Please help with this club/bar situation

[DonJefe19]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but I'd rather be celibate than go too far beneath my standards. I value my self-esteem.

I think the point he's getting at is that if the roles were reversed then would you be the hot one the girls are looking at or are you one of the ugly ones in a sea of uglies?

I think @sevbucmash is insinuating that you're not the hot one.

 

[Plinco]

I think the point he's getting at is that if the roles were reversed then would you be the hot one the girls are looking at or are you one of the ugly ones in a sea of uglies?

I think @sevbucmash is insinuating that you're not the hot one.

So that's fair. I'm working on how I look and I believe I have a long way to go.

I think it's better to raise the standards on oneself than to lower them for other people.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I thought about this too and it's not bad advice. I'll consider doing that too.



Let me clarify.

Attraction is not a choice given a person's set of convictions. In other words, people have emotional responses based on what they are convinced of is true.

I've done 20 years of self-reflection and analysis to make sure all of my convictions are rational (corresponds to reality). I'm attracted to youthful energy because that's what I hold in high value. Women who have mental problems carry some of that energy because part of their psyche is living in that past trauma where they are expressing that youthful energy.

Instead of dating women with mental problems, wouldn't make more sense to start a relationship with a girl who doesn't have those problems but still has the youthful energy?

Let me ask you this @BackInTheGame78 , is selecting a 19 year old girl to enjoy my company who is personally compatible with me not a favorable reflection of me? It is favorable for me and her, and everyone else. But why do you think it isn't?

Sounds like a bunch of word salad to justify making bad choices and trying to be Peter Pan living in Neverland so you don't have to ever grow up.

 

[Plinco]

Sounds like a bunch of word salad to justify making bad choices and trying to be Peter Pan living in Neverland so you don't have to ever grow up.

Hahaha

To the contrary this is an actual word salad. What you typed up there sounds great on the surface but it shows that what I said went right over your head. Think about what I said carefully and if you need clarification please ask.

...trying to be Peter Pan living in Neverland so you don't have to ever grow up.

This implies duty to other people. No one owes you anything because you exist.

@justaroundthecorner since you liked his comment this is for you too.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Hahaha

To the contrary this is an actual word salad. What you typed up there sounds great on the surface but it shows that what I said went right over your head. Think about what I said carefully and if you need clarification please ask.



This implies duty to other people. No one owes you anything because you exist.

@justaroundthecorner since you liked his comment this is for you too.

Doesn't imply duty to anyone, it implies you are failing yourself

 

[Plinco]

Doesn't imply duty to anyone, it implies you are failing yourself

Okay I'll give you the benefit of the doubt then

What are you talking about exactly?

 

[Plinco]

Your screening process is completely broken is the main takeaway I've gotten from this.

Sounds like a bunch of word salad to justify making bad choices and trying to be Peter Pan living in Neverland so you don't have to ever grow up.

Doesn't imply duty to anyone, it implies you are failing yourself

I'm calling you out on your vague bs and I'm still waiting

I think your perspective is coming from a bunch of nonsense, but you can prove me wrong

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I'm calling you out on your vague bs and I'm still waiting

I think your perspective is coming from a bunch of nonsense, but you can prove me wrong

There comes an age where a man "progresses" beyond certain things in their life.

Kinda like when you are a teenager a lot kids spend their days playing video games but then as they mature and get older their interests start changing and they focus on things that help progress them to become a better them.

Going to clubs is one of those things. Coming from a former house club DJ of a decade that was in clubs virtually every day of the week at one point.

You can claim it's energy or whatever else you'd like to call it. At the end of the day it's lack of maturity and growing beyond a certain stage. Call it "Failure to Launch" or whatever else you'd like to call it.

Smart, successful people very carefully choose who they allow around them because they know not only do those people have an effect them, it also in many ways defines them.

The fact you would allow some former crackhead around you willingly because she was "hot" and young shows not only a lack of mature decision making on your part, but also shows you don't really care who you surround yourself with, which is not a good sign. It's simply not what successful people do. In fact, it's the opposite.

You can argue against this all you want and explain it away all you want, but the phrase "show me the people you surround yourself with and I'll show you who you are" exists for a reason.

