Fr? Keep your mind on the grind and result will follow

[Vanderdonck]

My "how" is pretty damn simple.

I "looksmax" and stress "bodygame".

I strongly advocate for men to hit the gym in efforts to build muscle mass and lose excess fat...becoming better physical versions of themselves.

A byproduct of doing these things is the development of confidence, but this confidence is for YOU, not for the women to sniff and detect (if they do, then fine..but the confidence is for you, not them).

This newly acquired confidence will push YOU to become the leader in the approach and interaction, by boldly stepping to women and having the conversation go wherever you want it to go.

That, is what I'm advocating.

If you walk into a joint and there are 10 women there, at least 3 of them should be checking you out with lustful eyes .

Or, at the very least, even if they aren't checking you out with lustful eyes, you should be able to exchange contact info with at least 3 of them (of whom you're attracted)...because of their interest in you.

That, is my "how".



Right, because they find you physically attractive.

They aren't going out their way to talk to you or make eyes because..

"You seem to have so much confidence, and I couldn't resist coming to talk to you".

Yeah, ok.



The conflict is; the OP first had a "lead with your wallet" mentality to his post...which is not the right message to be spreading...as it promotes weak, simp ass mentalities.

Second, the OP (and others) promotion of the aura of confidence, is oversimplified.

Third, and granted, this was all within the context of OP's message of "stay on your grind & purpose...focus on the $$ bag", which I'm all for...

But then OP took it a step further by suggesting men to not cold approach in the meantime, as if there is conflict between grind & hustle, and new pursuits of women.

I disagreed, and still do.

And here we are.

Good explanation - thank you. I think all of this folds into the same thing. I.e. your inner confidence will help manifest your outward physical attractiveness. Maybe it's a chicken/egg thing or some guys are just born hot so it starts there but others have to learn it. Who knows.

 

[Vanderdonck]

When I'm fuking her, I'm fuking her body, not her personality.

So, she is a 10, as I said.

Regarding this, I guess we are different.

I'm fukking everything, not just her body. I can't be attracted to a woman without getting to know her at least a little, otherwise she is just a mannequin. Lots of women have nice bodies but that does not make them attractive and definitely not a 10 in my book. She has to earn it by demonstrating something besides looks. If she's got a killer bod but a bytchy or grey rock personality her value drops tremendously and it's a hard next.

I'd be curious to know what others think but I've never agreed with the "you're fukking her body only" trope. To me it's a scarcity mindset. In fact it can get a lot of naive guys into trouble with horrible women.

 

[Gamisch]

Regarding this, I guess we are different.

I'm fukking everything, not just her body. I can't be attracted to a woman without getting to know her at least a little, otherwise she is just a mannequin. Lots of women have nice bodies but that does not make them attractive and definitely not a 10 in my book. She has to earn it by demonstrating something besides looks. If she's got a killer bod but a bytchy or grey rock personality her value drops tremendously and it's a hard next.

I'd be curious to know what others think but I've never agreed with the "you're fukking her body only" trope. To me it's a scarcity mindset. In fact it can get a lot of naive guys into trouble with horrible women.

Great point

Again, I'm happy to see more and more members are operating on this HIGH LEVEL MENTAL GAME. This makes it easier to see eye to eye with women who are also operating on game on a mentally high level ( which can be most women that are hb6+).

I went through a dryspell earlier this year, mainly because my ENERGY was off. A 6 pack or a 4 pack doesn't matter , matter a fact I was basically rocking an 8 pack during those months. But women rightfully rejected me because my energy was off. A great life lesson.

When you " train" yourself to do what you just said( to WANT to feck her mind as well) most hot women will pick up on this. I tried to explain this to some of my incel homies but it was FAR beyond their scope. Plus their eagerness and sexual starvation blurred their minds. Eventually most of them went passport bro, taking on that HUGE burden of immediately importing and moving in with a stranger while having zero to no game to keep her in check..a devastating strategy ofcourse

 

[tksniper]

While it’s debatable whether or not money can help, lack of money can definitely hurt you.

