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Blind Spot / Texting Fails

nicksaiz65

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Hey guys. So lately I've been working on getting some dates instead of going for a same night bang, and I've been failing.

I get a girl's number(been using OLD because of coronavirus), I text them for a message or so, and then they give me the fade.

I've been talking to some members here and they say that texting for logistics is outdated, you need to chat to set up a date. But for a beginner/intermediate like me, I'm starting to think I may follow Roosh V's advice of greet them, say a comment, and set up the date.I say this because I feel like I'm really bad at texting. I'm starting to feel like it's so nuanced and just might not be for me(different things work for different people) and I should just use jumbotron text game like Roosh does. I remember you all saying in those crazy BigDave threads that he needs to stay away from texting since he's a beginner. But on the flipside, not texting to only set up the date makes sense.

Basically, would you all say I'm getting the fade because I'm dealing with girls who aren't really interested in the first place, or is it just because of bad text game? And if so, should I just go back to texting to set up the date so I don't put my foot in my mouth like I always do? Or are these examples for texting fine?

I've attached a couple texting failures. I tried to be fun and flirty, but it didn't work out. That second girl didn't even respond lmao.

So yeah. Let me know where you think the issue is and what texting strategy I should use. Tear into me guys. I'm ready to do whatever it takes to really get good at this stuff this year.

 
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nicksaiz65

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you're using OLD? simple. you're not Chad enough for her. Chad can have ****ty text game and still get laid.
Yeah. Still using OLD and looksmaxxxing. So you'd say it's because she's not interested. I'm trying to optimize my game as well though.
 

EyeOnThePrize

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In the first one you're implying there's something to break up. I get that you're trying to be funny but your intent is to get her thinking about a relationship. Have you ever been on the receiving end of this kind of behavior from a girl? It's not attractive.

In both of them your responses are super generic, especially the second one. Asking what she's doing today is boring. Bring something to the convo rather than asking her to.

1. OLD is a shotgun approach. You could get literally any kind of girl, types you didn't even know existed. It's so random sometimes that it can be a waste of time. Easier to meet compatible girls out doing something you enjoy. So don't worry about girls that stop responding, it'll just happen sometimes due to incompatibility, nothing on you.

2. For OLD, pics are huge. Hire a photographer and get some super banger pics before your next swipe. Some body, some upper torso and face, some social. I'd advise no sunglasses, show off your eyes.

3. Be bold in your convos, say something original and do so unapologetically, none of this 'i hope your day is going well' crap. Assume something and say it, who cares if you're wrong.

4. Don't ask questions. Learn to chat in statements. Pretend that what you send will be the last message in the convo. This means be short, original, and positive. This will dare girls to stop talking to you, and by effect only the interested ones will work to keep the convo going. This also keeps you from cultivating resentment(since it's so easy) and shows value. You'll be able to maintain this across multiple girls at the same time. It'll keep you consistent and instill a masculine presence in your convos.

these pointers are my opinion and are my flavor. Each man is unique and you need to find your own vibe, but these may have some nuggets to help you create it.
 

ubercat

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No magic bullets. Bust her chops on being a bad girl Cox she doesn't like sushi. If she s interested she LL play along. If not set your line again in the endless broiling ocean of OLD
 
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GioWolf

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I find with online dating, women have so many options that it leads to time wasters and flakes. Don’t invest too much time with a woman you’ve never met. The goal is to get her out in real life so you can build chemistry in person. I try not to go anymore than 10-12 messages on the app before asking to grab a drink and getting her number. Try and meet asap before they get distracted by a shinier object. Expect ghosts and flakes. It’s very time consuming. I try and set up meets for a happy hour during the week so if they flake, I’m not wasting a night during the weekend. Also, if there is no chemistry, you can finish your beer and leave rather than sit through an entire meal together. If there is chemistry, do a change of venue.
 

Amante Silvestre

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In both cases you initiated with no particular purpose, in what seems like an attempt to get a response, any response.

You just drop in cold hoping something sticks. It’s aimless, and is the kind of behavior of someone typically seeking attention.

