“The 22 Rules That Flip the Script With Women… And How You Can Use Them Tonight”

Most guys accidentally kill attraction before they even speak. They assume they need a bigger bank account, a better physique, or smoother lines. They miss the point.

Female desire operates on a specific set of psychological triggers.  Break them, and you're invisible. Follow them, and you become magnetic.

I learned this the hard way. Years of freezing up. Getting friend-zoned. Watching other guys walk away with the girl I wanted. Then I discovered a set of 22 simple rules that rewired my entire approach.

Read more...

Being brutal and taking advantage of others is attractive

jhonny9546

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 17, 2024
Messages
2,301
Reaction score
460
Location
Italy
go to 10:40

I've always seen and observed it. I've never respected this type of man, because they simply did things I didn't agree with, yet I noticed they got women, even tho, these are what I consider to be "red flags":

a) He speaks badly of others behind their backs, uses them for his own purposes, mocks them, devalues them to elevate himself.
b) He's arrogant and brutal, just like you say, and takes advantage of others.
c) He usually do cold reading, takes the trouble to judge others, as if he knew everything about life, and in doing so, he labels others and creates a distorted image, which from that moment on puts him in a position of power, and categorizer others.
 
Last edited:

BaronOfHair

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 14, 2024
Messages
5,078
Reaction score
2,660
Age
37
go to 10:40

I've always seen and observed it. I've never respected this type of man, because they simply did things I didn't agree with, yet I noticed they got women, even tho, these are what I consider to be "red flags":

a) He speaks badly of others behind their backs, uses them for his own purposes, mocks them, devalues them to elevate himself.
b) He's arrogant and brutal, just like you say, and takes advantage of others.
c) He usually do cold reading, takes the trouble to judge others, as if he knew everything about life, and in doing so, he labels others and creates a distorted image, which from that moment on puts him in a position of power, and categorizer others.
Similar to what Pauline Kael observed https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/the-insoluable.283647/ all the way back in 1980. If the choices are as stark as The Thug vs The Milquetoast Middle Manager, chicks are going to go for The Thug
 

BillyPilgrim

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 9, 2021
Messages
5,883
Reaction score
4,695
A tale as old as the bible.
 

OngBak

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Dec 9, 2023
Messages
294
Reaction score
108
Age
27
go to 10:40

I've always seen and observed it. I've never respected this type of man, because they simply did things I didn't agree with, yet I noticed they got women, even tho, these are what I consider to be "red flags":

a) He speaks badly of others behind their backs, uses them for his own purposes, mocks them, devalues them to elevate himself.
b) He's arrogant and brutal, just like you say, and takes advantage of others.
c) He usually do cold reading, takes the trouble to judge others, as if he knew everything about life, and in doing so, he labels others and creates a distorted image, which from that moment on puts him in a position of power, and categorizer others.
You are defining a Narcissist, woman cant distinguish between genuine confidence and fake confidence, both make them tingle, both involve triggering emotions. Only that Narcissists affect womans emotion even more, mostly negative and doing it constantly, naturally, severly unpredictable they are basically the game. The worst type tbh, because the only thing that helps with them is to either kill them (which happens even in reallife, People get sick of their bs) or remove your presence.
 

Serenity

Moderator
Joined
Aug 19, 2013
Messages
5,143
Reaction score
5,049
Age
34
Location
Eye of the storm
One of the reasons I'm not around much anymore is that this forum tries to solve the issue of getting women, but I'm well beyond that. There are many ways to get women and just as many with good moral alignment as bad, but again I see someone erroneously think that being a d!ck is the way.

The major flaw with that strategy is that it generally attracts a flavor of women who are broken. You'll get them, for sure, but in the end it will not be satisfying.

It's in my opinion crude and unrefined. I think of such guys as low level manipulators, I can see them from a mile away and so can most. The more naive will fall for it though and see positive even if it's a net negative given a broader context and understanding.

I want to note that hoe_math never really describes the form these traits may take, you can display all of them while still being perceived positively by most people if calibrated and used appropriately. I'm not saying he's wrong, he isn't, but it's very easy to misconstrue the form it might take and imagine something a lot more crude than what he intends.

