what the difference was.

 

[stronglifts]

That might give better gains faster, but the trade-off is the high cholesterol in eggs.

I detect a myth.

I've been on diets involving 40 eggs a week. No cholesterol problems.

What matters is what you consume the rest of the week/day.

 

[simon]

That might give better gains faster, but the trade-off is the high cholesterol in eggs.

Dietary cholesterol does not affect blood cholesterol to any significant degree.

 

[kickureface]

would supplementing zinc pills raise chicken/fish up to par with beef in terms of anabolic effectiveness? these pills are 50mg, which ib elieve are 300% dv

 

[Warboss Alex]

would supplementing zinc pills raise chicken/fish up to par with beef in terms of anabolic effectiveness? these pills are 50mg, which ib elieve are 300% dv

no. and why not just buy beef?

what is this phobia everyone has of red meat?

 

[shaunuk]

I dunno what beef people have with beef (pun intended ), but as long as it's relatively lean, it's awesome. It tastes way better than chicken, I'd chose minced beef over chicken any day.

You won't have a heart attack if you eat beef and eggs in big quantities, it's healthier than a lot of crap people eat (assuming you prepare your eggs and meat sensibly).

-shaun

 

[spesmilitis]

I detect a myth.

I've been on diets involving 40 eggs a week. No cholesterol problems.

What matters is what you consume the rest of the week/day.

Holy Snap! How are you HDL and LDL levels?

The phobia behind red meat, saturated fats. Arteries get clogged with cholesterol, right? Apparently there are studies that say saturated fats increase cholesterol.

I am a bit confused on this as well. At first I thought that being physically in active was the cause. Then I learned that Arthur Ashe (tennis player) had heart problems. Maybe he had too much transfats?

 

[stronglifts]

Holy Snap! How are you HDL and LDL levels?

The phobia behind red meat, saturated fats. Arteries get clogged with cholesterol, right? Apparently there are studies that say saturated fats increase cholesterol.

I am a bit confused on this as well. At first I thought that being physically in active was the cause. Then I learned that Arthur Ashe (tennis player) had heart problems. Maybe he had too much transfats?

1) Studies are performed on average people.
2) If you eat clean & exercise. You're not the average people.

Different games, different rules. A friend told me his doctor called him "overweight". He weighs +85kg for 1m72. He has 10% fat the rest is muscles (bone/skin). He eats healthy & exercise. Of course he's not overweight.

Exercise helps decreasing fat in your body. But if you eat junk food all day, you'll be unhealthy, even if you train 5 days a week. It won't make a difference (unless you're on steroids).

 

[Throttle]

Holy Snap! How are you HDL and LDL levels?

The phobia behind red meat, saturated fats. Arteries get clogged with cholesterol, right? Apparently there are studies that say saturated fats increase cholesterol.

dietary cholesterol is not linked to arterial plaque. the evidence linking sat fats to HDL & LDL levels generally fails to distinguish between artificial trans fats (which are clearly a problem) and sat fats. meanwhile, attempts to manipulate LDL & HDL levels with diet & drugs have failed to reduce mortality. my own experience suggests that LDL & HDL levels track primarily with abdominal bodyfat rather than dietary fat intake.

read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheroma

ironically, the plaques also include white blood cells & calcium, but you don't see anyone recommending that you reduce calcium intake or attempt to lower your white blood cell count in order to prevent heart attacks. but the real punch line: nobody has a ****ing clue how this stuff really works, b/c the relevant arteries are buried deep in the body making it expensive to track. so we rely on longitudinal studies that can't really give us the answers we want in terms of behavioral modification.

the real answer? get rid of excess bodyfat. but that's hard work. much easier to blame a whole class of foods.

 

[spesmilitis]

dietary cholesterol is not linked to arterial plaque. the evidence linking sat fats to HDL & LDL levels generally fails to distinguish between artificial trans fats (which are clearly a problem) and sat fats. meanwhile, attempts to manipulate LDL & HDL levels with diet & drugs have failed to reduce mortality. my own experience suggests that LDL & HDL levels track primarily with abdominal bodyfat rather than dietary fat intake.

read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheroma

ironically, the plaques also include white blood cells & calcium, but you don't see anyone recommending that you reduce calcium intake or attempt to lower your white blood cell count in order to prevent heart attacks. but the real punch line: nobody has a ****ing clue how this stuff really works, b/c the relevant arteries are buried deep in the body making it expensive to track. so we rely on longitudinal studies that can't really give us the answers we want in terms of behavioral modification.

the real answer? get rid of excess bodyfat. but that's hard work. much easier to blame a whole class of foods.

There was a time when I had high cholesterol levels, or high ldl levels in high school. I was really underweight. But I was not doing cardio and for lunch I would eat dominos cheesy bread for lunch everyday (bread with a buttload of cheese on top).

 

[stronglifts]

There was a time when I had high cholesterol levels, or high ldl levels in high school. I was really underweight. But I was not doing cardio and for lunch I would eat dominos cheesy bread for lunch everyday (bread with a buttload of cheese on top).

Just another proof that it really comes down to the quality of your nutritional intake.

Bad nutrition choice == bad health.

You can eat 20 eggs a day without problem. Eat 20 eggs a day coupled with lunch & dinner at mc donalds: you'll have health problems.

The context counts.

 

[Bible_Belt]

There's nothing healthy about being a vegetarian (although it does depend on your level of strictness). Humans evolved to eat meat; they did not evolve to eat rice, pasta, bread etc which vegetarian diets are full of.

... In general, veggie diets are neither healthy nor optimal for weight gain.

Does "healthy" to you only mean looking like a professional body builder? Saying that there is nothing healthy about vegetarianism puts you in contradiction with virtually all of medical science. Maybe you know a lot about lifting weights, but you are obviously not any expert on diet and health.