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If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

80% of our problems with women would disappear if we would just...

Poonani Maker

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You can Make her interested, especially if she's not too bright, but also if she is bright, by talking to her in convo as if you're in bed with her already making woopy. She'll enjoy the communication dance as much as she'll enjoy the fvcking dance, or maybe even a dance dance to music in between. She wants to dance, to feel wanted, to be Listened to, to feel affection, to feel your c0ck in her. She wants the you-care-about-her, even if you barely know her. Become her god, become her warm leaning on or retirement. Push/pull speaking on her wavelength that says "I understand you." This is how her friends end up saying "what do you ever See in him???" and she says, "I just love the way he talks to me." Making her horny over you to make her feel like she knows you.

She Doesn't want, however, to be USED. If you build up her horniness for you and you disrespect her or cheat on her, or take her for granted, make her feel like sh!t, then she'll lose trust and there your ability to get to fvck her more evaporates.
 

devilkingx2

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IMO, many men are not oblivious to IOIs, they are merely ignoring the IOIs they do get simply because they are unhappy with the quality of women typically sending them. They are looking most often toward women above their league who are not sending them the IOIs they wish to see.
the trick isn't seeing the hints, the trick is interpreting them correctly, most missed IOIs are written off as friendly or a quirk of the girl's that she does with everyone or normal interaction or some such thing
 

AttackFormation

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Women will fake a high IL by habit to get orbiters wittingly or unwittingly and there are social experiments to prove it. The men who talked to them had no idea and thought the girls were enjoying themselves and into them. They fake orgasms. They wear fake up. Even their biology has evolved to fake out males so they look like they're always ovulating. I think the best IOI is her behavior, not her flirting. She keeps the conversation going, she asks you to meet and is prepared to go as long as or longer than you to see each other, she is upfront about herself. And then you've got all the cases beyond that when the woman's flirting is simply part of her job or career climbing.
 

corrector

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Every time you are worried about interpreting a particular woman's IL, you are neglecting abundance mentality. There is nothing to interpret when you have it.

If there is always someone you can reach out to for that booty call, if you can go out on a date with someone new any night of the week that you want to, if you can place an ad online and women are messaging you rather than the other way around, you are not going to sit there and try to determine whether or not any one particular woman's IL is genuine or faked.

You are always going to deal with women who follow through.

Those who do not will always fall to the wayside very quickly, and you won't give two sh*ts about it.

IMO, there is no such thing as an interpretation problem. It's a problem of abundance.

If a man is not happy with the typical women he attracts, he is not going to have an abundance mentality without compromising his sexual interest and standards on women. Most guys would rather not do that. So, as an alternative, these guys end up focusing on those occasional women that might come along that they are attracted to but do not normally attract, and this is when they have to wonder about how genuine that IL might actually be:

Is she really into me?
Is she stringing me along as an orbiter?
Is her ratio of initiating contact a sign of her IL
Or am I the one always trying harder?

You just don't worry about that stuff when you have a list of phone numbers of women with higher IL and some follow through. Any woman without a genuine interest will eliminate themselves.
Exactly! Then if this same guy is lucky enough to get into a relationship with one of these women, it's usually the woman initiating the break-up/divorce, or behaving in such a way that the guy has no choice but to break-up/divorce with her and then the lady, who is 99.9% at fault, happily moves-on quickly while the guy feels like the rug is pulled out under him and has nothing to show. He can't get another girl in x,y,z, amount of years because that's not the type of girl he normally attracts making break-ups especially more brutal where they can't get over their ex.

The only way to mimic an abundance mentality was to see hookers after the last divorce. If you can't get a booty call, at least you can set-up one and pay a nominal fee and it's like whatever. Didn't expect that type of reaction I got from it though. All I know my thoughts were on the escort and my reaction and forgot about my ex-wife and was worried about losing my mind and soul instead, so that is like abundance mentality.
 

samspade

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I wouldn't see it that way because it depends on who is doing the defining and if you are looking at a red-pill lens or a black-pill lens. Red-Pill concepts always implied there was a way of improvement that follows through game, PUA tactics, approaches, etc.... In a sense, Blue-pillers would be the normal AFC that have not woke. That is, if you follow the rules, get a good job, then you should be able to find a wife, grow a family and live happily ever after and teach your kids to do the same. WBAFC/BAFC (Way below Afc/Below AFc) would sound like more extreme variants, but it's all part of a continuum leading to the PUA/PIMP/DJ. That is, if you become woke, and learn some sort of game or skill and sort of clicked, then anyone has a potential applying their skill to make it with women and become a slayer. Otherwise you are shelling your wallet and supplicating like crazy to get the attention of a woman and are AFCish.

