35 and I've Finally Hit Rockbottom in Dating

Smartone84

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Year after year after year has gone by. Millions of swipes. Thousands of messages. Thousands of dollars. Seemingly endless dates. Very few flings. Zero legitimate relationships. Oh, and quite a few rounds of being legitimately hurt/devastated. This has been my life of dating from the age of around 28. And now, seven years later I feel I've finally come to the end. A mental rockbottom. Match, Okcupid, Bumble, Tinder, Happn, even eHarmony. You name it, I've tried it. I've super liked, I've super swiped, I've had my friends awkwardly take new photos of me, and I've put myself out there in what is now the new normal of modern day dating to the point where being 'burnt out' would be the understatement of my entire 35 years on planet Earth. I've (not so simply) been chewed up, spit out, then chewed up again and thrown into the darkest back alleys of life by the world that is online dating. I live in a suburb about 40 minutes outside of New York City, which in general has played a huge part in this story. I truly believe and am sure many would agree that the superficial and materialness is and always has been on another level here. While I won't go into details, the simple fact that I don't actually live or at least WORK in Manhattan or very close to it is a turnoff by city girls. Not that I'd prefer one of these superficial traveling every month planning my next city to live in NYC girls, but yeah, just making a point. While about half of my dates have actually been with NYC women, half have been in the suburbs.

Let me just say that I do consider myself a relatively (average) attractive (prob SMV 5) white male, have a great job with great benefits, a pension, nice car, nice clothes, I'm well groomed, etc, And while I do believe there are a good amount of circumstances aside from not living in NYC that have lead to me being in this spot, nothing in my wildest dreams even 3 years ago could have predicted I would still be here. I was never one of these clowns who puts up shirtless pics on their profiles and certainly not the guy who messages my matches talking dirty/asking if they want sex straight up. I've wanted a relationship. For many years now. Wanted someone to care for and to treat right. Someone to just connect with and build a life with. Yes there are "billions of women in this world", but in my world that doesn't f-cking matter. I've watched most of my entire friends circle and then some not only meet significant others, but get married and now have kids as well. Kids that weren't even conceived yet when I was still getting numbers from random girls and rejecting your typical obese sized OLD whales that would message me "Hey". Do I still have a few buddies who are single? Sure. But believe me when I tell you they don't care.

In my seven years of online dating, with very few real breaks in between, I have gained the unfortunate distinction of learning TWO things:

1) 97% of online dating is a cesspool of women I would never in a million years want to legitimately date.
*60% of women on OLD are either minorities, beach whales, or are completely unattractive in some way shape or form. What me and my friends have often referred to as "leftovers", so to speak. 38% are smoking hot (9s or 10s) or just hot girls (7s or 8s), usually whacked to a some form of a degree, usually mostly looking for attention with their filtered up photos that they argued with their friend to take of them. These are girls that you will never realistically have unless you're a Brad Pitt look alike with a 5 series in the garage. Then there are the 2% of women that are the needles in haystacks, though realistically this % is probably way less. The ones that you would realistically date. The ones you could see yourself taking home to mom or starting something with. Ones you click with. While probably divorced by this point these rarities are at least down to Earth enough to a point they won't ghost you after a first date they didn't like even if you may have. See after 30, or really even after 28/29 I'd say, at least in New York, for the most part, there is simply almost no such thing as a normal level headed attractive woman. And if she IS normal she will either have baggage up the wazoo to an unhealthy level or will have some other guys kid running around for you to worry about.

2) Online dating is an uphill battle from the start for guys under the range of around SMV7. Not only is it more difficult from a general standpoint of not being noticed more when girls are browsing, apps like Bumble and Tinder legitimately show your profile LESS if you are initially not a "hot commodity" that's getting swiped right on all the time. Since there are so many men on these sites to begin with, only so many can be pushed to the top of the list of being shown, and lord knows those aren't going to be bums or even average guys like me. I can go for DAYS without getting a single Match on bumble now, or weeks without getting a response from someone halfway decent on other sites. With regards to actual dating, the days of pre OLD asking a woman out only having to worry about the 2-3 other guys she might be talking to are gone. Put a girl who's at least a SMV6 on one of these sites with halfway decent photos, and after your date she's still going home to 25 matches, just for that DAY, while you go home to one, two if you're lucky.

This brings me to my final point... Why in seven years have I not been able to land one of the 2%? Well part of me would say I don't know. The other part would tell you the few reasons I believe have worked against me in this superficial human shopping world we call online dating...

1) I don't have a college degree - This one is pretty simple. In a world and time where not having a college degree is taboo, it's well, taboo for me saying I don't have jack, regardless of the decent paying job, and great benefits, I might have. Women in general and, again, especially in an area like NYC, are IMO legitimately wired to want a man who makes great money, can move up in the world, and support them. Once their silent dream of being a stay home at home mom is out the window, a point is already deducted. Add on the fact that the man might not have the resources to definitely be management one day and you're lucky you even get a second date sometimes.

2) I don't identify with any cultural background - I'm a mix of a bunch of backgrounds, (European Jewish, Italian, Polish, etc) and not a single one do I care about nor identify with. People, especially in a diverse area such as New York, don't like to hear this. They like to hear about your big loud Sunday family dinners or that time you and your whole Irish family celebrated St. Patty's day, etc. Simply put, people feel as if they connect more and better with someone of a similar background.

