Rate my appearence

[BeExcellent]

Romantic interactions (for sake of a simple term to group them) start off as you and the other person being complete and utter strangers. To me, this falls somewhere between the flight attendant interaction and the interaction with a family member. Most people care to some degree or other about what someone they fancy thinks about them........But I hold the view that this tendency is premature. Obviously as we become closer to a particular individual we DO care more what that individual thinks. They move into more a family member type category over time. That is normal. And it can be disappointing when they do something that affronts the associated emotional investment in some way. But even here.....we can never control the other person. We can only observe and respond, and it is best to do so as objectively as possible.

What I see around here a tremendous amount is men who are terribly over invested in what some random woman thinks. You don't know her! She may not give you the time of day, you might be invisible to her, or she might turn out to be a crazy BPD stage 5 clinger! Doesn't matter.

If you have a well developed sense of self, and are not seeking attention and validation to prop up a weak sense of self, you are not going to be gobsmacked by looks or body, and you are going to behave in an appropriate way.

If you have a less well developed sense of self, and you are too invested in whether or not this stranger woman (who could be a complete weirdo for all you know) gives you the time of day or not, then what you have done is become dependent on her opinion in regard to your self esteem, and in really bad cases, you objectify this woman and see her not as a person, but as an object, something to be obtained, her will be damned, an accessory that broadcasts your worth outward to others. In the latter case you have dehumanized the woman, she is merely an object used to prop you up and show off (that is textbook what a narcissist does - and narcissists have very VERY fragile sense of self and self concept).

If you are so invested in what women think whom you don't even know? You are indeed outcome dependent, and in need of some self examination.

 

[Plinco]

Another poster sometimes refers to me as "Karen" here, which of course is meant as an insult. In fact, I have been personally attacked/insulted/belittled around here plenty over many years.

He's just bantering with you.

Romantic interactions (for sake of a simple term to group them) start off as you and the other person being complete and utter strangers. To me, this falls somewhere between the flight attendant interaction and the interaction with a family member. Most people care to some degree or other about what someone they fancy thinks about them........But I hold the view that this tendency is premature. Obviously as we become closer to a particular individual we DO care more what that individual thinks. They move into more a family member type category over time. That is normal. And it can be disappointing when they do something that affronts the associated emotional investment in some way. But even here.....we can never control the other person. We can only observe and respond, and it is best to do so as objectively as possible.

What I see around here a tremendous amount is men who are terribly over invested in what some random woman thinks. You don't know her! She may not give you the time of day, you might be invisible to her, or she might turn out to be a crazy BPD stage 5 clinger! Doesn't matter.

If you have a well developed sense of self, and are not seeking attention and validation to prop up a weak sense of self, you are not going to be gobsmacked by looks or body, and you are going to behave in an appropriate way.

If you have a less well developed sense of self, and you are too invested in whether or not this stranger woman (who could be a complete weirdo for all you know) gives you the time of day or not, then what you have done is become dependent on her opinion in regard to your self esteem, and in really bad cases, you objectify this woman and see her not as a person, but as an object, something to be obtained, her will be damned, an accessory that broadcasts your worth outward to others. In the latter case you have dehumanized the woman, she is merely an object used to prop you up and show off (that is textbook what a narcissist does - and narcissists have very VERY fragile sense of self and self concept).

If you are so invested in what women think whom you don't even know? You are indeed outcome dependent, and in need of some self examination.

I appreciate you taking the time to write that out. I've been thinking about this most of the day today and there's some things I want to point out, if nothing else, then for the lurkers reading this thread.

Outcome independence must be distinguished from nihilism, which in this context is to have no emotional investment in any relationship.

Outcome expectation is rational and depends on a set of the person's convictions.

A person's self-esteem must be produced. Think of this in terms of confidence versus hubris; actual versus potential.


As for me, I've examined myself very well within my understanding and some things are very important to me; I don't like to lose anything. I think the concept of outcome dependent is not the right way to put it.

I know what I want, I know why I want it, and I'll do whatever it takes to get it if it's important enough.

 

[Cheeky_James]

@Plinco check out Brent Smith’s stuff , interviews with Cliffs List on YT for example. His approach would be perfect for you (and lines up with SGs advice ). You can see his current lifestyle on his IG .. he’s a super high value guy now these days.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Am I entitled to my customers? Of course not, but that doesn't stop me from advertising, or getting frustrated if my work doesn't pan out the way I planned. I'm I entitled to women? No, but that doesn't mean I won't approach or get frustrated at myself for failure.

I know that this is probably not what you want to hear but there are no simple improvements that you can make to drastically increase your cold approach outcomes. The reason why you only got one date out of 96 approaches is due to a combination of multiple factors:

1. Cold approaches have low odds of success to begin with.
2. Cold approaches have become less socially acceptable in recent years.
3. You are approaching much younger women.
4. You are not a natural (most of us aren't), so there is probably some awkwardness to how you initiate conversation with women.

Have you considered abandoning the cold approach in favour of a more targeted strategy?

 

[Plinco]

Have you considered abandoning the cold approach in favour of a more targeted strategy?

