Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Avoiding flakes/canceling from happening

Glassguy

Moderator
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
4,663
Reaction score
8,553
Age
46
Let me start by saying this: You will probably never totally eliminate women flaking or canceling on you for many different reasons. But you can certainly cut the amount of times this happens to a very low percentage.

Since this could become a really long topic I will try to minimize it with what I think are the most simple and effective ways to lower your flake/cancels.

First you have to understand that flakes/canceling happens for very specific reasons:

1.) She has low interest or you pushed her into agreeing to the date so she didnt have to tell you "no". This is by far what I believe to be the reason for most flakes/cancels. Very self explanatory. You will normally just get a "Sorry cant make it" text with no more details. Thats ok, just respond back "OK" and be done with it. Consider she did you a favor. No longer are you going to sit there spending $30-$50 on some drinks and appetizers while she fantasizes about the dude she really wants to bang.

2.) She got a better offer (in her eyes). In today's dating game most women are talking to many different guys. Since they love attention they will set up a date with a guy knowing that if the guy they are more attracted to, for whatever reason, offers to do something with her during that same time she will cancel on you. It is what it is and not much you can do about it. There are definitely more attractive guys than me, wealthier guys than me, etc. Same as above- you handle it with an "OK" and move on.

3.) Something truly came up. It happens. People get sick. People sometimes get called into work. Whatever it may be you will at least almost always get a legitimate explanation if this is the case. And she will almost always give her availability for you to reschedule (big red flag if she doesnt). You simply say "OK" and if she reaches out and offers another date, you can decide if that works for you.

So how do you minimize these things from happening? I will try to keep it short and I can later go into more detail about each one if asked to do so. Remember, this is what I do and what works for ME. Does it always work? No. Does it work most of the time? Yes.

1.) Screening: I am very picky about who I choose to go out with as I still date a couple of plates and have limited time to add more to the rotation. If its obvious through some texts/calls that we really dont have much in common or there isnt a decent vibe, I dont ask them out. I just move on. If you arent feeling it, she probably isnt either.

2.) Dont let her screen you out: A woman's natural tendency is to find ways to disqualify you. Read that again. Everything you say is either ammo to build her interest or lower it. You build it by telling her all the great things about you, but by saying just enough to sound interesting, witty, adventurous and fun. Tell her just enough to know a tiny bit more about you when she asks you questins, etc. You kill it by saying things that might be on her list of things that are instant disqualification on her list of things she wont deal with in a sexual partner.
Some things that I reveal early on: I own a business but I dont go into detail. I have numerous hobbies- golf, boating, etc. I have a lot of friends. All of these things are taken positively with any woman. I have never had a woman say "Sorry, I dont date guys that own their own businesses'. Or "Sorry, I dont date guys that are active". That would be silly.

But you can say things that will cross you off based on what she is looking for.

Examples:

She asks "what are you looking for?". Very common. You can say "Looking for something casual" or "looking for a serious relationship". The problem is this: If you say you are looking for something casual, she may disqualify you because she is at least open to casual dating as long as there is a possibility of it becoming a more serious thing and she doesnt want to waste time with someone just wanting to hook up and vise versa. So you want your answer to appeal to the masses.

Learn to give answers that jump her questions. "What are you looking for?"- "I am just enjoying the single life and not in any rush for something serious but open to that happening with the right person". I just checked both boxes on her list.

She may be religious (but they still love to fvck too) and she asks "Do you drink?". My answer is always "I enjoy a cold beer every now and then but I try to not get too crazy ;)". Again, its a middle of the road answer.

And answers like this reveal a little about you but you still remain a mystery. That is the key.

Most guys screen themselves out by doing one of several things:

1.) They over text and they reveal way too much information about themselves. I like some communication but once the date is set I typically only respond back to when she reaches out.

2.) They are way too available through text. This shows they have no life and if they are always available, the chick thinks there must be something wrong with them.

3.) They show desperate and needy behavior instead of responding indifferently to her texts. This is a date killer and will cause instant flakes.

I am the product that sells itself on a date. Once I get a chick out, it is really rare that she isnt asking "when can I see you again" after the first date. I can (and have) however do things to kill her attraction/interest by doing the above things. So I like to remain a mystery after the date is set and I continue that through the dating process. They find out a little about me at a time. So they have to keep coming back to find out more. Does that make sense? Give them crumbs.

A starving cat will hunt harder than one that has its belly full.