3) I don't identify with any religion - I grew up celebrating both Christmas and Hanukkah. My family has connections to both religions. I never had a bar mitzvah or a confirmation. You'd think things like this which at this point are 22 years out would never be a thing, but you'd be shocked at just how many times they would come up. But that aside, like #2 women and people in general can connect and like someone who they can see having a big Christmas experience with, and not just someone who tells them I go to my Aunts for Christmas day.

4) My appearance. While like I said above I do consider myself relatively attractive, I am most certainly not what most girls would say is 'hot'. I'm extremely thin for my height (6'2), have a slightly receding hairline, and in even though I'm no beta by any means, I don't come off as the most masculine guy in the world. I personally am not ashamed nor am I insecure about my appearance, but on dates I tend to (sometimes) wear long sleeves at first to cover my thin arms, but it doesn't really matter since in general I am very thin. I've been this way my entire life. Genetics.

So there you have it, in a very small nutshell. Sorry for the long post, but I guess I'm just looking for everyone's 2 cents on this gloomy Sunday morning. Perhaps there are others out there similar to me. Perhaps there is someone out there who can give me that golden piece of advice that will bring me up.
 
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Ricky

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I have been married for 10 years and am aware of how dramatically the dating scene has changed. It seems alot of my coworkers meet people at work or through work and i can understand the issues at work with that. The rest seem to meet via swiping right...

I suggest you pick a month and try to talk to 100 women in person. From small conversations in an elevator to the subway etc. Its still possible to meet people offline and you may stick out as more memorable. With these 100 women you talk with them with no expectations and if you can close for a number or more thats great.
 
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And now, seven years later I feel I've finally come to the end.
...
I live in a suburb about 40 minutes outside of New York City, which in general has played a huge part in this story. I truly believe and am sure many would agree that the superficial and materialness is and always has been on another level here. While I won't go into details, the simple fact that I don't actually live or at least WORK in Manhattan or very close to it is a turnoff by city girls.
Hear you on the geography, it sucks. When my Dad Duty days are finished (or at least drastically changed by the empty nest in four years) I am definitely moving somewhere more culturally and socially rewarding.

OLD has been an utter loser for the past year for me. Fortunately I haven't invested a ton of actual time into it. More been a source of distraction and frustration, punctuated by the occasional date that ranges from a waste of time to a disaster.

But I am finally to the point where I'm going to make some incremental changes. It's a combination of MGTOW, DGAF, and Day Game:
  • I recently was emailed an invite by a recruiter to attend a local technical group (Node.JS for us geeks). Just get myself out of the house once a month and at the very least network with some local professionals and get a sense of how other shops work. I freelance and tend to be pretty isolated, so this will be a good thing.
  • Meetup.com then showed me other groups, so I joined about five of them, a mix of professional and social groups.
  • My next meetup will be a Piano Karaoke thing. I also have a music degree and it will be interesting to mingle with that crowd again. Maybe eventually make enough of an impression and network to the point where I can use my piano skills in my free time.
  • I've went to a local Poly Munch last month and plan on hitting up the September one. I've been a year with my poly, part-time GF, and I've now seen enough to be serious about putting my toe into that community to see how it feels. At the very least it will be a positive social exercise, even if nothing directly comes of it.
So... and this is not a criticism... imagine where you might be if those past seven years have been spent investing yourself into enriching activities that also have a social component? You'd be no worse, even if the social part had no payoff. But you would be doing (hopefully) fulfilling things, surrounded by like-minded people. While you still may have been frustrated by a case of slim-pickings in those social circles, you would at least not be drowning in the toxicity-by-osmosis that OLD tends to do to a guy, given enough time.

This is the mindset I'm trying to cultivate within myself. Every time I just get myself out there in an Actual Activity(tm), I find it to have been worth my while.
 

sosousage

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1. dont use tinder.

2. meet girls.

3. hope theres a girl who doesnt know how much power internet and tinder gives her. aim for antisocial shy girls
 

Poonani Maker

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I suggest you pick a month and try to talk to 100 women in person. From small conversations in an elevator to the subway etc. Its still possible to meet people offline and you may stick out as more memorable. With these 100 women you talk with them with no expectations and if you can close for a number or more thats great.
Another place is where you go Every week, um to buy rations for the week ahead. There's always the same or New girls checking you out and they must be friendly. Still, I know as well as the OP, it's hard. I'm almost 10 years older than the OP, still look "hot" but this is my last leg seriously, but I'll still "work out" and maintain my health, not let myself go, and Read, read, read, read everything I can read. Don't spread yourself too thin, but have branches of study/improvement whether is "Game," history, sci-fi, biographies, learning a different language (hard, but doable for when you want to visit out of the states to preview the women There).