So yeah, what you're imagining is indeed attractive to some subset of women, but very unlikely the type you'd want to keep around. Getting women isn't really that hard, getting the right type is magnitudes harder.
 

Just because a woman listens to you and acts interested in what you say doesn't mean she really is. She might just be acting polite, while silently wishing that the date would hurry up and end, or that you would go away... and never come back.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

Scaramouche

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
4,441
Reaction score
1,555
Age
82
Location
Australia
Well Jhonnie,The concept tthat power is an aphrodisiac has been around for Centuries.Not that different from saying,"Being brutal and taking advantage of others is attractive".
 

Tilex

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
884
Reaction score
1,015
Narcissism is a sign of low IQ. The brain doesn't operate on an extended level to have a better understanding of human survival.
It's basically a short term strategy for massive gain.
Before the 4th industrial age, all the narcissism traits you mentioned would've gotten you killed in your sleep.
 
Last edited:

Travel memoir21

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
1,863
Reaction score
1,068
Age
40
Location
Rio Grande Valley, Texas
The truth of the matter is you should stop basing your identity on women, stop trying to attract the wrong kind of women and attract the right kind of women that are righteous, modest, chaste and would make for a quality relationship, rather than a worldy h0 most clueless Men are trying to pin down. Stop basing your identity on women or external validation and instead base it on a higher power, your purpose that leads to the enhancement of your community around you, your brotherhood amongst other Men that are good company, fun and enhances your life, but most of all seek gratitude and be thankful for things that is currently happening to you and live contently until a quality woman notices your overall contentment and can't help but to join in.
 

Prepostereax

Don Juan
Joined
Jan 11, 2025
Messages
144
Reaction score
161
go to 10:40
That was from a couple of years ago, hoe_math has updated his graphs since then.
He also mentioned Henry Kissinger as his example here, ie to pull off Machiavellian levels of dark triad traits, you better have stratospheric levels of power.

This vid explains it far better

"It's not about being mean.
It's about being strong enough to get away with being mean."
 

inquisitor

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Feb 17, 2021
Messages
350
Reaction score
231
Age
23
Location
Philippines
So yeah, what you're imagining is indeed attractive to some subset of women, but very unlikely the type you'd want to keep around. Getting women isn't really that hard, getting the right type is magnitudes harder.
True.

In other words...
Congratulations, you got the woman,
or that she now finds you attractive.
Are you certain that she is the kind of woman you want in your life, though?
 

OngBak

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Dec 9, 2023
Messages
294
Reaction score
108
Age
27
One of the reasons I'm not around much anymore is that this forum tries to solve the issue of getting women, but I'm well beyond that. There are many ways to get women and just as many with good moral alignment as bad, but again I see someone erroneously think that being a d!ck is the way.

The major flaw with that strategy is that it generally attracts a flavor of women who are broken. You'll get them, for sure, but in the end it will not be satisfying.

It's in my opinion crude and unrefined. I think of such guys as low level manipulators, I can see them from a mile away and so can most. The more naive will fall for it though and see positive even if it's a net negative given a broader context and understanding.

I want to note that hoe_math never really describes the form these traits may take, you can display all of them while still being perceived positively by most people if calibrated and used appropriately. I'm not saying he's wrong, he isn't, but it's very easy to misconstrue the form it might take and imagine something a lot more crude than what he intends.

So yeah, what you're imagining is indeed attractive to some subset of women, but very unlikely the type you'd want to keep around. Getting women isn't really that hard, getting the right type is magnitudes harder.
Thats weird though, the People who can see through it are usually the ones, that get successfully framed as manipulative by these "low manipulative" People. They are constantly forging a masterplan to look good. I have always witnessed this and 99% of the time they won that framing, removing your presence was always the only option and living with the thought, how people can be naive and believe the manipulator.
 

