Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

80% of our problems with women would disappear if we would just...

Atom Smasher

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As I've read the forum over the years and seen all the angst and strife regarding women, one thing become crystal clear to me:

The bulk of this unnecessary suffering is due to the fact that most of you go after Low Interest women. Time after time, year after year I see men chasing women who have shown either zero, or low interest in them. You are trying to create something out of nothing, and it is very rare that a woman will turn around and be attracted to you after relenting and going out with you on either a pity date or a date where she has no investment in you.

I propose you take after your dear old Uncle Atom and do the following: Learn how to identify women's interest in you. A woman will give off subtle and not-so-subtle indicators as they interact with you, or are in your presence.

Remember, while most women can become universally attractive with the aid of makeup, clothing, etc., men cannot do the same. A man will only ever appeal to a subset of women. Within that subset of women who are attracted to you, is where the techniques come in and work 95% of the time.

When you go after women who have already covertly invited you, you have to be pretty bad to screw up a virtually sure thing.

I won't get into all the "Indicators of Interest" in this thread, but I will mention a few. Men are notoriously bad at recognizing when a woman is attracted to them. Even though (in her covert verbal language and body language) she is practically screaming out that she likes you, those indicators go right over your head.

Wise is the man who really gets down the subtle indicators that almost guarantee your success. Some examples:

When a woman is smiling at you, that's a huge indicator. Most women will not smile at a man she is neutral about or feels creeped-out by. If she is smiling at you in your presence, consider that a sign of attraction. If she is attracted, she will light up when you appear in her presence. When she keeps on looking at you from afar, she is intrigued by you. When she looks and smiles, that's an open invitation. You already have her in the bag. When she laughs at your jokes, she is most definitely attracted.

After that, light, breezy, fun conversation will lock her in.

The trick is to establish that she is attracted to you before you ask her for a date. By doing so, you will virtually eliminate rejection. This is a form of qualifying. Soften the target and qualify a stranger before getting to asking her for a date. I can honestly say I've never once been rejected after coming to this realization.

Instead of trying to impress a woman and hoping for the best, pre-qualify her by establishing certainty that she is already attracted. I'm convinced that in my earlier life, while I thought I was completely unattractive, there were plenty of women who telegraphed that they were interested, but that communication simply flew right over my head. IMO the best skill a man can learn, when it comes to game, is recognizing the signals that a women puts out.

My examples above are only the tip of the iceberg. There are loads of signals an interested woman puts out. The main signal is where she facilitates the continuing of a conversation. If her answers are short and polite, and she doesn't invest, eject and find a woman who is actually interested. An interested woman will facilitate continued conversation.

The older you get, the easier it is to read the signals and intuit that a woman is interested. Learning this starts out as mechanical (but is still reliable), but the art evolves into intuitive knowledge.

My advice to all you young bucks is to pre-qualify her for interest. Your dismal success rate will skyrocket to close to 100%. Start to open your eyes to day-to-day indicators of interest, and you will be surprised. You're likely letting many sure-fire prospects slip right through your fingers because of lack of awareness.

Finally, the single best thing you can do to massively increase the number of women who are interested in you upon first sight: Neat clothing and nice, clean footwear. This tells her you're a man who has his act together. Your clothing doesn't have to be expensive... Just well-fitting and clean. Iron your shirts.

Here's what she looks at in order:
1) Your face
2) Your eyes and sometimes your teeth
3) Your shoes

Yes, I said your shoes. Women weigh your footwear extremely heavily in their assessment of you. By these criteria she will either decide to invite you with the signs that you need to learn to recognize, or she will close herself off to you.

Why try to construct attraction (a futile endeavor involving monkey dancing to try to impress her), when you can be 100% sure of interest on her part? Remember that you, as a man, can only appeal to a subset of women, although we tend to think that there is something wrong with us of we are not found universally attractive. You will only appeal to 20 to 30% of women. It's simply numbers and percentages. Identify that 20%, and watch what happens to your success rate.

If you find yourself pining away over a woman, wondering "Does she like me or not?", you are suffering needlessly. Let me tell, you the answer to that question is, "Not".