I have a similar status as the OP though probably a 7, once 8 in looks (meaning I could pull based solely off of looks alone since youth), I have the pension the OP has, the better than average salary, the benefits, everything a female should WANT, eh? I guess my problem is not blurting out or advertising my stability to girls, seems kinda AND WOULD BE off-putting to girls (they do not like bragging! I've tried it). I mean, if me and a chick were to make babies, the hospital delivery of those "babies" would cost 1000s for most people, but practically ZERO for us, but chicks don't know this cause they don't investigate or care to lift a finger to know that our health would be insured. Girls you see Every day may begin to "investigate" you, thus the work pickups (though highly risky to your peace at work - distracting). Familiarity breeds attraction, doesn't matter the Class of the women you keep bumping into. Apps are HARD to breed familiarity cause you're not there in flesh n' blood, you're infinitely more throwawayable. It's a Coward's way, are all women cowards? no, but... I mean, I wouldn't want to fight Shevchenko in the octagon, or any other viewing distance.

Been reading Darwin and how academics shifted away from Freud a bit. Earnestness is no longer, you are viewed as Naive if you are earnest (think Victorian era/age of "How do you do, Sir?" "Good day" "Tah-tah ole chap" the humbleness, the extreme reciprocal altruism) nowadays. Nobody takes anything Seriously cause some much of our social and real business realm is such a facade or matrix, so people laugh at everything. Architects build up architecture, but it's just more garbage for people to spend more money on imagined value. It's all FAKE.
 
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Snake-eyes

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Dude just take rejection is better than regret. I get your frustration but, at least have a piece of mind that you tried everything in the last couple of years. And you also did the work. Most people now a day don’t even want a put in the work or the time.
Maybe you should considered moving out of the state. At least that’s what I’m doing in the hope of opening better opportunities for my self. Although I do agree with the tinder stuff. Online dating was created to facilitate women’s options on cherry picking the top of the cream men. Don’t feel bad or frustrated, it’s life and it’s part of being a man. Also i would considered letting go of those believes of yours, since they’re not helping you out at moment
 

Smok1nAce

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1) 97% of online dating is a cesspool of women I would never in a million years want to legitimately date.
*60% of women on OLD are either minorities, beach whales, or are completely unattractive in some way shape or form.

1) I don't have a college degree -
Didn't read this wall of emotional, complaining text but, it sound like you have your priorities backwards and need to get with the times. As much as Trump wants to bring us back to the "good old days", its not going to happen, it almost 2020 and 2 things that stand out to me is, your unintelligent (no college degree), your racist (racist always expose themselves) and your blaming everything outside yourself for your own circumstances. Maybe its for the best your left out of the dating pool buddy.

You need a College degree to get anywhere in todays world, HS has become nothing more then a daycare (thank Bush for that) and in todays world being a racist is basically displaying to everyone that your unintelligent (thank Trump for that). You want to be a man women chase, then get with the times.

You spent you whole life so far chasing women and have nothing to show for it, its up to you to turn that around.
 

RickTheToad

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Year after year after year has gone by. Millions of swipes. Thousands of messages. Thousands of dollars. Seemingly endless dates. Very few flings. Zero legitimate relationships. Oh, and quite a few rounds of being legitimately hurt/devastated. This has been my life of dating from the age of around 28. And now, seven years later I feel I've finally come to the end. A mental rockbottom. Match, Okcupid, Bumble, Tinder, Happn, even eHarmony. You name it, I've tried it. I've super liked, I've super swiped, I've had my friends awkwardly take new photos of me, and I've put myself out there in what is now the new normal of modern day dating to the point where being 'burnt out' would be the understatement of my entire 35 years on planet Earth. I've (not so simply) been chewed up, spit out, then chewed up again and thrown into the darkest back alleys of life by the world that is online dating. I live in a suburb about 40 minutes outside of New York City, which in general has played a huge part in this story. I truly believe and am sure many would agree that the superficial and materialness is and always has been on another level here. While I won't go into details, the simple fact that I don't actually live or at least WORK in Manhattan or very close to it is a turnoff by city girls. Not that I'd prefer one of these superficial traveling every month planning my next city to live in NYC girls, but yeah, just making a point. While about half of my dates have actually been with NYC women, half have been in the suburbs.

Let me just say that I do consider myself a relatively (average) attractive (prob SMV 5) white male, have a great job with great benefits, a pension, nice car, nice clothes, I'm well groomed, etc, And while I do believe there are a good amount of circumstances aside from not living in NYC that have lead to me being in this spot, nothing in my wildest dreams even 3 years ago could have predicted I would still be here. I was never one of these clowns who puts up shirtless pics on their profiles and certainly not the guy who messages my matches talking dirty/asking if they want sex straight up. I've wanted a relationship. For many years now. Wanted someone to care for and to treat right. Someone to just connect with and build a life with. Yes there are "billions of women in this world", but in my world that doesn't f-cking matter. I've watched most of my entire friends circle and then some not only meet significant others, but get married and now have kids as well. Kids that weren't even conceived yet when I was still getting numbers from random girls and rejecting your typical obese sized OLD whales that would message me "Hey". Do I still have a few buddies who are single? Sure. But believe me when I tell you they don't care.