Case in point - when I was in my 20’s I was a no life seducer. I read the book “the game” by Neil Strauss and dropped out of college and got an apartment with some fellow pickup artist friends and we would spend 12 hours a day/5 days a week gaming (women) while working mediocre jobs. My hobbies were going to the gym and gaming chicks, nothing else.

Let me give you a field/lay report to show you guys how being unbalanced can hurt you- I remember one time I was hanging out in the Marina in San Francisco. Some hot chick walked by and a buddy of mines pointed her out. I turned around and grabbed her arm and said “Who are you?” (This was back in the 2000’s so you could approach women with kino without getting arrested). She said “I’m the girl who’s about to go home.” I then said “No, you’re my new girlfriend for the next 15 minutes. Where are we going on our first adventurous date?” Then she responded with “How about to the diner down the block?”

While my approach sounded cheesy as hell (a lot of stuff women fall for sounds cheesy to most guys), it’s called “future projections” in the PUA community where you project you and her into the future and skip all the “getting to know” rapport building crap. As a guy who was approaching hundreds of women every week, building rapport felt like pulling teeth. I just wanted to get straight to it.

Anyway after we grabbed some food we walked to her apartment which was exactly 1 block away from the diner (talk about perfect logistics). We sat on the bench outside her apartment and she ended up giving me last minute resistance. Out of nowhere she said “You’re not coming in.” For most guys they would probably crumble at this point. But I was a seasoned veteran at the time and I knew the correct move was to change the frame.

So I totally ignored what she said (never acknowledge a frame that doesn’t move things forward) and asked her if she’s been reading good books lately. She mentioned some books and I said “There’s the is really great book called The 7 principles of highly effective people. It changed my life. Have you ever read it?” She said no and then I said “Yeah we should definitely read it together. It’s actually online. Do you have internet?” She said yes and then said l said “Let’s go upstairs and read it.” And just like that we went to her room and the clothes came off. This is called “plausible deniability.” An excuse to be alone without mentioning sex. It helps her overcome her anti-slvt defense. The total time from the streets to her bedroom was about 20 minutes. It was one of my fastest seductions.

But the next morning everything went downhill. I wanted to have sex again but she wanted to go out for breakfast. I suggested we make breakfast at home but she said she didn’t have any groceries. The truth was I had just paid my rent and bills and where she wanted to go was expensive (everything in SF is expensive). Long story short she felt I was trying to use her for sex and money and ended up kicking me out of her apartment. Lmao. I got kicked out because I was too broke for breakfast. She was a catch too. She was 24, an 8/10 on the looks scale, going medical school, and lived in a $2,500/month apartment in a rich neighborhood. Meanwhile I was a bum that she let into her bedroom at 2 am.

There would be many more women like her where I would punch above my weight class and the women wished they had never met me. I was the guy that ruined it for the next guy and made the woman lose all trust in men, lol. I was using game to overcompensate for lack of success elsewhere in my life. In the end I ended up depressed and quit the game to go back to college.

And when I went back to college I thought to myself “wait a minute, why did I wasted 4 years of my life as a no life pickup artist????? There’s chicks everywhere in college. And none of these chicks care I got no money. I could have just been a normal a$$ dude and gotten laid anyway.”

And the answer was EGO. I wasn’t chasing after chicks. I was chasing after my ego. Chicks was easy. But my ego was never satisfied. It always wanted more. 50 lays, 100 lays, 150 lays. Lays at 2 am in less than 20 minutes. Lays with married women. Lays with lesbians. The impossible lays.

I think this is a challenge when you’re a good looking guy. Your ego wants to use women to achieve greatness. But take it from me. There is no greatness that comes from being able to get laid while lacking in other areas of life. Greatness comes from being a fully integrated man. A man who is healthy and fit, financially free, spiritually evolved, contributing to society and offering value to those around him, and is continuously improving in all facets every day. To me, that’s greatness. To be complete and being able to teach others how to be complete.

