Can game really overcome lack of value if you seek more than just sex?

[DoofusDonutDude]

I've been observing - there are plenty of dudes in relationship with a solid hot women for LTR who are confident but don't have game - because they exhibit value in some or other aspect- either they're good looking , have a great personality, are rich ..or just a solid good sorted person who is doing decent in life.

I've seen guys with total **** can lives banging the hottest women because they have extremely solid game but they are unable to make them stick around. It's like a hit it and quit it thing for the women- they use the dude for fun but leave them once its time to get serious .

One female friend described such guys are "They're like junk food. Good in the moment but bad for you long term. A momentary indulgence. Long term you need something that is nourishing but hopefully somewhat fun as well"

A friend put it this way , if you want sex - "It's 60% game, 40% value" - if you want successful LTR - "It's 60% value, 40% game" .

The question is then, is game on its own enough if you seek more than just sex ?

It seems if you do not have game but have value you can have decent relationships with hot women but if you have game but not value you cannot have relationships with attractive women.

Of course, the ideal Don Juan has both value and game but that's the ideal scenario right..?

 

[zekko]

It seems if you do not have game but have value you can have decent relationships with hot women but if you have game but not value you cannot have relationships with attractive women.

It depends a lot on the woman, IMO. I know guys who seem to be very low value but they are in relationships. Some women have low self esteem and don't think they deserve a high value guy. Some like to be caretakers and like to take care of damaged men. Other women will be more demanding of what they are looking for. Basically, it takes two to tango, and not everybody is looking for the same thing.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

It depends on what the women in your life value in you.

You look at this from the male perspective, not the female perspective.

 

[Manure Spherian]

The question is then, is game on its own enough if you seek more than just sex ?

No. And that goes for average looking and homely women too, unless you two want to stay home and do nothing. How the heck would you do anything for recreation or go on a vacation or weekend getaway with no money?

I say this with the common gf-bf/LTR in mind. I’m anti-“relationships”/boyfriend, so if I were single in the current day I’d only seek casual stuff or a wife (no bf-gf scenario). I wouldn’t invest time or money in an LTR.

What brings you to ask this stuff?

 

[devilkingx2]

If you lack all forms of value you'll only be good for hookups and other forms of casual sex. Good game with no value is like making a perfect first impression but being broke and average looking.

Hot girls are going to have the highest standards for value, they're definitely going to be expecting six foot millionaires.

But there's more to value than pure raw LMS. If you happen to be an expert on places to eat and your girlfriend is a foodie then that's value. If you're friends with the bouncer/manager/bartender of a hot night club and your friends drink for free because of it that's value.

 

[zekko]

It depends on what the women in your life value in you.
You look at this from the male perspective, not the female perspective.

That's true. Some girls like a guy just because he has a large penis.
Others just want the company.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

That's true. Some girls like a guy just because he has a large penis.
Others just want the company.

Women are in their heads most of the time and that is exhausting.
Women who are attracted to me are attracted to my calm presence where they can let go of their control and relax. That type of value is difficult to put in monetary terms.

 

[zekko]

Women who are attracted to me are attracted to my calm presence where they can let go of their control and relax. That type of value is difficult to put in monetary terms.

Being able to relax and feel comfortable just being yourself around someone definitely has real value. Although you rarely see people talk about it here.

 

[SW15]

Looks are the most important part of Game. Money becomes more relevant for men ages 35+.

Personality means far less than looks or money for attracting and initially seducing women.

 

[Dr.Suave]

I've seen guys with total **** can lives banging the hottest women because they have extremely solid game but they are unable to make them stick around. It's like a hit it and quit it thing for the women- they use the dude for fun but leave them once its time to get serious .

One female friend described such guys are "They're like junk food. Good in the moment but bad for you long term. A momentary indulgence. Long term you need something that is nourishing but hopefully somewhat fun as well"

Sounds like the type of girls who will have Same Night Lays with guys they dont consider good LTR material but will make other guys wait if they have good LTR potential. These girls should be plate status only / Recreational use only.

