As soon as she talks about her boyfriend, am I friend zone'd?

[Brighty]

Here we go, ladies and gents.

Basically, me and this one popular girl always hang out in our writing class because everyone else in the class is weird, so we really have no one else to talk to. She's been with this one guy for a while - imagine every stereotype of a jock and that's the dude she's dating. She's kind of the stereotypical ditz - she's hot, has big tits, dumb, and flirty (or was, dunno about this year) - the kind that every guy is drooling after and she's been with this guy for 8 months or so and their relationship is straining. The best way to compare me and her boyfriend is that he's aggressive and I'm assertive. I'm more attractive than him, but he's damn good at feigning alpha (I just came out of my shell this year and started hanging out with the popular kids, he's had a three year head start on me), so he does pull a respectable amount of ass (and hers) in the little social heirarchy of our highschool. I'm confident, calm, easy-going, yet I've got a crazily witty sarcastic humor that girls seem to fall for while he's easy to piss off, insecure, and knows just the right amount of "*******" mentality to employ to get what he wants.

Most recently in his escapades of bull**** macho bravado, he punched out some kid because his ex-girlfriend kissed him on the cheek at a party at school. Honestly, the kid tries too damn hard to pretend he's alpha - he starts fights only when surrounded by friends and if his opponent is too much of a ***** to fight back. Anyway, he's known that I've been talking to his girl for a while now, and he hasn't so much as said a word to me because if push came to shove, it's most likely that I'm better friends with his friends than he is and that I don't need to be surrounded by my buddies to knock him the **** out.

So, although I'm not crushing on his girl or anything, but I wouldn't mind having a relationship with her - even if its nothing more than physical. Anyway, in class she always asks me to sit by her and she helps me design my articles because due to my lack of estrogen I have a hideous taste in what looks appealing. Lately, she's been having trouble with one of her friends so she ditzly brings it up. We were sitting in class one day and all of a sudden she says "do you think I'm stupid for staying with him?", I paused for a minute, friend zone bells ringing in my head, but I mentally sighed and humored her. I told her that I don't talk **** about someone behind their back and to drop it... although I did mention that he had to be insecure to react in such a violent way towards the kid mentioned in the above paragraph. That was yesterday, and today while I was working she just randomly said loud enough for me to hear "God, <name> is just so sensitive...". At this point, I was a little confused, it wasn't the stereotypical spiel about "So and so is such a jerk/*******/whatever!" that happens to the stereotypical LJBF guy, it was more like genuinely faulting him.

To put it better context - this girl is "weird", kind of like an always happy and upbeat weird that makes you inexplicably attracted to her. She doesn't think things through, she just says them off the top of her head, which can make for some pretty awkward pauses in the conversation sometimes. Whatever subtly she's applying is going over my head and I could use some help.

Now, I'll be honest, this is where I get confused. People make such a big deal out of "Oh, don't be an emotional pillow"... but its a little unreasonable to think that as soon as she mentions her boyfriend and complains about her problems to you its immediately because you're in the friend-zone. That seems a little extreme. Maybe she's hyper-sensitive. Maybe she's emotionally distressed. Maybe she does need someone to talk to. Wouldn't an alpha hear her out? But where is the line drawn between assertive alpha who understands her problems and is man enough to help her.... and the dreaded friend zone? This same issue caused me SUCH a headache back when I first found this site, I was too worried about falling into the friendzone that I would break off a conversation whenever a girl started talking too much about a problem she might have and come across as a **** when I just thought I was trying to save face. Even now, there is some discrepancy... so this is why I need you guys' help. Again, I'm not really attached to this girl, so please do me a favor and be completely honest with your assessment, because I definately need to have a better understanding of this in the future. Ultimately it comes down to, how do you "accurately" gauge whether or not you're in the friendzone? I'm not talking about the plain answers regurgitated out on the forums of "When she complains to you about her problems" or "When she talks about her boyfriend".


Again, thanks for your help.

 

[Igetit!]

YES.



It's just that simple. You described the FRIENDZONE exactly to the T. I would go through the signs,signals,and qualities of being in the friendzone,but there's no need. Your post covers it perfectly.

 

[saramitch85]

YEs yes.

 

[search1ng]

Just tell her you're going to do X on Y day and that she should come along asap and escalate on the day. Either that or keep her as a friend.

 

[hondo928]

Your screwed you need to do what Search1ng said, on a plus side she probably has cute friends.

 

[Furyguy]

Personally I'd say follow your heart, do the right thing and help your friend out with her problems. Do you deserve more respect for helping a friend out of a tough spot, or for being too afraid to listen to her?