A woman who is attracted to you will move mountains to see you and relate to you.
 

corrector

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It sounds like if you are a Chad then 80% of your problems will disappear, otherwise you won't get that type of interest in the first place. It boils down to LMS. So if your LOOKS are not there to generate any of that type of interest then you have to opt out or be like richardthefrog.
 

jaymbrs

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I appreciate the time you put in on this post but I disagree with your notion that most men go after low interest women. Most men go after a woman who appears interested. Then come on here to either find out how to keep her interested or where they went wrong to lose the interest. Very rarely do I see men asking for help in getting women that have no interest in them from the get go.
 

Atom Smasher

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Generally a man's looks will appeal to about 20 to 30%. Learn to identify those and you can't go wrong. Men don't understand this principle because they think it's "all or nothing". If they don't generate attraction to the majority of women, they think they are universally unattractive. They need to understand they will only be attractive to a percentage of women and concentrate on them, as they will give off indicators.
 

HankHill

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Two schools of thoughts, one is dating women that have a high IL in you already. If we did that then we don't need this forum or outside help because how can you screw that up? The second school of thought is to increase the low IL to a higher IL over time. This is what most of us non Chads need in reality unless we want to date at the bottom of the dating pool. There are definitely ways to increase the IL in a woman. Doesn't work on all and doesn't work everytime but if you like her enough then you should try it. Just my 2cents.
 

Atom Smasher

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I appreciate the time you put in on this post but I disagree with your notion that most men go after low interest women. Most men go after a woman who appears interested. Then come on here to either find out how to keep her interested or where they went wrong to lose the interest. Very rarely do I see men asking for help in getting women that have no interest in them from the get go.
Part of my point is that men need to learn to differentiate between women who "appear" interested and those who actually are interested.

Most men don't even know it's possible to make that differentiation and therefor they go after LI women. Men need to leave behind imaginary attraction and learn the indicators of authentic attraction. If I was able to do it, almost anybody is. Let's get out of the "Let's hope for the best" mindset and enter into the world of awareness and certainty based upon that learned skill.
 

mrgoodstuff

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As I've read the forum over the years and seen all the angst and strife regarding women, one thing become crystal clear to me:

The bulk of this unnecessary suffering is due to the fact that most of you go after Low Interest women. Time after time, year after year I see men chasing women who have shown either zero, or low interest in them. You are trying to create something out of nothing, and it is very rare that a woman will turn around and be attracted to you after relenting and going out with you on either a pity date or a date where she has no investment in you.

I propose you take after your dear old Uncle Atom and do the following: Learn how to identify women's interest in you. A woman will give off subtle and not-so-subtle indicators as they interact with you, or are in your presence.

Remember, while most women can become universally attractive with the aid of makeup, clothing, etc., men cannot do the same. A man will only ever appeal to a subset of women. Within that subset of women who are attracted to you, is where the techniques come in and work 95% of the time.

When you go after women who have already covertly invited you, you have to be pretty bad to screw up a virtually sure thing.

I won't get into all the "Indicators of Interest" in this thread, but I will mention a few. Men are notoriously bad at recognizing when a woman is attracted to them. Even though (in her covert verbal language and body language) she is practically screaming out that she likes you, those indicators go right over your head.

Wise is the man who really gets down the subtle indicators that almost guarantee your success. Some examples:

When a woman is smiling at you, that's a huge indicator. Most women will not smile at a man she is neutral about or feels creeped-out by. If she is smiling at you in your presence, consider that a sign of attraction. If she is attracted, she will light up when you appear in her presence. When she keeps on looking at you from afar, she is intrigued by you. When she looks and smiles, that's an open invitation. You already have her in the bag. When she laughs at your jokes, she is most definitely attracted.

After that, light, breezy, fun conversation will lock her in.

The trick is to establish that she is attracted to you before you ask her for a date. By doing so, you will virtually eliminate rejection. This is a form of qualifying. Soften the target and qualify a stranger before getting to asking her for a date. I can honestly say I've never once been rejected after coming to this realization.