We can’t use women as a measuring stick to success. They should be considered an easy afterthought.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

Good explanation - thank you. I think all of this folds into the same thing. I.e. your inner confidence will help manifest your outward physical attractiveness. Maybe it's a chicken/egg thing or some guys are just born hot so it starts there but others have to learn it. Who knows.

A few years ago, I recall AlphaMaleStrategies (AMS) and Mr Locario having an indirect debate (a bunch of back & forth response videos) about a man's confidence.

MrLocario: Confidence should come from within. A man should think he is the shiit, regardless of the outcome (results).

AMS: Confidence comes from results. If a man isn't getting his desired results, then wtf does he have to be confident about?

Two opposite ends of the spectrum here.

I am middle ground, as I believe confidence is more of a pendulum, going back and forth, high/low, depending on the day and time.

My main beef here is; @Gamisch seems to have this mentality of..

"You don't need to cold approach, because if you focus on your purpose and in the meantime get the $$ bag, this will build confidence and women will sniff you (it) out and come to you".

That's essentially what he's saying..and I just think it's bullshiit.

 

[Bigpapa]

While it’s debatable whether or not money can help, lack of money can definitely hurt you.

Case in point - when I was in my 20’s I was a no life seducer. I read the book “the game” by Neil Strauss and dropped out of college and got an apartment with some fellow pickup artist friends and we would spend 12 hours a day/5 days a week gaming (women) while working mediocre jobs. My hobbies were going to the gym and gaming chicks, nothing else.

Let me give you a field/lay report to show you guys how being unbalanced can hurt you- I remember one time I was hanging out in the Marina in San Francisco. Some hot chick walked by and a buddy of mines pointed her out. I turned around and grabbed her arm and said “Who are you?” (This was back in the 2000’s so you could approach women with kino without getting arrested). She said “I’m the girl who’s about to go home.” I then said “No, you’re my new girlfriend for the next 15 minutes. Where are we going on our first adventurous date?” Then she responded with “How about to the diner down the block?”

While my approach sounded cheesy as hell (a lot of stuff women fall for sounds cheesy to most guys), it’s called “future projections” in the PUA community where you project you and her into the future and skip all the “getting to know” rapport building crap. As a guy who was approaching hundreds of women every week, building rapport felt like pulling teeth. I just wanted to get straight to it.

Anyway after we grabbed some food we walked to her apartment which was exactly 1 block away from the diner (talk about perfect logistics). We sat on the bench outside her apartment and she ended up giving me last minute resistance. Out of nowhere she said “You’re not coming in.” For most guys they would probably crumble at this point. But I was a seasoned veteran at the time and I knew the correct move was to change the frame.

So I totally ignored what she said (never acknowledge a frame that doesn’t move things forward) and asked her if she’s been reading good books lately. She mentioned some books and I said “There’s the is really great book called The 7 principles of highly effective people. It changed my life. Have you ever read it?” She said no and then I said “Yeah we should definitely read it together. It’s actually online. Do you have internet?” She said yes and then said l said “Let’s go upstairs and read it.” And just like that we went to her room and the clothes came off. This is called “plausible deniability.” An excuse to be alone without mentioning sex. It helps her overcome her anti-slvt defense. The total time from the streets to her bedroom was about 20 minutes. It was one of my fastest seductions.

But the next morning everything went downhill. I wanted to have sex again but she wanted to go out for breakfast. I suggested we make breakfast at home but she said she didn’t have any groceries. The truth was I had just paid my rent and bills and where she wanted to go was expensive (everything in SF is expensive). Long story short she felt I was trying to use her for sex and money and ended up kicking me out of her apartment. Lmao. I got kicked out because I was too broke for breakfast. She was a catch too. She was 24, an 8/10 on the looks scale, going medical school, and lived in a $2,500/month apartment in a rich neighborhood. Meanwhile I was a bum that she let into her bedroom at 2 am.

