Archetypes

[UK manc]

Hi, first post, although I've been around before years ago. It kinda feel like I need a "refresher course"..all the knowledge is there somewhere but struggling to apply it again.

In the UK there's a real common archetype bloke this decade that gets partnered up:
- 5'9" ish
- tattoos
- on and off gym (mostly off) so a bit of added muscle but poorly optimised and chubby
- looks like he needs a shower
- manual labourer
- using debt to get an Audi/BMW/Mercedes + more tattoos
- drinks every weekend, likely some drugs too
- always angry/aggressive
- untidy stubble or beard

I think I'm coming across a bit incongruous to a lot of women..

- 6'2"+ heavy weights 3-4x week
- very lean (you could say ripped)
- no tattoos
- laid back (probably too chilled)
- clean shave every 4 days
- no drink, smoking or drugs (the no booze is a big thing socially in UK)

It seems birds now expect a gym build to be associated with tattoos, "hard-living" and that whole aggressive gymtard persona.

Maybe I come across as married or cucked..dunno.

Hello anyway

 

[Mike32ct]

How is your hair? Assuming full hair…

Maybe stay clean shaven and no tats, but grow out your hair and get a longer, thicker more sexy hairstyle.

Be the tall “pretty boy” rather than the shorter edgy bad boy.

Your body sounds like it’s totally on point, so I would be thinking about hair and clothes.

 

[Westminster]

Hi, first post, although I've been around before years ago. It kinda feel like I need a "refresher course"..all the knowledge is there somewhere but struggling to apply it again.

In the UK there's a real common archetype bloke this decade that gets partnered up:
- 5'9" ish
- tattoos
- on and off gym (mostly off) so a bit of added muscle but poorly optimised and chubby
- looks like he needs a shower
- manual labourer
- using debt to get an Audi/BMW/Mercedes + more tattoos
- drinks every weekend, likely some drugs too
- always angry/aggressive
- untidy stubble or beard

I think I'm coming across a bit incongruous to a lot of women..

- 6'2"+ heavy weights 3-4x week
- very lean (you could say ripped)
- no tattoos
- laid back (probably too chilled)
- clean shave every 4 days
- no drink, smoking or drugs (the no booze is a big thing socially in UK)

It seems birds now expect a gym build to be associated with tattoos, "hard-living" and that whole aggressive gymtard persona.

Maybe I come across as married or cucked..dunno.

Hello anyway

I laughed out loud at your description of the archetypal Brit. It's so true.

I'm not as tall as you but I also live in the north of England and I'm in good nick, clean living, no tattoos or any of the other nonsense you mention, and somehow you just feel out of place nowadays. It's mad really!

ps. Welcome aboard.

 

[UK manc]

How is your hair? Assuming full hair…

Maybe stay clean shaven and no tats, but grow out your hair and get a longer, thicker more sexy hairstyle.

Be the tall “pretty boy” rather than the shorter edgy bad boy.

Your body sounds like it’s totally on point, so I would be thinking about hair and clothes.

Balding but not bald, so I use the closest clippers every three or four days. It then fades well into my (very short) stubble after one day of face shaving. Jason Statham ish I suppose. There's some greying too so the clippers and clean shaving hide that.

 

[zekko]

It seems birds now expect a gym build to be associated with tattoos, "hard-living" and that whole aggressive gymtard persona.
Maybe I come across as married or cucked..dunno.

Screw 'em. Be what you want. You may not attract as many, but you'll attract a higher quality woman.

 

[Arete]

I think I'm coming across a bit incongruous to a lot of women..

Very relatable. Sometimes it's like I'm the only big guy at the gym without tattoos and a chill personality. Depending on the person, I feel like I'm making wildly varying types of first impression. Ranging from "nice guy" to "dangerous." More often than not, it's an extreme of either.

To me, being muscular without all this wannabe stuff is the obvious choice in life.

I wonder if perhaps this archetype is not as attractive for average modern women as it should be. Like attracts like maybe? However, HB7 and upwards, especially if she had a good upbringing, finds these traits noticeably more interesting, as far as I can tell.

Balding but not bald, so I use the closest clippers every three or four days. It then fades well into my (very short) stubble after one day of face shaving. Jason Statham ish I suppose. There's some greying too so the clippers and clean shaving hide that.

