Men Are Tired of Women Not Paying for Dates

[BadBoy89]

Letter from a man to an advice columnist.

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“Men Are Tired of Women Not Paying for Dates” - Dear Wendy

"I recently started dating a woman. We’re really into each, but there's one issue – money! After seven dates, I seem to be doing most of the paying..."

dearwendy.com

I recently started dating a girl. We enjoy each other’s company and share many commonalities. There’s only one issue – money! After seven dates, I seem to be doing most of the paying (as per usual when a man is courting a woman).

A few weeks ago, she asked me if I wanted to go see a concert which was $99 per ticket. I wasn’t interested in going and told her so. In the end, she never went. Was she seriously expecting me to pay for both tickets? Nearly $200! On one date I paid for two coffees and later on for a pizza. She should have offered to pay for the pizza. She did buy me a drink on one date (hooray) and she bought a fast food meal on another (hooray) but for the most part, I’ve done most (90%) of the paying.

On our most recent date, we had organized to go to the movies. I told her, prior to meeting her, to go to the supermarket to buy some popcorn or chocolate because it’s cheap. She told me she was happy to buy the popcorn at the movies. When I got there, I walked up to the counter to pay for two movie tickets and she was at the bar buying herself a drink.

We then sat down and she said she had forgotten to ask if I wanted a drink. (How could she forget to offer me a drink? She saw me buying the movie tickets.) I declined, but then after five minutes, I said to her that I’d have that drink anyway. So she bought me a drink. She did end up buying the popcorn and chocolate from the supermarket, so we had them during the movie.

After the movie, we decided to go for coffee. Guess who paid for this? I don’t mean to sound cheap, but she should have paid for the coffees. In fact, she should have paid for the movie tickets because the previous week I had paid for dinner.
This isn’t the first woman that I’ve had to spend money on. There’ve been others, of course. I’ve heard complaints from friends and other men about women NOT offering to pay. And you know what? I’m tired of it. Men are tired of it.

I’ve paid off my mortgage (she doesn’t know this) but earn an average salary. She’s got a big mortgage but earns slightly more than I do. But that’s not the point. Men and women are equal, right? A lot of women are more highly educated and many make more money than the males. Right? Women have purses with cash and credit cards in them. Right? These women are not poor or helpless or dependent. I think I’m right.

I don’t know how women get this old-fashioned mindset, but it’s really starting to annoy me. Personally, I work just as hard as any woman does for my money and I don’t find it fair. It would be nice if a woman offers to pay more often for a change. It’s about being appreciated and not taken advantage of. I am not cheap, but at the same time, I am not made of money. Does it make me a bad person to be thinking this way? I am a liberal, progressive thinker, and this traditional old-fashioned mindset seems backwards to me.

Where is it written that men have to pay on dates? Why can’t the man and woman split the bill or take it in turns? Aren’t men and women equal? How do I mention this to her without sounding cheap? — Not an ATM

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Thoughts?

 

[BaronOfHair]

Thoughts?

As folks were saying all the way back in The 2000s, don't do anything that puts her in a dating frame of mind... Invite her to go to the pool or beach with you, go shopping with you, etc etc. If you offer to pay for someone else to keep you company, don't be surprised when they pounce on every free lunch you serve up to them

 

[Solomon]

My last "Date" was in May a hottie who drove from out of town. SInce she was paying up for a hotel I wanted to show her a good time. Yeah I know I broke every rule int he book movie, dinner date etc. It was a waste of time and money as she didn't want to go back to have fun in her hotel. Needless to say I haven't been on a date since, although I have linked/hooked up with half a dozen chicks since

 

[The Duke]

This guy needs to make his expectations more clear. If I had an issue and felt she needed to pay more often, I would simply suggest it. For example in regards to the concert:

Yeah, the concert sounds great. I will get the tickets, can you buy our drinks?

Be clear with your expectations, its part of leading in a relationship. She can choose to meet them or date someone else. If she leaves, she wasn't the girl for you.

I once dated a girl that had an expensive house, cars, and boat. I think she spent more money than she made and put herself in a bind. I eventually got tired of paying for everything and told her if she wanted to go to this concert that I would buy the tickets, and she would buy the drinks. She agreed. About an hour before I pick her up she texts to tell me to bring my Crown Royal. I figured she wanted to have a drink before the concert. So I get to her house, she gets my bottle of Crown and starts filling plastic bottles and stuffs them in her purse. I asked her what she was doing and she said "Getting our Drinks for the concert". She said she would buy coke at the concert and mix my crown in! LOL. Well Played T!Ts.
That was the last time I ever took her out.