In my seven years of online dating, with very few real breaks in between, I have gained the unfortunate distinction of learning TWO things:

1) 97% of online dating is a cesspool of women I would never in a million years want to legitimately date.
*60% of women on OLD are either minorities, beach whales, or are completely unattractive in some way shape or form. What me and my friends have often referred to as "leftovers", so to speak. 38% are smoking hot (9s or 10s) or just hot girls (7s or 8s), usually whacked to a some form of a degree, usually mostly looking for attention with their filtered up photos that they argued with their friend to take of them. These are girls that you will never realistically have unless you're a Brad Pitt look alike with a 5 series in the garage. Then there are the 2% of women that are the needles in haystacks, though realistically this % is probably way less. The ones that you would realistically date. The ones you could see yourself taking home to mom or starting something with. Ones you click with. While probably divorced by this point these rarities are at least down to Earth enough to a point they won't ghost you after a first date they didn't like even if you may have. See after 30, or really even after 28/29 I'd say, at least in New York, for the most part, there is simply almost no such thing as a normal level headed attractive woman. And if she IS normal she will either have baggage up the wazoo to an unhealthy level or will have some other guys kid running around for you to worry about.

2) Online dating is an uphill battle from the start for guys under the range of around SMV7. Not only is it more difficult from a general standpoint of not being noticed more when girls are browsing, apps like Bumble and Tinder legitimately show your profile LESS if you are initially not a "hot commodity" that's getting swiped right on all the time. Since there are so many men on these sites to begin with, only so many can be pushed to the top of the list of being shown, and lord knows those aren't going to be bums or even average guys like me. I can go for DAYS without getting a single Match on bumble now, or weeks without getting a response from someone halfway decent on other sites. With regards to actual dating, the days of pre OLD asking a woman out only having to worry about the 2-3 other guys she might be talking to are gone. Put a girl who's at least a SMV6 on one of these sites with halfway decent photos, and after your date she's still going home to 25 matches, just for that DAY, while you go home to one, two if you're lucky.

This brings me to my final point... Why in seven years have I not been able to land one of the 2%? Well part of me would say I don't know. The other part would tell you the few reasons I believe have worked against me in this superficial human shopping world we call online dating...

1) I don't have a college degree - This one is pretty simple. In a world and time where not having a college degree is taboo, it's well, taboo for me saying I don't have jack, regardless of the decent paying job, and great benefits, I might have. Women in general and, again, especially in an area like NYC, are IMO legitimately wired to want a man who makes great money, can move up in the world, and support them. Once their silent dream of being a stay home at home mom is out the window, a point is already deducted. Add on the fact that the man might not have the resources to definitely be management one day and you're lucky you even get a second date sometimes.

2) I don't identify with any cultural background - I'm a mix of a bunch of backgrounds, (European Jewish, Italian, Polish, etc) and not a single one do I care about nor identify with. People, especially in a diverse area such as New York, don't like to hear this. They like to hear about your big loud Sunday family dinners or that time you and your whole Irish family celebrated St. Patty's day, etc. Simply put, people feel as if they connect more and better with someone of a similar background.

3) I don't identify with any religion - I grew up celebrating both Christmas and Hanukkah. My family has connections to both religions. I never had a bar mitzvah or a confirmation. You'd think things like this which at this point are 22 years out would never be a thing, but you'd be shocked at just how many times they would come up. But that aside, like #2 women and people in general can connect and like someone who they can see having a big Christmas experience with, and not just someone who tells them I go to my Aunts for Christmas day.

4) My appearance. While like I said above I do consider myself relatively attractive, I am most certainly not what most girls would say is 'hot'. I'm extremely thin for my height (6'2), have a slightly receding hairline, and in even though I'm no beta by any means, I don't come off as the most masculine guy in the world. I personally am not ashamed nor am I insecure about my appearance, but on dates I tend to (sometimes) wear long sleeves at first to cover my thin arms, but it doesn't really matter since in general I am very thin. I've been this way my entire life. Genetics.

So there you have it, in a very small nutshell. Sorry for the long post, but I guess I'm just looking for everyone's 2 cents on this gloomy Sunday morning. Perhaps there are others out there similar to me. Perhaps there is someone out there who can give me that golden piece of advice that will bring me up.
A Jew w/o a college degree? Never thought they existed. Are you in Rockland, Westchester or Bergen? You need to work on yourself. There in lies the problem.
 

Smartone84

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Didn't read this wall of emotional, complaining text but, it sound like you have your priorities backwards and need to get with the times. As much as Trump wants to bring us back to the "good old days", its not going to happen, it almost 2020 and 2 things that stand out to me is, your unintelligent (no college degree), your racist (racist always expose themselves) and your blaming everything outside yourself for your own circumstances. Maybe its for the best your left out of the dating pool buddy.
Wow. Again the ignorant fools on this site never fail to amaze me. Just what makes you dare to call me "unintelligent" based on the fact that I don't have a degree? Do you realize that assumption by you is part of the reason people in this country are the way they are today? Judgmental and superficial. Oh, and by the way, it would be you're* unintelligent, not your. But I'm just an uneducated dumba-- , right?

Secondly, if you DID bother to read my entire "wall of emotional text", I'd be curious how you assumed that I'm a "racist". Is it because I simply used the word minorities? Just curious. Bc if you do need me to explain further, the idea behind that is that I'm much more attracted to and would rather end up marrying a white woman for all the obvious innocent reasons, though I have been on plenty of dates with hispanic women. I am anything BUT "racist". Now go ahead and try and turn that around the best you can. Also, for the record I vote Democratic.

