Biggest mistake men make when they are in serious LTR.

[RangerMIke]

Spent last night listen to a buddy who is going through a marriage breakup. I've had these conversations with many guy friends over the years while they polished off whatever bottle of what they were drinking (last night it was gin). A majority of these break-ups all boils down to two things... and yes, it relates to money.

If you are in a relationship with a chick where you make more money, you are headed for trouble if you do not control the spending. So many guys who head towards break-ups turn their paychecks over to their women and let her do whatever the fvck she wants. The reason is that chicks think the SPENDING of money is equal to MAKING money. If you do not control the finances she will equate spending time, spending money, as THE SAME as spending time, making money. Give her some discipline, put her on a budget, and whatever you do NEVER EVER allow her to dictate to you want YOU spend your money on. Pay your bills and take care of your children but NEVER let her deny you money to do things you like. The 1st law of Chick finance (like nature abhors a vacuum) is that they will spend whatever the fvck they have. They are good at stretching a dollar, if they have the patience and desire to spend HOURS clipping coupons, and searching for deals. Chicks LOVE shopping, make her use these skills to the advantage of the household.... make her EARN the right to brag about her contribution. If she controls all the spending she will have no respect for you.

The second thing... If she makes more money than you there is a HIGH probability that no matter what you do you are fvcked. If you want to keep her, you better try and make more money.

Yea I know... it's not fair. I think relationships are a bad deal for men and they should stay away from them, but a common denominator of all the times over the last 20 years I've listened to the same run down of the break ups these issues IMO are the root cause.

 

[The Duke]

When I first got married I controlled all of the finances and kept a close eye on our accounts. This always irritated my exwife. Eventually I had enough trust in her to stop being concerned with it but that led to me having no clue about how much we were making, saving, or spending. It wasn't until we went thru our divorce that I started looking into all of our accounts.

That's when I couldn't believe what I saw. She had a Victoria's Secret card that she was blowing $600/month on panties/bra's/lotion. We had no where near the amount of savings we should of had. She was spending $400-$500 on clothes and shoes. She had stuff in our closet that had never been worn. She also opened a bank account at another bank and deposited $4000 that I had no clue about.

If you have already made the mistake of combining finances with a woman, make sure to run a credit check on her to see what she actually has hidden that you don't know about.

Never again will I let any female manage my finances. She will get an allowance or everything will be separate. I was very fortunate that we both made lots of money and there was never a shortage, but there was lots of waste.

 

[AttackFormation]

Never again will I let any female manage my finances. She will get an allowance or everything will be separate. I was very fortunate that we both made lots of money and there was never a shortage, but there was lots of waste.

I don't think she saw it as "waste" she was buying the experience of "spending money" at heir leisure and all that implies for her self-image, not the clothes themselves. That's why she doesn't even need to wear them. From her point of view you weren't managing finances, you were telling her she couldn't go to Wonderland.

 

[RichardTheFrog]

When I first got married I controlled all of the finances and kept a close eye on our accounts. This always irritated my exwife. Eventually I had enough trust in her to stop being concerned with it but that led to me having no clue about how much we were making, saving, or spending. It wasn't until we went thru our divorce that I started looking into all of our accounts.

That's when I couldn't believe what I saw. She had a Victoria's Secret card that she was blowing $600/month on panties/bra's/lotion. We had no where near the amount of savings we should of had. She was spending $400-$500 on clothes and shoes. She had stuff in our closet that had never been worn. She also opened a bank account at another bank and deposited $4000 that I had no clue about.

If you have already made the mistake of combining finances with a woman, make sure to run a credit check on her to see what she actually has hidden that you don't know about.

Never again will I let any female manage my finances. She will get an allowance or everything will be separate. I was very fortunate that we both made lots of money and there was never a shortage, but there was lots of waste.

Why would she even be worth an allowance?

Why does nobody point out their awful behavior? And instead they tell us to "work on ourselves."

I wish it were not this way.

Unless you think I should practice my "Maury Povich Routine" and my sniper negs? Maybe wear a fancy peacock bracelet?

 

[sazc]

When I first got married I controlled all of the finances and kept a close eye on our accounts. This always irritated my exwife. Eventually I had enough trust in her to stop being concerned with it but that led to me having no clue about how much we were making, saving, or spending. It wasn't until we went thru our divorce that I started looking into all of our accounts.