Naturally you’d do better sticking to logistics by comparison because there is purpose behind it and requires no particular skill.

I do understand the reasoning some share on why they keep it short and sweet, why they choose not to devote time and effort and so on, and in some cases I share that approach. It makes a lot of sense. Nobody wants to waste time.

But when I do choose to put in a little effort to communicate more, it is never automatic and aimless. I am always exploiting a particular advantage that becomes apparent to me based on her efforts to communicate with me.

She has to initiate and show attention in order for me to give it. She has to show a sense of humor for me to start dropping some of my own. I’m never creating. I am always escalating what they already put in motion.

This is one area where I have developed the ability to let them unwittingly lead. But to them, it comes off as good persona, charm, boldness...whatever they really want to see. They always think there is chemistry by coincidence, when they are really just telling me what they want and all I have to do is deliver it.

When I joke it is reflective of her own sense of humor. When I share depth is is from her own display in doing so. When I flirt is a by her own innuendo. But she must make the effort.

A woman who talks can’t help but to tell you exactly what makes her tick. It’s like they give you a road map to what they believe are the signs of compatibility and a completely natural escalation.

You just have to listen.

You can’t listen if you’re the one initiating. You can’t listen if you’re the one talking more. You can’t read her if you’re coming out of left field with no aim and no idea on how they flow.

The sushi was a blind effort. You just assumed she liked it. You assumed she would respond as such. You were knocked off balance when she didn’t.

We talk a lot about always leading, but in conversations it is better to relinquish the lead to them, at least until you decide it’s time to redirect or end it. They lead, but you control.

So stick with logistics for now. Don’t try to create something out of thin air. But when a woman puts forth the effort to show you something, try to take notice and run with it. If they show nothing, you give nothing.

In time you’ll not only learn how to play their fiddle, but you’ll have quite a bit of fun pushing that envelope while doing it.
 

Atom Smasher

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They've pretty much hit the nail on the head. The way I would word it, you're too chatty, too invested. When you send pics of sushi, you are broadcasting that you're already sold on her, and you're just waiting for her acceptance of you.

Very early in the game you need to convey that you're testing her to see if she's worthy to be in your life.

I realize that guys (like me and others) who are able to do this, are pretty much unable to tell you how to do this. You need to switch from broadcasting "I'm all-in, please accept me", to a more "I might give you a shot if you're worthy" vibe. Within that vibe, be light and fun.

As the other guys said, the "I hope you're doing well". polite stuff has to go. Be thrilling. Ignite her wonder and passions. Be mysterious. Say things that can be taken two ways. You need to ignite her. Polite chit-chat doesn't cut it.

"I hope you're doing well", "How's your day going" makes you her girlfriend. That's what all her vapid girlfriends say, all day long. You don't want to be that. You want to be bold and powerful. Enigmatic. In order to switch over, you need to truly not give a f about any particular woman. Be willing to lose her. You will star to find you win more than you lose.

Kiss "polite" goodbye. Replace with excitement, mystery, enigmatic statements. Always convey that you can do just fine without her. Tease her about losing points with you if she makes a mistake. Flip that script that has her deciding whether to accept you. She wants you to be better than her, higher than her. You have the right and duty as a man to be better and higher.
 

BackInTheGame78

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Your texts are mostly boring...never send a text that says "What's up"?

For an initial text for a day send something fun like

"Just saw the cutest little squirrel running around the park gathering nuts and it reminded me of you..."

Its silly but you'll get some pretty great responses from it.
 

nicksaiz65

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In both cases you initiated with no particular purpose, in what seems like an attempt to get a response, any response.

You just drop in cold hoping something sticks. It’s aimless, and is the kind of behavior of someone typically seeking attention.

Naturally you’d do better sticking to logistics by comparison because there is purpose behind it and requires no particular skill.

I do understand the reasoning some share on why they keep it short and sweet, why they choose not to devote time and effort and so on, and in some cases I share that approach. It makes a lot of sense. Nobody wants to waste time.

But when I do choose to put in a little effort to communicate more, it is never automatic and aimless. I am always exploiting a particular advantage that becomes apparent to me based on her efforts to communicate with me.

