Can you bulk as a vegetarian?

[Warboss Alex]

Does "healthy" to you only mean looking like a professional body builder? Saying that there is nothing healthy about vegetarianism puts you in contradiction with virtually all of medical science. Maybe you know a lot about lifting weights, but you are obviously not any expert on diet and health.

I have often said that bodybuilders are far from healthy. Please tell me where I've said that these people are healthy, because I honestly didn't expect such a flame from you.

The lack of complete animal proteins which we have evolved to eat from the diet is unhealthy in my opinion. Of course it depends on the degree of vegetarianism (people who eat eggs, dairy products have it better - vegans do not).

It is animal products (the fats as well) that regulate many of the hormonal processes in the body including testosterone release and immune functions. The vegetarians I know tend to get sick really easily (as well as having bad skin) - of course this might just be my experience. But I can only speak from experience as I believe nothing printed in any medical or scientific journal unless I've seen it with my own eyes.

But I honestly didn't expect a flame like that from an otherwise mature and insightful poster.

 

[stronglifts]

Does "healthy" to you only mean looking like a professional body builder? Saying that there is nothing healthy about vegetarianism puts you in contradiction with virtually all of medical science. Maybe you know a lot about lifting weights, but you are obviously not any expert on diet and health.

You need strength for daily activities. You need muscles for strength. You need protein for muscles. Red meat > Soy for protein.

Eating lots of fruit & veggies is healthy. Not eating meat makes you weak.

 

[Throttle]

Does "healthy" to you only mean looking like a professional body builder? Saying that there is nothing healthy about vegetarianism puts you in contradiction with virtually all of medical science. Maybe you know a lot about lifting weights, but you are obviously not any expert on diet and health.

run, do not walk, to your nearest public library or bookstore, and pick up a copy of nina planck's "real food"

 

[Throttle]

Not eating meat makes you weak.

And may well compromise your immune system, among other deleterious effects.

 

[Warboss Alex]

I knew a vegetarian once. Never ate meat, fish, eggs.. only ate organic vegetables, fruit and carbs (potatoes, pasta etc). He was emaciated, was constantly getting colds, and his skin looked awful. He thought he was being 'healthy'. His bodyfat percentage was super low I will admit but he had like 11" arms. He was also on a stack of vitamin supplements (just about everything in the book) at 19 years of age. To me, that's far from healthy.

Not to say that all vegetarians are like him. I've seen overweight or even obese vegetarians as well. But I'd never recommend anyone to be a vegetarian for the improvement of their health because as far as I can see, it doesn't do anything for your health. Your experiences may be different.

 

[stronglifts]

Exactly Throttle & Warboss Alex.


The whole idea of vegetarism comes from people who put the life of animals above life of human beings.

 

[Bible_Belt]

The whole idea of vegetarism comes from people who put the life of animals above life of human beings.

Not every vegetarian belongs to PETA. Not all of us are sickly, either. I have not eaten meat in almost ten years. I don't keep health insurance and never go to the doctor, and I'm also not overweight like most Americans. Although I looked older when I was young, I now look younger than my thirty-something counterparts. I just finished grad school with kids who are on average 6-8 years younger than me, and most of them are surprised to hear that I am older than them. People who are my age look old to me.

Antioxidants and fiber promote good health, and they're almost all in fruits and vegetables. Look at the foods at whfoods.com and they're almost all vegetarian. The site is not a vegetarian propaganda site, they include healthy meats, but the meats are not the kind that Americans typically eat. It's not that all meat is unhealthy; but the type of meat that people typically eat is usually very unhealthy. It's also possible to have an unhealthy vegetarian diet, but that does not change the fact that most healthy food is non-meat.

Every other day in the news, there is a new piece of research about a particular food's health benefits, and that news story is never about a meat product. You'll never see "Scientists discover hidden benefits of beef." It's almost always a fruit or vegetable, or whole-grain.

If the goal of a diet is to mimick ancient eating habits, like the Paleo diet, you should eat plenty of bugs, because early man got much of his protein from insects. The idea of early man as some mighty hunter who only ate meat is ridiculous. Early man ate whatever he could get and adapted to that diet.

Most people would not slaughter their own meat themselves, and that makes them hypocrites in my opinion. But being a vegetarian involves minding your own business about what other people eat, at least until they try to criticize a diet that is much healthier than their own.

 

[simon]

The whole idea of vegetarism comes from people who put the life of animals above life of human beings.

Not every vegetarian belongs to PETA. Not all of us are sickly, either. I have not eaten meat in almost ten years. I don't keep health insurance and never go to the doctor, and I'm also not overweight like most Americans. Although I looked older when I was young, I now look younger than my thirty-something counterparts. I just finished grad school with kids who are on average 6-8 years younger than me, and most of them are surprised to hear that I am older than them. People who are my age look old to me.

Antioxidants and fiber promote good health, and they're almost all in fruits and vegetables. Look at the foods at whfoods.com and they're almost all vegetarian. The site is not a vegetarian propaganda site, they include healthy meats, but the meats are not the kind that Americans typically eat. It's not that all meat is unhealthy; but the type of meat that people typically eat is usually very unhealthy. It's also possible to have an unhealthy vegetarian diet, but that does not change the fact that most healthy food is non-meat.