That's when I couldn't believe what I saw. She had a Victoria's Secret card that she was blowing $600/month on panties/bra's/lotion. We had no where near the amount of savings we should of had. She was spending $400-$500 on clothes and shoes. She had stuff in our closet that had never been worn. She also opened a bank account at another bank and deposited $4000 that I had no clue about.

If you have already made the mistake of combining finances with a woman, make sure to run a credit check on her to see what she actually has hidden that you don't know about.

Never again will I let any female manage my finances. She will get an allowance or everything will be separate. I was very fortunate that we both made lots of money and there was never a shortage, but there was lots of waste.

My ex husband would have done the same thing if I hadn't been so involved in our finances.... He would have spent spent spent!!

Instead he called me controlling when I refused to contribute to whatever impulse purchase he felt the need to aquire in the moment.... And then I was controlling because I didn't want to live like a hoarder, with sh1t stacked everywhere, throw a match in and it all goes up in a flame ball.

The approach we used was, we totaled our salaries and then we figured out the percentage contribution each of made towards that total. I made 45%, he made 55% (he got paid more then I did) so I paid 45% of the joint bills (gas, water, insurance, mortgage, groceries, eating out, joint/agreed purchases, etc) he paid 55% of the total bills.

Clothes, shoes, makeup, personal desires, etc, we paid for out of our own money.

What we failed to discuss/factor in, was retirement savings. One person will save for retirement and the other will not. In the event of a split, that retirement becomes "fair game". Just keep that in mind.

If you are thinking of making it official, be mindful of the persons financial past. People don't change. Be sure to have ALL the financial discussions you need to have before you tie the knot. Be specific about your goals and listen to see if the other person is on board, enthusiastically on board, or simply agreeing with you passively.

Footnote: you don't have to get married to be committed to someone, live together and split living expenses.

 

[RangerMIke]

My ex husband would have done the same thing if I hadn't been so involved in our finances.... He would have spent spent spent!!

I know plenty of men that are bad with money. My financial adviser is a woman, and I bring her into every deal I make because I trust her advice. She recently married a guy that works for her... THAT relationship will not last long, but I digress.

Gender does not guarantee one way or another you will be good with money. But if you have a partner that does not respect what you bring into a relationship, and appreciate it, then you are done.

Also controlling your finances does not guarantee you will be successful in a LTR. I controlled the finances in my house and things still went side-ways. My point is that NORMAL healthy well adjusted women, like to spend money and shop. I'm assuming that any LTR you happen to be in is with a normal woman. Normal healthy well adjusted men, do not like to shop... we like to hunt. We figure out what we need and we go get it, men, on their own ALWAYS have LOTS of disposable income... much of which gets spent chasing or trying to impress women. If you are married, that disposable income should be set aside for the future, but if you give it to your woman (again not all women, but most), will just shop and spend whatever is available.

Women that are in relationship with men that can not control their spending (i.e. men that act like chicks) the woman in that relationship gets sick of it and leaves, because he is NOT full-filling his gender role.

 

[Urbanyst]

The biggest mistake men make in LTR's is doing stupid sh*t that's bad for them because they think it will either impress the woman or make her happy.

I don't care what anyone says. After health, MONEY is the most important thing in the world for having a quality life. Don't flush it away on dumb hoes.

My spending is always under my control. I would never allow a woman to spend MY MONEY under any circumstance.

 

[BeExcellent]

This is a good topic. I recall when I was about to be married my wise old dad stated his only concern which was "You earn more money than he does. This concerns me." And of course I had a rationale why it was fine....we were both business people, I sold my time, he sold his inventory (alcoholic beverages) and therefore that his potential to earn was unlimited while mine carried a finite limit (one can only sell so many hours a day, and only at a rate the market will pay)...etc. etc.

My father was correct. I was the more financially savvy one, the more responsible one (by FAR), the more ambitious one, the more successful one and the more disciplined one. My ex was not a spendthrift at all, but he got very complacent and did not fulfill his gender role...which at the time I didn't know what a huge deal that was and how it would sabotage the marriage, but it sure as hell did.

Sometimes I get flamed on here because I prefer a man who makes more than I do (and I do very well) but it comes directly out of what @RangerMIke is talking about.