 

[SW15]

Sounds like the type of girls who will have Same Night Lays with guys they dont consider good LTR material but will make other guys wait if they have good LTR potential. These girls should be plate status only / Recreational use only.

That thinking pattern has never made sense to me. It's best not to try to make sense out of women's thinking patterns.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Being able to relax and feel comfortable just being yourself around someone definitely has real value. Although you rarely see people talk about it here.

Women learn to mistrust men - "men only want one thing" - so most of them cannot relax around men unless they have these men under control. However, that control is tenuous, so while these women can 'relax', they cannot give over control, because that is a whole other level of trust.
For doing shibari with me, women have to come to my lair, get naked (rope feels better on skin) and trust me to respect their boundaries while they are tied up and defenceless. This is one reason why I always tell them that I won't do anything sexual during the first shibari session, even if they beg me to. That clause in the shibari negotiations often makes them giggle and ask if anyone ever begs, to which I reply truthfully that most of bunnies either 'zone out' or get incredibly horny, but I will keep to their boundaries even if they want me to cross them.
My important reason for that is that if you show the backbone that you resist the temptation, they become all the more eager to have shameless sex on the next session. Also, I never have the second session without at least a 24h cooling off period. One of my kittens went home so horny after a first session that she was reasoning with herself whether she could return that same night and convince me to do a second session, but I told her that 24h is 24h.

 

[zekko]

Women learn to mistrust men - "men only want one thing" - so most of them cannot relax around men unless they have these men under control. However, that control is tenuous, so while these women can 'relax', they cannot give over control, because that is a whole other level of trust.

That's an interesting statement, because I remember common old PUA advice would be that the girl should feel she is in immediate danger of being shagged over the dumpster. Regardless, I've always thought there was more than one way to skin a cat. I take it you are a photographer?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

That's an interesting statement, because I remember common old PUA advice would be that the girl should feel she is in immediate danger of being shagged over the dumpster.

Ah, yes, PUA advice. From my experience, I know that most PUA can pick up bimbos for ONS, but most worthwhile women are not interested in PUAs.

Regardless, I've always thought there was more than one way to skin a cat. I take it you are a photographer?

No, I do shibari with women. Although I do take photos, but most photos are private, not for public consumption. Although I helped some OF girls with making racy bondage photos.

 

[zekko]

No, I do shibari with women. Although I do take photos, but most photos are private, not for public consumption.

Oh, that's interesting. Are you paying them as models, or is this just a date activity?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Oh, that's interesting. Are you paying them as models, or is this just a date activity?

Kittens don't have to pay, although irrumatio is appreciated.
OF models pay a high flat fee or a low fee with commission.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You ask the wrong question. Value is in the eye of the beholder. If you have a lack of value for higher level women, your error is not understanding this is your ceiling at this level of value you provide.

Either you can choose to date women who accept this level of value you have and stop trying to date women far higher than your current value will allow, or you work to up your value so that you can date those women you are trying to date.

It's that simple.

Either you accept your value and date accordingly, or you work to increase your value and date accordingly.

 

[zekko]

OF models pay a high flat fee or a low fee with commission.

You're saying the models pay you, and then they sell the photos themselves?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

You're saying the models pay you, and then they sell the photos themselves?

Well, it's kind of difficult for them to do it themselves. Apart from their inability to tie their own arms behind their back, once you're tied up you cannot operate a camera.
So they come over, we go over the type of ties that would suit their clientele, and we settle on the fee she pays me for tying her up, taking photos and sending her the RAW footage for them to edit (and publish). It's a 'business deal', nothing more.
And I put that in quotes, because I'm not actively advertising for that type of work. Most of these girls are likeable, they know what they need and they respect me.
I don't tie everyone, I need to feel some joy as well. Shibari is a passion for me, I don't want to make it a business.