Instead of arguing and trying to defend your position I challenge you to progress beyond this video game mindset because that mindset doesn't exist in a vacuum, it permeates thru your entire life. And regardless of whatever level of success you have or don't have, this has a negative effect on that.

 

[Plinco]

There comes an age where a man "progresses" beyond certain things in their life.

I appreciate your more specific response.

A man's progress is 100% his responsibility.

I go to these places to progress as a more functional man. Like I've said before, I'm not like other people, and that's something I have to take responsibility for.

The fact you would allow some former crackhead around you willingly because she was "hot" and young shows not only a lack of mature decision making on your part, but also shows you don't really care who you surround yourself with, which is not a good sign. It's simply not what successful people do. In fact, it's the opposite.

I still talk to her. I'm a friend of her brother too. She's struggling with issues, and I've encouraged her to keep doing better. She really is a good person at heart, but she has a lot of work to do on herself. Yes she's attractive, but she is also an interesting person and as long as she remains clean, then I don't mind talking to her.

The most important measure of any man or woman is how rational they are. Rational people do not seek to violate the rights of other people, and are constructive with their own lives, and by my definition, are 'cool.'

 

[Plinco]

Hi Plinco,
Learn to Dance and many of your troubles will be over.

I would always pull up at the bar, watch some tv, stand / lean in do not sit for a bit, make some convo with the bartender, grab a plastic cup and fill it with redbull which looks like beer. Don’t rush out of there so you establish a presence. If you do this, the bar will eventually come to you. Since you’re not really drinking, tip well. I would throw a $5 down and usually, not always, that would get me free drinks. If it doesn’t, ok. Either way you’re establishing a good relationship with the staff.

Should be no issue, you’ll meet the staff and you should be welcome back.

So what do you think would have happened if you would have started a few conversations indirectly with anyone and everyone, perhaps seated at the bar?

Sometimes a little investment paves the way for future success.

Outsiders are always observing from afar. So when you get a conversation going in a small group of strangers, it draws others attention. A lot of times it will lower their defenses, pique their curiousities, paint you in a positive light, and make it easier for you to converse with later on.

Another thing to consider is when at a bar, most of your less conversational folks will position themselves on the outskirts. Thats why they are called wall-flowers. The more extroverted, easier to talk to people are front and center where the conversations happen.

Its really easy to walk up to the main bar, and place your drink order right next to the hot girl. While you are waiting you feel her out to see if she is open to you. If not, no big deal. Its like you approached but no one noticed. It looked like you were ordering a drink. So there are ways to do what you are doing more discretely if necessary.

I think it's pretty straightforward here - the vibe you were giving off was that of a lost puppy and the girls got "creep'd" out. When you just wonder around, with barely any interaction with groups of people in the bar nor doing any activity, people tend to keep you on their radar as an avoidance.

Although, I don't think age has anything to do with it. Younger chicks are looking for "energy" and if you can match it and have enough style that you can blend in, she's not going to care if you're 20+ years her senior. But that's the trick, you have to morph into that type of guy. And to be honest, everything you described doesn't really tell me you're that guy. This is something I suggest discussing with @BPH because he has all the attributes that would attract younger, attractive women. His game is quite solid.

Back when I was in California, someone came up with a pretty fun way to get good at cold approaching (it wasn't me). It was called "100 set Saturdays." Basically every Saturday, the entire Pickup community would gather up, break up into groups, and spend the entire day cold approaching women in coffee shops, book stores, the mall, grocery stores, the streets, etc. The goal was not to get laid. The goal was to make it to 100 approaches. Ironically, most guys never made it to 100 approaches. They would end up pulling a woman way before they got anywhere close.

Basically we made it a rule to not focus on results. We were focused on the bigger picture - calibration. And of course, nothing calibrates you faster than the field itself. And instead of just showing up to night clubs, we thought it would be better to practice doing "day game" and develop some social momentum. If you work a 9-5 and have no social life, it could be daunting to show up at a random club on a Saturday night and put all the pressure on yourself to create a connection with a woman.