So now that I have told you reasons why you are potentially disqualifying yourself through the 3 things above, you must realize how this turns into a flake:

A woman will not come out and say "I dont think we are a good match". Instead she will just not show up for the date or cancel last minute. The reason why women do this is because they avoid confrontation and its just easier for them compared to telling you the truth and then dealing with a barrage of questions as to why she feels that way.

So you need to realize why they flake and also realize things you can do to prevent it.

1.) Remain mysterious. Give as little information as possible when she asks questions. Do not act like you're hiding something bad, just give vague answers that cover the masses.
2.) Do NOT be available all of the time. You should have purpose, a life, career, hobbies, OTHER WOMEN, etc. If you dont, at least act like you do.
3.) Learn to give vague answers to her questions.

So now that I have talked about how to avoid her from disqualifying you, lets talk about when I disqualify a woman. This is even more important because I do not want to waste my time.

So you have the date set (and I recommend always setting a date within 3-4 days of inviting them out with you...a week or more out really raises the flake % for various reasons we can discuss later) so what do you need to look for?

1.) I look for lack of interest responses. "ok lol", "we'll see", etc is garbage. I will instantly stop responding and see if she reaches back out. An interested woman will ask YOU questions through text because she is interested. Handle her questions as I already discussed above.
2.) Phone call: I always call a chick the day before the date. ALWAYS. Especially if its OLD, someone I started chatting with on social media, etc. I do this for a very specific reason: For one to see if she answers and secondly, to see if there is decent convo. I limit it to about 5 minutes and then break off the call. I typically tell them (if I have never met them in real life) that I wanted to make sure they arent "some old man living in the basement screwing with people on the internet eating cheetos: before we meet up. Its light and witty and also signals that I wanted to screen them before I invest some of my busy schedule to meeting them for a drink.

If the chick doesnt answer but texts back instantly and says "whats up?" I just tell them to give me a quick call back when they are free. If she doesnt call back, I dip.
If she does call back and seems boring as shyte I will probably cancel the date (unless she is smoking hot).

As long as she is matching interested effort and sounds promising on the phone, I will go ahead with the date.

I cannot tell you how many women I have stopped responding to because they just showed a lack of interest. Sure they would text and respond back like clockwork. But they didnt show too much promise in their enthusiasm. Some reach back out (and normally with much more enthusiasm the second time around) and some dont. Its ok either way.

I could go into an entire thread about women that respond back to date offers with "We'll see", "Ok lol", "I'll let you know". But I am not going to waste time on those as they are instant dismissals for me. I dont even withdraw the offer. I just give no response back to that garbage. And of course those that reach back out after I have disappeared normally put a little more effort into it the second time around.

Hopefully this helps a little.

@Amante Silvestre and others can feel free to add to this. Like I said, this is what I do and it works well for me. I think I've had 3 flakes/cancels in the last year but based on how many dates I go on, its a super small percentage. And even then I had a backup and didnt spend my time sulking about some chick that canceled. I just hung out with someone else.

Happy Hunting.
 

nicksaiz65

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
3,716
Reaction score
1,470
Age
27
Y'all are like geniuses on this topic. Thanks for writing this up so quickly @Glassguy
and I agree with pretty much all of your points @Amante Silvestre .

Can you tell me more about how you screen Glassguy? Like when you don't sense any comparability you don't ask her out. Is that like a Demographics thing for you? I'm testing how this works with my own game.

Like for example I'm more of a nerd than a party type, but I don't wanna only limit myself to nerdy girls you know? Am I wasting my time asking out those party girls(flakes) or does it just depend if I can hold a good conversation/vibe before I ask her out?
 

sangheilios

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 25, 2018
Messages
2,589
Reaction score
2,632
Age
34
I think flaking is far more common with OLD than it is with someone you met in a normal in person setting. I also feel that this is somewhat common from numbers you get at a bar, I'm not basing this just off of personal experience but from observations as well.

Women today are just flaky in general, mostly due to just how many men they have as options. You also need to realize that women, like men, may have other stuff going on in their life that have nothing to do with dating. Do you think you'd be a priority if she is in the middle of finishing up her nursing degree or insert whatever life event when she doesn't even know you? Of course not.

With that said, I've had women ask ME out and proceed to flake on me out of the blue on a scheduled date and then ghost. Women may do this due to having tons of options, wanting to lead men on or perhaps it's just the game they play to put themselves in a position of power.

I've personally found that at the first sign of a flake it's better to just delete the number. On a side note, this is just the way women operate now and chances are they aren't all that into you in the first place.
 