I'm a natural who doesn't even do creatine and other supps. I'm not the most ripped guy and also not the most massive guy. But I got like 70-80% of both sides and also a hairline that I barely see anyone else at my age in the gym.

My jawline is also quite nice, cutting out salt and eating clean goes a long way, in my opinion. Salt and creatine make you appear bigger, sure. But everyone forgets the obvious part that it also makes the head "bigger" too.

 

[The Duke]

The fact that you start out comparing yourself to others is a concern. That's the first thing I would work on. It speaks volumes about who you are.

 

[plumber]

if you look good and are good, then the missing is opportunity. how is your list of male friends... are you in some social circles. try to help some of your friends in topics your good at. for example, teach your out of shape friend how to gym... teach your gym friends how to (whatever else your good at). provide value to others that has only small cost to you. this creates the view that your a leader. women love leaders.

 

[UK manc]

The fact that you start out comparing yourself to others is a concern. That's the first thing I would work on. It speaks volumes about who you are.

It was a social observation. There's are a fairly blatant social split between the "haves and have nots" when it comes to tattoos in the UK, almost like the competing musical followings of late last century. It's definitely a thing but not widely written about yet.

Anyway...I'm freshly back new to the scene so it's part of assessing the lay of the land.

 

[UK manc]

if you look good and are good, then the missing is opportunity. how is your list of male friends... are you in some social circles. try to help some of your friends in topics your good at. for example, teach your out of shape friend how to gym... teach your gym friends how to (whatever else your good at). provide value to others that has only small cost to you. this creates the view that your a leader. women love leaders.

Gym scene is good. Great group of regulars in there 06:00 to 08:00. Then Working From Home...(Which pays great and is very easy, but...). I'll always get outside at lunchtime.

Apart from that...a phone call or 100+ miles away. Biannual catch ups as we have all established careers etc.

I won't be doing the night scene like some of the topics here are about. The UK turns to an utter ****show after about 7pm anyway thanks to, ahem, government policies.

 

[UK manc]

Very relatable. Sometimes it's like I'm the only big guy at the gym without tattoos and a chill personality. Depending on the person, I feel like I'm making wildly varying types of first impression. Ranging from "nice guy" to "dangerous." More often than not, it's an extreme of either.

To me, being muscular without all this wannabe stuff is the obvious choice in life.

I wonder if perhaps this archetype is not as attractive for average modern women as it should be. Like attracts like maybe? However, HB7 and upwards, especially if she had a good upbringing, finds these traits noticeably more interesting, as far as I can tell.



I'm a natural who doesn't even do creatine and other supps. I'm not the most ripped guy and also not the most massive guy. But I got like 70-80% of both sides and also a hairline that I barely see anyone else at my age in the gym.

My jawline is also quite nice, cutting out salt and eating clean goes a long way, in my opinion. Salt and creatine make you appear bigger, sure. But everyone forgets the obvious part that it also makes the head "bigger" too.

Nice. Just having a methodical gym routine puts you so far ahead of the on-and-off normie who drinks every weekend. I know many train hard during the week but then have huge calories surplus from alcohol at weekend. Treading water.

"Depending on the person, I feel like I'm making wildly varying types of first impression. Ranging from "nice guy" to "dangerous"

Do you try to act more chilled to almost downplay your size? Avoid scaring people...

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

Hi, first post, although I've been around before years ago. It kinda feel like I need a "refresher course"..all the knowledge is there somewhere but struggling to apply it again.

In the UK there's a real common archetype bloke this decade that gets partnered up:
- 5'9" ish
- tattoos
- on and off gym (mostly off) so a bit of added muscle but poorly optimised and chubby
- looks like he needs a shower
- manual labourer
- using debt to get an Audi/BMW/Mercedes + more tattoos
- drinks every weekend, likely some drugs too
- always angry/aggressive
- untidy stubble or beard

I think I'm coming across a bit incongruous to a lot of women..

- 6'2"+ heavy weights 3-4x week
- very lean (you could say ripped)
- no tattoos
- laid back (probably too chilled)
- clean shave every 4 days
- no drink, smoking or drugs (the no booze is a big thing socially in UK)

It seems birds now expect a gym build to be associated with tattoos, "hard-living" and that whole aggressive gymtard persona.

Maybe I come across as married or cucked..dunno.