OngBak

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Dec 9, 2023
Messages
294
Reaction score
108
Age
27
The truth of the matter is you should stop basing your identity on women, stop trying to attract the wrong kind of women and attract the right kind of women that are righteous, modest, chaste and would make for a quality relationship, rather than a worldy h0 most clueless Men are trying to pin down. Stop basing your identity on women or external validation and instead base it on a higher power, your purpose that leads to the enhancement of your community around you, your brotherhood amongst other Men that are good company, fun and enhances your life, but most of all seek gratitude and be thankful for things that is currently happening to you and live contently until a quality woman notices your overall contentment and can't help but to join in.
Brotherhood is rare, moreso if the ones dont lift when you are an adult in your 16-30s. There is a strong disconnection between People who workout and not, I personally dont get along with Low-T People or People who dont workout, it just doesnt work. They always turn out to be borderline insecure and jealous. Its true though, High T increases status seeking and fairness in behavior, they are less likely to be manipulative.
 

Divorced w 3

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
3,793
Reaction score
2,442
Narcissism is a sign of low IQ. The brain doesn't operate on an extended level to have a better understanding of human survival.
It's basically a short term strategy for massive gain.
Before the 4th industrial age, all the narcissism traits you mentioned would've gotten you killed in your sleep.
So why is my IQ above 140?
 

Divorced w 3

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
3,793
Reaction score
2,442
One of the reasons I'm not around much anymore is that this forum tries to solve the issue of getting women, but I'm well beyond that. There are many ways to get women and just as many with good moral alignment as bad, but again I see someone erroneously think that being a d!ck is the way.

The major flaw with that strategy is that it generally attracts a flavor of women who are broken. You'll get them, for sure, but in the end it will not be satisfying.

It's in my opinion crude and unrefined. I think of such guys as low level manipulators, I can see them from a mile away and so can most. The more naive will fall for it though and see positive even if it's a net negative given a broader context and understanding.

I want to note that hoe_math never really describes the form these traits may take, you can display all of them while still being perceived positively by most people if calibrated and used appropriately. I'm not saying he's wrong, he isn't, but it's very easy to misconstrue the form it might take and imagine something a lot more crude than what he intends.

So yeah, what you're imagining is indeed attractive to some subset of women, but very unlikely the type you'd want to keep around. Getting women isn't really that hard, getting the right type is magnitudes harder.
Speaking only for myself it was a way of suppressing ‘negative’ emotions and employing certain sets of behaviors to navigate a world that was dangerous and uncertain, due to lack of any sort of proper parental guide in childhood. It’s essentially like learning the language the wrong way, yes you can speak it but then you don’t know how to explain any of its concepts and you certainly don’t have any ability to read and write. You don’t even realize until you start to have others correct you and then instead of embracing that information you fight back against it aggressively because that info was shared with you in a rage likely by someone close to you that’s hit a breakpoint.

So yes, you are going to generally attract people that are willing to live with Emotional and personal deregulation, but I don’t think the behaviors are generally a massive performance as that would be exhausting and near impossible. I think my own experience is that a shyt ton of people were absolutely floored as it related to the state of my former marriage, almost nobody notices it because on the outside you look perfect. I think a few people see it, those people may lean more my way than they care to admit.
 

Travel memoir21

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
1,863
Reaction score
1,068
Age
40
Location
Rio Grande Valley, Texas
Brotherhood is rare, moreso if the ones dont lift when you are an adult in your 16-30s. There is a strong disconnection between People who workout and not, I personally dont get along with Low-T People or People who dont workout, it just doesnt work. They always turn out to be borderline insecure and jealous. Its true though, High T increases status seeking and fairness in behavior, they are less likely to be manipulative.
Brotherhood rare? Im a retired Air Force Vet and I miss the camaraderie amongst the guys I was with, Bootcamp and tech school and deployments were some of the most spiritually freeing days of my life. Once you experience that type of bonding amongst your amigos, ya never want to go back and you yearn for it in your life always. I would put that type of experience a notch above winning a District Basketball championship my Sophomore year in High School. I still keep in contact with those guys. Stop chasing the pvssy and experience a harley ride with the dudes in an Arizona desert and go camping bonfire style and have fun bro. You’re only 26. Follow The Bro Code, don’t pedestelize women and don’t ever touch another dude’s girl who happens to be in a relationship. That’s dishonorable, creating unnecessary drama and reeks bad Karma and consequences. Low T people? manipulative people? It depends on what type of relationship those communications are based on, if it’s based on selfishness and fast gratification, then what do you expect? If that relationship is based on a higher power, have a greater purpose than obtaining pvssy like noble goals like helping out your community instead of self aggrandizement, you’d probably see that person in a much better light. It’s all about having that positive boundary out there. A Man may not be an mma or weight lifting partner to me, but he can definitely be getting a beer or a coffee at coffee shop to me. Those Philosophical discussions over a nice glass of brew to the sounds of George Strait playing in the background never gets old.