Instead of trying to impress a woman and hoping for the best, pre-qualify her by establishing certainty that she is already attracted. I'm convinced that in my earlier life, while I thought I was completely unattractive, there were plenty of women who telegraphed that they were interested, but that communication simply flew right over my head. IMO the best skill a man can learn, when it comes to game, is recognizing the signals that a women puts out.

My examples above are only the tip of the iceberg. There are loads of signals an interested woman puts out. The main signal is where she facilitates the continuing of a conversation. If her answers are short and polite, and she doesn't invest, eject and find a woman who is actually interested. An interested woman will facilitate continued conversation.

The older you get, the easier it is to read the signals and intuit that a woman is interested. Learning this starts out as mechanical (but is still reliable), but the art evolves into intuitive knowledge.

My advice to all you young bucks is to pre-qualify her for interest. Your dismal success rate will skyrocket to close to 100%. Start to open your eyes to day-to-day indicators of interest, and you will be surprised. You're likely letting many sure-fire prospects slip right through your fingers because of lack of awareness.

Finally, the single best thing you can do to massively increase the number of women who are interested in you upon first sight: Neat clothing and nice, clean footwear. This tells her you're a man who has his act together. Your clothing doesn't have to be expensive... Just well-fitting and clean. Iron your shirts.

Here's what she looks at in order:
1) Your face
2) Your eyes and sometimes your teeth
3) Your shoes

Yes, I said your shoes. Women weigh your footwear extremely heavily in their assessment of you. By these criteria she will either decide to invite you with the signs that you need to learn to recognize, or she will close herself off to you.

Why try to construct attraction (a futile endeavor involving monkey dancing to try to impress her), when you can be 100% sure of interest on her part? Remember that you, as a man, can only appeal to a subset of women, although we tend to think that there is something wrong with us of we are not found universally attractive. You will only appeal to 20 to 30% of women. It's simply numbers and percentages. Identify that 20%, and watch what happens to your success rate.

If you find yourself pining away over a woman, wondering "Does she like me or not?", you are suffering needlessly. Let me tell, you the answer to that question is, "Not".

A woman who is attracted to you will move mountains to see you and relate to you.
The clothing choices add to the swag, masculinity, attractiveness and candy aspect of you. I'm not a pro at it, but I see different colors give a different vibe and affect the viewers attitude.
 

mrgoodstuff

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Part of my point is that men need to learn to differentiate between women who "appear" interested and those who actually are interested.

Most men don't even know it's possible to make that differentiation and therefor they go after LI women. Men need to leave behind imaginary attraction and learn the indicators of authentic attraction. If I was able to do it, almost anybody is. Let's get out of the "Let's hope for the best" mindset and enter into the world of awareness and certainty based upon that learned skill.
Chasing uninterested babes is a sure fire way to tank your confidence. If that's a majority of your female attention you will be attractive to no one.

This is why it's crucial to engage and penetrate highly interested babes. It raise your attractiveness in general to everyone.
 

Atom Smasher

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Two schools of thoughts, one is dating women that have a high IL in you already. If we did that then we don't need this forum or outside help because how can you screw that up? The second school of thought is to increase the low IL to a higher IL over time. This is what most of us non Chads need in reality unless we want to date at the bottom of the dating pool. There are definitely ways to increase the IL in a woman. Doesn't work on all and doesn't work everytime but if you like her enough then you should try it. Just my 2cents.
Men screw that up all the time. On a daily basis I read new posts how a man went out on a date with a seemingly high interest level girl and they crashed and burned. That's where the "techniques" we know about come in, calibrated to his own personality.

Men shouldn't waste their valuable time working on increasing IL. It should take one and ONLY one conversation to establish interest.
 

Atom Smasher

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The clothing choices add to the swag, masculinity, attractiveness and candy aspect of you. I'm not a pro at it, but I see different colors give a different vibe and affect the viewers attitude.
Very definitely. It's important to remember that women usually simply look for neatness and a little bit of a sense of style. All one needs to do is look around at the "competition". Men in the US at least have no idea how to present themselves in an appealing way.
 

