100% seriously: should I give up?

[fastzander]

So, folks, I have been trying to learn/do game/pickup for one entire year now. During this time, I have both watched at least half-an-hour’s worth of instructional videos every single day, totalling hundreds of hours of study by now, and approached between 3 – 15 women every single day, totalling over 2,000 women by now. I have tried to do everything right, do everything coaches tell beginners to do: muscle through the awkward phase, stick with it for an appreciable amount of time, be consistent, etc. I have zero approach anxiety, can get conversations effortlessly, and can get instant dates fairly regularly. Other than that, however, my results have been abysmal. I can’t anything beyond what I’ve just listed for ****. In this time, and across these approaches, I’ve gotten 165 phone numbers, gotten 57 total dates (including instant dates and dates with my 1 girlfriend), kissed 5 women, and gotten 1 girlfriend/sex partner––who I was with for approximately 5 months before she abruptly broke up with me. (I very nearly had 1 one-night stand, too, but she changed her mind at the last minute). At present; 95% of the women whose numbers I get won’t respond when I text them, 95% of those who do respond flake on dates with me instead, non-instant dates are nigh-impossible for me to get, and no woman who I go on either an instant date or a rare non-instant date with will go on a second one with me. To date, the aforementioned 1 girlfriend is literally the only woman who has ever gone on more than 1 date in a row with me. And from what I am given to understand, all of this is significantly below what the majority of guys who get into this are able to get after this amount of time, and this number of approaches, on average.

I have attempted extensively to diagnose what I am doing wrong, and why I can’t convert. I have self-reflected/analyzed for hours. I have asked about this in the past both here, on r/seduction, and in Game Global. I have recorded audio-recordings of three seemingly good conversations which all ultimately failed to convert, and have both examined them myself and submitted them for feedback by others. I have had a free one-day session with a professional coach. But my honest verdict, from all of this, is that I don’t have the faintest ****ing clue what I am doing wrong. By this point, I couldn’t tell you a single idea as to what I think I might be doing wrong if you asked me. I’m still watching videos, but by this point, they’re not telling me anything which I haven’t already heard a million times before, or to do anything which I’m not certain that I’m not already doing. I overwhelmingly feel as if I’ve hit my skill ceiling, and that if what I’m doing now isn’t good enough to work, then nothing I do ever will be. The only thing I haven’t done is outright pay for a full-blown professional coaching program, but I simply don’t have the five figures’ worth of disposable income to spend on something like that, and I never will.

All of this, I hope you will appreciate, does not inspire a lot of hope in the future for me. And it’s seriously starting to hurt my self-esteem.

So my question is: based on everything that I’ve just said, what do people here think my chances of ever succeeding are if I continue doing this? Do you think I can/will get better? Do you think I can/will figure out what, if anything, I’m doing wrong, eventually? Does anyone here know of anyone who got into this who had to go through multiple years and thousands of approaches in order to accumulate enough imperceptible microcalibration to start succeeding? Understand something: I don’t want to give up. I do believe, by now, that I’ve got the wherewithal to continue doing this for ten years and ten-thousand approaches, if necessary. This is my last chance for a relationship. If I do give up, then it will be nothing but sex workers and A.I. girlfriends for me for the rest of my life, which is as depressing a prospect as it sounds to me. But I’ve reached the stage where I feel like I have to seriously consider if there’s any point in not giving up. That if I do continue this for ten years and ten-thousand approaches, I’ll just be further pointlessly spinning wheels the entire time and further destroying my self-esteem. That I might simply be a hopeless case; one of those bottom-percentile men these days who simply can’t, and isn’t, going to get a partner. I’m sorry if this sounds like some sad sack whinge––I mean it 100% earnestly and soberly.

I’m not asking for tips here. Nor am I asking for anyone to either inspire or hugbox me. I just want people to give me their 100% honest assessment, based on everything I’ve said, as to whether they think I have any realistic chance of succeeding at this eventually if I continue doing it, or whether I would probably be better off just giving up. If anyone doesn’t think that I am capable, then I am able and willing to hear that.

 

[craider]

It sounds like you're right at the tipping point where you throw away your old way of doing things, relax, and start getting laid.