1BA2570E-AE1C-41E3-BB6D-BFDBEA824142.jpeg
 

Divorced w 3

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
3,793
Reaction score
2,442
Brotherhood rare? Im a retired Air Force Vet and I miss the camaraderie amongst the guys I was with, Bootcamp and tech school and deployments were some of the most spiritually freeing days of my life. Once you experience that type of bonding amongst your amigos, ya never want to go back and you yearn for it in your life always. I would put that type of experience a notch above winning a District Basketball championship my Sophomore year in High School. I still keep in contact with those guys. Stop chasing the pvssy and experience a harley ride with the dudes in an Arizona desert and go camping bonfire style and have fun bro. You’re only 26. Follow The Bro Code, don’t pedestelize women and don’t ever touch another dude’s girl who happens to be in a relationship. That’s dishonorable, creating unnecessary drama and reeks bad Karma and consequences. Low T people? manipulative people? It depends on what type of relationship those communications are based on, if it’s based on selfishness and fast gratification, then what do you expect? If that relationship is based on a higher power, have a greater purpose than obtaining pvssy like noble goals like helping out your community instead of self aggrandizement, you’d probably see that person in a much better light. It’s all about having that positive boundary out there. A Man may not be an mma or weight lifting partner to me, but he can definitely be getting a beer or a coffee at coffee shop to me. Those Philosophical discussions over a nice glass of brew to the sounds of George Strait playing in the background never gets old.


View attachment 14870
Deployments were spiritual? My childhood friend went on 7 life fire missions in the last five weeks. I don’t think that’s the adjective he’d use.
 

Travel memoir21

Master Don Juan
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
1,863
Reaction score
1,068
Age
40
Location
Rio Grande Valley, Texas
Deployments were spiritual? My childhood friend went on 7 life fire missions in the last five weeks. I don’t think that’s the adjective he’d use.
Anything were your deprived physical comforts such as air conditioning, a comfortable bed and Mickey Ds in your fridge is a spiritual experience bro …your digging down deep your inner essence and all your inner foundation to keep you going.


A regular dude who hasn’t been to the military I can tell you that much can experience that pain in the same scale …but not through the same quality and intangibilities ….but slowly, be it through a divorce and never seeing their kids for years, working many hours of a deadend job etc
 

Divorced w 3

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 20, 2022
Messages
3,793
Reaction score
2,442
Anything were your deprived physical comforts such as air conditioning, a comfortable bed and Mickey Ds in your fridge is a spiritual experience bro …your digging down deep your inner essence and all your inner foundation to keep you going.


A regular dude who hasn’t been to the military I can tell you that much can experience that pain in the same scale …but not through the same quality and intangibilities ….but slowly, be it through a divorce and never seeing their kids for years, working many hours of a deadend job etc
That’s an interesting perspective and thank you for your service, I just wonder if you had spent your career doing close combat capture / kill missions if you’d call it spiritual. I definitely relate at some level to the closeness of doing team based challenges and mutual suffering to overcome and improve things.
 

OngBak

Senior Don Juan
Joined
Dec 9, 2023
Messages
294
Reaction score
108
Age
27
Brotherhood rare? Im a retired Air Force Vet and I miss the camaraderie amongst the guys I was with, Bootcamp and tech school and deployments were some of the most spiritually freeing days of my life. Once you experience that type of bonding amongst your amigos, ya never want to go back and you yearn for it in your life always. I would put that type of experience a notch above winning a District Basketball championship my Sophomore year in High School. I still keep in contact with those guys. Stop chasing the pvssy and experience a harley ride with the dudes in an Arizona desert and go camping bonfire style and have fun bro. You’re only 26. Follow The Bro Code, don’t pedestelize women and don’t ever touch another dude’s girl who happens to be in a relationship. That’s dishonorable, creating unnecessary drama and reeks bad Karma and consequences. Low T people? manipulative people? It depends on what type of relationship those communications are based on, if it’s based on selfishness and fast gratification, then what do you expect? If that relationship is based on a higher power, have a greater purpose than obtaining pvssy like noble goals like helping out your community instead of self aggrandizement, you’d probably see that person in a much better light. It’s all about having that positive boundary out there. A Man may not be an mma or weight lifting partner to me, but he can definitely be getting a beer or a coffee at coffee shop to me. Those Philosophical discussions over a nice glass of brew to the sounds of George Strait playing in the background never gets old.