She has to initiate and show attention in order for me to give it. She has to show a sense of humor for me to start dropping some of my own. I’m never creating. I am always escalating what they already put in motion.

This is one area where I have developed the ability to let them unwittingly lead. But to them, it comes off as good persona, charm, boldness...whatever they really want to see. They always think there is chemistry by coincidence, when they are really just telling me what they want and all I have to do is deliver it.

When I joke it is reflective of her own sense of humor. When I share depth is is from her own display in doing so. When I flirt is a by her own innuendo. But she must make the effort.

A woman who talks can’t help but to tell you exactly what makes her tick. It’s like they give you a road map to what they believe are the signs of compatibility and a completely natural escalation.

You just have to listen.

You can’t listen if you’re the one initiating. You can’t listen if you’re the one talking more. You can’t read her if you’re coming out of left field with no aim and no idea on how they flow.

The sushi was a blind effort. You just assumed she liked it. You assumed she would respond as such. You were knocked off balance when she didn’t.

We talk a lot about always leading, but in conversations it is better to relinquish the lead to them, at least until you decide it’s time to redirect or end it. They lead, but you control.

So stick with logistics for now. Don’t try to create something out of thin air. But when a woman puts forth the effort to show you something, try to take notice and run with it. If they show nothing, you give nothing.

In time you’ll not only learn how to play their fiddle, but you’ll have quite a bit of fun pushing that envelope while doing it.
That makes sense. I can see where I messed up texting is very tough. I think I'll just stick to the advice you guys gave Dave(and in this post of course), and see how it works for me. I know texting is a great tool, but for ME I think I need more practice with women before I can use it effectively.
 
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nicksaiz65

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They've pretty much hit the nail on the head. The way I would word it, you're too chatty, too invested. When you send pics of sushi, you are broadcasting that you're already sold on her, and you're just waiting for her acceptance of you.

Very early in the game you need to convey that you're testing her to see if she's worthy to be in your life.

I realize that guys (like me and others) who are able to do this, are pretty much unable to tell you how to do this. You need to switch from broadcasting "I'm all-in, please accept me", to a more "I might give you a shot if you're worthy" vibe. Within that vibe, be light and fun.

As the other guys said, the "I hope you're doing well". polite stuff has to go. Be thrilling. Ignite her wonder and passions. Be mysterious. Say things that can be taken two ways. You need to ignite her. Polite chit-chat doesn't cut it.

"I hope you're doing well", "How's your day going" makes you her girlfriend. That's what all her vapid girlfriends say, all day long. You don't want to be that. You want to be bold and powerful. Enigmatic. In order to switch over, you need to truly not give a f about any particular woman. Be willing to lose her. You will star to find you win more than you lose.

Kiss "polite" goodbye. Replace with excitement, mystery, enigmatic statements. Always convey that you can do just fine without her. Tease her about losing points with you if she makes a mistake. Flip that script that has her deciding whether to accept you. She wants you to be better than her, higher than her. You have the right and duty as a man to be better and higher.
Yeah that makes perfect sense. It's just really hard to tell when a text is flirty/fun/exciting and when it sounds needy, y'know?

I think for now, I'll text for logistics like Amante said so I don't put my foot in my mouth. This is what you guys recommended for Big Dave as well lol. Since he was still a beginner.
 

nicksaiz65

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Not texting between dates is for newbies and intermediates because they will likely text something to kill the vibe, hence for these beginner types it's best to text only for logistics and setting the date.

But for the advanced, texting is an incredible tool to build rapport and stir up the heat (attraction), so by the time you meet her in person, she is already primed for sex, absent an ASD (anti-slut defense) that might otherwise be there.

Whether you choose to text to schedule the date to gain experience or text to build rapport/vibe to gain experience, either way there will be a learning curve and you will lose some until you are versed.
Like stated, texting to build momentum is more advanced, simply because understanding the subject, specifically her IL via timeliness of responses, matching text investment, distinguishing between appropriate/non-appropriate responses when little foundation to know her has been built, looking at her biases and needs, and not coming across as needy as opposed to amused--takes time to learn.

