1.5 years difference, bulking - cutting - bulking

[Money & Muscle]

No, but

So you've read reports of sedentary people adding a few lbs of muscle when taking steroids and seen someone who made good strength gains on them - by don't know what or how much he was taking...

Steroids do very little without proper training and diet. They aren't magic.
Saying this as someone who is literally taking steroids and made 90% of my progress natty. 2 years later, I'm leaner and a little bigger.

Giving them this narrative as a cure-all not only is inaccurate, but it also provides incentive for idiots to start taking them for the wrong reasons, or without fixing the stuff they should be fixing first (diet and training).
You're literally causing harm by spreading the narrative on steroids that you have. They help, and are required if you're trying to look like an Olympia contender, but most desirable physiques do NOT require steroids.

 

[sangheilios]

So you've read reports of sedentary people adding a few lbs of muscle when taking steroids and seen someone who made good strength gains on them - by don't know what or how much he was taking...

Steroids do very little without proper training and diet. They aren't magic.
Saying this as someone who is literally taking steroids and made 90% of my progress natty. 2 years later, I'm leaner and a little bigger.

Giving them this narrative as a cure-all not only is inaccurate, but it also provides incentive for idiots to start taking them for the wrong reasons, or without fixing the stuff they should be fixing first (diet and training).
You're literally causing harm by spreading the narrative on steroids that you have. They help, and are required if you're trying to look like an Olympia contender, but most desirable physiques do NOT require steroids.

Bro, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about lol. I have done nothing but provide solid information on this thread as well as provided some observations of mine over the years of people I know from the gym. Roid boys try to claim it's not magic but it is, you think that very specific example of a guy I knew is not akin to magic? A guy that had been lifting for several years with a very solid base took his 1 rep max and turned it into a 10 rep max within 6 months, literally the equivalent of noob gains.

I don't need to be on steroids or have had personal experience with them to know what they are potentially capable of. Some people are hyper responders, some are low responders.....which is the exact same thing with ANYONE that goes to the gym regularly. Some people can put in a ton of effort and be on point with everything and not be fit or impressive. Other guys can half ass stuff and have a good amount of muscle, ripped abs, etc. One guy may make tremendous gains on steroids, such as the example provided, and another guy may slight but not significant gains, such as you. I also knew another guy who went on and it didn't do a whole lot for him either, but the thing was he wasn't all that impressive to begin with and clearly had mediocre genetics for muscle building, strength, etc.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Once again increased work capacity and quicker recovery are medical facts. We are also talking about men who are using many times the amounts of testosterone that would be produced physiologically, hence the term supra-physiological. Not men on 100mg of t-cypionate who will have positive effects but not the same as someone on a-bombs, deca (or NPP), tren, mast, eq, winstrol and t-prop (and for f’s sake not at the same time).

So you've read reports of sedentary people adding a few lbs of muscle when taking steroids and seen someone who made good strength gains on them - by don't know what or how much he was taking...

Steroids do very little without proper training and diet. They aren't magic.
Saying this as someone who is literally taking steroids and made 90% of my progress natty. 2 years later, I'm leaner and a little bigger.

Giving them this narrative as a cure-all not only is inaccurate, but it also provides incentive for idiots to start taking them for the wrong reasons, or without fixing the stuff they should be fixing first (diet and training).
You're literally causing harm by spreading the narrative on steroids that you have. They help, and are required if you're trying to look like an Olympia contender, but most desirable physiques do NOT require steroids.

 

[All_Kindz_Of_Gainz]

I also knew another guy who went on and it didn't do a whole lot for him either, but the thing was he wasn't all that impressive to begin with and clearly had mediocre genetics for muscle building, strength, etc.

Exactly what he's saying, Gear is not a magic pill that will make you jacked, you need a combo of diet, training, rest and genetics. Nobody is denying it helps, but saying that gear alone will make you jacked is taking crazy

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Exactly what he's saying, Gear is not a magic pill that will make you jacked, you need a combo of diet, training, rest and genetics. Nobody is denying it helps, but saying that gear alone will make you jacked is taking crazy

I don’t know that anyone on this thread claimed that’s the case. Furthermore, if the effects weren’t profound there wouldn’t be 95% of pro athletes using them, actors, and gym bros. Meanwhile all of the aforementioned love to tell the gen pop “oh it’s not like that! No no no, it takes a lot of dedication.”

 

[All_Kindz_Of_Gainz]

I don’t know that anyone on this thread claimed that’s the case. Furthermore, if the effects weren’t profound there wouldn’t be 95% of pro athletes using them, actors, and gym bros. Meanwhile all of the aforementioned love to tell the gen pop “oh it’s not like that! No no no, it takes a lot of dedication.”

View attachment 12014

Hahahaha okay man

 

[Money & Muscle]

And yet again I'll reinforce my belief that the fitness advice on this forum is fvcking retarded.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

And yet again I'll reinforce my belief that the fitness advice on this forum is fvcking retarded.

Who is handing out fitness advice on this thread? Why is anyone taking umbrage to anything that’s been posted on the thread thus far? Is it even remotely possible that you think that anyone is saying something other than they wrote?

Facts is facts.