RangerMIke

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
4,591
Reaction score
7,462
Location
USA, Louisiana
2.) Dont let her screen you out: A woman's natural tendency is to find ways to disqualify you.
Women are programmed to filter men OUT: men are programmed to get as many women as we can.

This is why women who sleep around a lot have a bad reputation: men who sleep around a lot are considered great. If a chick has a high number count... well, she does a sh!tty job of screening out men. A man that doesn't sleep around a lot... well, they do a sh!tty job of getting women. It's all about if you are filling your proper gender role.

The more you do, the greater the chance you get filtered out.... but if you don't do anything, you're never in the game. It's a balance, but I really don't worry about women screening me out. If it isn't meant to be, it is what it is.
 

Glassguy

Moderator
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
4,663
Reaction score
8,553
Age
46
Women are programmed to filter men OUT: men are programmed to get as many women as we can.

This is why women who sleep around a lot have a bad reputation: men who sleep around a lot are considered great. If a chick has a high number count... well, she does a sh!tty job of screening out men. A man that doesn't sleep around a lot... well, they do a sh!tty job of getting women. It's all about if you are filling your proper gender role.

The more you do, the greater the chance you get filtered out.... but if you don't do anything, you're never in the game. It's a balance, but I really don't worry about women screening me out. If it isn't meant to be, it is what it is.
While I totally agree with you, we are talking about the average guy here and not RangerMIke, Amante, etc.

We understand that balance between being in the game and not giving too much information to be filtered out. Most guys on here seem to not be in that position. Therefore, for the average guy, its far better for them to make moves, show intent and be in the game but also give a woman as little ammo as possible when she is trying to filter him out. Less is more so to speak. Seeing how many guys over talk women right out of dates, its better for most guys on here to be even more of a mystery until they find that balance.
 
Last edited:

Glassguy

Moderator
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
4,663
Reaction score
8,553
Age
46
Can you tell me more about how you screen Glassguy?
My screening in a nutshell is this (obviously attraction to some point has been established if I am messaging her):

1.) Her career 2.) Her education 3.) Does she have hobbies 4.) Does she have a social circle 5.) Does she seem enthusiastic when I respond or give one or two word answers? 6.) Does SHE seem needy/clingy?

I think that is the bulk of my initial screening to move past finding her attractive and setting up a date. Think about this: if she fails at 1, 2, 3 and 4, where is she going to get that from if I end up dating her exclusively? Me. And I am not out there to carry chicks in those areas. I am out there to enjoy things together if things get that far. Not to be someones financial and social means.

I dont want to date someone too clingy. If she is showing that now BEFORE a date, what do you think its going to be like in 3 months?

If I have to do most of the talking, they're out.
If they don't respond enthusiastically to my sense of humor, they're out.
If I feel they are too picky, they're out.
If they talk too much about how life, men, whatever sucks, they're out.

Initial interactions have to be easy, fun and dynamic. There has to be some humor bounced around, not just on my part, but on hers as well. Even deeper conversations are good in moderation, so long as they reveal worthwhile commonalities and interests.
I also agree with this. The vibe is very important. Am I looking forward to the date? Is she looking forward to the date? Nobody wants to be going on a date just to burn daylight and feed a chick. There has to be some good vibe or positive connection or they are disqualified.
The first is abundance. A man should know what his demand is
Another good point to screening. What is your value? What is your SMV?

Look at how many options you have right now. Then honestly evaluate their looks, personality, career, financial means to support themselves, etc. That is your value. The hottest girl you are taking out in public is determining your SMV for the most part.

The more options you have, the more picky you can be. Which means you should screen harder.

If you have very few option or they look like hell, you need to focus on yourself and what you are doing and the image they are seeing of you.

Which is also in turn why a lot of women do flake. They have so many options, how are you separating yourself from the pack? The key is not being a try hard and selling yourself. If there is value, she will see it with out a used car salesman approach. Indifference is always better than going all in with one chick. Keep them on their toes. You will never have better ammo than an abundance mindset with several options of high value and attractive women.

They are doing the selling for you in terms of adding more women of the same OR HIGHER value than you currently have.

Good points @Amante Silvestre
 

RangerMIke

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
4,591
Reaction score
7,462
Location
USA, Louisiana
While I totally agree with you, we are talking about the average guy here and not RangerMIke, Amante, etc.
Fair enough. 30 plus years of experience does help. There is some truth in the statement "fake it till you make it." Everything is about practice.... practice.... practice.... practice.