Women can easily sense desperate energy. So instead of framing what we did as "seducing women", we would frame it as "practice". As a result, the guys were way more comfortable approaching women anywhere, anytime, and any place. Guys were more relaxed and had more fun once there was no pressure to get laid. And guys were getting way better results, including myself.

OP- My advice is start early on Saturday (Like 3 PM). Frame cold approaching during the day time as "practice." The first 10 approaches are going to suck. Just get used to showing intent without feeling weird or creepy. At some point you are going to hook a set (unless you are super ugly). Practice vibing with women. Practice escalating. And if the window is there, practice closing. Opening, vibing, escalating, and closing - that's pretty much all there is to it. And as a bonus, when you finally make it to night game ( bars, clubs, parties), you would have developed social momentum. You would be out of your head acting more natural in the night clubs because you've just spent all day vibing with women.

@Plinco - I've seen guys improve at warp speed using this "process oriented" approach of focusing on developing social skills instead of results. This is why I am not going to give you calibration tips. There's millions of different nuances in the seduction game. If you don't have a working process of continuous improvement, you'll just keep running into more situations where you need someone to calibrate you.

P.S. This was in the 2010's and in San Francisco and L.A., two of the biggest tourist cities in the U.S. where you can literally approach women all day in a city block radius and noone would notice. I understand not everyone lives in a location where pickup can be done religiously without anyone ever noticing you.

These are all good suggestions and I'm going to apply them this week. When I get to that same place Thursday night, I won't plan on doing any cold approaches. I'll try dancing, buy some water and tip the staff and make conversations with the people there. I'll be in observation mode.

I've been approached by women at this place before, the problem is that they didn't have the energy I was looking for.

 

[DonJefe19]

These are all good suggestions and I'm going to apply them this week. When I get to that same place Thursday night, I won't plan on doing any cold approaches. I'll try dancing, buy some water and tip the staff and make conversations with the people there. I'll be in observation mode.

I've been approached by women at this place before, the problem is that they didn't have the energy I was looking for.

Maybe instead of going dancing at this bar you try dancing at a venue that is about dance? These places don't make alcohol the main focus and most chicks there also want to dance.

 

[Plinco]

Maybe instead of going dancing at this bar you try dancing at a venue that is about dance? These places don't make alcohol the main focus and most chicks there also want to dance.

That's basically what this place is.

 

[Bigpapa]

Just reading between the lines because I wasn't there, but it just sounds like an unfortunate sign of the times to some extent.
Me and my friends used to 'burn venues down' when we were looking to pull and approach a tonne of hot young girls since we all know it's a numbers game. When I was getting my lay count way up there and getting laid on a large percentage of nights I went out, I was probably approaching like 50+ hot girls per night who were usually half my age lol (them 18, me 36)

But even that is maybe getting harder and harder to do as simply being seen 'hitting on girls' isn't really allowed anymore, depending on which country or state you live in.

You might need to limit your approaches too just a handful and then move too a different bar to hit on new girls! rinse-repeat

In terms of being 'creepy', again, I wasn't there, but i'm gonna assume you weren't being 'creepy'. That is mostly just a term girls use when a guy who they don't think is 'hot' (and thus aren't attracted too) shows a clear romantic interest in them. You just have to eat that i'm afraid! It's always been that way!
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A big issue, as the bouncer is concerned, is that he had a guy approaching girls but without making any consummation

then one or multiple girls went to the staff and complained that there is a guy hitting on girls, which automatically made the bouncer intervene as from his point of view a guy that was not brining money to the business was creating problems

I think also that the bouncer was very well mannered and most likely understood very well and thus why he told you that you are not banned as long as you will start becoming a good customer

The first rule of going out is to befriend the stuff and be a good costumer

 

[Plinco]

Update:

I went back there tonight and tipped the staff $2. Originally I thought about tipping $50, but every time I thought about it, I keep getting cheaper until I settled on $2. I tried dancing, which I haven't done in years, and I was about two steps behind everyone, but that got me more focused and starting dancing faster, (and a little too creatively). @Scaramouche excellent advice! I felt much better when I was dancing, even though I wasn't doing very good with it. I made small talk with a handful of people there, and approached the bouncer who asked me to leave to talk to him for a few minutes.