You need a College degree to get anywhere in todays world
Interesting because I'm everywhere I want to be except in this one particular area.

Moronic f-ck.

A Jew w/o a college degree? Never thought they existed. Are you in Rockland, Westchester or Bergen? You need to work on yourself. There in lies the problem.
I was offered a great job at a young age, at 20. I took it and I made amazing money for the time. More than any of my friends. Today I am extremely happy with where I ended up professionally. But ok, you're right, a college degree is the problem. Me not being able to tell girls on dates all these years that I graduated from so and so with a Bachelor's is the exact and only reason, I'm sure.
 
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AttackFormation

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Wow. Again the ignorant fools on this site never fail to amaze me. Just what makes you dare to call me "unintelligent" based on the fact that I don't have a degree? Do you realize that assumption by you is part of the reason people in this country are the way they are today? Judgmental and superficial. Oh, and by the way, it would be you're* unintelligent, not your. But I'm just an uneducated dumba-- , right?

Secondly, if you DID bother to read my entire "wall of emotional text", I'd be curious how you assumed that I'm a "racist". Is it because I simply used the word minorities? Just curious. Bc if you do need me to explain further, the idea behind that is that I'm much more attracted to and would rather end up marrying a white woman for all the obvious innocent reasons, though I have been on plenty of dates with hispanic women. I am anything BUT "racist". Now go ahead and try and turn that around the best you can. Also, for the record I vote Democratic.



Interesting because I'm everywhere I want to be except in this one particular area.

Moronic f-ck.



I was offered a great job at a young age, at 20. I took it and I made amazing money for the time. More than any of my friends. Today I am extremely happy with where I ended up professionally. But ok, you're right, a college degree is the problem. Me not being able to tell girls on dates all these years that I graduated from so and so with a Bachelor's is the exact and only reason, I'm sure.
Don't mind smokinace, he is evidently a moron.

Now, your problems that stand out to me are:

- Your looks. This is always going to be the biggest sticker for almost any man. You can't afford to be average, let alone below average in any regard (very thin, receding hairline, or whatever else a guy might be like out of shape). You will want to do what it takes to looksmax to the highest degree you feel you can. Bulk up, fix your posture, fix your hair, get cosmetic treatments like microneedling and PRP for your face, check your hormones to detect low T, and whatever else.

- You want "snow" white women (ie non-latina whites in the american context). The problem with this is that snow whites have been recorded as the pickiest group of women, I could pull out stats to show it with a quick google but cba atm. You may not be able to change what you're attracted to, but it's something you should be mindful of to keep your expectations in line with reality, and should know that opening to women of other phenotypes would probably make dating easier.

- You seem to be using almost exclusively online dating. Online dating has a vast gender imbalance, which is exacerbated by the fact that men initiate, leaving the women with a choice overload from which they may pick only the most exceptional and just use the rest for entertainment, validation and free dinners (by men who are stupid enough to pay them). Remember your looks? online dating exacerbates that, even being above average there is hardly enough - you need to be exceptional. But you are by your own statements, average or below, except for your height. You need to find out how you can make a lifestyle that gets you in contact with women in real life work for you, whether it's daygame or activities, as OLD is just a siren song of wasted energy and neuroticism for most men. It's nothing unique to you at all.
 
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Poonani Maker

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I agree with you about OLD though, it's so fvcking g@y that you'll receive a "mutual match" oh so n' so just liked you and when you click on the link from the email it takes you to nothing or a paywall and you can't even SEE who "mutually matched" you (I guess unless you pay), and it doesn't even show up as you being "viewed" by the same name, so it's a Stop emailing me! if you're not gonna be straight-up with me, the MALE in the equation, they're tryin to dig into our pockets more n' more. I've never paid for Any of em ever!
 

Smartone84

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You seem to be using almost exclusively online dating. Online dating has a vast gender imbalance, which is exacerbated by the fact that men initiate, leaving the women with a choice overload from which they may pick only the most exceptional and just use the rest for entertainment, validation and free dinners (by men who are stupid enough to pay them). You need to find out how you can make a lifestyle that gets you in contact with women in real life work for you, whether it's daygame or activities, as OLD is just a siren song of wasted energy and neuroticism.
Thanks. Of course the obvious answer by many others as well would be to just "get out there" and do things that allow me to meet women somehow someway, but there really aren't many options now are there? At least not in the suburbs. Had I had this been my 20's when I had this "online dating breakdown" and I was still doing all sorts of things left and right with friends lord knows it would be a different ballgame. But not to sound negative at all but, at 35 what am I really going to do? Take a cooking class? Check out book stores? The harsh reality IMO is that it really is tough once you get into your 30's with regards to dating and I'm not the only one in my position. I'm open to suggestions of course but trust me when I say I've been down this type of road before.
 