Hello anyway

A man who is like a fine-wine will by definition only be able to be enjoyed by those who have more refined pallet. It's the same thing for a good cut of meat, oysters, dark chocolate, etc. The masses by definition have more crass taste and wouldn't be able to enjoy a good piece of literature, classic music or refined cuisine. Consider yourself a catch that only a few women even have the eyes to spot. Its a gift and a curse...

 

[Arete]

Nice. Just having a methodical gym routine puts you so far ahead of the on-and-off normie who drinks every weekend. I know many train hard during the week but then have huge calories surplus from alcohol at weekend. Treading water.

"Depending on the person, I feel like I'm making wildly varying types of first impression. Ranging from "nice guy" to "dangerous"

Do you try to act more chilled to almost downplay your size? Avoid scaring people...

Do you (or anyone else) here have an opinion on the "dark triad" archetype? As far as I can tell, in the real world, it's rather unattractive to women under 25 and especially under 20? I have some of those traits, but I had, in more than one situation, women practically run away from me after talking about certain things. It was nothing too over the top, relatively normal stuff even.

My impression is that for prime targets, the "prince" archetype outperforms completely. Any "dark" traits seem to decrease perceived value in that age range? Or is this something you only let on after the second time you meet or even later?

 

[Clockwerk50]

Do you (or anyone else) here have an opinion on the "dark triad" archetype? As far as I can tell, in the real world, it's rather unattractive to women under 25 and especially under 20? I have some of those traits, but I had, in more than one situation, women practically run away from me after talking about certain things. It was nothing too over the top, relatively normal stuff even.

My impression is that for prime targets, the "prince" archetype outperforms completely. Any "dark" traits seem to decrease perceived value in that age range? Or is this something you only let on after the second time you meet or even later?

About four years ago, after the COVID lockdowns, I was sleeping with this girl. I think the second time I was staying at her house, around 3:00 a.m., I started talking about Jim Jones and a phase when I was reading about serial killers. According to this girl, she went to her friend and started discussing whether those kinds of topics and behaviours were a red flag. Thankfully, her friend vouched for me, and at the end of the day, all I heard was, you are lucky you got a second chance.

The point is that you have to watch what you say. It is part of having the social skills and emotional tact you need when dating women. Just blabbing without thinking can have consequences. With women, your words can be as powerful as a blouse and a push-up bra on a woman.

As per the Dark Triad types, the three are narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy.
All I know is that narcissism can sometimes be attractive because the person may project an exuberant and seemingly high level of confidence that can be perceived as charisma, status, and social dominance. Maybe you can do research on the other 2.

 

[BaronOfHair]

A self-imposed obstacle among many modern men, the likes of which impedes their success far more seriously than height or the like...

They communicate in a fashion like https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1K9QhMcvuW/

Such indirectness(Instead of saying outright: "Everyone attends happy hour... Unless you have trouble with booze")is a stereotypically feminine trait

 

[Arete]

About four years ago, after the COVID lockdowns, I was sleeping with this girl. I think the second time I was staying at her house, around 3:00 a.m., I started talking about Jim Jones and a phase when I was reading about serial killers. According to this girl, she went to her friend and started discussing whether those kinds of topics and behaviours were a red flag. Thankfully, her friend vouched for me, and at the end of the day, all I heard was, you are lucky you got a second chance.

The point is that you have to watch what you say. It is part of having the social skills and emotional tact you need when dating women. Just blabbing without thinking can have consequences. With women, your words can be as powerful as a blouse and a push-up bra on a woman.

As per the Dark Triad types, the three are narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy.
All I know is that narcissism can sometimes be attractive because the person may project an exuberant and seemingly high level of confidence that can be perceived as charisma, status, and social dominance. Maybe you can do research on the other 2.

I definitely don't have narcissism or machiavellianism. Rather, I'm struggling with low self-esteem and being overly honest. Psychopathy maybe, but that only happens if I'm in a high stress situation and I imagine everyone going a bit psycho if pushed hard enough.

Isn't this "Dark Triad" stuff about what you do rather than what you are? I always assumed these 3 personality traits were a dumbed down version you typically see in the first couple Google results.