This is also a large part of why I doubt I will marry again (although the boyfriend is already talking about that.) and why keeping money separate is important to me. While the boyfriend is financially independent and his children grown, I am still looking at financial responsibility for minor children and college. I do appreciate that the BF is careful about spending and open about the fact that his income is not unlimited. I respect that a great deal. If he wants something he can buy it within reason, and I'm never going to impede that...he doesn't impede what I do either.

I think LTRs/marriage is a different landscape for those who are done having children/raising a family/building a nest egg & family assets. I agree that marriage is unnecessary in this landscape and perhaps even ill advised. But I also can see the value of a long term companion and someone to enjoy life's journey and life's fruits with. But that doesn't require marriage. I do think there are some benefits along the lines of next of kin, end of life choices and so forth (these are things you think about when you reach the back nine of life after completing the front nine...) but even those concerns can be handled through trusts and things if a couple wants a formal structure in place. So I think when one is older and past the family creation phase of life things shift because priorities shift.

For men starting out who are looking at doing the marriage/family/kids thing? I concur 100%. Do not ever turn over your finances to a woman (or anyone else for that matter.) You are asking for trouble in vacating that responsibility.

 

[ubercat]

Isn't it pretty easy. Just have a joint account for the household. If you earn a bit more pay 2/3 of your salary in there and half of hers. Take turns to pay the bills. And say to her anything we save out of the household account can be used to go on holiday. Any long term relationship needs shared projects and goals. Saving for holidays is an easy one.

 

[AJ84]

Isn't it pretty easy. Just have a joint account for the household. If you earn a bit more pay 2/3 of your salary in there and half of hers. Take turns to pay the bills. And say to her anything we save out of the household account can be used to go on holiday. Any long term relationship needs shared projects and goals. Saving for holidays is an easy one.

That's a good idea.

I me er

The biggest mistake men make in LTR's is doing stupid sh*t that's bad for them because they think it will either impress the woman or make her happy.

I don't care what anyone says. After health, MONEY is the most important thing in the world for having a quality life. Don't flush it away on dumb hoes.

My spending is always under my control. I would never allow a woman to spend MY MONEY under any circumstance.

For sure don't flush it away on any girl really.

But you are always stating how you need money to attract women. That only works if you plan to spend that money on them no?

You're not going to give your credit card to a girl, of course, but what is your strategy around using your money to attract them while making sure that you are not flushing it away?

 

[fastlife]

Strongly agree. A couple points I'll add:

• If you don't have your finances, health, etc. in order, a relationship will most likely do little to improve it--but those factors will undermine the health of your relationship.
• The cost of keeping a woman rises over time. As women age, and their potential to procure provisioning diminishes, their security-needs within the relationship also increase. A hot 20 y/o will stick around with a deadbeat for a couple years; a 26 y/o will not.
• The amount of money needed to support a single male in a happy, fulfilling lifestyle is very low. If your passions don't align with making more money past that threshold, then know that you will probably need to practice a shorter term mating strategy--develop those skills. If a family is on your to-do list, you definitely need to make sure you have all your ducks in a row before you introduce a woman into that equation.
• The more qualified you are to be a good longterm partner, the less inclined you'll be to commit to a longterm arrangement. Less established men desperately want a girlfriend because of the insecurity in the rest of their lives.
• Once you're playing provider game, your woman will expect you to live up to that role. If she gets promoted or begins to think she brings more to the table than you do--well, that's pretty much it.
• Holding frame can only help to mitigate these effects (with all but the most ride-or-die women)--you'll be holding frame as she's walking out the door (which is a perfectly legitimate frame if your visions for yourself and her visions for your relationship don't align).

Personally, I'm happy with cultivating a lot of short term relationships & totally disqualifying myself from being a provider--but this is a Cost/Benefit equation that every man has to work out for himself. If circumstances change, your game has to change with it.

 

[Murk]

Strongly agree. A couple points I'll add:

• If you don't have your finances, health, etc. in order, a relationship will most likely do little to improve it--but those factors will undermine the health of your relationship.
• The cost of keeping a woman rises over time. As women age, and their potential to procure provisioning diminishes, their security-needs within the relationship also increase. A hot 20 y/o will stick around with a deadbeat for a couple years; a 26 y/o will not.
• The amount of money needed to support a single male in a happy, fulfilling lifestyle is very low. If your passions don't align with making more money past that threshold, then know that you will probably need to practice a shorter term mating strategy--develop those skills. If a family is on your to-do list, you definitely need to make sure you have all your ducks in a row before you introduce a woman into that equation.
• The more qualified you are to be a good longterm partner, the less inclined you'll be to commit to a longterm arrangement. Less established men desperately want a girlfriend because of the insecurity in the rest of their lives.
• Once you're playing provider game, your woman will expect you to live up to that role. If she gets promoted or begins to think she brings more to the table than you do--well, that's pretty much it.
• Holding frame can only help to mitigate these effects (with all but the most ride-or-die women)--you'll be holding frame as she's walking out the door (which is a perfectly legitimate frame if your visions for yourself and her visions for your relationship don't align).