Every other day in the news, there is a new piece of research about a particular food's health benefits, and that news story is never about a meat product. You'll never see "Scientists discover hidden benefits of beef." It's almost always a fruit or vegetable, or whole-grain.

If the goal of a diet is to mimick ancient eating habits, like the Paleo diet, you should eat plenty of bugs, because early man got much of his protein from insects. The idea of early man as some mighty hunter who only ate meat is ridiculous. Early man ate whatever he could get and adapted to that diet.

Most people would not slaughter their own meat themselves, and that makes them hypocrites in my opinion. But being a vegetarian involves minding your own business about what other people eat, at least until they try to criticize a diet that is much healthier than their own.

Define a 'healthy meat'.

 

[stronglifts]

The whole idea of vegetarism comes from people who put the life of animals above life of human beings.

Not every vegetarian belongs to PETA. Not all of us are sickly, either. I have not eaten meat in almost ten years. I don't keep health insurance and never go to the doctor, and I'm also not overweight like most Americans. Although I looked older when I was young, I now look younger than my thirty-something counterparts. I just finished grad school with kids who are on average 6-8 years younger than me, and most of them are surprised to hear that I am older than them. People who are my age look old to me.

Antioxidants and fiber promote good health, and they're almost all in fruits and vegetables. Look at the foods at whfoods.com and they're almost all vegetarian. The site is not a vegetarian propaganda site, they include healthy meats, but the meats are not the kind that Americans typically eat. It's not that all meat is unhealthy; but the type of meat that people typically eat is usually very unhealthy. It's also possible to have an unhealthy vegetarian diet, but that does not change the fact that most healthy food is non-meat.

Every other day in the news, there is a new piece of research about a particular food's health benefits, and that news story is never about a meat product. You'll never see "Scientists discover hidden benefits of beef." It's almost always a fruit or vegetable, or whole-grain.

If the goal of a diet is to mimick ancient eating habits, like the Paleo diet, you should eat plenty of bugs, because early man got much of his protein from insects. The idea of early man as some mighty hunter who only ate meat is ridiculous. Early man ate whatever he could get and adapted to that diet.

Most people would not slaughter their own meat themselves, and that makes them hypocrites in my opinion. But being a vegetarian involves minding your own business about what other people eat, at least until they try to criticize a diet that is much healthier than their own.

Ok you're biased. So are we. What's the point of discussing? I won't change your mind, you won't change mine.

Some things to consider
1) Obesitas is caused by caloric excess, not choice of calories.
2) I agree that you need fruit & veggies. I eat 7 times a day, always fruit and/or veggies included.
3) Check the benefits of testosterone. Check your testerone levels. Compare them to the testosterone levels of someone who eat animal fat & red meat.
4) Whole grain is a cause for food allergies. I don't know of any red meat that causes food allergy.
5) Maybe the idea of early man eating only meat is ridiculous, but it's real non the less. Check when agriculture started. Check also the first tools made by men. Men are hunters.
6) We raised animals, I've seen plenty of them slaughtered by my parents to be eaten by me & the rest of my family later on. I'd slaughtered a cow myself, why not.

Call me a caveman if you want.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I've raised animals, too. My family has cattle. If I was hungry and had no other choice, I'd kill one and eat it, most of us would, but I can't see killing one just because I like to eat it instead of other food. If you can slaughter your own food, I respect that very much. Most Americans do not have the stomach for it. Don Tyson has to import Mexicans to work at his hellhole slaughterhouses.

Healthy meats:
http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

Poultry & Lean Meats
Beef, lean organic
Calf's liver
Chicken
Lamb
Turkey
Venison

 

[Throttle]

The whole idea of vegetarism comes from people who put the life of animals above life of human beings.

not to mention above vegetables.

 

[Throttle]

Antioxidants and fiber promote good health, and they're almost all in fruits and vegetables.

none of us is arguing that whole vegetables & fruits are not healthy. they are the foundation of any good diet, the best dietary advice anyone can give, and the advice that most of us don't want to take -- or at least struggle to implement. which is ironic, b/c it's really not that hard.

It's not that all meat is unhealthy; but the type of meat that people typically eat is usually very unhealthy. It's also possible to have an unhealthy vegetarian diet, but that does not change the fact that most healthy food is non-meat.

start naming unhealthy meats. you'll reach quickly for those (you believe to be) loaded with saturated fats, i'm guessing. ignore the lipid hypothesis hype, get the facts. the cut-the-fat-off meats mantra isn't making anyone healthier. if i could find/afford grass-fed meats & dairy i'd be all over them. in the meanwhile, i'm more concerned with balancing my omega-3s & 6s, eliminating artificial trans fats, and not letting any oils go rancid or get overheated.

You'll never see "Scientists discover hidden benefits of beef."

you would, but it makes terrible copy. who would buy that story anymore (or yet)? we've nearly all been brainwashed, no one more than docs, nurses, dieticians & other very well-meaning folks whose dietary advice is prematurely killing us.