Yes. I still want to do a lot of cold approaches as to leave no stone left unturned.


@BeExcellent

I just finished making dozens of corrections of trees from this site

iNaturalist

www.inaturalist.org

if I get really angry and want to spank someone who keeps marking trees in the wrong category, am I being outcome dependent?

 

[Plinco]

@Plinco check out Brent Smith’s stuff , interviews with Cliffs List on YT for example. His approach would be perfect for you (and lines up with SGs advice ). You can see his current lifestyle on his IG .. he’s a super high value guy now these days.

I'll check it out thanks

 

[nicksaiz65]

I know that this is probably not what you want to hear but there are no simple improvements that you can make to drastically increase your cold approach outcomes. The reason why you only got one date out of 96 approaches is due to a combination of multiple factors:

1. Cold approaches have low odds of success to begin with.
2. Cold approaches have become less socially acceptable in recent years.
3. You are approaching much younger women.
4. You are not a natural (most of us aren't), so there is probably some awkwardness to how you initiate conversation with women.

Have you considered abandoning the cold approach in favour of a more targeted strategy?

I think if he lived in say, New York for example he could hit really high volume right? Even at that success rate, if one continues to do it and improve over time…

That could even be done in tandem with a targeted approach in theory. Sniping and chaingunning lol.

 

[Sega Genesis]

I know what I want, I know why I want it, and I'll do whatever it takes to get it if it's important enough.

^Fair but what BE was saying (if I read her words correctly) was that when you're too focused on a particular outcome, it impacts your vibe, your energy, it can be perceived by others as desperate or too thirsty.

As such, it can actually work against what you're trying to obtain or achieve... a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.

Re nihilism being distinguished from outcome independence, is there not a happy medium between those two things, a balance? As per the example BE gave about the flight attendant and one's dad not showing up.

 

[Plinco]

^Fair but what BE was saying (if I read her words correctly) was that when you're too focused on a particular outcome, it impacts your vibe, your energy, it can be perceived by others as desperate or too thirsty.

As such, it can actually work against what you're trying to obtain or achieve... a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts.

yeah she's 100% correct there.

Re nihilism being distinguished from outcome independence, is there not a happy medium between those two things, a balance? As per the example BE gave about the flight attendant and one's dad not showing up.

You differentiate the two be using reason. That means you have to think about what your convictions are and why.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Am I entitled to my customers? Of course not, but that doesn't stop me from advertising, or getting frustrated if my work doesn't pan out the way I planned. I'm I entitled to women? No, but that doesn't mean I won't approach or get frustrated at myself for failure.

I know that this is probably not what you want to hear but there are no simple improvements that you can make to drastically increase your cold approach outcomes. The reason why you only got one date out of 96 approaches is due to a combination of multiple factors:

1. Cold approaches have low odds of success to begin with.
2. Cold approaches have become less socially acceptable in recent years.
3. You are approaching much younger women. Most of them are not into much older guys.
4. You are not a natural (most of us aren't), so there is probably some awkwardness to how you initiate conversations with women.

You can change you haircut, get more sleep, or do any of the other things some people there are recommending. It won't make a huge difference. Have you considered abandoning the cold approach in favour of a more targeted strategy?

 

[Plinco]

Outcome dependence or independence really gets to core belief systems about self. Some interactions do not affect concept of self at all. So the self is impermeable to those rejections.

In my case I'm hyper competitive combined with low emotional intelligence.

 

[BeExcellent]

Yes. I still want to do a lot of cold approaches as to leave no stone left unturned.


@BeExcellent

I just finished making dozens of corrections of trees from this site

iNaturalist

www.inaturalist.org

if I get really angry and want to spank someone who keeps marking trees in the wrong category, am I being outcome dependent?

Most instructive. At least you are honest. Here is my question for you.

Why do you care?

You see, anger is an inappropriate resonse in the example you gave.

Its like getting angry at some idiot who cuts you off in traffic. Complete waste of your emotional bandwidth & destroyer of your peace as well as the peace of those around you. The person cuttng you off in traffic (or mis-categorizing trees in your example) doesn't know you or give two flips about you. Furthermore you can't get mad at them....unless you are going to "road rage" which is immature, inappropriate and dangerous.

Chalk stuff like that up to dip shjts are everywhere & never let it destroy your peace & emotional equilibrium.

Women do not like men who throw tantrums like a 3 year old.

 

[sevbucmash]

Go for Asian chicks I reckon.
They age very well.
Like they say with “black don’t crack”….
“Asian Don’t Raisin”
Intellectual Asian chicks in the late 20s to early 30s bracket.., my vote. Theyll look younger than their age.

I'd stick to OLD actually. Because cold approaching sucks nowadays. Ai approaching is better, that's when you get a smile, or a hi or something. Something positive. An approach invitation. Then person is open for an approach. Chances of positive interaction are that much higher. OLD is similar. If someone swipes on you, they are interested.