Personally, I'm happy with cultivating a lot of short term relationships & totally disqualifying myself from being a provider--but this is a Cost/Benefit equation that every man has to work out for himself. If circumstances change, your game has to change with it.

A lot of wisdom there brother.

 

[Roober]

The biggest mistake men make in LTR's is doing stupid sh*t that's bad for them because they think it will either impress the woman or make her happy.

I don't care what anyone says. After health, MONEY is the most important thing in the world for having a quality life. Don't flush it away on dumb hoes.

My spending is always under my control. I would never allow a woman to spend MY MONEY under any circumstance.

Money is the number one cause of divorce, however, the bolded statement is really what it boils down to. As it relates to finances, men get awefully ridiculously stupid with their money. @RangerMIke friend's divorces and separations are far more centered around your friends other issues that just the money as you described.

A man should be good with his money. H3ll, men are farrrrr better with numbers than women, so it makes perfect sense right? If you have a woman that doesn't match your financial goals and spending habits, then it is likely not a good fit. As @Urbanyst said, men are "doing stupid $hit that's bad for them". Now, I also believe there should be full transparency with finances once a relationship hits that serious level. This includes sharing of investments, credit cards, bank accounts, retirement accounts, everything. **The one caveat here is something I learned years ago. No man should ever let any woman know about all of his money. You always need to keep a "cash stash", 100K+ is a good start. This can be done by "going to vegas", but only gambling half (or less) of what you withdrew**

So, if a mean leads and acts the way he needs to act, the woman's spending won't get out of control. I wouldn't want a woman so fixated on material items anyway as I live a very simple lifestyle with my 2005 toyota, 32" TV from 2010, and IKEA furniture. So making more than a woman shouldn't be an issue at all unless... he is an idiot. How is he an idiot? He's lets his wife work a crappy job where the disparity in income is significant. If a dude makes 200k, he better be with a woman who makes at least half of that. If he wants a lazy pretty girl, that is a grave that he dug himself...

Now if the woman makes more, I think that is a significant advantage for men. If they are good with money, and know how to spend the woman's money wisely, then that is probably one of the best situations to be in. If he can take care of everything (sex, her moods, and everything else), then they can be quite successful. However, the fall comes when the guy makes no money AND has no ambition. A man without ambition is not really a man at all. A man has to have a purpose in life greater than himself. Without that, he is merely an androgynous being wasting precious oxygen for everyone else. The successful wealthy woman will not stick around for long...

So basically, it is not nearly as black and white as you suggest, there are variables to each income dynamic that are required for each situation to be successful.

I would almost favor this approach....
1. Date an older successful woman (25-35) when your young and in college.
2. Have her support you through everything
3. When you get your career started and find yourself approaching her salary (cause you will), then you look for the 20-something, while your at around 26-30 yourself. your older lady will be hitting the wall and wanting to settle down, but your not ready yet.

 

[marmel75]

I disagree with this. My wife is phenomenal with money management.

I'm much more likely to spend money than she is, but I'm also pretty careful as well and dump 10% of my check into a managed 401K and another $250/mo into a managed IRA as well.

I don't ask permission to do sh!t. I do what I want within reason and if I'm going to make a significant purchase I let her know beforehand(ie like buying a car or something like that). I don't typically make big purchases tho...I'd rather drive a 15 year old car that I've had paid off for 12 years into the ground than buy a newer one complete with a newer payment. In fact before we had some big house expenses this year, we had 0 credit card debt and really 0 debt in general other than the mortgage on the house(which should be paid off in about 10 years).

So this might hold true for SOME women but certainly not all...in fact I think pretty much all of the women I've dated were good with money.

 

[Urbanyst]

For men starting out who are looking at doing the marriage/family/kids thing? I concur 100%. Do not ever turn over your finances to a woman (or anyone else for that matter.) You are asking for trouble in vacating that responsibility.

