ASF vs. Don Juan

[undesputable]

i think this site has offered everything you need to know to get women, and you get good by practicing, not by going looking to every site that offers dating advice, and expect to be good when you finally have the balls to talk and approach a women....

many guys who are extrmely well with women are either naturals or have learned by trial and error....

so who cares if don juan forum is better than ASF, or ASF is better than don juan....

 

[JT47319]

Originally posted by KC_Seductive
Also, where do you think the term "sarge" came from?

It goes beyond field reports. There is no way you could read all of the SS posts there.
Go to the mASF archive and do a search on the following subjects:
(Be sure to set the results per page on 100 and check the top box to search all archives)

• 
  Patterns
  Ross
  speed
  seduction
  sarge
  SS

There are more search words, but that should be sufficient.
After you view the "massive collection of SS posts" that exists, I suggest you then do a search on the authors.

Here is a list of the latest FR/LRs. Almost NONE of them incorporate ANY SS. And while the term sarge is a holdover from when SS was dominate, the theory has little sway over all active players.

Do they show up still? Sure, but more like a floating piece of wood that pops up now and then. Peruse the FR/LR/ORs. 99% of them are based on field tested and practiced styles.

Do a search on Patterns at mASF and you get 201 messages over the past few years. Do a seach on Patterns on Don Juan and you have 574 threads. Does that mean DJ is dominated by Ross Jeffries and crew? No, it just means DJs lean towards RJ's SS more so than the PUAs on ASF.


Hannibal82 becomes a Mall Hazard! 7/1/04 (4)
FR: Solo sarging-OWNING the party, dancefloor game 7/1/04 (2, 1 New)
OR: Approaching HBcutie 6/30/04 (3)
OR: My notes & Fieldwork 6/29/04 (9, 1 New)
LR: Extraction resistance, no LMR 6/29/04 (6)
Chat report... man what do i do wrong ? 6/30/04 (2)
LR: Extreme AMOG destroying 6/29/04 (6)
FR: When Wings Go Wrong 6/29/04 (4)
FR: #close HB9+ Classy Jailbird @ Court House, C&F 6/29/04 (5)
OR: London Part1 6/28/04 (3)
2 Pornstar Style# close 6/28/04 (2)
LR: GroupSex!..7people!! 6/28/04 (8)
FR: Grandma-destroyer 6/28/04 (2)
OR: Return of the kicked out SD hos 6/28/04 (5)
FR: Slugs ****ED week (Slug) 6/28/04
FR: Phone Games 6/28/04 (3)
FR++ at the movies 6/28/04 (2)
FR:newbie‘s night at teen club. what an experience 6/28/04 (6)
FR : USED As A Nightclub Sex Toy 6/28/04 (6)
FR-: why dont you just tell me i exude sex? 6/27/04 (2)
FR : HBMidWest tonguedown 6/27/04 (2)
FR: Ice skating 6/27/04 (7)
FR: Little boy games big girls 6/27/04 (6)
FR: Fri at club 6/27/04 (3)
ijjjji´s method is GOLD(long) 6/27/04 (3)
FR: HB10 on Wed night @ Hip-Hop Club - Part II (xmlenigma) 6/27/04
FR+: HBTongueStud, HBSexKitten, HBCrazyChinese 6/27/04 (5)
FR+ caught a 10 6/27/04 (5)
FR+ shoe store (FireBoy) 6/27/04
FR: club open success, plus NEW MONEY OPENER 6/27/04 (4)[

 

[KC_Seductive]

Originally posted by JT47319
Here is a list of the latest FR/LRs. Almost NONE of them incorporate ANY SS. And while the term sarge is a holdover from when SS was dominate, the theory has little sway over all active players.

Do a search on Patterns at mASF and you get 201 messages over the past few years. Do a seach on Patterns on Don Juan and you have 574 threads.

You obviously made a mistake somewhere, because on a search for Patterns at mASF, I got 928 messages.

....But if that isn't enough for you, then
do a search on Pattern at mASF and you get a whopping (You also get a whipping...) 2,695 messages.


..Of course you could always do a search on Ross at mASF. By doing so, you will get 6,241 messages.

Do a search on SS at mASF and you get 30,045 messages which unfortunately includes any message with ss in a word. But if you desire to go through that many posts to find the SS posts that pertain to Speed Seduction, by all means go for it. There are many.

http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi

Be sure to check the "search all archives" box.