It takes a lot of attempts before you are hitting more than half your free throws, and even the pros still only hit 80%.
 

Glassguy

Moderator
Joined
Apr 25, 2016
Messages
4,663
Reaction score
8,553
Age
46
Fair enough. 30 plus years of experience does help. There is some truth in the statement "fake it till you make it." Everything is about practice.... practice.... practice.... practice.
The idea is to be the type of person that doesnt have to fake it. The perception you give is also reality. It also takes a lot of work to get there which screens most people out. They want the magic line to say to a woman and fail to realize that self improvement leads to a better version of yourself (and is the best selling tool of yourself).

But these chicks cant see your day to day lifestyle early on, so instead of being the always available and boring dude with no value, its better to create the perception that you at least have a social life, career, ambition and options. But sooner or later she is going to figure the guy out that is faking it as she is around him more.

So if guys are not on their self improvement purpose, its best that they get on that train asap.

You can either fake it till you make it or eventually you will get caught faking it. You had a good post about how it is harder to KEEP a chick around compared to getting her to begin with. I totally agree with that. I think this is one of the reasons for it. There are too many posers out there faking it with no intentions of making it. JMO.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,772
Reaction score
8,754
Age
34
My screening is all testing. I don’t worry about compatibility with any woman I have not yet slept with.

1) does she show up on dates?

2) post 2nd date, does she offer to pay? Does she offer to treat me to a date?

3) does she try to take control of the plans (automatic fail)? Does she accept even if it’s not her forte?

4) How long did it take for her to respond and comply with date plans? (Longer than 24 hours - automatic fail)

5) If she can’t make it, is there a counter offer? (No counter is automatic fail)

6) Does she kiss me or turn her cheek? (1st date mulligan, 2nd date automatic fail)

Everything is a test until I have sex with her. You guys analyze the deep shvt too early. Priority number one is if she is even worth your time.
 

Georgepithyou

Banned
Joined
Jan 17, 2020
Messages
1,799
Reaction score
2,226
Age
27
Location
Sydney
Men are disposable on OLD where women have a huge abundance of thirsty guys hitting them up, the flake rate is much lower if you met thr girl through social circle.

That way you have built some comfort and you are not some stranger.
 

Visionist

Master Don Juan
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
864
Reaction score
912
Age
35
Some will frown upon it, but after setting the time and place of the meeting (and both are yours to choose and hers to comply with), ignore her till a couple hours before the meeting and just text her "see you at (insert time of meeting)".

If she replies, show up for the meeting. If she doesn't, don't bother. Saves you a lot of time and effort. She may show up anyway and be pissed about you flaking on her, but that's her fault.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,772
Reaction score
8,754
Age
34
Some will frown upon it, but after setting the time and place of the meeting (and both are yours to choose and hers to comply with), ignore her till a couple hours before the meeting and just text her "see you at (insert time of meeting)".

If she replies, show up for the meeting. If she doesn't, don't bother. Saves you a lot of time and effort. She may show up anyway and be pissed about you flaking on her, but that's her fault.
Nope, you're destroying another test by texting her. Let it ride. There are five possible outcomes in order of best to worst:

A) She shows up with no text to confirm (This is rare, happens about 5% of the time. Confident, business minded professional women do this. She values both her time and your time. More importantly, she respects your word)

B) She texts you before the date to confirm. (the date is important to her. She’s serious about meeting)

For no shoes, I text “are you close by?” 5-10 minutes after date time:

C) No show, offers reschedule (interest level is moderate, self-esteem is low. She’s used to men letting her down. Did not show because you didn’t “check-in” with her. Goes to the back of the line.)

D) No show, no reschedule but responds. (Low interest level. “Forgot.” Was never serious about meeting)

E) No show, no response. (No interest at all. Pathological liar. She stands up men for amusement. The minute she made the date she knew she wasn’t coming)

Again, you must expect flakes and blow offs. I remedy this by never doing Singleton first dates. Always double or triple book. Its normal for me to book up to five dates in one evening for two time slots, only going with the first ladies that confirm.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,772
Reaction score
8,754
Age
34
And just to clarify, all those rules and tests are mainly applicable to first dates. I’d estimate my 2nd date and onward flake rate to be less than 10%. The reason should be obvious to the experience dater:

If you bombed the first date, you will find it exceedingly difficult to even get her to agree to see you again. She will be evasive in many ways. She either won’t answer, or she won’t give definitive answers to going out again. Women help you when they like you.