Atom Smasher

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Chasing uninterested babes is a sure fire way to tank your confidence. If that's a majority of your female attention you will be attractive to no one.

This is why it's crucial to engage and penetrate highly interested babes. It raise your attractiveness in general to everyone.
I cringe at all the times in my past when I tried to generate interest in women. My confidence was in the toilet. I was simply going after the wrong women.

My problems with attracting women was completely fixed when I realized that I will only appeal to a certain percentage of women, nowhere near 100%, and I set my attention on learning the subtle Indicators of Interest that so often fly right over our heads.

It's a learned art, gentlemen.
 

HankHill

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Men screw that up all the time. On a daily basis I read new posts how a man went out on a date with a seemingly high interest level girl and they crashed and burned. That's where the "techniques" we know about come in, calibrated to his own personality.

Men shouldn't waste their valuable time working on increasing IL. It should take one and ONLY one conversation to establish interest.
They screw that up because the woman's interest level wasn't that high. That's my point, with a high IL woman you can screw up and she'll help you out. However, women that most of us guys find attractive are typically going to have a mediocre interest level to begin with.
 

Atom Smasher

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It's a complicated issue. It's difficult to tell what healthy high interest is in between all the love bombing from rebounding and cluster b women.
Difficult at first, but awareness and experience make it easier and easier.

You'll always find what you're looking for. If a man accepts that he cannot be universally attractive to the opposite sex, like women can be, he can start looking for those subtle signs of interest and he will find them. It's all about study of what the signs are in the first place, and then honing the skill of detecting them in RL. He will start to think, "Crap, I never knew there were so many women giving me positive signals".

We men are by nature exceedingly bad at detecting covert communication, but we have a massive potential for detecting and understanding them once we decide to learn it.
 

corrector

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Hankhill nailed it right on and LARaider85 also gets this. Normally if you get that type of interest it's from women you are not attracted to who are cratered-SMV's, single mom's, crazies, or something is wrong with them which is why they are love-bombing everyone who looks like an easy mark to them who isn't getting that level of attention. How many non-Chads really get a HEALTHY dose IOI from even 20-30% of non-cratered SMV chick? You are also missing the other point is IL is never fixed. Someone can be 99% interest one day and then 10% interest at a later date. That's why people get married and divorced. If the IL is high enough to get married, but a bump happens down the road and the IL is gone. You still have a problem since you can't guage the EVENTUAL IL.
 

Atom Smasher

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They screw that up because the woman's interest level wasn't that high. That's my point, with a high IL woman you can screw up and she'll help you out. However, women that most of us guys find attractive are typically going to be have a mediocre interest level to begin with.
There is some truth to what you say, but I would say that I've seen lots of cases where the guy had it in the bag, but he turned her off on the date for various reasons. He made her feel one way during initial contact, but his insecurities or miscalibration blew it for him on a prolonged date.

Thee is no doubt that most women today are very fickle and can change at the drop of a hat, but why not start with the most qualified "prospects" is my point. Mediocre interest level can and should be either ramped up to high IL, or she should be dumped. Men should never waste their time trying to do so. It simply takes a couple of conversations to either establish high IL or to decide to move on to better fishing.
 
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mrgoodstuff

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I cringe at all the times in my past when I tried to generate interest in women. My confidence was in the toilet. I was simply going after the wrong women.

My problems with attracting women was completely fixed when I realized that I will only appeal to a certain percentage of women, nowhere near 100%, and I set my attention on learning the subtle Indicators of Interest that so often fly right over our heads.

It's a learned art, gentlemen.
Mine was about 20-30% when I'm at my peak and up to 50% will share good energy with conversation and banter.
 

HankHill

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Chasing uninterested babes is a sure fire way to tank your confidence. If that's a majority of your female attention you will be attractive to no one.

This is why it's crucial to engage and penetrate highly interested babes. It raise your attractiveness in general to everyone.
Agreed on not wasting time on uninterested babes. Examples of an uninterested/mediocre/high IL babes would be:

Uninterested babe:
You: Hi I'm Joe
Her: I have a boyfriend

You: I like your boots
Her: Get lost

Whereas a mediocre IL woman would be:

You: Hi I'm Joe
Her: Hi...I'm Jen.