Also, there are other SS related words.

No, it just means DJs lean towards RJ's SS more so than the PUAs on ASF.

You are wrong again. How many recent SS related topics do you see here?

Plus, that was back when there was an 'Unusual Techniques' section here. And even then the SS threads here were few and far between when compared to the other topics.

 

[JT47319]

Originally posted by KC_Seductive
You obviously made a mistake somewhere, because on a search for Patterns at mASF, I got 928 messages.

You're obfuscating. SS, Ross, and Pattern are too vague a term. The most SS specific term would be Patterns.

If you search through ALL the archives, yes, you get that 900. But that's because the mASF archives go back YEARS to 1996. The earliest DJ "Patterns" thread is dated 2001. At the mASF archive under the same search parameters, you still get ~400. Closer to the DJ number, but still under.

That's FIVE YEARS of ADDITIONAL archives than DJ has. Since it ain't comparing apples to apples unless you look at SPECIFICALLY the time frame that BOTH forums have archived. Since then, SS has severely fallen into disuse.

But again, read those FRs. Very little to no SS techniques are utilized.

 

[MindOverMatter]

who cares what website is better, use both and use whatever works for you. why limit yourself to one site.

 

[KC_Seductive]

Originally posted by JT47319
You're obfuscating. SS, Ross, and Pattern are too vague a term. The most SS specific term would be Patterns.

No, I'm not. In fact, I distinctly stated that was the case for the term SS.
SS poems, SS list, etc. would be better.
Can't agree with you about Ross. But if you prefer, try Jeffries (1727)
Pattern is no more vague than patterns. You will find the "new pattern" "connection pattern" etc. Even if you simply do a search for patterns (Even without searching all the archives, you would find 659...not 201.

But again, there are a lot of other SS terms you can use.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this. Because I was interested in SS, it is only reasonable that I would come across more info than someone isn't interested.


I was set to return my BHSC for a refund until I heard Ross silence an obnoxious L.A. radio talk show host with an embedded command. Soon afterward, I used that very same command with success on an HB who had a habit of interrupting people. I noticed the effects and reactions I was getting and I was just a newbie. It takes time and practice, but it works for me.

I've always done alright with women, but I have had a lot more success incorporating SS into my game. I combine SS with other techniques discussed on ASF, just as several PUAs do. BTW, SS is not just about patterns.

 

[Player_Supreme]

KC seductive: Good posts on page 2 here. Your useage of facts and figures is on point. It goes to show readers that you can't believe anybodies facts or figures just cause they put em up!

And your right who cares. Use whatever works for you. For me personally I enjoy the mentality over there vs over here. I don't see the negative type of posts that I see on the main page here.

I think this site should only allow tactics and field reports for a while to get rid of the type of males who use this site as a emotional crutch for how bad their lives are.

Who cares if :

Another mistake

Why do girls lie about their sexual past, and why does it hurt me to find out?


Is there something wrong with me?

Cant believe she said this to my face...

I think I hit rock bottom today

She was rude and disrespectful

Girls asking me stupid questions

HB says I want to call you Christopher rather than Chris

Should I kiss this one good-bye?

What is wrong with me!

****************

I mean this is what this site has come too! Men don't know how to be men anymore. I know some wise ass is going to say that it exist as a group encounter session to help other men with their problems.

I say it inhibits men from learning how to deal with life and makes them femmed out. Men are problem solvers not women who group encounter every little thing like " she looked at me what should I do" type of bull crap.

Ok rant over...I'm off

 

[RedZone122]

It's true - while I appreciate this site to some extent - there are just too many sissy's

 

[wolfie]

KC - My point about being healthy wealthy and successful and still not being able to get women is addressed at one of the primary values of sosuave that too many people believe - the assumption that if you concentrate on these areas of your life, women will magically fall into your arms and you'll become a 'DJ'. So many people here think that ASF is therefore shallow and ineffective because it concentrates purely on relationships and getting the girl.

Also, I still haven't read any SS posts on ASF. I read mainly field reports and tactics on ASF. Can you please show me a field report with patterns that was posted in the last week on ASF, because I can't find any. You seem to think that ASF is overrun with SS, but if one has to specifically search for them instead of coming across it in their regular browsing, this doesn't hold water. WHERE CAN I FIND FIELD REPORTS WITH SS POSTED IN THE LAST WEEK?