You're putting too much pressure on yourself and the girlies. That's why they flake out - avoid confrontation.

 

[Mike32ct]

I might be way off base here, but I’ll just throw this out there.

One problem with high volume approaching is that it trains you to have quick, shallow interactions.

Maybe reduce the number of approaches and focus on depth? Are you able to talk to a chick you “click” with for a half hour? Maybe an hour?

I’m not suggesting “over gaming” or boring them until you get friendzoned or she walks away.

I mean are you actually “connecting” with them or just scratching a number off of your list for the night?

 

[craider]

it reads as gamed encounters that technically end with a close or date but aren't super exciting

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Trying to do "pickup" instead of being a normal human being and having a fun conversation is likely your problem.

 

[nicksaiz65]

Did you mean dates with 57 different women over a year? If so, that’s a date with a different woman every week from cold approach. That’s great.

I guess your sticking point would be converting the dates.

 

[zekko]

Trying to do "pickup" instead of being a normal human being and having a fun conversation is likely your problem.

This is what I think. I know the OP wasn't asking for advice, but it sounds like he has immersed himself in pickup material to the point of obsession and my guess that is making him come off as weird. Just try talking to people on a normal basis without expecting things from them and just try to socialize normally.

 

[Lauel]

Enjoy yourself a bit. The message sounds like you turned into a pick-up nerd. Maybe enjoy life, go places where your aim is neither women nor sex. Once you have deeply settled into this beauty of life to the point where not having a woman wouldn't mean getting sex workers or AI girlfriends, then I think you might really get what you are looking for.
After all no one can bear the guy whose entire persona is books, posts and hours of video he watched on internet to pickup women.


Also, you didn't mention anything about your physical appearance in the whole post, which plays a good part with women.

 

[BPH]

Trying to do "pickup" instead of being a normal human being and having a fun conversation is likely your problem.

This is the right answer, but I'll also go over a few points where you might have a disconnect:

• What do you look like? Looks matter, so being honest with us about your height, ethnicity, fitness, etc would make a difference
• Where you live also matters, at least in terms of culture and population density
• How direct are you being with women about your interest? Having 95% of the women ghost you or flake on your dates leads me to believe there's some disconnect between how you got the number and how you're communicating your romantic interest later
• I think you're placing too much value on instant dates. Taking a girl out to grab a late-night drink at a quiet, classy bar on a Friday or Saturday night is a very different vibe than meeting some chick at the mall and immediately grabbing a soft pretzel with her or something - the date has nowhere to go in terms of escalation

More context is required.

What are you specifically saying to these women? Where are you meeting them? Where are you going on these instant dates? What are you saying over text? How did you land the 1 girl who did sleep with you?

It's hard to tell you your outlook for success when we can't even diagnose the problem.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

I have attempted extensively to diagnose what I am doing wrong, and why I can’t convert.

There's no such thing as "right" or "wrong."

There is "attractive" and "unattractive."

All you can do is improve.

Which takes a lifetime.

And that is slow, slow, slow improvement.

If you can date fatties today, a year from now you might be able to date slightly better girls.

That you're already asking if you should "give up" since you haven't yet opened the floodgates of easy and consistent puzzy indicates you have very unrealistic expectations.

 

[zekko]

After all no one can bear the guy whose entire persona is books, posts and hours of video he watched on internet to pickup women.

Good point. No matter how good you are with tactics, at some point you have to have some substance. That's why I've always liked the saying "Be yourself" (I know a lot of guys don't like it - that doesn't mean be a simp if that's what you're inclined t bee - be your best self, don't be your weakest self). Because whatever PUA tips you learn, it's all going to be filtered through your personality.

 

[BaronOfHair]

@fastzander "I’ve gotten 165 phone numbers, gotten 57 total dates"

You'll get ZERO if you throw in the towel. Keeping going, build upon the modest success you've had thus far. And to build on @BackInTheGame78 's observations("Trying to do "pickup" instead of being a normal human being and having a fun conversation is likely your problem"):

I recently read somewhere that, contrary to inital rumors, Eric Harris of Columbine was actually quite popular with the ladies. The personality he'd cultivated(“Eric was an incredible individualist,” he begins slowly. “Charismatic, an eloquent speaker, well read, the kind of guy who could bulls___ for hours about anything and be witty and brilliant" https://time.com/archive/6735315/eric-harris-and-dylan-klebold-portrait-of-a-deadly-bond/ ) + Sporting a dangerous edge(minus the mass murder, of course)increases a man's appeal exponentially

 

[fastzander]

I might be way off base here, but I’ll just throw this out there.