If the goal of a diet is to mimick ancient eating habits, like the Paleo diet, you should eat plenty of bugs, because early man got much of his protein from insects. The idea of early man as some mighty hunter who only ate meat is ridiculous. Early man ate whatever he could get and adapted to that diet.

Let's play knock down the straw man. It's fun, kids!

The foundation of any diet should be whole vegetables & fruits, supplemented with, as available: grains, pasture-fed meats & dairy, fish (best source of omega-3s), bone marrow (as broth/stock if you prefer) and any other food that was available to pre-industrial humans. If insects float your boat, go for it. We called it "bug juice" in Boy Scouts for a reason.

The truth is we have zero idea what "early man" ate--there are as many hypotheses as there are paleo-anthropologists. What we do know is that pre-industrial societies once varied widely in their eating habits, from nearly all-meat to nearly no-meat, and what they all have in common is that industrial foods (white flour, sugar, grain-fed meats & dairy) have pushed all of them in the same direction as the rest of us: obesity, heart disease, and type 2 diabetes.

Most people would not slaughter their own meat themselves, and that makes them hypocrites in my opinion.

careful there of the mote in your own eye. come to think of it, sounds like gruesome fun -- i certainly enjoy chopping up whole, uncooked chicken. it's a visceral thrill I guess.

But being a vegetarian involves minding your own business about what other people eat, at least until they try to criticize a diet that is much healthier than their own.

if only either of these assumptions were really true.

 

[mrRuckus]

Most people would not slaughter their own meat themselves, and that makes them hypocrites in my opinion. .

Why?

Ethics?

I wouldn't slaughter my meat unless i had to. Because that sounds boring. And is work. Ethics.. pfft.

Fvck animals. They are here for me to eat. Yum

 

[Throttle]

If I was hungry and had no other choice, I'd kill one and eat it, most of us would, but I can't see killing one just because I like to eat it instead of other food.

not because you like to eat it, but because you are omnivore: you are built to eat and make the most of it.

let's see where people can go wrong with your list (i'm sure you 'know better' B_B but this is for the benefit of every poster & lurker)

Poultry & Lean Meats

define lean. what percentage? why lean? what are you afraid of in non-lean meats?

some of the worst meats are lunch meats aka coldcuts -- full of sodium & nitrites, and taken from nearly tasteless, pressed scraps. i think many hear "lean poultry" and reach for the pre-packaged "chicken breast" [sic] and "turkey breast" [sic] slices.

Beef, lean organic

i'd rather go with grass-fed than lean or organic. i do not fear fats, and i don't fear hormones nearly as much as imbalanced fats. meanwhile, industrial-organic cattle are on the balance no more ecologically sound to raise than their straight up organic cousins.

Calf's liver

why a calf? the vegetarian wants to kill baby cows to eat their filter organs? priceless!

Chicken
Turkey

already covered.

Lamb
Venison

now we're talking some serious paleo potential. need to seek these out, though i find the flavor of lamb still a bit strong for my palate honed on blandness, white bread, corn syrup & aspartame.

why not pork? the only knock on any pig product is that bacon & sausage tend to come with a heavy dose of nitrites unless you shop specifically to avoid that. otherwise, it has a great balance of fats. i don't eat much of it b/c i don't like the bland flavors & texture-less chops that most American hogs feature these days.

 

[wolf116]

I read somewhere that our teeth and jaw developed the way that they did because of all the meat the caveman ate.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Ok you're biased. So are we. What's the point of discussing? I won't change your mind, you won't change mine.

exactly. let's go eat a steak (the evil, fatty kind of course - ribeye for preference).

the page linked to included milk as a healthy food.. there's no point continuing the discussion. (it also listed peanuts under nuts when it's actually a legume.. tut tut. usual USDA rubbish then)

 

[stronglifts]

exactly. let's go eat a steak (the evil, fatty kind of course - ribeye for preference).

the page linked to included milk as a healthy food.. there's no point continuing the discussion. (it also listed peanuts under nuts when it's actually a legume.. tut tut. usual USDA rubbish then)

Hehe Ribeye I like. I don't weigh a lot, but I can a 1.5lbs steak in one sitting

Didn't even check the link (I'm that biased).

Bible belt:
* peanuts are poison: can lead to gastric problems/food allergies
* milk & insuline sensitivity
* foods like honey, raisins,... are risky in large quantities
* the list has EGGS that's the best part of it

 

[Bible_Belt]

Peanuts are poison? I should have been dead long ago.

Got to go, overcome with meat-deficiency weakness, not strong enuff 2 wrk kybrddd...............

 

[Throttle]

I read somewhere that our teeth and jaw developed the way that they did because of all the meat the caveman ate.

yet another just-so story (see Kipling, Rudyard). in other words, strictly fantasy. we're omnivores, and we can thrive on many, many mixes of foods (notice I didn't say "nutrients", which I now strongly believe most of us would be better off treating as a modern just-so story).

 

[spesmilitis]

I used to be a vegetarian. As for skin, I had awesome skin. As for growth, I was pretty skinny, still am.