 

[DonJuanjr]

Anyone saying they're some kind of cheat code is speaking from ignorance and don't have first hand experience to which they speak. You have to train HARDER than humanly possible to gain that size. Not to mention have Recovery and Diet on point. Not to mention the make or break factor GENETICS. Everyone speaking about gear that it's somehow a shortcut hasn't done it. All you naysayers that are on high horses start pinning Tren, and see how far that gets you without the other pillars in place. Fun Fact.... Everyone's dna doesn't respond to all the different compounds the same way. Some can take grams of tren and will not respond to it.... All gear does is allows one to train at 150% instead of 100% which means more effort, not less...

Makes me wonder if such posters that are so sure of what they speak, when it's clear they are ignorant, are as Don Juan as they claim.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

And people overcompensating by losing their shyte when someone states facts about anabolic steroid usage and two things it has been proven medically by peer reviewed cross-longitudinal studies increase workload capacity and aid recovery is barking up the wrong tree.

If it did not work you would not be sticking needles inti your quads and arse all the time.

Again no one has said you’d gain mass without training, what has been said is that anabolic steroids do help you gain mass through workload capacity and recovery enhancements.

Do I need to pull out the butcher block paper and crayons here?

p.s. if your pining trenbolone alone you’re an imbecile, you should at a minimum run it along side testosterone and maybe some winstrol or masteron. Ya know so that it doesn’t help you gain workload capacity and aid recovery.

 

[DonJuanjr]

Don't change the context of your debate. You posted the meme that it's like "renting Porsche" which is implied cheating. Anyone who runs tren without knowing what other compounds do to their endocrine system are imbeciles.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

Don't change the context of your debate. You posted the meme that it's like "renting Porsche" which is implied cheating. Anyone who runs tren without knowing what other compounds do to their endocrine system are imbeciles.

There has been no change in context.

That is a meme off of T-Nation, a site dedicated to weightlifting and anabolic steroid usage.

If you can't laugh at it you're in way too deep broheem.

 

[AureliusMaximus]

View attachment 12005
Done. Now what do?

That's an amazing change. Well done!

What exercises made the most difference/impact during your training do you think to gain your end-results/goals?

 

[Money & Muscle]

What exercises made the most difference/impact

According to some in this thread, it was starting TRT as I was hypogondal before - but I can assure you the biggest impact was my diet. I'd also been training for about 13 years prior, I just didn't eat right while doing so.

It's not one exercise or any group of exercises. It's dialing in your diet and training. Particularly, training to failure.

There's about 18 months between those 2 photos. I'm not done yet. End result is about 25lbs more muscle with slightly lower bodyfat levels. Ideally 225lb at 10%.

 

[Money & Muscle]

Who is handing out fitness advice on this thread? Why is anyone taking umbrage to anything that’s been posted on the thread thus far? Is it even remotely possible that you think that anyone is saying something other than they wrote?

Facts is facts.

The statement "gear is not magic" seems to keep getting disputed. The number of people taking gear would surprise you - but the number of people taking gear that look totally natural would surprise you more... because gear is not magic.

It amplifies what you're doing; you still need to put in the work and it WILL come around to buttfvck you if you're not doing cardio or eating right.

 

[EyeBRollin]

The statement "gear is not magic" seems to keep getting disputed. The number of people taking gear would surprise you - but the number of people taking gear that look totally natural would surprise you more... because gear is not magic.

It amplifies what you're doing; you still need to put in the work and it WILL come around to buttfvck you if you're not doing cardio or eating right.

You guys are talking past each other. No one in this thread said gear means a person will get instantly swole or does not have to work hard. Only that gear takes capacity and recovery to heights far beyond what is natural.

 

[sangheilios]

@Money & Muscle I am going to cite some of the stuff I was talking about earlier on here.

This was the study done that I mentioned about the Army Ranger school using test on soldiers and monitoring the results.
Effects of testosterone supplementation on body composition and lower-body muscle function during severe exercise- and diet-induced energy deficit: A proof-of-concept, single centre, randomised, double-blind, controlled trial - PMC (nih.gov)

This was a study done on young men and had them NOT train to see the results. I'll link the T nation article that broke it down, it's much easier to read, and I'll also include the link to the study itself.

Testosterone: Real-World Data (t-nation.com)

Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men - PubMed (nih.gov)

I'm also going to include some videos from a solid youtube channel, "More Plates More Dates" that has a lot of really interesting stuff.

NFL STAR GAINED OVER 100 POUNDS NATTY!? J.J. WATT NATTY OR NOT (youtube.com)

Was James Bond On Gear For Casino Royale? - Daniel Craig Natty Or Not (youtube.com)

There are tons of videos you can go through on that channel.

@Pierce.Manhammer and @EyeBRollin may find this interesting.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

NFL STAR GAINED OVER 100 POUNDS NATTY!? J.J. WATT NATTY OR NOT (youtube.com)

Yeah, he's natty.

 

[soulforge]

Hahaha bull$hit, I train harder than naturals in the gym brah

Steroids is no magic bullet.. You still got to work your azz off like crazy.

 

[sangheilios]

Yeah, he's natty.

It honestly amazes me people still think pro athletes are natural lol.

Steroids is no magic bullet.. You still got to work your azz off like crazy.

Bro, go through some of the content I provided above.