The Black-pill lens would be more fitting for incel and the incel universe. It would say the red-pill concepts are bogus, only work with Chads who don't need them anyway and it's all a waste of time. Does the board reflect this? If you can only run game on women who are interested in you or are showing a healthy IL, then doesn't that sound like a black-pill to you? Part of the red-pill idea is you can get any woman you want if you understood game, then you can CONVERT, a borderline/low IL that's way out of your league into a conquest and have her fall for you. But why does this thread exist if it's true? Could the black-pill also be hitting this site? Am I really the source of the "jaded/cancerous" dialogue on here, or am I simply pointing out the obvious that we have gone full circle. If you can't convert a low IL to a high IL, and have to settle with who is giving you IOI's, then that defeats the purpose of the red-pill since you are not really in control, they are! All the tricks and gimmics to change the AFC to a DJ/PUA does not work, and if you have to settle with high IL, then that sounds AFC to the core to me. Any AFC can get with a high-interest level girl, that's not game, that's desperation.

It seems incel sites have gone along way because they keep adding more and more definitions and create a whole universe in themselves. I think it would be saying that if you are not in control and they are and if they have collectively chosen to reject you, then there is no real choice in the matter. No matter how much game you run, approaches you do, assuming you have the time to do it, you'll always end up alone and worst off than if you did not do anything in the first place. It's it's not your ego, then it's your pocket-book and peace of mind. Studies even show and you can look it up that people who never married rate higher in the happiness scale then people who married and then divorced afterwards and ended up alone.



I think there are people like that out there. They tend to be naturally charismatic and women just fawn on them. I know a couple of guys IRL that meet that description:

I go to this store which is called Nature's Emporium. There is this guy with a beard working there. You can see the chicks dig him to the point of annoyance. There were times I felt tempted to ask his male college how does he feel that his friend is getting all the tail from all the workers there, lol! Seriously. Customers are extra friendly with him. You hear cooks in the place making special meals for him and who knows what type of hanky-panky is happening. His name is "Waldo".

There is another guy in a Bible Study, name is "Gabe". I had an ex-gf there but she got very excited around him and always liked hugging him. This rubbed off on me the wrong way because it felt like she was settling for me but really liked him. (I met her online and this was part of her social group). After the break-up with my ex-gf I went to a Bible class where he was assigned. I could clearly see that he had a natural charisma and women just gravitated towards him and it felt like I did not exist.

When you see hot girls giving these types of guys attention and you are ignored then you sort of feel bad and emasculated. Or, a decade ago, I met a lady online that was low-IL with me but looked like she may warm up with me. I then see her website and find out she was pumped and dumped by a chad and started crying all over the place. So, real life Chads, yes, I would say they don't have to be celebrity status. In a sense, I don't view celebrities as a threat because they have their own problems in their own type of level and I don't envy people with that type of fame and pressure and overall distortion of life. It would feel like someone is chasing a fantasy if they went with a celebrity, much like a man chasing an escort, it's not the same as say someone else that's not a celebrity but a Chad.
Thanks for this. I think you're getting bogged down in theory, and what other people are doing. "You do you" as they say. There's always going to be someone out there with more than you, and less than you.

Nobody's saying "settle." Go after what you want, but if there's low IL, move on. Many men have been pleasantly surprised by the kind of women they can attract with just the slightest effort and use of technique. I don't care if Chads exist or not, I'm not keeping a scorecard. They can get theirs. If you're being AMOG'd you can try to diffuse it, or next the girl. An old man told me, women are like streetcars, one leaves, another one comes along.
 

Roober

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To be honest, I dont think indicators of interest are always as clear as you suggest. The whole concept has so many variables, which makes it near impossible to consider. And to be honest, they confuse the hell out of men. When you couple that with mens lack of empathy, narcissism, and a lack of interpersonal communication skills, you are headed for disaster.

Some guys will take any sign as a woman who is interested. Many men will mistake a womans friendliness as interest. This can possibly lead to rape for sure where a man is completely unaware that a woman is not interested until he corners her in a bedroom. I am willing to bet many many women have encountered these men.

I would suggest that a man only judges a woman by her actions.
1. Ask for her number. That is usually as clear as day, however, some women consider giving their number out I consequential.

2. Ask for a date and make sure that she is aware it is a date.

3. AFTER building some rapport, go for this kiss.

Actions always speak louder than words and anything else such as IOI, is merely a game. I do agree that more men need to put aside their ego and only pursue women who are interested. She isnt a special snowflake, there is always a better option out there!
 

samspade

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Fickle, flakey women do not get second chances.

I don't ghost a woman to generate attraction. I do it because they crossed a line.

I do it to eliminate, not generate.
We don't disagree. Sounds like you are doing what the OP recommends.
 

Atom Smasher

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Some have mention techniques. Techniques are essentially guidelines and training wheels to get you onto the playing field.

Once you know the "rules" and principles inside and out, and once you know why they exist,, you are free to bend them and break them according to your will.
 

HankHill

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OK, I'll bite.

1. So what are these 'tools' and 'techniques' ya'll are theorizing about? I mean let's make this thread practical if we want to fix the problems of getting women/plates. I think we all get the basics already i.e. dress well, have confidence, lead etc. What am I missing?