Maybe she's emotionally distressed. Maybe she does need someone to talk to. Wouldn't an alpha hear her out? But where is the line drawn between assertive alpha who understands her problems and is man enough to help her.... and the dreaded friend zone?

so this is why I need you guys' help. Again, I'm not really attached to this girl, so please do me a favor and be completely honest with your assessment, because I definately need to have a better understanding of this in the future. Ultimately it comes down to, how do you "accurately" gauge whether or not you're in the friendzone? I'm not talking about the plain answers regurgitated out on the forums of "When she complains to you about her problems" or "When she talks about her boyfriend".

My thoughts on this... you can't get friend-zone'd until:
A) She knows you want her
B) She decides she doesn't want you.
If either of these two things fail to happen, I'd say you're still good.

Stay the strong unaffected man who isn't trying to sweet talk his way into her pants by getting her to leave her boyfriend, but is rather helping a friend simply because it's the right thing to do.

If you don't give a **** whether she's into you or not, I really don't think you can possibly get friend-zoned.

A problem with AFC's is that they think letting a women pour out all her problems and giving her a shoulder to cry on is the way to sex. Be a man and do it because she is your friend and needs your help, not because it'll get you laid.




And honestly dude, if the girl is seriously in a bad spot right now and needs your help, you'd really just be a selfish ******* not to help her out of it. But of course it still all depends on what specifically you want from this person.

 

[Brighty]

Personally I'd say follow your heart, do the right thing and help your friend out with her problems. Do you deserve more respect for helping a friend out of a tough spot, or for being too afraid to listen to her?





My thoughts on this... you can't get friend-zone'd until:
A) She knows you want her
B) She decides she doesn't want you.
If either of these two things fail to happen, I'd say you're still good.

Stay the strong unaffected man who isn't trying to sweet talk his way into her pants by getting her to leave her boyfriend, but is rather helping a friend simply because it's the right thing to do.

If you don't give a **** whether she's into you or not, I really don't think you can possibly get friend-zoned.

A problem with AFC's is that they think letting a women pour out all her problems and giving her a shoulder to cry on is the way to sex. Be a man and do it because she is your friend and needs your help, not because it'll get you laid.




And honestly dude, if the girl is seriously in a bad spot right now and needs your help, you'd really just be a selfish ******* not to help her out of it. But of course it still all depends on what specifically you want from this person.

Thank you for actually reading my post. All too often people on these boards follow the "rules" of the game right down to the letter... and often these are the same people that are the inexperienced ones in the game (Search1ng excluded). Ironically, the reason why they are inexperienced is because they didn't heed those famous words from Pirates of the Carribean "they're more like guidelines anyway". I could go on a rant about how following the rules literally and precisely will ultimately ****block you in the end, but I digress. The point is that to think that every girl operates the same way is inane and just doesn't make sense.

Looking back on my post, I realize that I neglected to mention a few things because I was moreso hoping for advice on defining the friendzone. As I said in my original post, the common misconception is on these boards is that as soon as a girl even mentions her boyfriend or something personal, you pull away and go "omg,friendzone!", and sure enough Igetit (who apparently doesn't get it) just read those magic words and immediately assumed. As such, I didnt really get the answer I was hoping for.

Let me clarify, though:

1. I see her once every other day, maybe sometimes in the hallways, we just pass by and say hey.

2. I wouldn't really consider us good friends, hell, even though she's been in my class, I just started talking/sitting next to her two weeks ago.

3. She brought it up twice. Once yesterday, once earlier today. Each time I've dismissed it or ignored it and shes dropped it. I dont think she's really emotionally distressed, she doesn't show it. Perhaps I worded it wrong in my original post. Other than that, our conversation has been flirtacious in nature. This girl does not mean much to me, sure she is attractive, but I'm already talking to two girls right now, and I don't feel the need to have her. Although, I wrote this post because I know down the road I will encounter this situation again and I need to know how to deal with it.

4. I'm not a conventional board member, I suppose. I don't follow the rules of a Don Juan that most of the members on this board do, but rather, I follow the mindset or the "state" of a Don Juan. I don't say "Hey, I need to apply kino now" or "keep asking her questions to get her talking about herself" or "is my body posture good?" or "am I doing enough negging?", to me that comes across as not a romantic interaction, but rather, an emotionless practice nailed down to a science. Everything seems artificial and anything but genuine. I've found MUCH more success when I just incorporate what I've learned and just be myself. I don't even realize when I kino, it's just natural. And I mean genuinely natural, not the "I've learned how to repeatidly use kino at pre-determined intervals to convince myself its natural". So when I was asking for a genuine definiton of the friend zone, not a broad and extremely vague sense of it. I'm attempting to embody the qualities of being a strong unaffected man and this is another stepping stone (albeit crucial) in my development. Thank you Fury for helping me out on it so far.