 

[undesputable]

almost everything in the ASF site is based on double your dating- david deangelo stuff. so instead of wasting time looking over all his mailbags they have posted there and all the threads and posts, just buy his books....

i actually learned everything from double your dating, way back like 8 months ago, and then i came across this site and it seemed intersting...

 

[suavedave]

the real learning

The real learning does not come from reading ASF or sosuave. The guys that are truely good at this game don't participate here or at ASF.

Maybe they will at some point... but there are REAL players out there.

 

[Player_Supreme]

Re: the real learning

Originally posted by suavedave
The real learning does not come from reading ASF or sosuave. The guys that are truely good at this game don't participate here or at ASF.

Maybe they will at some point... but there are REAL players out there.

This is true and not true.

1. Real players are on the internet. I am one and I chat with others like me, including real street pimps. We get bored with square convo and seek others like ourselves.

2. Also real players who are aware of the game will try to improve their own game. One way is to see whats out there. That is how I went from the pimps network to finding this site. Actually one of the street pimps posted a link and some unfavorable words about this particular site. That is how I found sosymp (suave).

3. As I said your statement is true and not true. Real PI's will not sit on a site all day long posting and politicing about mundane shyt. To busy managing their women and rotations stuff.

4. I am assuming your definition of Real Players is a person who has more than one woman in his life. As of Wed I've added my 8'th to my rotation. I went from 3 to 8 within 6 weeks. Jeanny, Gina, Tina, Crystal, Chantel,tanya, Dana, Kacey and soon to add Dorian into my rotation...

So assuming this is what your talking about I've added my voice to your message.

 

[KC_Seductive]

Originally posted by wolfie
KC - My point about being healthy wealthy and successful and still not being able to get women is addressed at one of the primary values of sosuave that too many people believe - the assumption that if you concentrate on these areas of your life, women will magically fall into your arms and you'll become a 'DJ'. So many people here think that ASF is therefore shallow and ineffective because it concentrates purely on relationships and getting the girl.

My point is that this is just basic knowledge. Anyone that has been out in the field knows that. The website you prefer is irrelevant.

Also, I still haven't read any SS posts on ASF. I read mainly field reports and tactics on ASF. Can you please show me a field report with patterns that was posted in the last week on ASF, because I can't find any. You seem to think that ASF is overrun with SS, but if one has to specifically search for them instead of coming across it in their regular browsing, this doesn't hold water. WHERE CAN I FIND FIELD REPORTS WITH SS POSTED IN THE LAST WEEK? [/B]

Its called applying yourself.

In a way, your post exemplifies Player Supreme is talking about. Too many guys want people to hold their hand and spoon feed them information.

Think about it.......

You asked me to provide proof of the SS posts. I provided some search terms, the link and the number of matches you would find.


You even stated that you read Ross' posts, but couldn't find any SS. The pure absurdity of that alone tells me that you didn't really look.

Check out this link:

http://www.fastseduction.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?action=retrieve&grp=4&mn=1071655016118974

...And no, I'm not going to search through over 30,000 posts to find more. Although SS is vague, at least 10,000 of those are probably speed seduction related.



I will do your homework for you once more.....

Here is another term that I'm surprised you didn't try:

SARGE =Field reports

In case you don't believe that, this is from the Glossary of terms at: Maniac's site:
http://www.pickupguide.com/glossary.htm

Sarging = Ross Jeffries term for hunting chicks. Means the same thing as "Nanpa" above. Apparently, "Sarge" is the name of Ross's Cat.



Or, if that isn't good enough for you, try this link:
http://www.fastseduction.com/acronyms.shtml

I bet you will come back and state that you couldn't find any.

Therefore, I will copy and paste some of the 1878 matches.

...Some of which were posted THIS WEEK.




********************


Displaying first 100 of 1878 matches found, sorted by date.