There would be many more women like her where I would punch above my weight class and the women wished they had never met me. I was the guy that ruined it for the next guy and made the woman lose all trust in men, lol. I was using game to overcompensate for lack of success elsewhere in my life. In the end I ended up depressed and quit the game to go back to college.

And when I went back to college I thought to myself “wait a minute, why did I wasted 4 years of my life as a no life pickup artist????? There’s chicks everywhere in college. And none of these chicks care I got no money. I could have just been a normal a$$ dude and gotten laid anyway.”

And the answer was EGO. I wasn’t chasing after chicks. I was chasing after my ego. Chicks was easy. But my ego was never satisfied. It always wanted more. 50 lays, 100 lays, 150 lays. Lays at 2 am in less than 20 minutes. Lays with married women. Lays with lesbians. The impossible lays.

I think this is a challenge when you’re a good looking guy. Your ego wants to use women to achieve greatness. But take it from me. There is no greatness that comes from being able to get laid while lacking in other areas of life. Greatness comes from being a fully integrated man. A man who is healthy and fit, financially free, spiritually evolved, contributing to society and offering value to those around him, and is continuously improving in all facets every day. To me, that’s greatness. To be complete and being able to teach others how to be complete.

We can’t use women as a measuring stick to success. They should be considered an easy afterthought.

really good story bro

I never focused solely on pua stuff in my youth, but was successful enough to realize that maximum you can get from women is an ego boost, which in return makes you lazy

Women deliver a lot of value if you are in a LTR or some sort like that, as long as she is a good partner and not that egoistical herself. Besides that, just some p8ssy

 

[Travel memoir21]

Lol what about that hippie stoner dude, who likes to smoke ganja all day? sleep and take naps all day, order a few pizza and then goes out on a Friday night and is able to pull? What do you call those dudes? haha

 

[Gamisch]

A few years ago, I recall AlphaMaleStrategies (AMS) and Mr Locario having an indirect debate (a bunch of back & forth response videos) about a man's confidence.

MrLocario: Confidence should come from within. A man should think he is the shiit, regardless of the outcome (results).

AMS: Confidence comes from results. If a man isn't getting his desired results, then wtf does he have to be confident about?

Two opposite ends of the spectrum here.

I am middle ground, as I believe confidence is more of a pendulum, going back and forth, high/low, depending on the day and time.

My main beef here is; @Gamisch seems to have this mentality of..

"You don't need to cold approach, because if you focus on your purpose and in the meantime get the $$ bag, this will build confidence and women will sniff you (it) out and come to you".

That's essentially what he's saying..and I just think it's bullshiit.

We had 50 % of women ( assuming there are two prominent female members) confirm what I said.

Then @tksniper wrote a PERFECT story voicing EXACTLY what I mean. Even you liked it!!

You said it perfectly; women will sniff it indeed. Women will sense it. Tbh, if you observe with a sharp eye you can sense it from other dudes as well, " just because" you're sizing up possible competition . I've seen 5,5 dudes oozing confidence and being the brightest light on the room. Bald dudes killing it. Small Asian dudes. Indian dudes. Nerdy looking white dudes. Confidence is something that's untouchable bit yet can be felt.

I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[Gamisch]

While it’s debatable whether or not money can help, lack of money can definitely hurt you.

Case in point - when I was in my 20’s I was a no life seducer. I read the book “the game” by Neil Strauss and dropped out of college and got an apartment with some fellow pickup artist friends and we would spend 12 hours a day/5 days a week gaming (women) while working mediocre jobs. My hobbies were going to the gym and gaming chicks, nothing else.

Let me give you a field/lay report to show you guys how being unbalanced can hurt you- I remember one time I was hanging out in the Marina in San Francisco. Some hot chick walked by and a buddy of mines pointed her out. I turned around and grabbed her arm and said “Who are you?” (This was back in the 2000’s so you could approach women with kino without getting arrested). She said “I’m the girl who’s about to go home.” I then said “No, you’re my new girlfriend for the next 15 minutes. Where are we going on our first adventurous date?” Then she responded with “How about to the diner down the block?”