One problem with high volume approaching is that it trains you to have quick, shallow interactions.

Maybe reduce the number of approaches and focus on depth? Are you able to talk to a chick you “click” with for a half hour? Maybe an hour?

I’m not suggesting “over gaming” or boring them until you get friendzoned or she walks away.

I mean are you actually “connecting” with them or just scratching a number off of your list for the night?

"Are you able to talk to a chick you “click” with for a half hour? Maybe an hour?" If I get a date with them, then yes to both.

 

[fastzander]

Did you mean dates with 57 different women over a year? If so, that’s a date with a different woman every week from cold approach. That’s great.

I guess your sticking point would be converting the dates.

26 of those were instant dates. 7 of those were initial non-instant dates. The remaining 24 were consecutive dates with the one girlfriend. Counting all of those, I've been on dates with 32 different women.

 

[fastzander]

Enjoy yourself a bit. The message sounds like you turned into a pick-up nerd. Maybe enjoy life, go places where your aim is neither women nor sex. Once you have deeply settled into this beauty of life to the point where not having a woman wouldn't mean getting sex workers or AI girlfriends, then I think you might really get what you are looking for.
After all no one can bear the guy whose entire persona is books, posts and hours of video he watched on internet to pickup women.


Also, you didn't mention anything about your physical appearance in the whole post, which plays a good part with women.

"Also, you didn't mention anything about your physical appearance in the whole post, which plays a good part with women." I'm white. 34 years old (but have unanimously been told that I look much younger—in my early 20s). 175 cm./5.9 feet tall. 67 kg./147 lbs. in weight. Skinny body type. Black, straight hair. Black eyes. Short, regularly-trimmed beard. Very little body hair. I've always thought of myself as average-looking at worst, but I got a pretty negative reaction on r/rateme once, so who knows, maybe I'm ugly. My most notable physical feature is that I've got extremely long hair—longer than waist-length and longer than that of most women, to say nothing of that of most men.

 

[BPH]

My most notable physical feature is that I've got extremely long hair—longer than waist-length and longer than that of most women, to say nothing of that of most men.

Oh wait...I remember you: https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...iting-feedback-on-routine.284811/post-3171828

6. None. I'm NEET and entirely dependent on parents except for some stock dividends.

Did you ever change this? Or anything that was suggested in that thread? Clearly, you haven't bothered with a haircut still...

EDIT: You can reply to multiple people in a single response. You don't have to make a separate post for every reply, as I've done above.

 

[fastzander]

This is the right answer, but I'll also go over a few points where you might have a disconnect:

• What do you look like? Looks matter, so being honest with us about your height, ethnicity, fitness, etc would make a difference
• Where you live also matters, at least in terms of culture and population density
• How direct are you being with women about your interest? Having 95% of the women ghost you or flake on your dates leads me to believe there's some disconnect between how you got the number and how you're communicating your romantic interest later
• I think you're placing too much value on instant dates. Taking a girl out to grab a late-night drink at a quiet, classy bar on a Friday or Saturday night is a very different vibe than meeting some chick at the mall and immediately grabbing a soft pretzel with her or something - the date has nowhere to go in terms of escalation

More context is required.

What are you specifically saying to these women? Where are you meeting them? Where are you going on these instant dates? What are you saying over text? How did you land the 1 girl who did sleep with you?

It's hard to tell you your outlook for success when we can't even diagnose the problem.

"What do you look like? Looks matter, so being honest with us about your height, ethnicity, fitness, etc would make a difference" I'm white. 34 years old (but have unanimously been told that I look much younger—in my early 20s). 175 cm./5.9 feet tall. 67 kg./147 lbs. in weight. Skinny body type. Black, straight hair. Black eyes. Short, regularly-trimmed beard. Very little body hair. I've always thought of myself as average-looking at worst, but I got a pretty negative reaction on r/rateme once, so who knows, maybe I'm ugly. My most notable physical feature is that I've got extremely long hair—longer than waist-length and longer than that of most women, to say nothing of that of most men.