Date Subject Group Author
2004/06/28 SOCIALIZE rather than SARGE mASF.general Lifestyles_69
2004/06/27 How to sarge older chicks mASF.general Unknown_Object
2004/06/26 FR: AFC sargefest mASF.fieldreports gamblor
2004/06/23 Having party mindset at daytim mASF.tactics-techn jettiger
2004/06/22 Having party mindset at daytim mASF.tactics-techn mystique
2004/06/21 Having party mindset at daytim mASF.tactics-techn jettiger
2004/06/18 FU: When Sarges Go Bad How Fun mASF.fieldreports JFUNK
2004/06/17 FR: HB Vs ~Future~ Sarge Compe mASF.fieldreports I Am The Future
2004/06/17 FU: When Sarges Go Bad How Fun mASF.fieldreports I Am The Future
2004/06/06 FR : 999Odin999 sarges SHB9.5S mASF.fieldreports Dloat
2004/06/06 Club sarge daytona beach mASF.fieldreports dkode
2004/06/06 FR : 999Odin999 sarges SHB9.5S mASF.fieldreports 999odin999
2004/06/06 who here WONT sarge AVERAGE gi mASF.general evilviking
2004/06/06 Re: LR: Seoul sarge playground mASF.fieldreports Tokyopua
2004/06/05 who here WONT sarge AVERAGE gi mASF.general Hedge Killa
2004/06/05 Club sarge daytona beach mASF.fieldreports Maxwell Bond
2004/06/04 who here WONT sarge AVERAGE gi mASF.general beewhat
2004/06/04 who here WONT sarge AVERAGE gi mASF.general afcpua
2004/06/04 FR: Recover from an ok sarge mASF.fieldreports Loco1
2004/06/04 FR: Recover from an ok sarge mASF.fieldreports Tom Sawyer
2004/06/04 FR: Recover from an ok sarge mASF.fieldreports Kineti[C]harm
2004/06/02 Re: LR: Seoul sarge playground mASF.fieldreports Organic
2004/06/01 Re: LR: Seoul sarge playground mASF.fieldreports evilviking
2004/05/31 Club sarge daytona beach mASF.fieldreports dkode
2004/05/31 Re: LR: Seoul sarge playground mASF.fieldreports Organic
2004/05/31 Re: LR: Seoul sarge playground mASF.fieldreports Dimitri
2004/05/31 Re: LR: Seoul sarge playground mASF.fieldreports throughfare
2004/05/30 LR: Seoul sarge playground! mASF.fieldreports Organic
2004/05/30 LR: Seoul sarge playground! mASF.fieldreports EvilWithiN
2004/05/26 Mall sarge - getting some appr mASF.fieldreports Zooose
2004/05/25 Mall sarge - getting some appr mASF.fieldreports H20 MAN
2004/05/25 FU: Orlando Sarge, could use s mASF.fieldreports Bludvipr
2004/05/25 Forgetting to prepare pre-sarg mASF.advanced SaintL
2004/05/25 Mall sarge - getting some appr mASF.fieldreports Viper
2004/05/25 Mall sarge - getting some appr mASF.fieldreports LowRider69
2004/05/25 Forgetting to prepare pre-sarg mASF.advanced GeneMachine
2004/05/25 FR: Brief sarge last night mASF.fieldreports gruenfeld
2004/05/25 Mall sarge - getting some appr mASF.fieldreports DaFirstOTH
2004/05/24 Forgetting to prepare pre-sarg mASF.advanced parkblvd
2004/05/24 FU: Orlando Sarge, could use s mASF.fieldreports Celvin
2004/05/24 FU: Orlando Sarge, could use s mASF.fieldreports GuitarZan
2004/05/24 Forgetting to prepare pre-sarg mASF.advanced ijjjji
2004/05/23 FU: Orlando Sarge, could use s mASF.fieldreports Nightblue
2004/05/23 FU: Orlando Sarge, could use s mASF.fieldreports Superfly832
2004/05/23 FR: First sarge with a group o mASF.fieldreports Chaco
2004/05/23 FU: Orlando Sarge, could use s mASF.fieldreports Chaco
2004/05/23 FR: Quick mall sarge mASF.fieldreports Superfly832
2004/05/23 FU: Orlando Sarge, could use s mASF.fieldreports judono
2004/05/23 FR: First sarge with a group o mASF.fieldreports Bebopr