While my approach sounded cheesy as hell (a lot of stuff women fall for sounds cheesy to most guys), it’s called “future projections” in the PUA community where you project you and her into the future and skip all the “getting to know” rapport building crap. As a guy who was approaching hundreds of women every week, building rapport felt like pulling teeth. I just wanted to get straight to it.

Anyway after we grabbed some food we walked to her apartment which was exactly 1 block away from the diner (talk about perfect logistics). We sat on the bench outside her apartment and she ended up giving me last minute resistance. Out of nowhere she said “You’re not coming in.” For most guys they would probably crumble at this point. But I was a seasoned veteran at the time and I knew the correct move was to change the frame.

So I totally ignored what she said (never acknowledge a frame that doesn’t move things forward) and asked her if she’s been reading good books lately. She mentioned some books and I said “There’s the is really great book called The 7 principles of highly effective people. It changed my life. Have you ever read it?” She said no and then I said “Yeah we should definitely read it together. It’s actually online. Do you have internet?” She said yes and then said l said “Let’s go upstairs and read it.” And just like that we went to her room and the clothes came off. This is called “plausible deniability.” An excuse to be alone without mentioning sex. It helps her overcome her anti-slvt defense. The total time from the streets to her bedroom was about 20 minutes. It was one of my fastest seductions.

But the next morning everything went downhill. I wanted to have sex again but she wanted to go out for breakfast. I suggested we make breakfast at home but she said she didn’t have any groceries. The truth was I had just paid my rent and bills and where she wanted to go was expensive (everything in SF is expensive). Long story short she felt I was trying to use her for sex and money and ended up kicking me out of her apartment. Lmao. I got kicked out because I was too broke for breakfast. She was a catch too. She was 24, an 8/10 on the looks scale, going medical school, and lived in a $2,500/month apartment in a rich neighborhood. Meanwhile I was a bum that she let into her bedroom at 2 am.

There would be many more women like her where I would punch above my weight class and the women wished they had never met me. I was the guy that ruined it for the next guy and made the woman lose all trust in men, lol. I was using game to overcompensate for lack of success elsewhere in my life. In the end I ended up depressed and quit the game to go back to college.

And when I went back to college I thought to myself “wait a minute, why did I wasted 4 years of my life as a no life pickup artist????? There’s chicks everywhere in college. And none of these chicks care I got no money. I could have just been a normal a$$ dude and gotten laid anyway.”

And the answer was EGO. I wasn’t chasing after chicks. I was chasing after my ego. Chicks was easy. But my ego was never satisfied. It always wanted more. 50 lays, 100 lays, 150 lays. Lays at 2 am in less than 20 minutes. Lays with married women. Lays with lesbians. The impossible lays.

I think this is a challenge when you’re a good looking guy. Your ego wants to use women to achieve greatness. But take it from me. There is no greatness that comes from being able to get laid while lacking in other areas of life. Greatness comes from being a fully integrated man. A man who is healthy and fit, financially free, spiritually evolved, contributing to society and offering value to those around him, and is continuously improving in all facets every day. To me, that’s greatness. To be complete and being able to teach others how to be complete.

We can’t use women as a measuring stick to success. They should be considered an easy afterthought.

Great story, one of the better post I've seen recently. Thank you for your attribution, this basically puts a golden cover around this thread.

This is basically my story and what I'm trying to hammer home. Getting found out by a hottie due to lacking financially. It's a humiliating feeling. If you go through this multiple times ,sooner or later you be like FECK, I NEED TO LEVEL UP. Your subconscious brain tells you you can't roll like this after or in certain age/ notch count/ phase/ area ect.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

We had 50 % of women ( assuming there are two prominent female members) confirm what I said.

Then I disagree with all 3 of ya.

Then @tksniper wrote a PERFECT story voicing EXACTLY what I mean. Even you liked it!!

I liked it because it was an well-written, intriguing story.

@tksniper actually confirmed what I said.