"Where you live also matters, at least in terms of culture and population density" Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

"How direct are you being with women about your interest?" I always open directly (i.e... "I just thought you were really cute", etc.), flirt multiple times during every initial interaction, and always attempt to escalate (i.e... "Want to hold hands"?) during every date.

"I think you're placing too much value on instant dates. Taking a girl out to grab a late-night drink at a quiet, classy bar on a Friday or Saturday night is a very different vibe than meeting some chick at the mall and immediately grabbing a soft pretzel with her or something - the date has nowhere to go in terms of escalation" The instant dates are to coffee shops, followed by walks along a river if we have time.

"What are you specifically saying to these women? Where are you meeting them? Where are you going on these instant dates? What are you saying over text?" Alright, here's what I do in full. I approach between 3:30 PM and 7:00 PM every day in a high-traffic shopping district in my city's CBD. I approach solo seated women (as opposed to walking women) who don't look busy (i.e... aren't on their phones), because I'm more likely to get a conversation out of them, and who look within my age and attractiveness range (i.e... aged between maybe 20 - 40 and of average attractiveness). They're maybe 30% white and 70% Asian, simply because those are what the demographics of the area happen to roughly be. I make eye contact, smile, and slow/lower my voice. I open by asking them if they're busy (to screen against women who are), followed by a direct observational flirt (i.e... "This is going to sound random; I just thought you looked really cute, and wanted to stop and say hi, it's your hairstyle, it really suits you...", etc.) if they say that they aren't. I banter with them for 5 - 15 minutes about what we're doing, where we're from, what we do, etc. I like to play a game with them in which I try to guess such things about them, and then have them try to guess such things about me. I tell a few stories about myself. I flirt with them two or three more times per interaction. I try to playfully extrapolate things about them two or three times per interaction. I try to break rapport with them one or two times per interaction. Recently, I've been playing with the line: "You are cute... but I'm not so sure about you. You seem like the kind of girl who acts innocent at first but then ends up being a bad influence." I laugh regularly during the interactions. I almost always try to seed the idea of a coffee date. After a maximum of about 15 minutes, if the vibe between us has been good enough, and if they're not busy, I'll ask them on an instant date to a coffee shop. If they are busy, I'll invoke a false time constraint and ask for their number instead ("You're so much more interesting than I thought you'd be. Let's grab a drink sometime!") and have them ring me to ensure I've gotten it. I used to try and schedule non-instant dates at this time too, rather than later over texts, but I haven't done that in a while. Half-an-hour later, I'll text them something light and non-needy (i.e... "Hi, [nickname]. It's [nickname], the guy with the cute hair from tonight. Had fun chatting with you tonight. Stay in touch!") with some emojis.

"How did you land the 1 girl who did sleep with you?" I landed her by doing pretty much what I described above, whilst she was shopping at a supermarket. The only difference is that she both did respond when I texted her, and did go on more than one date in a row with me. Some more details about her: she was Thai, very slightly older than me, of average attractiveness, of the same socio-economic status as me, and we seemed to vibe very well with each other from the start. Our relationship seemed 100% stress-free (i.e... we never fought or even disagreed with each other about anything). She genuinely did seem into me (i.e... made and brought me food, sent me photos of herself from a changing room, etc.). But then one morning, the day after our latest date, and without the slighest warning, she broke up with me over texts. She said that she'd been in a bad relationship before (first I'd heard of this) and wasn't ready to be in one again. She stressed, though, that I hadn't done anything wrong. Then she ghosted me and I never saw her again.

 

[fastzander]

Oh wait...I remember you: https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...iting-feedback-on-routine.284811/post-3171828



Did you ever change this? Or anything that was suggested in that thread? Clearly, you haven't bothered with a haircut still...

EDIT: You can reply to multiple people in a single response. You don't have to make a separate post for every reply, as I've done above.

"Did you ever change this? Or anything that was suggested in that thread?" Yes. After a lot of soul-searching and research, I've elected to go back to university to learn a trade later this year. Although it's not into anything elite or which I can imagine would be attractive to most women.