2004/05/23 FU: Orlando Sarge, could use s mASF.fieldreports GuitarZan
2004/05/23 FU: Orlando Sarge, could use s mASF.fieldreports Bludvipr
2004/05/23 FR: First sarge with a group o mASF.fieldreports Riker_AUT
2004/05/23 Questions for PUAs who sarge i mASF.general stevie_pua
2004/05/23 FR: First sarge with a group o mASF.fieldreports Bebopr
2004/05/23 FR: First sarge with a group o mASF.fieldreports evilviking
2004/05/23 FR: First sarge with a group o mASF.fieldreports Bebopr
2004/05/23 Forgetting to prepare pre-sarg mASF.advanced droflove
2004/05/23 Forgetting to prepare pre-sarg mASF.advanced Hive
2004/05/23 FR: First sarge with a group o mASF.fieldreports Riker_AUT
2004/05/22 FR: First sarge with a group o mASF.fieldreports Bebopr
2004/05/22 Forgetting to prepare pre-sarg mASF.advanced GeneMachine
2004/05/21 FR: Quick mall sarge mASF.fieldreports Endiphrent
2004/05/20 Questions for PUAs who sarge i mASF.general Maxwell Bond
2004/05/20 Questions for PUAs who sarge i mASF.general stevie_pua
2004/05/20 FR: Quick mall sarge mASF.fieldreports Sirducer
2004/05/20 interrupted on date/sarge mASF.tactics-techn TylerDurden
2004/05/20 interrupted on date/sarge mASF.tactics-techn Fungry
2004/05/19 Online sarge what to make of t mASF.fieldreports Jaze1618
2004/05/19 Re: Online sarge what to make mASF.fieldreports JustLou
2004/05/19 Questions for PUAs who sarge i mASF.general jettiger
2004/05/19 interrupted on date/sarge mASF.tactics-techn jettiger
2004/05/19 Online sarge what to make of t mASF.fieldreports Sirducer
2004/05/19 Online sarge what to make of t mASF.fieldreports Jaze1618
2004/05/19 Online sarge what to make of t mASF.fieldreports Sirducer
2004/05/19 Online sarge what to make of t mASF.fieldreports Jaze1618
2004/05/18 Questions for PUAs who sarge i mASF.general afcpua
2004/05/18 interrupted on date/sarge mASF.tactics-techn rm_777
2004/05/18 interrupted on date/sarge mASF.tactics-techn beewhat
2004/05/18 Questions for PUAs who sarge i mASF.general stevie_pua
2004/05/18 Questions for PUAs who sarge i mASF.general ijjjji
2004/05/17 Questions for PUAs who sarge i mASF.general Hedge Killa
2004/05/17 how to get few friends male to mASF.general mellow
2004/05/17 Questions for PUAs who sarge i mASF.general jettiger
2004/05/17 how to get few friends male to mASF.general badrenko
2004/05/17 how to get few friends male to mASF.general badrenko
2004/05/15 Re: FR: Birthday Sarge and adv mASF.fieldreports schematic
2004/05/12 FR: Birthday Sarge and advice mASF.fieldreports Harmless
2004/05/12 FR: Birthday Sarge and advice mASF.fieldreports Harmless
2004/05/12 FR: Birthday Sarge and advice mASF.fieldreports Real_Quiet
2004/05/12 FR: Birthday Sarge and advice mASF.fieldreports Harmless
2004/05/12 FR: Birthday Sarge and advice mASF.fieldreports Real_Quiet
2004/05/12 Re: FR: Birthday Sarge and adv mASF.fieldreports Kineti[C]harm
2004/05/11 Re: FR: Birthday Sarge and adv mASF.fieldreports Dimitri
2004/05/11 FR: Birthday Sarge and advice mASF.fieldreports Harmless
2004/05/11 FR: Jerk behavior Flowing In S mASF.fieldreports gruenfeld
2004/05/05 First San Fran Sarge mASF.fieldreports Moderator2
2004/05/03 Two Simple Rules for All Sarge mASF.general formhandle
2004/05/03 Two Simple Rules for All Sarge mASF.general ijjjji
2004/05/02 First San Fran Sarge mASF.fieldreports jlaix

