Raised to be the "nice boy": does that sabotage your perspective on relationships with women?

tesla8520

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For everyone who grew up with a mother who played the role of the "good woman", the one who constantly told you to "be a good boy," "respect others," who praised you for being calm and obedient, while at the same time, insulting your father, calling him an "0sshole," a "pig," and so on... yet never actually left him and continued getting wet and having sex with him. You know the story.

So, for the men who grew up in that kind of environment, who were so programmed to seek in women, a relationship based on respect, obedience, honesty, and vulnerability, and who were essentially conditioned to believe that this was what a healthy relationship should look like, the question is: you've been through this, what should you actually be looking for in a relationship with a woman instead?

For example, I know many guys who get called "0ssholes," just like my father was, yet they have no trouble attracting and sleeping with lots of women. I don't know what kind of relationship they had with their mothers or what kind of dynamic they look for in a partner. I know few of their stories, and, as children, they were the "wild" kids, the disobedient ones who got into trouble, who didn't respect other people's boundaries, and instead expected everyone else to adjust their boundaries to accommodate them because they were difficult.
As a child, I saw them behave in ways that were the opposite of everything my mother told me was right or wrong.
They had no manners at all, and they always caused trouble or ended up in fights.

Anyway, that's just an example.

But just to put in evidence, that when my mother spoke to me, I really believed her words. I took them as truthful and listened. I didn't wonder if he was doing it and why. In fact, I also expect this from women now that I'm an adult, I simply listen to their words and take them as true. I'm sincere. I believe in their authenticity.


So the question is this: if you grew up educated by a mother like mine, would you say that your entire perspective on relationships needs to change? Or is your perspective fundamentally fine, and you simply need to find the right woman?
 

BaronOfHair

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@tesla8520 "the question is this: if you grew up educated by a mother like mine, would you say that your entire perspective on relationships needs to change?"

Most HUMAN BEINGS are products of either ONSs or unions folks got into without much prior deliberation... So, yeah: With few exceptions, most of us are going through life harboring beliefs about relations between men and women which are highly maladaptive. This isn't unique to men either

Entirely to many women cling to the delusion that once a man has wifed her up, she's "made it", and that he should love her for all eternity, no matter how atrociously she begins to behave after less than 6mos of marriage
 

The Duke

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I was raised by solid parents in a highly functional environment. I would say I had a better childhood than most. It was a little "Leave It to Beaver" or "Brady Bunch" like.

It was eye opening for me to see the amount of dysfunction and how poorly people treated each other once I got out into the dating world as an adult in my 30's. I wasn't prepared to deal with it because of my upbringing.

My perspective had to change if I wanted to play the game and so it did. However for long term relationships I tried to stick by my standards as much as possible however thats hard to always do with the current crop of women we have to select from.

The older I get the more I realize its better if I stick by the fundamentals I was taught if I want the "right" woman.

Modern woman has little to offer.
 

quodlibet

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There's a big difference between a nice guy and a weak guy.

You can (and should) be nice and act like a gentleman and still not be weak.

Best: nice + strong
Mid: a-hole
Worst: nice + weak
 

What happens, IN HER MIND, is that she comes to see you as WORTHLESS simply because she hasn't had to INVEST anything in you in order to get you or to keep you.

You were an interesting diversion while she had nothing else to do. But now that someone a little more valuable has come along, someone who expects her to treat him very well, she'll have no problem at all dropping you or demoting you to lowly "friendship" status.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

BackInTheGame78

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Being nice isn't a problem. Having no backbone and being agreeable at all times is. People need to stop confusing these two.

İt would be like saying eating ice cream is bad because you weigh 450 lbs and eat a gallon of it a day.

İt's going to extremes that is bad...in almost everything.
 

BeExcellent

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Advice from the old lady:

This is an interesting topic. My father (who I greatly respected and loved) was immovable in many ways. What I saw in him, really, was how a man should behave. He did not suffer fools, did not tolerate emotional outbursts, but would respond to logic and reason & emotional calibration.

He was stoic and kind and loving but could be a prick if that was warranted. No woman ever controlled him and he respected few women. My mother, who wouldn't give him enough sex, divorced him for cheating. I found that to be a natural consequence of not meeting his needs. He married his mistress and they remained married until he died 30 some years later.

My grandmother (my father's mother) used to tell me how imortant being lovers first and foremost was top priority. Lover/Friend-Partner/Parent IN THAT ORDER so you better marry someone you find attractive.