AttackFormation

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Thanks. Of course the obvious answer by many others as well would be to just "get out there" and do things that allow me to meet women somehow someway, but there really aren't many options now are there? At least not in the suburbs. Had I had this been my 20's when I had this "online dating breakdown" and I was still doing all sorts of things left and right with friends lord knows it would be a different ballgame. But not to sound negative at all but, at 35 what am I really going to do? Take a cooking class? Check out book stores? The harsh reality IMO is that it really is tough once you get into your 30's with regards to dating and I'm not the only one in my position. I'm open to suggestions of course but trust me when I say I've been down this type of road before.
Yeah I don't suggest thinking about doing things you enjoy that have women in them, or just talking to women on the street and being upfront and direct with them, because I think it's a quick and easy magic bullet. It isn't, and there is none. I suggest it because using OLD is worse than getting zero pvssy in reality and just living your life. For most men not only does OLD not do sh!t, but it also makes them neurotic and waste their energy, while if you delete your apps and only live in real life at least you won't constantly have your selfesteem and energy drained while building up frustration. I know it feels like you can always try to message one more girl, swipe for one more day, but that's the thing. The apps are made to be addictive like a slot machine, they're a for profit business that targets men. You have to let go of them. Yes, online dating should be a great way to meet women in theory and I myself would like it to be too, but unfortunately it isn't.

Pretend online dating doesn't exist and then ask yourself how you could meet women in an enjoyable way. Try to let go of your inhibitions, do what you would enjoy and just be upfront with the women when you talk to them.
 
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Poonani Maker

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Thanks. Of course the obvious answer by many others as well would be to just "get out there" and do things that allow me to meet women somehow someway, but there really aren't many options now are there? At least not in the suburbs. Had I had this been my 20's when I had this "online dating breakdown" and I was still doing all sorts of things left and right with friends lord knows it would be a different ballgame. But not to sound negative at all but, at 35 what am I really going to do? Take a cooking class? Check out book stores? The harsh reality IMO is that it really is tough once you get into your 30's with regards to dating and I'm not the only one in my position. I'm open to suggestions of course but trust me when I say I've been down this type of road before.
Our genes will not be passed on to the next generation, it's not our fault. It's contrived Genocide. I'd wager ALL those "apps" we've pecked on are Owned by Jews or those who seek to inflict harm on our RACE.
 

Pandora

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Didn't read this wall of emotional, complaining text but, it sound like you have your priorities backwards and need to get with the times. As much as Trump wants to bring us back to the "good old days", its not going to happen, it almost 2020 and 2 things that stand out to me is, your unintelligent (no college degree), your racist (racist always expose themselves) and your blaming everything outside yourself for your own circumstances. Maybe its for the best your left out of the dating pool buddy.

You need a College degree to get anywhere in todays world, HS has become nothing more then a daycare (thank Bush for that) and in todays world being a racist is basically displaying to everyone that your unintelligent (thank Trump for that). You want to be a man women chase, then get with the times.

You spent you whole life so far chasing women and have nothing to show for it, its up to you to turn that around.
I disagree. A college degree is actually more of a hindrance than an asset these days. You can go to paramedic trade school for 1-2 yrs and make 60k easy. You could become a correctional officer and make 100K your first year with over time. You can do many trade schools that can net you a decent life. Going to college is a risky proposition these days unless you do certain fields. Have you ever heard of the student loan bubble? How don't you know this already? This is RedPill 101.

You also are saying that Trump made Americans stupid? huh? If you were really intelligent you would have figured out that politics is fake. Presidents are puppets. Presidential administrations don't really change the course of the country when it comes to major issues. The country keeps the same trajectory no matter what president is in office. The important issues ( federal reserve, foreign wars of aggression, special interest groups having too much influence etc) never ever change no matter what puppet they have in office. Come on man you should know this already.

Nothing this guy said was racist. He said he doesn't identify with any group. He didn't say that he was racially superior to any group. Bro no offense but you argue like a woman. Are you a woman btw....not trying to be rude but you were overly hard on this dude. This is not what this forum is about. Its about helping each other. It is not about cutting each other down. Go to loveshack with that mess.
 
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Pandora

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Year after year after year has gone by. Millions of swipes. Thousands of messages. Thousands of dollars. Seemingly endless dates. Very few flings. Zero legitimate relationships. Oh, and quite a few rounds of being legitimately hurt/devastated. This has been my life of dating from the age of around 28. And now, seven years later I feel I've finally come to the end. A mental rockbottom. Match, Okcupid, Bumble, Tinder, Happn, even eHarmony. You name it, I've tried it. I've super liked, I've super swiped, I've had my friends awkwardly take new photos of me, and I've put myself out there in what is now the new normal of modern day dating to the point where being 'burnt out' would be the understatement of my entire 35 years on planet Earth. I've (not so simply) been chewed up, spit out, then chewed up again and thrown into the darkest back alleys of life by the world that is online dating. I live in a suburb about 40 minutes outside of New York City, which in general has played a huge part in this story. I truly believe and am sure many would agree that the superficial and materialness is and always has been on another level here. While I won't go into details, the simple fact that I don't actually live or at least WORK in Manhattan or very close to it is a turnoff by city girls. Not that I'd prefer one of these superficial traveling every month planning my next city to live in NYC girls, but yeah, just making a point. While about half of my dates have actually been with NYC women, half have been in the suburbs.