Absolutely.

This is really all you had to say. The rest of your essay is unnecessary lol.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

If there were two things I could impress upon the young men on this forum it would be:

Always control your own money.
Never combine finances with a woman.

It has cost me over $200,000 dollars in the past eight years alone because I did not adhere to the above mentioned rules when I was younger.

-Augustus-

 

[Urbanyst]

For sure don't flush it away on any girl really.

But you are always stating how you need money to attract women. That only works if you plan to spend that money on them no?

You're not going to give your credit card to a girl, of course, but what is your strategy around using your money to attract them while making sure that you are not flushing it away?

MONEY attracts women like flies.

MONEY provides you with a better lifestyle and ACCESS to things broke people don't have access to. That's what makes it attractive. Women want access to better things so they and their future kids can have a better life. Eat better food, live in a better neighborhood, wear better clothes, travel, etc. Its not complicated lol.

If you marry a man with MONEY then his MONEY becomes your MONEY. You don't have to spend it on women. You just have to have it to draw them in. They will work to get access to it. You have sex with them in the meantime.

 

[Trump]

If you are in a relationship with a chick where you make more money, you are headed for trouble if you do not control the spending. So many guys who head towards break-ups turn their paychecks over to their women and let her do whatever the fvck she wants. The reason is that chicks think the SPENDING of money is equal to MAKING money. If you do not control the finances she will equate spending time, spending money, as THE SAME as spending time, making money. Give her some discipline, put her on a budget, and whatever you do NEVER EVER allow her to dictate to you want YOU spend your money on. Pay your bills and take care of your children but NEVER let her deny you money to do things you like. The 1st law of Chick finance (like nature abhors a vacuum) is that they will spend whatever the fvck they have. They are good at stretching a dollar, if they have the patience and desire to spend HOURS clipping coupons, and searching for deals. Chicks LOVE shopping, make her use these skills to the advantage of the household.... make her EARN the right to brag about her contribution. If she controls all the spending she will have no respect for you.

I don't know about that bro.

I've handed my paycheque to her
I've had her dictate what I can spend my money on
I've spent a lot of money on her

She couldn't have enough sex with me.

Sure beats being home Friday and Saturday night with no one to talk to while telling yourself you are alpha.

The second thing... If she makes more money than you there is a HIGH probability that no matter what you do you are fvcked. If you want to keep her, you better try and make more money.

I don't know about that bro.

Met a girl 2 weeks ago. Beautiful beautiful 25 year Korean girl. She split the rent with her boyfriend, split dining out, split everything.

SHE made more money than him
SHE worked harder than him
SHE paid for half of everything
HIS ambition was to be a Bowler.

SHE was 110% in love with her boyfriend.

 

[AJ84]

MONEY attracts women like flies.

MONEY provides you with a better lifestyle and ACCESS to things broke people don't have access to. That's what makes it attractive. Women want access to better things so they and their future kids can have a better life. Eat better food, live in a better neighborhood, wear better clothes, travel, etc. Its not complicated lol.

If you marry a man with MONEY then his MONEY becomes your MONEY. You don't have to spend it on women. You just have to have it to draw them in. They will work to get access to it. You have sex with them in the meantime.

So, you just dangle the money or the appearance of money in her face for as long as she will have sex with you, until she realizes you're stringing her along and dumps you? I suppose that's a good strategy to lure women to sleep with you and 'ride' it until the jig is up.

For that, you don't actually need a lot of money, you just need to buy one good second hand Hugo Boss suit, maybe lease a Lexus. A lot of guys fake status to get laid just like a lot of women fake attraction to get rich men, and it works for both.

 

[BeExcellent]

Absolutely.

This is really all you had to say. The rest of your essay is unnecessary lol.

Well you are in your early 30's, never married, and may desire children one day. So sure, that part is what applies to you. The rest of what I had to say is more applicable to those who have already been through the marriage and kids thing. In 15 years time you'll have more life experience and a different perspective. As a person of means I frankly have to be careful of guys looking for a sugar mama (no thank you). Just as successful men have to be careful of the gold diggers and the "Oops, I'm pregnant" chicks. Having money is great and all, but it can create problems that are different than the ones it solves.

The best way to be certain somebody isn't interested in one's money is to be crystal clear that combining financial means is off limits. That tends to expose financial motivation rather succinctly.