Some time back, I used to be into AI chat roleplay. I happened to look through the section on what women are into. And I didn't see many characters that displayed these three traits. Rather, it was a personality not so different from mine, but all had insanely high specs. Oil Tycoon, Weapon manufacturer, Mafia boss, Professional Hitman. All outperform the real world equivalents, such as a "regular" billionaire and world-class athlete by a mile. Yet all of them seem to have an almost kind personality (lmao)

Now, is this what women THINK they want or what they actually want? I don't think it matters as a DJ, but I think psychology is interesting.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I definitely don't have narcissism or machiavellianism. Rather, I'm struggling with low self-esteem and being overly honest. Psychopathy maybe, but that only happens if I'm in a high stress situation and I imagine everyone going a bit psycho if pushed hard enough.

Isn't this "Dark Triad" stuff about what you do rather than what you are? I always assumed these 3 personality traits were a dumbed down version you typically see in the first couple Google results.

Some time back, I used to be into AI chat roleplay. I happened to look through the section on what women are into. And I didn't see many characters that displayed these three traits. Rather, it was a personality not so different from mine, but all had insanely high specs. Oil Tycoon, Weapon manufacturer, Mafia boss, Professional Hitman. All outperform the real world equivalents, such as a "regular" billionaire and world-class athlete by a mile. Yet all of them seem to have an almost kind personality (lmao)

Now, is this what women THINK they want or what they actually want? I don't think it matters as a DJ, but I think psychology is interesting.

You are conflating personality traits with social roles and behavioural signals.

Personality traits, as an example, are confidence, status, competence, decisiveness, emotional stability, etc., which you define by how someone generally thinks, feels, and carries themselves. Hence the reason why the Dark Triad is based on personality traits such as narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy.

The social roles and behavioural signals stem from the qualities those roles represent. It works both ways. The women you are supposed to like in romantic fiction are usually beautiful, mysterious, adventurous, intelligent, nurturing, or some other idealized archetype, often paired with roles like actress, singer, artist, dancer, fashion model, nanny, waitress, or heiress. Men are rarely just ordinary guys either; they are musicians, billionaires, athletes, soldiers, bad boys, or similar archetypes. These roles create an image that is more interesting than simply being an ordinary, familiar person, which gives the other person something to idealize and fantasize about.

An example of ordinary would be a guy who works a regular 9-to-5 job, comes home, plays video games, watches Netflix, and has nothing particularly distinctive about his lifestyle or identity.

Hopefully this helps.

 

[Arete]

You are conflating personality traits with social roles and behavioural signals.

Personality traits, as an example, are confidence, status, competence, decisiveness, emotional stability, etc., which you define by how someone generally thinks, feels, and carries themselves. Hence the reason why the Dark Triad is based on personality traits such as narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy.

The social roles and behavioural signals stem from the qualities those roles represent. It works both ways. The women you are supposed to like in romantic fiction are usually beautiful, mysterious, adventurous, intelligent, nurturing, or some other idealized archetype, often paired with roles like actress, singer, artist, dancer, fashion model, nanny, waitress, or heiress. Men are rarely just ordinary guys either; they are musicians, billionaires, athletes, soldiers, bad boys, or similar archetypes. These roles create an image that is more interesting than simply being an ordinary, familiar person, which gives the other person something to idealize and fantasize about.

An example of ordinary would be a guy who works a regular 9-to-5 job, comes home, plays video games, watches Netflix, and has nothing particularly distinctive about his lifestyle or identity.

Hopefully this helps.

It makes sense I guess. It's just that it seems that most female AI characters have extreme personalities while most male characters have extreme lifestyles. I feel like there is a tendency. All are beautiful/handsome obviously, but it appears female characters often have relatively normal roles and male characters often have relatively normal personalities. That's why it crossed my mind that perhaps this is saying something. Any thoughts?

 

[Clockwerk50]

It makes sense I guess. It's just that it seems that most female AI characters have extreme personalities while most male characters have extreme lifestyles. I feel like there is a tendency. All are beautiful/handsome obviously, but it appears female characters often have relatively normal roles and male characters often have relatively normal personalities. That's why it crossed my mind that perhaps this is saying something. Any thoughts?

This probably stems from gender polarity, since men and women tend to be attracted to different things. Men tend to be more visually driven, which is why female characters are often idealized through beauty, femininity, devotion, motherliness, saintliness, loyalty, etc. Women, on the other hand, can be more attracted to what a man does, represents, and his position in the world, which is why male characters are often given extraordinary lifestyles, careers, wealth, or status.