An advanced guy can lay out all the groundwork via texts and meet her on a first date and have her in the sack within 1.5 hrs. A newbie or intermediate will likely fvck up the text exchange and there will be no first date.

Rules of Thumb:
  • Be witty and make the text exchange fun, so that she wants to reach out to you;
  • Don't invest more than she;
  • Don't invest more words than necessary, be succinct;
  • Learn when to eject;
  • Learn when to build the sexual vibe if she's open or not to build at all;
  • Learn when to spice it up and when to leave space/give distance;
  • Learn when to respond very quickly and when to very slowly;
  • Push/Pull for remaining points left out.

To your question: Not all women are texters and are willing to engage in this manner. Know they audience is simply another point to be observant of. If she is slow to text with short responses, these are not good indications to continue texting nor an indication of high IL for her to actually appear to the date.
Also, here are some old @guru1000 posts related to this. But yeah. Long story short I'll take your advice @Amante Silvestre , and see how it works. There'll be a 0% chance of me making an ass of myself, since texting is really nuanced. I just hope I don't get flaked on a ton cause I'm not texting much.
 

Visionist

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Let me dump a barrel of black pills into this thread and say that despite text game or lack thereof (especially lack thereof), looks are still what really count.

I started a text game thread too and it's got me looking back on my many failures and rejections. I did learn the rules, years ago, from mirroring her language (if she uses text shorthand for instance, I do too) to typing entirely in statements. I had long, elaborate text trains with women, several of whom couldn't stop saying how "fascinating" I was and how they would never usually text a guy so much (there's a red flag for you).

When push came to shove, it was all a waste of time. Those I had never actually met either refused to meet, eventually turned cünty or turned out to be landwhales. Those I already knew in person had long since friendzoned me anyway, how little did I know.

The advice in this thread and the thread I started is all very good advice, with one crucial parameter; everybody who has posted good advice, has their looks maxed or are continuously maxing them even further. Looks are the solid bedrock you build everything else upon. Looks are the hub of the wheel.

It doesn't matter how great your text game is, it your looks aren't maxed. It doesn't matter how lame your text game is, it your looks are maxed. Show me a HB8+ who will actually desire a guy with non-maxed looks -and to hell with his text game- over a guy with maxed looks and I'll have a fountain in Rome to sell to you. Going cheap!
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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Yeah. Still using OLD and looksmaxxxing. So you'd say it's because she's not interested. I'm trying to optimize my game as well though.
use apps. still approach. 110% of women are terrified. unless willing to have your babies it's a logistics problem atm.

more word play. bait. pull. there's little going on atm. I hear NYC is nearly on martial law. natural lifestyle shutdown shop. much Game is rough atm.

gogo through numbers. old digits. plates now or before . get momentum. high interest and anything works. start here.
 

Atom Smasher

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Yeah that makes perfect sense. It's just really hard to tell when a text is flirty/fun/exciting and when it sounds needy, y'know?

I think for now, I'll text for logistics like Amante said so I don't put my foot in my mouth. This is what you guys recommended for Big Dave as well lol. Since he was still a beginner.
Just be more subtle. Use the flirty stuff sparingly, just as you would use seasoning on food. You wouldn’t take the top off the pepper shaker snd dump everything you’ve got on the plate.

Bottom line - Don’t let her know you’re “all-in”. Make her wonder. Push-pull is rarely mentioned anymore but it’s sound practice.
 
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nicksaiz65

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use apps. still approach. 110% of women are terrified. unless willing to have your babies it's a logistics problem atm.

more word play. bait. pull. there's little going on atm. I hear NYC is nearly on martial law. natural lifestyle shutdown shop. much Game is rough atm.

gogo through numbers. old digits. plates now or before . get momentum. high interest and anything works. start here.
Yeah brother it's really rough. Can barely approach. I much prefer cold approach, but I'm using OLD while on vacation.

On those women that say "sure we can hang out after this coronavirus stuff blows over." I'm thinking of just inviting them straight to my place.
 

nicksaiz65

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Just be more subtle. Use the flirty stuff sparingly, just as you would use seasoning on food. You wouldn’t take the top off the pepper shaker snd dump everything you’ve got on the plate.