He said that the woman stopped talking to him when she found out he was broke, which means that she would have stayed with him if he'd had money.

Do you know what we call women like that?

Golddiggers!!

^Which is precisely what you'll reel in, if you lead with your wallet...as that is what golddiggers are all about.

He also stated that, (at least back then) he had a "direct approach" mentality, when he stated that he was a "cut the bullshiit, let's get to it" kind of guy...which, if you've known me, you know that's what I'm about as well.

So, far from him sharing your sentiments.

You said it perfectly; women will sniff it indeed. Women will sense it. Tbh, if you observe with a sharp eye you can sense it from other dudes as well, " just because" you're sizing up possible competition . I've seen 5,5 dudes oozing confidence and being the brightest light on the room. Bald dudes killing it. Small Asian dudes. Indian dudes. Nerdy looking white dudes. Confidence is something that's untouchable bit yet can be felt.

I don't know what else to tell you.

A guy can be generally confident as a person, but when it comes to expressing his intentions (and himself) to women in particular, he becomes a verbal coward...a scared puzzy cat.

So, which of these two confidences is she sniffing?

I rest my case.

 

[plumber]

Then I disagree with all 3 of ya.



I liked it because it was an well-written, intriguing story.

@tksniper actually confirmed what I said.

He said that the woman stopped talking to him when she found out he was broke, which means that she would have stayed with him if he'd had money.

Do you know what we call women like that?

Golddiggers!!

^Which is precisely what you'll reel in, if you lead with your wallet...as that is what golddiggers are all about.

He also stated that, (at least back then) he had a "direct approach" mentality, when he stated that he was a "cut the bullshiit, let's get to it" kind of guy...which, if you've known me, you know that's what I'm about as well.

So, far from him sharing your sentiments.



A guy can be generally confident as a person, but when it comes to expressing his intentions (and himself) to women in particular, he becomes a verbal coward...a scared puzzy cat.

So, which of these two confidences is she sniffing?

I rest my case.

as i follow this thread. the part that is hidden is the cause of confidence in men. pretty much it is chemical. women can smell the chemicals. its the most misunderstood part of the entire topic.

your right confidence is king. what is the cause of confidence that is what men need to know. its not something that we can convince ourselves of.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

as i follow this thread. the part that is hidden is the cause of confidence in men. pretty much it is chemical. women can smell the chemicals.

 

[Clockwerk50]

So who won the argument?

 

[Sega Genesis]

I am middle ground, as I believe confidence is more of a pendulum, going back and forth, high/low, depending on the day and time.

^^ Exacty Venom and that is precisely what I've been trying to get you to acknowledge.

Your confidence is gonna swing in either direction (high/low) depending on .... how you feel internally that day, IOW your energy at that particular point in time.

As you said.... depending.

And whatever state you're in, you will project that energy to the outside world in this case, women!

And trust me we can sense your energy whether high or low and believe me when I say a man with good positive high energy/confidence has got a much better chance of getting the girl than a man with low energy/confidence no matter how hot he is!

I don't NOT believe in cold approach. I met an ex boyfriend on a cold approach. I had NO idea how much money he had or made or how financially successful he was

I could not sense that, what I did notice was how confident he was, how sure of himself he was, in other words his high energy and confidence!

Anyway......

It was completely spontaneous or that's how it appeared to me.. but hell he could have scoped me out and planned the whole thing for all I know!

But when we met and he approached, he exuded confidence and high energy and we connected.

Had he been feeling low that day with low energy/confidence, he probably wouldn't have even approached or if he had our interaction would have been much different and I, in all likelihood, would NOT have been as attracted to him.

It's all connected Venom - his looks, his confidence, his energy.

For many women NOT all. I have a friend I think I've mentioned her to you - all she requires is that he have a hot body and he's willing to have sex with her.

When that happens she's in!!

So yeah there are women like that too.

 

[Cheeky_James]

as i follow this thread. the part that is hidden is the cause of confidence in men. pretty much it is chemical. women can smell the chemicals. its the most misunderstood part of the entire topic.

your right confidence is king. what is the cause of confidence that is what men need to know. its not something that we can convince ourselves of.

