Atkins Diet

[StevenR]

This is like people discussing different economic theories, and which one works best.

 

[Quiksilver]

Hey, I'll have salami once in a blue moon, a little is okay, but not a steady diet of it. But you can go ahead and eat all the saturated fats you want and take the risk that the conventional wisdom is wrong.

Hey, Mr. Me, try something like this:

1. Go take blood test
2. Eat a "sensible" high fat diet for 3-6 months
3. Retake blood test

By sensible I do not mean the approach atkins took, eating burgers, bacon and other processed meats all day, which are loaded with hydrogenated oils and potentially transfats.

By sensible I mean eat meats that have more or less been in the human diet for hundreds of thousands of years. Fill yourself up on red meats and eggs then top yourself up on veggies. Balance your fats intake with mono's(EV olive oil) and EFAs(fish oils).

--

I'd be interested to see the controlled studies you presumably know of that indicate clearly that saturated fats/animal fats cause heart disease.

I find it amusing that people think the human body that has been eating animals for over a million years would have a problem dealing with animal fats. Obesity, heart disease, diabetes have all sprung up in the last 50-60 years, while the consumption of animal fats has been present for 1,200,000 years. Or do you think that cavemen were careful to trim the fats of the meat before they ate it?

I'll concede that the quality of fats these days has diminished, that's why we have to supplement fish oil and olive oil. Meats of old were from animals that ranged far and wide over the country eating grasses, meaning they had a high omega-3 content, so eating animal fats ALSO entailed that you'd be eating your share of EFAs too. These days most livestock is fed corn/grains which means that the meat from these animals provides little if any omega 3, and is choke full of omega 6. Again, which is why someone consuming a high fat diet today should take a care to balance their fats between saturated/mono/omega 3/6.

This "covering my ears screaming into the wind" insistence that fats/oils are bad for us is dangerous in itself and terrible advice like that is what's leading to the diabetes epidemic, where sedentary people are afraid of fats and consume a diet very high in carbs.

Mr. Me, most of the stuff you wrote is pretty accurate and quite smart, but making blanket statements like "fats/oils = bad" is an uneducated viewpoint and it'd be cool if you'd spend an hour or so and learn a little about dietary fats.

hope that clears things up a little.. Again I'd be interested to know what evidence you have that saturated/animal fats are bad.

 

[StevenR]

Discussing this is like discussing different economic theories. I appreciate everyone sharing their opinion and I respect it even if I don't agree with all of it.
Atkins seems to be working for me so far, I have lost a few pounds since friday and am not starving myself, and since I started it I am going to stick with it for now, and add in workouts so I don't lose muscle. When I get to the weight range where I am just a little overweight and not a lot overweight I will start to eat a more balanced diet. If you need a calorie surplus to build muscle, I think I will like that part of it better.

 

[Throttle]

economists agree on the fundamental concepts. we don't even have that luxury in nutrition.

 

[StevenR]

Going into week 2 of an extremely low carb diet, and am having second thoughts about it. There are days when I feel lethargic and not doing much. The other strange thing that has happened is that I have almost completely lost my sex drive. I no longer care about women that much, and half the reason I am doing this is to be able to attract hotter women. Anyone else who has tried a low carb diet, fewer than 20g carbs, and lost their sex drive?

 

[Quiksilver]

Post up your full diet dude. Everything that went into your mouth in the past 72 hours.

 

[StevenR]

Okay, hopefully I can remember exactly-
Day 1
Breakfast-Bacon and cheese omlette

Lunch-Hard broiled egg, slices of salami and pepperoni with mozeralla and monterey jack cheese

Dinner- Salad greens with a little mozeralla and grated parmesan, a couple slices of pepperoni, a broken up hard boiled egg, red vinegar and olive oil for dressing
Main course-a slice of steak topped with this delicious cream sauce/mushrooms that I made, with a little cooking wine to taste(hopefully that is okay in a low carb diet). side of grilled asparagus.
Snack-some more salami/pep slices with cheese, hard boiled egg

Day 2-
Breakfast hard boiled egg(I know, but I was in a hurry)
Lunch-roast beef and melted jack cheese, some slices of pepperoni
Dinner-same salad as before, main course was 3 lamb chops and a side of grilled asparagus
Snack- same as day one, except deviled eggs instead of just hard boiled egg