Bottom line - Don’t let her know you’re “all-in”. Make her wonder. Push-pull is rarely mentioned anymore but it’s sound practice.
Awesome. I'll keep getting numbers and try it out. I have great results with push-pull in person too from what I've gathered from going out.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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Yeah brother it's really rough. Can barely approach. I much prefer cold approach, but I'm using OLD while on vacation.

On those women that say "sure we can hang out after this coronavirus stuff blows over." I'm thinking of just inviting them straight to my place.
stay on the grind with comp Sci. don't lose your year. I understand online education is a go.

all women I know are shook. it's hilarious .

don't need no man. guaranteed if the collapse happened women are back in the kitchen making sandwiches and hiding with the children.

it's a time of men needing to double down on competence.

I like Roosh but would i trade places? f no. I always prefer rsd James Marshall, Sasha etc. James shutdown temporarily. Sasha is rich. He's well off.

Lift. Do calisthenics atm. Run. Go in nature. Meditate. I joined a meditation group. Go in solitude. Approaching is guaranteed failure atm unless high interest. I still approach.

Seed more. Bait. Lead. Create a routine. Go for a run.
 

nicksaiz65

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stay on the grind with comp Sci. don't lose your year. I understand online education is a go.

all women I know are shook. it's hilarious .

don't need no man. guaranteed if the collapse happened women are back in the kitchen making sandwiches and hiding with the children.

it's a time of men needing to double down on competence.

I like Roosh but would i trade places? f no. I always prefer rsd James Marshall, Sasha etc. James shutdown temporarily. Sasha is rich. He's well off.

Lift. Do calisthenics atm. Run. Go in nature. Meditate. I joined a meditation group. Go in solitude. Approaching is guaranteed failure atm unless high interest. I still approach.

Seed more. Bait. Lead. Create a routine. Go for a run.
Yeah, all of school has been moved to online now. On one hand, great. Assembly will be damn near a joke to pass at this point. On the other hand, fvck. I want to be at school. But it is what it is.

By the way, random side note: The way my schedule is set up, I have no choice but to take Artificial Intelligence for my last CSC Elective next semester if I want to graduate. Should I be scared? I'll put the work in no matter what though lol.

Self Improvement and Home Workouts just like you said. I'm still gonna get my sh*t handled this semester, and get the Bangs too.

I like Roosh because he's very based and Red Pilled. He's very methodical and logical. That's how I like my game, and my life really. I find that Todd V is the same way.
 
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nicksaiz65

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So in total, I got 6 numbers from Online Dating across my 10 days of Spring Break.

I couldn't get any of them to come through. Although, I was hitting 5/6 out of them with the sh*tty text game that we discussed not having in this thread.

They say failing gives you a trail of bread crumbs pointing towards what weaknesses you need to fix.

So this is nothing I don't know already, but mine is pointing towards weak text game and needing a higher SMV. All stuff I know.

Plus, more volume. 6 numbers isn't that many. Let's try 30-50.

Guys... honestly idk if I'll EVER get texting. It's so nuanced and idk if nicksaiz65 will ever have the social acuity to get it. So for now, I'll just be using Roosh V's texting script, texting for logistics like @Amante Silvestre said. Although I get what people are saying when you should text. I may have to text like a JumboTron/beginner for the rest of my life cause I don't think that I personally will ever get texting, JumboTroning is the only way I can avoid putting my foot in my mouth. Even if it's not optimal in the grand scheme of things, it may be optimal for ME.

Here's Roosh's Texting Script:

Me: Hey Denise, it's Roosh. How are you?
Her: I'm good. I just got home from work/school. And you? (If she doesn't ask how you are, she won't agree to a date)
Me: I just got done playing frisbee in the park... It was pretty fun. How about we meet tomorrow night at 8 PM?
Her: Okay sure.
Me: Let's meet at Cafe Cosi near Dupont.
Her: That works for me.
Me: Cool.

Does that look ok to you all? I love Roosh's stuff so it must have some validity. But I wanted to see what you guys thought of his texting script.
 
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