A high IL woman would be:

You: Hi I'm Joe
Her: Hey Joe, I'm Jen. What brings you here? or How's your day going? etc
 

Atom Smasher

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Hankhill nailed it right on and LARaider85 also gets this. Normally if you get that type of interest it's from women you are not attracted to who are cratered-SMV's, single mom's, crazies, or something is wrong with them which is why they are love-bombing everyone who looks like an easy mark to them who isn't getting that level of attention. How many non-Chads really get a HEALTHY dose IOI from even 20-30% of non-cratered SMV chick? You are also missing the other point is IL is never fixed. Someone can be 99% interest one day and then 10% interest at a later date. That's why people get married and divorced. If the IL is high enough to get married, but a bump happens down the road and the IL is gone. You still have a problem since you can't guage the EVENTUAL IL.
That may be your normal. It's certainly not mine. I would respectfully suggest that you could be missing the signals from healthier women. It is also up to a man to learn to detect and eliminate the crazies.

Notice how often I use the word, "learn". None of this comes naturally.

I certainly understand about women of today's fluctuating IL. They're all bat sh!t crazy. The point isn't about finding non-insane women. It's about learning to recognize the less insane, attracted ones and spending your time only on them. When you've established a relationship with a woman who is less insane than her peers, and her IL goes down, so should yours. Women are cats. When they back off, so do you. When they are affectionate, you reward them.

I would say a man shouldn't worry too much about her eventual IL. We can only work with what we have today. A man with tight game will preserve high IL as far as is possible. How many men have tight game? Not many.
 

Atom Smasher

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Agreed on not wasting time on uninterested babes. Examples of an uninterested/mediocre/high IL babes would be:

Uninterested babe:
You: Hi I'm Joe
Her: I have a boyfriend

You: I like your boots
Her: Get lost

Whereas a mediocre IL woman would be:

You: Hi I'm Joe
Her: Hi...I'm Jen.

A high IL woman would be:

You: Hi I'm Joe
Her: Hey Joe, I'm Jen. What brings you here? or How's your day going? etc
Of course I would only work on the last one you mention. But of course there is a lot more involved than the verbal aspect. Body language holds equal weight in evaluating whether or not she's worth your while. In fact, it probably holds more weight than the verbal.
 

HankHill

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That may be your normal. It's certainly not mine. I would respectfully suggest that you could be missing the signals from healthier women. It is also up to a man to learn to detect and eliminate the crazies.

Notice how often I use the word, "learn". None of this comes naturally.

I certainly understand about women of today's fluctuating IL. They're all bat sh!t crazy. The point isn't about finding non-insane women. It's about learning to recognize the less insane, attracted ones and spending your time only on them. When you've established a relationship with a woman who is less insane than her peers, and her IL goes down, so should yours. Women are cats. When they back off, so do you. When they are affectionate, you reward them.

I would say a man shouldn't worry too much about her eventual IL. We can only work with what we have today. A man with tight game will preserve high IL as far as is possible. How many men have tight game? Not many.
I can agree with all that. What i need is help with online dating because in my life there are rarely any opportunities for real life connections, I work, have kids- their schools, all my friends are couples, families etc. So bottom line is for me OLD is the only practical choice but most women even in their mid 40s have crazy high expectations. I routinely read profiles of 40+ women 'looking for kids and marriage, if your'e done with that swipe left'. Or stuff like 'swipe left if you're not <this>, <that>, <and this>, <oh and this too>, <btw, we won't get along if you're this>'. I'm an educated, successful person, I have tons of hobbies, I'm avg to above avg looks with a slim body but I rarely get meaningful likes back. Meaningful meaning something that goes beyond a few exchanges. I think in this hyper instant gratification world both men and women are easily distracted by the next shiny object and people are not willing to invest anything into anyone. It's the conclusion I'm coming to. Even 5yrs ago the dating game wasn't this tough.
 
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