Here is my point OP: Women need a man they can respect. A "nice guy" is placating often times and not genuine. That is not "nice" and women will see through it.

As a man it IS great to possess kindness and generosity but you are unwise to extend that to everyone, lest people seek to take advantage. You must have standards and understand how to screen women for character, which has nothing to do with looks except that there is less incentive for beautiful women to have character if they have learned to leverage beauty in a transactional way. In other words beautiful women with solid character are rare and get locked down quickly.

So the qualities your mom espoused are good traits, but are only one side of the coin. The other side of that same coin is standards, boundaries, character and not putting up with crap - not being a pvssy, simply. Not with your wife or anyone else.

Did you ever ask your mom why she stayed with an ass hole? If she's still alive you should ask her. The answer will tell you alot about whether to listen to your mom.
 

zekko

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For everyone who grew up with a mother who played the role of the "good woman", the one who constantly told you to "be a good boy," "respect others," who praised you for being calm and obedient, while at the same time, insulting your father, calling him an "0sshole," a "pig," and so on... yet never actually left him and continued getting wet and having sex with him. You know the story.
Your mother teaching you to be courteous and respectful was the right and normal thing to do. Her being disrespectful to your father and calling him names was not. On the other hand, if they stayed together and were even sexually active, they must have loved each other regardless - had some anger issues, but managed to forgive each other.


I was raised by solid parents in a highly functional environment. I would say I had a better childhood than most. It was a little "Leave It to Beaver" or "Brady Bunch" like.
Same here. One of the things I am most thankful for is that I was raised in a harmonious household with good parents who stayed together, rarely argued, and took the effort to raise us right. At the very least, it shows you what is possible. This was a true gift that I really think gave me a leg up later in life, although it took a little while to bear fruit. I can't say they prepared me for everything life threw my way, but they did what they could, and eventually I managed to pick up the rest of what I needed.
 

BaronOfHair

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@BeExcellent "As a man it IS great to possess kindness and generosity but you are unwise to extend that to everyone, lest people seek to take advantage"

And far too often, "being nice" = Giving into the whims of the most boisterous and fussy, as opposed to providing those who are in need with the tools to move further ahead on their own
 

BadBoy89

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The mother is part of it, but its also the entertainment, the government and the system that brainwashes.

"Be nice" "Respect others" "Supress your sexuality" "Don't touch women" "Don't want or think about sex" "She is doing you a favor by having sex with you"

If the mother is loud and abusive, it compounds the issue. If the boy doesn't have any sisters or girl cousins he interacts with while growing up, only brothers, it compounds the issue more. If the boy gets rejected harshly by the first few girls he tries to like, it compounds the issue even more.

Then the boy discovers porn. And he's like "Hey, these beautiful women don't judge me, they don't want me dead, they actually like me and want to sleep with me?" Then he realizes he can have a different women to love him every night. Then boy gets depressed because he realizes porn is empty and he can't connect with real women.

Then when the boy grows up and becomes a man, he has anger towards women. He doesn't really want to connect with them, he wants to hurt them.

Then the man's friends and family say "why don't you have a girlfriend? why do you suck with women?"

Then man finds Sosuave.....

Rock on!
 

Solomon

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I was raised by solid parents in a highly functional environment. I would say I had a better childhood than most. It was a little "Leave It to Beaver" or "Brady Bunch" like.

It was eye opening for me to see the amount of dysfunction and how poorly people treated each other once I got out into the dating world as an adult in my 30's. I wasn't prepared to deal with it because of my upbringing.

My perspective had to change if I wanted to play the game and so it did. However for long term relationships I tried to stick by my standards as much as possible however thats hard to always do with the current crop of women we have to select from.

The older I get the more I realize its better if I stick by the fundamentals I was taught if I want the "right" woman.

Modern woman has little to offer.
I remember being naive in my 20s when women would tell me their sob stories about their ex who cheated on them; then in my 30s it wasn't just cheating but also beating them up. I would be flabbergasted why women would overstay in those relationships, rationalizing that it was some form of Stockholm syndrome

But then one day it hit me, some of these women are in those relationships 'cause they ain't shyt; they were raised in ain't shyt environment. This is all they know, some of these women actually like it because it's what they are used too. I recently had a woman tell me she avoided "nice guys" cause she likes drama (needless to say it didn't last long) How a woman was raised matters, because those dynamics tend to play out as they get older and also obvisuly for relationship compatibility.

once you start to realize that you start to understand why a woman would spend years with her cokehead boyfriend who would put hands on her.
 
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