A good point. there is something to this for sure100%.

take on it and referencing some old PUA lit;
I remember Paul Janka wrote a fair bit about ‘Mojo’ in one of his books, along the lines of “ a man’s mojo is highest just after he’s gotten laid with a new woman”.
I defnly have noticed this in action. Id describe it as like other chicks can ‘sniff the pu$$y’ off me (lol) more seem to start perking up or opening up quicker.

a guy who has gotten laid also has a certain swagger to him, his walk, etc also. The non verbals. They can spot that too

As to what chemicals they are smelling - it’s probably high levels of testosterone. That “T-fizz” plus the juices of other females . Defnly!

 

[Gamisch]

Then I disagree with all 3 of ya.

I liked it because it was an well-written, intriguing story.

@tksniper actually confirmed what I said.

He said that the woman stopped talking to him when she found out he was broke, which means that she would have stayed with him if he'd had money.

Do you know what we call women like that?

Golddiggers!!

Thats an gross oversimplification of the nature of the Imo the sentiment was EXACTLY what I meant: namely thay its all nice and dandy untill shawty fimdos out you a broke azz. A little too easy to say all women who have theit shyte together and expect the same from men are golddiggers. Imo it's a weak excuse at best.

^Which is precisely what you'll reel in, if you lead with your wallet...as that is what golddiggers are all about.

Any agrument is pointless ime party( you) cant pivot. Ive stated multiple times I don't lead with my wallet at all but it seems like it's one of the few things you wanna hold on to. When you argue they listen and pivot. So open those ears once more and READ what I said. No.man should lead with his wallet although his wallet is an extremely important aspect when dating hot women.

He also stated that, (at least back then) he had a "direct approach" mentality, when he stated that he was a "cut the bullshiit, let's get to it" kind of guy...which, if you've known me, you know that's what I'm about as well.

So, far from him sharing your sentiments.

Read it again. He clearly stated he felt embarrassed when she found him out. Some men (like me) go through this a couple of times before they get tired of THAT part of the game: the embarrassing aftermath.

A guy can be generally as a person, but when it comes to expressing his intentions (and himself) to women in particular, he becomes a verbal coward...a scared puzzy cat.

So, which of these two confidences is she sniffing?

I rest my case.

But a guy can ALSO be confident AND verbally on point...if I recall correctly, that's why most men are here. To be that ultimate guy who operates om a high level on all aspects.

Case stays open.

 

[We_ArE_VeNOM]

So who won the argument?

I did.

 

[Cheeky_James]

I’m an older guy with a bit of success in pickup back in the day. Here’s mah 2cents.

What is really the most attractive attribute for a man to have or try to cultivate?

it’s perception of Power. Period.

some kind of power.

That’s the ‘meta attribute’ to try to cultivate or radiate out somehow in *whatever way* it can be done.

i think some posters here (the females) are actually describing that as an aura /vibe/ energy/charisma etc.

but that’s annoyingly vague chick speak to me.

they really mean a ‘power-vibe’ .

Power be assessed *very* quickly by women but it can take various forms /be different in various contexts..

a guy can either get actual physical power by getting ripped, bodybuilding etc. Yep. No question. Physical presence is very powerful.

Or a guy can create a *perception of power in other ways
This possibly harder to learn tbh and can’t really be learned just from books /videos etc - it kinda has to be seen in action to model it and apply to oneself and has limits to the environment.

either /either can work.

what’s the shorter route to success tho? Hard to say.

How long does it take to bodybuild , get a bigger physical presence and cultivate a bad boy archetype?

vs having a role model /mentor /coach available IRL for the more social gamey route.

depends on a few factors.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I did.

That’s what’s up

 

[Vanderdonck]

So who won the argument?

This is Sosuave, it isn't over until someone gets banned.

In seriousness, it's nice to see two smart guys debate without insults. (At least that I've seen.) So we're all winners!