 

[JT47319]

Those posts are IRRELEVANT because SS isn't USED in any of those pick ups.

It's like Freud when it comes to Psychology. He may have PIONEERED the field, but his theories have totally fallen into disuse despite the fact that the VOCABULARY lives on (penis envy, etc).

Sarging has become a vernacular term to actively pick up chicks using gaming skills which does not necessarily include SS (although it can).

TylerDurden doesn't use SS, neither does Nightblue, Jlaix and a host of others as well.

 

[Don Ronny]

Damn it is sad how far some of you guys will go just to prove someone wrong!

For the record, SS is a very outdated model of seduction that few ASFers use.

The most popular methods are

Mystery Method (Group Theory, FMAC, etc)
Grand Master Method (Blatant Sex Talk)
Croatian Badboy Style
Real Social Dynamics (Tyler Durdens coquettish Style)
Gunwitch (Sexual State)
ijjjji (my personal favorite)

along with classic tactics like C&F, Negs, Displays of Higher Value, Rapport, Pimp Talk, I would say that I see very few posts even related to SS these days.

Here is a dollar KC. Go buy yourself a clue!

 

[KC_Seductive]

BTW, the techniques used in the majority of these sarges are concepts presented in the BHSC. SS principles have become commonplace at ASF. You might not realize this unless you've been on ASF for a while.

Ross merely adapted NLP principles to picking up women. It really isn't 'new'.


Her are some terms attributed to Ross:

AFC
DDB
Kino
pattern
sarge / sargy
Self Point
UFEA
USP

USP is actually a term used in advertising. Ross uses that concept with SS.

 

[KC_Seductive]

Originally posted by Don Ronny ]Damn it is sad how far some of you guys will go just to prove someone wrong!

It isn't about proving someone wrong. I was asked to provide proof of SS posts, and I did.

For the record, SS is a very outdated model of seduction that few ASFers use. SS is used in a lot of the sarges/pickups.

Canned patterns are outdated. A lot of ASFers incorporate SS which has evolved.

The most popular methods are

Mystery Method (Group Theory, FMAC, etc)
Grand Master Method (Blatant Sex Talk)
Croatian Badboy Style
Real Social Dynamics (Tyler Durdens coquettish Style)
Gunwitch (Sexual State)
ijjjji (my personal favorite)

along with classic tactics like C&F, Negs, Displays of Higher Value, Rapport, Pimp Talk, I would say that I see very few posts even related to SS these days.

I like all of these too.

C&F is nothing new. I was using C&F long before I ever heard of Ross or Dave. Ross even made mention of it in his very first book.

Rapport is also mentioned in the BHSC.

Here is a dollar KC. Go buy yourself a clue!

Keep the dollar, chump. You obviously need it to buy some common sense.

 

[wolfie]

KC you're arguing pointless etymology. SARGE means going out to pick up women these days. I don't care if Ross Jeffries coined it. I don't care WHAT RJ coined - there is no SS used in most sarges these days. I refer to myself and others sarging all the time and we don't use any SS.
I have no idea what possessed you to list those 100 posts out of 1878 that you came up with either - none of those have anything to do with SS. You seem obsessed with proving a point that doesn't exist.

Let me clarify something - you claim ASF has a high SS influence. The only SS influence that is there is the origin of terms and acronyms. The vast majority of field reports, tactics etc that are posted there contain no SS at all. The etymology of the terms they use is irrelevant if there are no SS principles in the post.

 

[KC_Seductive]

Originally posted by wolfie

I have no idea what possessed you to list those 100 posts out of 1878 that you came up with either - none of those have anything to do with SS. You seem obsessed with proving a point that doesn't exist.

How in the f*** would you know that unless you read all those posts? Hey, forget speed seduction......
I'll sign up for your speed reading course!

I notice that you participate in selective reading. (Or responding)
I stated that we will have to agree to disagree and I hoped that would have been the end of it. But AFTER I posted that, you persisted by asking me:

WHERE CAN I FIND FIELD REPORTS WITH SS POSTED IN THE LAST WEEK?

You were "obsessed" with me posting links to SS posts.
You were somehow unable to find them.
I posted them.
I even posted a link to one of Ross' sarges in which he uses SS.
You didn't concede you were wrong about that, so it is unlikely you would do so if I showed you 10,000 other similar posts. I am not going to provide links to every post that contains SS just to prove my point.

Let me clarify something - you claim ASF has a high SS influence. The only SS influence that is there is the origin of terms and acronyms. The vast majority of field reports, tactics etc that are posted there contain no SS at all. The etymology of the terms they use is irrelevant if there are no SS principles in the post.

It goes beyond the terminology. If you had a real understanding of SS, you would see SS principles applied in a lot of the posts.
Plus, a lot of the tactics evolved from early SS.

It is evident that we won't agree, so lets just drop it.

 

[RedZone122]

Anyone else?