Let me just say that I do consider myself a relatively (average) attractive (prob SMV 5) white male, have a great job with great benefits, a pension, nice car, nice clothes, I'm well groomed, etc, And while I do believe there are a good amount of circumstances aside from not living in NYC that have lead to me being in this spot, nothing in my wildest dreams even 3 years ago could have predicted I would still be here. I was never one of these clowns who puts up shirtless pics on their profiles and certainly not the guy who messages my matches talking dirty/asking if they want sex straight up. I've wanted a relationship. For many years now. Wanted someone to care for and to treat right. Someone to just connect with and build a life with. Yes there are "billions of women in this world", but in my world that doesn't f-cking matter. I've watched most of my entire friends circle and then some not only meet significant others, but get married and now have kids as well. Kids that weren't even conceived yet when I was still getting numbers from random girls and rejecting your typical obese sized OLD whales that would message me "Hey". Do I still have a few buddies who are single? Sure. But believe me when I tell you they don't care.

In my seven years of online dating, with very few real breaks in between, I have gained the unfortunate distinction of learning TWO things:

1) 97% of online dating is a cesspool of women I would never in a million years want to legitimately date.
*60% of women on OLD are either minorities, beach whales, or are completely unattractive in some way shape or form. What me and my friends have often referred to as "leftovers", so to speak. 38% are smoking hot (9s or 10s) or just hot girls (7s or 8s), usually whacked to a some form of a degree, usually mostly looking for attention with their filtered up photos that they argued with their friend to take of them. These are girls that you will never realistically have unless you're a Brad Pitt look alike with a 5 series in the garage. Then there are the 2% of women that are the needles in haystacks, though realistically this % is probably way less. The ones that you would realistically date. The ones you could see yourself taking home to mom or starting something with. Ones you click with. While probably divorced by this point these rarities are at least down to Earth enough to a point they won't ghost you after a first date they didn't like even if you may have. See after 30, or really even after 28/29 I'd say, at least in New York, for the most part, there is simply almost no such thing as a normal level headed attractive woman. And if she IS normal she will either have baggage up the wazoo to an unhealthy level or will have some other guys kid running around for you to worry about.

2) Online dating is an uphill battle from the start for guys under the range of around SMV7. Not only is it more difficult from a general standpoint of not being noticed more when girls are browsing, apps like Bumble and Tinder legitimately show your profile LESS if you are initially not a "hot commodity" that's getting swiped right on all the time. Since there are so many men on these sites to begin with, only so many can be pushed to the top of the list of being shown, and lord knows those aren't going to be bums or even average guys like me. I can go for DAYS without getting a single Match on bumble now, or weeks without getting a response from someone halfway decent on other sites. With regards to actual dating, the days of pre OLD asking a woman out only having to worry about the 2-3 other guys she might be talking to are gone. Put a girl who's at least a SMV6 on one of these sites with halfway decent photos, and after your date she's still going home to 25 matches, just for that DAY, while you go home to one, two if you're lucky.

This brings me to my final point... Why in seven years have I not been able to land one of the 2%? Well part of me would say I don't know. The other part would tell you the few reasons I believe have worked against me in this superficial human shopping world we call online dating...

1) I don't have a college degree - This one is pretty simple. In a world and time where not having a college degree is taboo, it's well, taboo for me saying I don't have jack, regardless of the decent paying job, and great benefits, I might have. Women in general and, again, especially in an area like NYC, are IMO legitimately wired to want a man who makes great money, can move up in the world, and support them. Once their silent dream of being a stay home at home mom is out the window, a point is already deducted. Add on the fact that the man might not have the resources to definitely be management one day and you're lucky you even get a second date sometimes.

2) I don't identify with any cultural background - I'm a mix of a bunch of backgrounds, (European Jewish, Italian, Polish, etc) and not a single one do I care about nor identify with. People, especially in a diverse area such as New York, don't like to hear this. They like to hear about your big loud Sunday family dinners or that time you and your whole Irish family celebrated St. Patty's day, etc. Simply put, people feel as if they connect more and better with someone of a similar background.

3) I don't identify with any religion - I grew up celebrating both Christmas and Hanukkah. My family has connections to both religions. I never had a bar mitzvah or a confirmation. You'd think things like this which at this point are 22 years out would never be a thing, but you'd be shocked at just how many times they would come up. But that aside, like #2 women and people in general can connect and like someone who they can see having a big Christmas experience with, and not just someone who tells them I go to my Aunts for Christmas day.

4) My appearance. While like I said above I do consider myself relatively attractive, I am most certainly not what most girls would say is 'hot'. I'm extremely thin for my height (6'2), have a slightly receding hairline, and in even though I'm no beta by any means, I don't come off as the most masculine guy in the world. I personally am not ashamed nor am I insecure about my appearance, but on dates I tend to (sometimes) wear long sleeves at first to cover my thin arms, but it doesn't really matter since in general I am very thin. I've been this way my entire life. Genetics.