Yesterday-
Breakfast-Uncured Bacon, Egg, Cheese omlette
Lunch- roast beef with melted jack and cheddar cheese, hard boiled egg
Dinner- No salad, didn't feel like making it and wasn't all that hungry, had the other two lamb steaks and a side of grilled asparagus, I also had the lamb with a little mustard(but no sugar in mustard).
Snack-sardines(I am weird, I actually like the things) with mozerella and jack cheese, also a few slices of pepperoni
Today-
So far bacon and eggs for breakfast, didn't feel like eating lunch
All three days I have also been drinking one cup of coffee, Atkins doesn't recommend it but I will give up everything except coffee, I was really feeling like crap for the few days I was off coffee. I have also started drinking yerba mate to try to slowly wean myself off of all the coffee I normally drink. I don't know the exact calorie content of all that I ate, but I did keep it under 20grams of carbs on all days.

 

[Throttle]

caffeine screws with your insulin levels, that's why Atkins wants you off it.

meanwhile, on coping with carb withdrawal: http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/lowcarb101/a/firstweek.htm

this is definitely not the time to worry about your sex drive. sheesh. give it a few weeks. nothing raises your sex drive quite like eliminating body fat and feeling better about yourself (though downing whole steaks & lifting heavy weights are a close 2nd & 3rd in my book).

 

[Quiksilver]

Hey Throttle, if caffeine screws with insulin levels then should I be concerned if I take in 1L+ green tea every day? Right now I'm at 1.25L daily of the stuff. Steeped all night and chilled in the fridge, so it's more potent than normal.

 

[Throttle]

ok, i'm in the realm of rampant speculation here, but with green tea, i'm inclined to say you're fine. the polyphenols etc etc regulate the rate at which caffeine hits your system.

coffee (which StevenR mentioned) has a variety of polyphenols & other substances, but the net effect by my reading is to spike your insulin harder than the caffeine would alone. soda & energy drinks, even diet ones, simply whack you with straight caffeine.

so my recommendation is that anyone who needs caffeine (I'm one of them) should switch over as much as possible to green tea, or black tea if you can't stand the green stuff. Quik, i'd have no concerns about your regimen.

bottom-line: all the big guys here swear by green tea. for reasons that quite frankly no one fully understands, its effect on insulin seem to be a strong net positive, caffeine or not.

 

[mrRuckus]

The caffeine from green tea isn't absorbed or utilized or whatever it is in same rate/amounts/whatever as caffeine is from other sources.

I forget why.

Google it.

 

[bigjohnson]

By sensible I do not mean the approach atkins took, eating burgers, bacon and other processed meats all day, which are loaded with hydrogenated oils and potentially transfats.

Have you actually READ the Atkins book? This sounds like someone described the Atkins diet 4th hand to you (eat a lot of beef, hurhurhur) and you are judging THAT diet. Atkins promotes lots of low carb vegetables with proteins and fats, not gorging on bacon.

I suppose one COULD go crazy with SPAM or something on Atkins but it's surely not REQUIRED.



Kudos to the original poster for actually reading the book.

He might consider more sensible fat and protein source than processed meats though.

 

[simon]

Think that's due to the theanine counteracting the stimulatory effects of the caffeine.

 

[JohnnyIrish]

Going into week 2 of an extremely low carb diet, and am having second thoughts about it. There are days when I feel lethargic and not doing much. The other strange thing that has happened is that I have almost completely lost my sex drive. I no longer care about women that much, and half the reason I am doing this is to be able to attract hotter women. Anyone else who has tried a low carb diet, fewer than 20g carbs, and lost their sex drive?

I've been through this with the anabolic diet (similar as the first 2 weeks you eat less then 20g carbs/day). I felt like ****.. no energy for the gym or anything really.. much less sex. It took a bit longer for me but around the 3rd week or so in my body switched and my energy levels evened out again.

Basically you have to teach your body to use fat as fuel when its use to using carbs.. keep feeding it fat and depriving it of carbs and eventually it'll adapt and you'll feel better.

 

[JohnnyIrish]

Oh and one thing steven.. when going through the transition you should NEVER feel hungry (if you do.. EAT!). You need to make sure your eating enough (High fats and protein).

Also I see you eat roughly 3 meals/day. Ideally you should bump that up to 5-7 so your metabolizm has less of a rollercoaster of nutrient flow to deal with.

Just my 2 cents.