The flake phenomenon is mostly a first date thing.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,772
Reaction score
8,754
Age
34
For me, she isn’t even worth testing until we have sex.
Testing in this context simply means evaluation of her interest level. I’m doing that from the first correspondence.

I can determine if a woman is worth my time long before I’m in a situation where there is a dinner bill in front of me and I’m wondering if she’s going to reach for her purse or if I’m paying.

When I get to that actual position with a woman, it won’t matter. I’ll have no issues paying because I already k ow she’s worth my time, and she will have no problem paying because she knows I’m worth hers.

I’ve never paid a bill that I HAD to pay because a woman failed some test. Ever.
A man who offers a date shall pay. You misinterpreted observing if she offers as an expectation that she should pay. On the contrary. I appreciate and decline her offer, take a mental note, then encourage her to ask me out on a future date if she wants to pay.

Eliminating wasteful fodder, probing for a good vibe and saving my efforts for the cream of the crop is not what I would call “deep sh*t”.

It’s just taking out the garbage so you spend much less time

1. Wondering if she’s going to show up
2.Wondering if she’s going to pay the bill, etc.
Exactly.
Women are entertainment for me. I enjoy their company. I enjoy having sex with them. I successfully bed enough new women per year to have fun with the game. That’s why all the psychoanalysis isn’t necessary.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,772
Reaction score
8,754
Age
34
You say you have a “flake rate” of less than 10% after the first date. I assume it’s higher than that on the first.

Mine is zero. I cannot remember the last time a woman flaked on me on a first date. It’s been years. I attribute this entirely to early elimination, to knowing where to invest my time without any guessing. There are 100 other things I’d rather explore. I want efficiency with women.
Flakes are inevitable in online dating. A zero flake rate suggests extremely small sample size. My system seeks to save time in the long run, rather than be preoccupied chasing mythical percentages. I don’t bother with phone calls or rapport building, as they are a waste of time prior to evaluating physical chemistry.

The question for the gents out there is would you rather go 10/10, bedding 10 women or go 25/50, bedding 25?

My estimated flake rate is approximately 50% on first dates. Some days I’m 5/5, telling 3 of them to reschedule or kick rocks. Some days I’m 1/5. Just the nature of the beast.
 

SoSuave666

Master Don Juan
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
1,130
Reaction score
874
That has not been my experience.




2-3 dates per week for nearly 2 years.
I would not say I have a zero flake rate. But I try to do roughly the same amount (2-3 dates per week) when I don’t have a rotation of 3 girls. I would say I’m about 10% flake at most. It does happen, but typically when a woman makes a plan with me she sticks to it. And that’s because the frame I set when we chat is not one of goofy silly memes and emojis and texts. It’s one of flirtatious intent, masculinity, and directness. Women who are into you will respond to that very well and almost never flake. The ones that do flake also almost always try and offer a new time. I’d say I’m very close to 0% with girls who set plans and I just never hear from them again.
 

EyeOnThePrize

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jun 9, 2019
Messages
1,126
Reaction score
1,828
Age
33
Every man has the sense to tell if a woman will be a fun date or not. Some men don't trust this sense and operate against it out of that doubt. Eventually they forget how to leverage the sense altogether. These are the cucks.

True men listen to that sense intently and protect the ability to listen to it.

Listen to your soul. If you're on a good trajectory in life you'll look at every girl and think "i can do better than that, but if she's fun maybe she can entertain me for now"

If life is stagnant or unfulfilling you'll see every girl as a goddess and act like a beggar around them. This is feedback telling you to introspect and resolve inner conflict, to work on your personal endeavours relentlessly and forget about women for the time being.
 

mrgoodstuff

Master Don Juan
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
17,936
Reaction score
12,147
Location
DFW, TX
Every man has the sense to tell if a woman will be a fun date or not. Some men don't trust this sense and operate against it out of that doubt. Eventually they forget how to leverage the sense altogether. These are the cucks.

True men listen to that sense intently and protect the ability to listen to it.

Listen to your soul. If you're on a good trajectory in life you'll look at every girl and think "i can do better than that, but if she's fun maybe she can entertain me for now"

If life is stagnant or unfulfilling you'll see every girl as a goddess and act like a beggar around them. This is feedback telling you to introspect and resolve inner conflict, to work on your personal endeavours relentlessly and forget about women for the time being.
Some of em are fun cause they like you
 
Top