2. I come from a list of several very long LTRs (4yrs to 9+yrs) including marriage/kids etc so spinning plates is a new concept to me. Looking back, I don't have a single regret about any of my relationships. I, even if delusionaly, really enjoyed having that mental, emotional and physical connections with them. My life felt great, tons of memories together, traveling the world, building dreams and achieving many of them. Ultimately they all went bust but the satisfaction and bliss I felt being in those relationships, I don't know if I can ever get that from spinning plates for the rest of my life. May be I'm wired differently than most guys. Regardless, at this stage in my life I'm totally open to spinning plates and see how it goes...never hurts to try something different and see what others are talking about. However, to spin plates you have to collect the plates first, apparently, they don't come by as often for me as they do for most of you guys. So I do invest more in the ones that come along. Also, I don't have the bigdave17 standards lol but I have some standards, I can't do short fatties or crackhoze, I just can't. So how does someone starting out builds a plate rotation? You have to invest a little at first before you adopt the 'train stop' mentality.

Also, the women I was with in the past would never have been ok with me not being available on a daily basis. So to spin plates you're talking a different type of women- who are likely riding the c*ck carousel too. If you're not invested in them they're not invested in you either. So I still haven't felt comfortable with that idea yet, in fact, it's why I broke up with my last gf of 6+yrs who was the best lay I ever had (and likely ever will) because I didn't want my body parts rubbing the scent of another dudes parts. Again, I just find that repulsive. I mean I wish I didn't care but I do lol.
 
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Red Legg

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A very good looking guy. A male 8+ in looks. May or may not be a player.
GOD DAMN..... I am a super Chad then.I am going to have a personalized license plate made saying "CHAD" in big letters to piss all the fvcking worthless incels off.
 

samspade

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Guys, forget I said "technique." It's moot for this thread, really. My only point was that you don't need to keep doing what you've always done when it comes to women, if you were unsatisfied with your results. That's the point of this and many other sites out there. It's great that many of you have a system that works, but a lot of guys come here with more questions than answers, and I was referring to them.

As for IL, it's better to go with the flow than against it. It's too much work to change someone's mind when you can move on to the next one. But the initial IL isn't static, and depends largely on how you carry yourself, which again, is what this site is all about. There are plenty of variables of the self you can control. You can't control how someone else will feel, of course. But it's a fact that any encounter will go differently based on the different ways you carry yourself and react to others. And yes, you do have to interact and react, and nexting, ignoring, and being ambivalent qualify as reactions. Not dealing with low IL women is something that, as AS said, a lot of guys would do well to learn.
 

HankHill

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Spinning plates can be whatever you want it to be. It doesn't mean you have to have sex with multiple women who are also sleeping around. For you, it can simply mean continuously meeting other women for drinks, dates and keeping your options open.

The reason for this is because it is often not ideal for a man to forgo dating other women from the moment he secures a second date with any one of them. The first few months of dating is always going to be a "honeymoon" stage where everyone is on their best behavior, best foot forward, etc. The true nature of a person usually doesn't come to light until several months in, at least. It can be during this time that you may notice, for example, a woman is pretty bad about money management, or something along those lines.

However, after devoting the last 3 months to this woman, a man is more likely going to overlook these things to some extent rather than cut it off with her in better judgement for the sake of his own long term well being. At that point, a man is more likely to continue seeing this woman rather than opt for the alternative: breaking things off to face complete loneliness (due to not meeting other women) to avoid the inevitable problem of that horrendous financial responsibility that may not even be a problem you're dealing with at the moment. A lot of guys will choose to stay instead, because things may be ok for the time being, even when knowing damn well that ugly problem is coming for them down the road.

Bad decisions made just to avoid loneliness....
OK, makes sense. However, I get the impression that spinning plates was the recommended perpetual way of life. Personally speaking, I can see myself spinning plates on a short term basis until I feel attached to someone. For me sex alone isn't enough to feel fully content. I want to actually experience life with someone I feel close to, share my thoughts, life moments, etc with. When I'm old and unable to even have sex I still want to go on walks with someone, share a meal with someone, watch TV with someone rather than living a lonely life. So how do those who spin plates forever see the later years playing out? Do you eventually settle down with someone or no?

Looking back I've always kept my options open initially but after a few months as dating eventually turns into a relationship it's next to impossible to keep dating other women for multiple reasons as I mentioned before and if you could pull it off it's cheating at that point from the perspective of your main squeeze and how long do you keep that up 3 mos, 6 mos, 2 yrs?
 

logicallefty

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This is what I believe most of the "players" on here are doing. Having sex with girls who are also with other guys.
No different than married guys. They too are having sex with girls who are also with other guys. They just don’t know it.
 

Atom Smasher

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No different than married guys. They too are having sex with girls who are also with other guys. They just don’t know it.
Very well said, my friend.

And even if not physically, then surely emotionally.
 

Atom Smasher

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Is "smiling at you" the only IOI you can think of?

After that, I would assume just escalate asap (within reason) so they know you're not a boring waste of their time.
No. Read my original post again.
 
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