I can totally dance, after I get some practice. I got this.

I'm thinking about going to Orlando tomorrow and do some clothes shopping, I'll do some approaches if I see any girls who I'd want to talk to.

 

[Scaramouche]

Hi Plinco,
Great idea,you found a very suitable venue to take young fillies to...As @Bigpapa suggests knowing the Staff is a big plus,if you can address them by name it goes down very well indeed....Now find beginners Dance classes in the area,you will be a big hit,become a Dance Floor Predator,because now you have somewhere to take your likely Lasses.

 

[Solomon]

*To make this constructive, do not tell me not to hit on college girls.

I was at a club/bar on this Thursday night and after direct cold approaching five young ladies I get approached by a bouncer telling me to leave because he said that he got a couple of complaints about me from girls, and he didn't like the fact that I had circled the area a few times. He said that I could come back but I should buy something next time.

I was thinking, for the next time I go there, since I don't drink alcohol, I can offer to tip them 20 bucks, and I should be a bit more discreet about circling the dance floor area. I thought about going back there next week.

As far as approaching, I don't think I did anything wrong there.

If you think I should do anything different, please let me know.

I'm curious cause I didn't read most of the comments, was the place busy?
When you go out by yourself it's all about calibration. I use to go out with a RSD guy who would approach all the women he found attractive within literally minutes (usually 15) and if he got blown out by all would want to leave right away for another venue etc.

It got to a point where It stopped being fun because I was at the stage already where I went out to enjoy a drink and scoialize and not just pick up. I say this to say when you go out are you aware of the place being busy or not? the ratio of women to men? the music? the bar etc. This is all where situational awareness and calibration comes in

 

[Plinco]

I'm curious cause I didn't read most of the comments, was the place busy?

Oh yes, every night I go there.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Update:

I went back there tonight and tipped the staff $2. Originally I thought about tipping $50, but every time I thought about it, I keep getting cheaper until I settled on $2. I tried dancing, which I haven't done in years, and I was about two steps behind everyone, but that got me more focused and starting dancing faster, (and a little too creatively). @Scaramouche excellent advice! I felt much better when I was dancing, even though I wasn't doing very good with it. I made small talk with a handful of people there, and approached the bouncer who asked me to leave to talk to him for a few minutes.

I can totally dance, after I get some practice. I got this.

I'm thinking about going to Orlando tomorrow and do some clothes shopping, I'll do some approaches if I see any girls who I'd want to talk to.

$2? Honestly that might have insulted them more than them appreciating it. I'm not saying give them $50, but if you are going to tip them then you actually have to tip them something worthwhile.

Although I'm not sure why you feel the need to tip them.

 

[Divorced w 3]

$2? Honestly that might have insulted them more than them appreciating it. I'm not saying give them $50, but if you are going to tip them then you actually have to tip them something worthwhile.

Although I'm not sure why you feel the need to tip them.

Jfc what a waste of energy this thread has become. 75 posts on how to handle one’s self in a bar when not drinking, none of that advice was followed, this is what this place is turning into, this type of thread where members are trying to give advice to someone who is not listening to a word being said

 

[Divorced w 3]

Update:

I went back there tonight and tipped the staff $2. Originally I thought about tipping $50, but every time I thought about it, I keep getting cheaper until I settled on $2. I tried dancing, which I haven't done in years, and I was about two steps behind everyone, but that got me more focused and starting dancing faster, (and a little too creatively). @Scaramouche excellent advice! I felt much better when I was dancing, even though I wasn't doing very good with it. I made small talk with a handful of people there, and approached the bouncer who asked me to leave to talk to him for a few minutes.

I can totally dance, after I get some practice. I got this.

I'm thinking about going to Orlando tomorrow and do some clothes shopping, I'll do some approaches if I see any girls who I'd want to talk to.

You’re actually worse troll a troll.. this is the last thing I am going to say and people here continuing to actually respond to you are insane for wasting their energy unless they have nothing else to do with their time either, you want to experience something that costs money without being willing to shell out the cost of being there, you must be a hell of a great time to hang out with.