"Clearly, you haven't bothered with a haircut still..."

I'm not cutting my hair because it's taken me six years to grow it and it's the only part of my appearance that I like. And I also don't have any faith that cutting it would change anything.

 

[BPH]

When you quote a post, you can delete parts of that post so it's obvious what you're answering, as I'm about to show you:

"How direct are you being with women about your interest?" I always open directly (i.e... "I just thought you were really cute", etc.), flirt multiple times during every initial interaction, and always attempt to escalate (i.e... "Want to hold hands"?) during every date.

Escalating by asking for permission to do basic sh** is not attractive, but that's not your major problem.

"I think you're placing too much value on instant dates. Taking a girl out to grab a late-night drink at a quiet, classy bar on a Friday or Saturday night is a very different vibe than meeting some chick at the mall and immediately grabbing a soft pretzel with her or something - the date has nowhere to go in terms of escalation" The instant dates are to coffee shops, followed by walks along a river if we have time.

Ok, so you're still hanging around the river...go on actual dates...to bars, to restaurants, bowling, something later in the evening or at night where things have the opportunity to naturally progress towards getting physical.

"What are you specifically saying to these women? Where are you meeting them? Where are you going on these instant dates? What are you saying over text?" Alright, here's what I do in full. I approach between 3:30 PM and 7:00 PM every day in a high-traffic shopping district in my city's CBD

Go to bars...

You might argue, "but I don't like bars" or "I don't like drinking", but guess what? You're trying to fish in a rain puddle, rather than the ocean. Go where the fish are.

I open by asking them if they're busy (to screen against women who are), followed by a direct observational flirt (i.e... "This is going to sound random; I just thought you looked really cute, and wanted to stop and say hi, it's your hairstyle, it really suits you...", etc.) if they say that they aren't.

Alright, so you're still prefacing your approach by bringing attention to the fact that you're interrupting them. Better than what you were doing in September, but not by much.

("You're so much more interesting than I thought you'd be. Let's grab a drink sometime!") and have them ring me to ensure I've gotten it.

The part in bold is good, but the part before that insinuates that you did NOT think they were interesting before you approached them. I would rephrase that by simply being direct, that you think she's gorgeous and would love to grab a drink.

Half-an-hour later, I'll text them something light and non-needy (i.e... "Hi, [nickname]. It's [nickname], the guy with the cute hair from tonight. Had fun chatting with you tonight. Stay in touch!") with some emojis.

I want you to know I'm physically shaking my head reading this.

But then one morning, the day after our latest date, and without the slighest warning, she broke up with me over texts. She said that she'd been in a bad relationship before (first I'd heard of this) and wasn't ready to be in one again. She stressed, though, that I hadn't done anything wrong. Then she ghosted me and I never saw her again.

Really...are you sure this isn't the reason she broke up with you:

Throughout our relationship, however, I continued to do street game and try to get numbers anyway to try and hone my skills and make it easier to get another girlfriend in case we didn’t last.

"Did you ever change this? Or anything that was suggested in that thread?" Yes. After a lot of soul-searching and research, I've elected to go back to university to learn a trade later this year. Although it's not into anything elite or which I can imagine would be attractive to most women.

It's a start, but you should get some sort of income so you're not entirely dependent on your parents. Aside from the obvious money issue, the reason this is unattractive is that you lack ambition. Any woman will see that you're content in the situation that you're in, and will deduce that RIGHT NOW is the best it's ever going to be with you.

I'm not cutting my hair because it's taken me six years to grow it and it's the only part of my appearance that I like. And I also don't have any faith that cutting it would change anything.

Listen...you aren't particularly tall at 5'9". You weigh only slightly more than some women I've been with, and you have hair that's longer than theirs. You are the same weight as you were in September, so I'm guessing you haven't been going to the gym.

Based on your own description, you quite literally could be mistaken for a woman. Most women do not want a man who looks like a woman.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you've done nearly nothing that was recommended to you the last time you came here asking for advice, so why should anybody help you now if you're just gonna continue not listening?

 

[BadBoy89]

I’ve kissed 5 women, and gotten 1 girlfriend/sex partner

I just want people to give me their 100% honest assessment, based on everything I’ve said

You are ahead of 99% of the men on Sosuave.