So there you have it, in a very small nutshell. Sorry for the long post, but I guess I'm just looking for everyone's 2 cents on this gloomy Sunday morning. Perhaps there are others out there similar to me. Perhaps there is someone out there who can give me that golden piece of advice that will bring me up.
Hang in there man. Everyone is feeling it not just you. You know it is bad out there when men are creating movements like MGTOW ( Men Going Their Own Way). Don't ever think that the dating universe is just being unfair to you.

Stay strong and keep improving. Meet women in real life. This is the most natural way to meet women. If you can get the heck out of the United States for a few weeks. See the women of other cultures. She how feminine and easy going they are. Traveling will be refreshing for you. It will also show you how aberrant American women are.
 

HenBogan

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4) My appearance. While like I said above I do consider myself relatively attractive, I am most certainly not what most girls would say is 'hot'. I'm extremely thin for my height (6'2), have a slightly receding hairline, and in even though I'm no beta by any means, I don't come off as the most masculine guy in the world. I personally am not ashamed nor am I insecure about my appearance, but on dates I tend to (sometimes) wear long sleeves at first to cover my thin arms, but it doesn't really matter since in general I am very thin. I've been this way my entire life. Genetics.
Hey Smartone,

Start with the things you can deal with,

Do you have your own style?​
Is your hair the best it could be (hairline allowing) do you have stubble or a beard?​
Physique are you working out, even though you are thin (you say genetics).​

In relation to the above, i have my own sense of style, I wear only one designers clothes, they suit my physique and height perfectly. The designs are classic and timeless, I dress smart full stop. I actually dated a gal who wanted me to wear sneakers; I playfully refused ha ha… Nice girl actually, who totally has her life in order, I let her go to get with my most recent EX GF... I got back in touch with her and we are going this week.

I am fortunate to have a full head of hair, at my age, but I have possibly a feminine face, people often mistake me for being a lot younger than I am so i have a beard to counter that and add masculinity.

I too am on the slighter side but I am working out; this will improve your physique and also benefit your mental health, you may not grow physically but you will feel better.

I believe if you look, what you perceive to be, your best you will improve your aura and energy when you meet someone. Confidence.

You may have your look nailed, but if not, spend sometime doing so as you are investing in yourself; plus it will give you a purpose.
 

Who Dares Win

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Your look is the thing you should concentrate the most, good thing that you are 6'2 but you have to pack some muscles in that...the skinny arms are a no go even more with long sleeves that make it even more obvious.

Regarding your age, well most women are post wall sot he already limited suplly of decent women partly rot therefore decreasing the number even more.

OLD is a place where only 7s and above can get results, forget about it if you dont have the look.

I would like to give you a better suggestion but are a basically asking how to play soccer with a broken baseball bat...I would suggest to fix your bat and then move to a baseball field.
 

LARaiders85

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Seemingly endless dates. Very few flings. Zero legitimate relationships. Oh, and quite a few rounds of being legitimately hurt/devastated. This has been my life of dating from the age of around 28.
Well it's no mystery, online dating became socially acceptable and universal around that time and you see the results in how serial online dating people don't really have relationships anymore. You aren't the only one noticing, that's why this forum has become extremely negative and weird lately compared to back when I first joined a decade ago and only minor tweaks in mentality were needed to set you on your way. It's interesting how a lot of women approaching the wall can't even do what used to be the standard operating procedure and find someone to marry, they are too dysfunctional even to do that because they are too hot to settle with an ugly guy but too crazy for any high value guy to put up with.

All that being said, obviously you are fishing in the wrong pond AND something is wrong with your game that these women disqualify you pretty fast. Some things I recommend:

1. Do something that demonstrates ambition to women, side hustle or something like that.

2. Stop online dating completely, total waste of time for most men.

3. Work out with heavy weights especially compound lifts

4. Build your social circle until it is enormous. Men and women, doesn't matter. There are churches, social clubs, etc. No excuses.

5. You flat out have to learn to cold approach if you want options (most men). You need to build your confidence to do this because it can feel very degrading at times but it does work.

6. DEFINITELY need to lower your standards for looks if you want a relationship.

7. Ask people that know you in real life how you can improve your personality and looks.
 

LARaiders85

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Thanks. Of course the obvious answer by many others as well would be to just "get out there" and do things that allow me to meet women somehow someway, but there really aren't many options now are there? At least not in the suburbs. Had I had this been my 20's when I had this "online dating breakdown" and I was still doing all sorts of things left and right with friends lord knows it would be a different ballgame. But not to sound negative at all but, at 35 what am I really going to do? Take a cooking class? Check out book stores? The harsh reality IMO is that it really is tough once you get into your 30's with regards to dating and I'm not the only one in my position. I'm open to suggestions of course but trust me when I say I've been down this type of road before.
Just by having a big social circle and being a decent human being towards people in that circle I legitimately have three attractive women I'm being set up with, then a date this week with someone I just told "you're hot let's go out" as my pickup line on Facebook lol. I have the pick of the litter at my church and there is one promising opportunity in my other social circle.

Join a rec sports league, join a fraternal order like the Masons, take a class in a foreign language, get involved in volunteering(you will see women expressing their feminine energy in an extremely positive way) , start doing martial arts, join a church, plenty of options there. Become a known commodity in your community.

Not wanting to date minorities is a death sentence in a lot of places by the way, not sure why that is a hang up.
 
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