View attachment 14870
I was referring to things that are outside of pro masculine practices like in general workplaces, school, most of the social settings etc.
I personally experience Brothership only in the Gym and with the People who workout
 

jhonny9546

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 17, 2024
Messages
2,301
Reaction score
460
Location
Italy
You are defining a Narcissist, woman cant distinguish between genuine confidence and fake confidence, both make them tingle, both involve triggering emotions. Only that Narcissists affect woman's emotion even more, mostly negative and doing it constantly, naturally, severely unpredictable they are basically the game. The worst type tbh, because the only thing that helps with them is to either kill them (which happens even in reallife, People get sick of their bs) or remove your presence.


One of the reasons I'm not around much anymore is that this forum tries to solve the issue of getting women, but I'm well beyond that. There are many ways to get women and just as many with good moral alignment as bad, but again I see someone erroneously think that being a d!ck is the way.



The major flaw with that strategy is that it generally attracts a flavor of women who are broken. You'll get them, for sure, but in the end it will not be satisfying.



It's in my opinion raw and unrefined. I think of such guys as low level manipulators, I can see them from a mile away and so can most. The more naive will fall for it though and see positive even if it's a net negative given a broader context and understanding.



I want to note that hoe_math never really describes the form these traits may take, you can display all of them while still being perceived positively by most people if calibrated and used appropriately. I'm not saying he's wrong, he isn't, but it's very easy to misconstrue the form it might take and imagine something a lot more crude than what he intends.



So yeah, what you're imagining is indeed attractive to some subset of women, but very unlikely the type you'd want to keep around. Getting women isn't really that hard; getting the right type is magnitudes harder.
Great point, guys.
We're not focusing on solving the problem of getting women.
At least not in my case.
We're focusing on what makes men great.
And when men are strong and great, they get women.

It's a type of behavior, habits, ways of doing things, and of living.
It's a combination of things.

It starts from when we wake up to when we go to sleep at night. We have to do the "right" things. The things a man should do.
The video creator has an excellent vision of how women see men; I think he explains it really well. (The secret and the public.)

It's basically a short term strategy for massive gain.
And look like this short term strategy, become long term when those women invest in these kinds of men.
Also if you have them as friends. Same thing.



Before the 4th industrial age, all the narcissism traits you mentioned would've gotten you killed in your sleep.
The capitalism makes narcissists and psychophats win. They have it easier in this era.



The truth of the matter is you should stop basing your identity on women, stop trying to attract the wrong kind of women and attract the right kind of women that are righteous, modest, chaste and would make for a quality relationship, rather than a worldly h0 most clueless Men are trying to pin down. Stop basing your identity on women or external validation and instead base it on a higher power, your purpose that leads to the enhancement of your community around you, your brotherhood amongst other Men that are good company, fun and enhances your life, but most of all seek gratitude and be thankful for things that is currently happening to you and live contently until a quality woman notices your overall contentment and can't help but to join in.
Wrong assumptions and those more chaste women will go for the manipulator, since this man have all the traits they need, except for being too nice. This is why chaste women go for them, when they have several good men around. But those good men may lack the secret qualities a woman wants in a man.

She is the kind of woman you want in your life.
Your reasoning makes sense. I can follow the thread.
But how many "right" women, "of the right" type, have you seen go with the "wrong" man?
It's not about focusing on the woman, but more on the inner game of what we need to become.
But we need to know what women like, what makes us better men than these manipulative narcissists.

Speaking only for myself
My experience is actually similar. Bad parents.
Understand you!
 
Top