 

[sevbucmash]

- Your game is weak
- You have no social skills
- You radiate creepy energy
- You have a conflicted frame
- You are unsure of yourself
- You are not confident
- You are socially uncalibrated
- You can't read the room to save your life
- You can't read her body language to save your life
- You are overly dependent on outcome
- It's clear you are overly dependent on outcome
- She can smell your desperation
- You are approaching the wrong people
- You are dressing like a hobo
- You smell like a hobo
- You have a clearly visible erection
- You sound like Marty McFly from "Back To The Future"
- You think memorized openers = game
- You can't read her emotions
- You have dirty fingernails
- Your shoes look like you got them from a dumpster
- You have a horrible sense of style
- You trust the fistfvckers on SoSuave to honestly judge your looks

Opposite of all of this gets you approach invitations.

 

[Cheeky_James]

View attachment 15360


I'd stick to OLD actually. Because cold approaching sucks nowadays. Ai approaching is better, that's when you get a smile, or a hi or something. Something positive. An approach invitation. Then person is open for an approach. Chances of positive interaction are that much higher. OLD is similar. If someone swipes on you, they are interested.

we can use AI to do approaches now?
Cool!

-Take photo of chick
-Upload to AI tool.
-AI calculates your odds and generates the highest value, super sexy opener.
-Open and Lay.
simples

 

[Cheeky_James]

Just look for the signs Plinco …

 

[Plinco]

Most instructive. At least you are honest. Here is my question for you.

Why do you care?

You see, anger is an inappropriate resonse in the example you gave.

Its like getting angry at some idiot who cuts you off in traffic. Complete waste of your emotional bandwidth & destroyer of your peace as well as the peace of those around you. The person cuttng you off in traffic (or mis-categorizing trees in your example) doesn't know you or give two flips about you. Furthermore you can't get mad at them....unless you are going to "road rage" which is immature, inappropriate and dangerous.

Chalk stuff like that up to dip shjts are everywhere & never let it destroy your peace & emotional equilibrium.

Women do not like men who throw tantrums like a 3 year old.

I'm not ignoring you. I'm thinking about my response

 

[BPH]

I'm not ignoring you. I'm thinking about my response

Is one required?

We're at 5, almost 6 pages now. Do you have clarity?

Really, this just boils down to making improvements in how you present yourself and approaching more women. You already know this, and we've been over this.

What YOU have to decide is whether you're willing to do things differently. Because I'll tell you what...approaching 2-3 girls per week and leaving the bar 30 minutes after getting there is NOT how you will achieve your goals.

You must decide whether doing things in a way that might make you uncomfortable is worth getting your desired result.

This thread is a testament to the fact that you would rather raise arguments and make points than take the necessary action and return with results to get further feedback on...you are responding to @BeExcellent just to let her know you're still planning your response...

Go out and DO something.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Is one required?

We're at 5, almost 6 pages now. Do you have clarity?

Really, this just boils down to making improvements in how you present yourself and approaching more women. You already know this, and we've been over this.

What YOU have to decide is whether you're willing to do things differently. Because I'll tell you what...approaching 2-3 girls per week and leaving the bar 30 minutes after getting there is NOT how you will achieve your goals.

You must decide whether doing things in a way that might make you uncomfortable is worth getting your desired result.

This thread is a testament to the fact that you would rather raise arguments and make points than take the necessary action and return with results to get further feedback on...you are responding to @BeExcellent just to let her know you're still planning your response...

Go out and DO something.

As I have said numerous times before, the human brain is not built to help you thrive, it is there to help you survive.

The easiest way it knows to help you survive is to only allow the known to occur and prevent as much unknown from occuring as possible.

It doesn't matter if it's a life or death situation or just trying to get better with women, it treats it the same.

So effectively, your brain is actively working against you by trying to force you to NOT go outside of your comfort zone and to be uncomfortable. It simply wants you to continue doing what you always have since it knows that's the "safest" thing for you.

It's up to each person to make a conscious decision to override this, and it is damn hard because your brain will try everything in its power to get you to stop for a while. Until you end up incorporating this into your lifestyle/routine and then it accepts this as the "new way" and it stops treating it as something that is a threat to your survival.

It's up to a person to willingly go out and decide to thrive, their brain will not assist them in this area and will actively work against them.

 

[nicksaiz65]

As I have said numerous times before, the human brain is not built to help you thrive, it is there to help you survive.

The easiest way it knows to help you survive is to only allow the known to occur and prevent as much unknown from occuring as possible.

It doesn't matter if it's a life or death situation or just trying to get better with women, it treats it the same.

So effectively, your brain is actively working against you by trying to force you to NOT go outside of your comfort zone and to be uncomfortable. It simply wants you to continue doing what you always have since it knows that's the "safest" thing for you.

It's up to each person to make a conscious decision to override this, and it is damn hard because your brain will try everything in its power to get you to stop for a while. Until you end up incorporating this into your lifestyle/routine and then it accepts this as the "new way" and it stops treating it as something that is a threat to your survival.

It's up to a person to willingly go out and decide to thrive, their brain will not assist them in this area and will actively work against them.

Similar to desensitizing approach anxiety, right? You keep going out and then eventually your brain stops screaming at you that talking to people from "other tribes" and getting rejected and "exiled" is a threat to your life because you prove to it that it's not a dangerous situation? That's how I interpreted it.