 

[The Sperminator]

Brighty I agree with you, you shouldn't always follow all the rules, but from what you described I've heard it too many times, I also have fell for it many times. Don't fall for it. Especially with these hot girls. Shes not emotionally distressed, shes fine. Girls just love to *****. She has girlfriends to talk to this about, and unless you want to be her girlfriend just tell her you don't want to hear about it or change the subject.

 

[playaslaya]

Let it go...greener pastures with less effort are out there...just stay friends

 

[DonGorgon]

No! you are being warned that she is not available for more than an F... She doin this cause she senses needyness coming from you...

 

[ferjcas]

Most likely yes, you're ****ed.

 

[nismo-4]

You Are Friendzoned!!! Thanks For Playing!!!
You read it, now weep. After that, get your ass back in the game.

BTW, an alpha male would've cut the b**ch loose as SOON as she brought up a boyfriend. Not done by you.

 

[Brighty]

You guys are right. Should've listened sooner. Then again I don't really care because by me talking to a hot girl, it pushes my social status up regardless.

The problem is that I sit next to her in class though.

 

[Pimp-sicle]

It really depends on how your interactions go, without being there in person its kinda hard to give you a definitive answer to your question.

Personally, the way I took it was that this chick was mentioning the negative aspects of her bf, which was her opening a door for you to seduce her and up the attraction.

Don't put too much stock into this one girl, but just continue to flirt with her, if she's constantly bringing up her bf, then its not a good sign. However if she's flirty with you and open to your advances, then keep progressing. Most chicks (especially young ones) are easier to get when they have a bf because most guys are chumps and can't keep a girl's interest.

Start teasing her, being sarcastic with her and see where that gets you. If you play your cards right, you'll have a chance to do your thing.




PIMP

 

[Ollie]

I agree with pimp. There's two sides to this in my mind. The one most people seem to be gravitating towards is that she's telling you this cause she see's you as a whimpy friend she can talk to.

But it could very well also be that she's telling you because she wants t see your reaction. Girls are like monkey's swinging on a vine. They don't like to let go of the vine they're on until the next vine is within reach. So you could very well be the next vine she's reaching for. Like Pimp said though, impossible to tell just reading on here only you know how the interactions go.

 

[Lambda]

Hey Ollie (or someone else), what reactions would she be looking after and what would it tell her? I know this is an old thread, but it would be very interesting to know.

 

[foreverAFC]

halfway into the first paragraph i knew you were friendzoned due to how much you knew about this girls bf.

 

[marmel75]

If I am not mistaken I remember reading something about Ross Jeffires using NLP as a way of implanting thoughts in a woman's head regarding her boyfriend that came off as innocent conversation, but ended up making her want to dump the dude and get with you, and made it seem like it was all her doing...can't remember where I read it, but the stuff was pretty freaking good, although there would be a lot of stuff to remember...

either that or just tell her to save that sh!t for some other dude, you don't want to hear it...

 

[VladPatton]

I would just play it cool, man. If this chick ever wants to jump ship with her douche bag BF and she's cool with you, you just might be able to sneak in a bang. I mean, what are you really losing by listening to her bullʂhit BF stories? Nothing really. Don't react to them. Don't give her advice, just do nothing and look at her. Eventually she'll stop and realize you don't give a ʂhit about her problems.

If she decides she had enough of him you'd be right there to start bangin her (providing she finds you attractive). If not, no loss on your part because you win either way. You can always stare at her titʂ when she's not lookin lol.

As a general concept, you don't need to turn into her girlfriend with a penis and ooh and awe her at every woe...THEN you'll be FZ'd and F'd for sure. Keep a stone face and play it cool. Also, avoid 10 million messages via text, too.

 

[Brighty]

HOLY **** :crackup:



I did a double take when I saw this thread. LOL. Why in the world would you guys bump a four year old thread?

Oh man, this reminds me how much I love going back through my old post history and seeing how far I've come.

Funny story if this is the same girl I'm thinking of - I'm almost positive this is the same girl I was talking about in the OP (back then there were more than a few girls friendzoning me to say the least) :crackup: ; I ran into her at a bar six months ago during the summer. Apparently word of mouth has been spreading around my graduating HS class about me and the kind of work I've been doing over the past couple years, and when I met her this summer she wouldn't stop talking about how different I am. I laughed it off and told how I always thought she was "fvcking gorgeous" in high school, and that I was awful with women back then so nothing happened. She replied with some unbelievably cheesy line (something about "life giving me another chance tonight") that might as well been out of a Disney movie and that was that. We hung out and bar hopped around throughout the night, and long story short we went home together. It was a pretty liberating night.

Totally forgot to call her back though. Not out of any petty HS revenge shyt mind you, but I had to catch a flight early that morning and things were so busy when I landed that I spaced on it entirely.

I owe a lot to this site. Took me a few years of learning and fumbling along the way, but if you stick with it and don't give up, you will see the results you want.