My last "Date" was in May a hottie who drove from out of town. SInce she was paying up for a hotel I wanted to show her a good time. Yeah I know I broke every rule int he book movie, dinner date etc. It was a waste of time and money as she didn't want to go back to have fun in her hotel. Needless to say I haven't been on a date since, although I have linked/hooked up with half a dozen chicks since

Hey what you lose on one investment you double or triple your money on the others!

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Most women I have dated WANT to pay their share...I would say this women just isn't into him as much as he may think and sees him as a free meal ticket.

Would not be surprised if he hasn't even fvcked her yes based on how frustrated he seems to be.

 

[plumber]

i really don't care if the woman pay or not pay. its nice if she reciprocates girl style. i pay for the date... next meeting is at her house and she cooks and provides all.

if she doesn't have money it is different than if she does.

i guess if i was a girl i would want the guy to have money. as a guy, i don't really care.

she can live in my world with me while with me. if she wants to take part of my stuff/money away with her, it is a hard no.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Did anyone read the female blogger’s response to that letter? She literally brought up rape and abortion laws in response.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Early in, my boyfriend and I went to dinner. It was a mutual decision after a day at the beach..

When the check came, he said "this is on me, I'll let you get it next time" (with a wink and a smile).

Biggest turn on!! The boldness, assertiveness and confidence!

I absolutely agree with stating your expectations boldly and confidently and that it's part of leading...

It's all in the delivery and you might be surprised how positively many women will respond to it.

Assuming she's into you of course...

If she makes a stink, her interest is low, next her.

P.S And this is coming from a woman who was raised to believe (and expect) that men should pay for everything.

Thankfully I've evolved from that...

 

[Sega Genesis]

I also want to add that for many women (and I used to feel this way), a man paying is a literal turn on... sexually. It's not always about entitlement.. sometimes it is, just not always.

There's a certain masculine/feminine polarity element to it; he's the strong provider and protector. The dominant leader who's gonna take care of things.

However paying is not necessary to create that same dynamic.

Aa long as you are assertively and confidently stating your expectations and directing her to pay (with a wink of course) she will still feel that sense of safety that you're taking charge and gonna take care of things which again is a huge turn on sexually ...

Try it!

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Did anyone read the female blogger’s response to that letter? She literally brought up rape and abortion laws in response.

Issues which are best addressed by staying the F home

And/or getting therapy

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I also want to add that for many women (and I used to feel this way), a man paying is a literal turn on... sexually. It's not always about entitlement.. sometimes it is, just not always.

There's a certain masculine/feminine polarity element to it; he's the strong provider and protector. A strong leader who's gonna take care of things!

However paying is not necessary to create that same dynamic.

Aa long as you are assertively and confidently stating your expectations and directing her to pay (with a wink of course) she will still feel that sense of safety that you're taking charge and gonna take care of things which again is a huge turn on sexually ...

Try it!

I've often found that on first dates of a woman insists on paying for her drink or whatever we are doing it's likely because she is ensuring there is "nothing owed" because she isn't planning on seeing you again.

Which I find weird that guys would have some sort of expectation but apparently they do.

 

[Sega Genesis]

I've often found that on first dates of a woman insists on paying for her drink or whatever we are doing it's likely because she is ensuring there is "nothing owed" because she isn't planning on seeing you again.

Which I find weird that guys would have some sort of expectation but apparently they do.

That's often true.

My post was about when you've already had a few dates (and the man paid) and when it's assumed there is a mutual attraction.

In any event it's how my boyfriend handled things and it was a huge turn on.

Note he didn't ask me to pay which wouldn't have had the same effect on me.

He boldly and confidently directed me to pay... next time. With a wink. Not demanded, but directed.

Again it's all in his delivery.

 

[Vanderdonck]

S/He who asks the other out on a date should expect to pay. Usually that's the guy but there are exceptions. You're inviting the person, so you pay.

IME I've paid for drinks or some cheap activity like pool, 1-2 dates. After we've fukked (should happen no later than date 2 but again, exceptions), the girl is usually very eager to pay for stuff. Gifts, dinner, whatever. If you fukk her well she will want to keep you around.

Now there are women out there who will expect to be paid for all the time because they are old fashioned. Others are gold diggers. Still others are just stringing guys along. I've never gotten sucked in to a situation like that. Seven dates? Psh.

 

[SW15]

In the USA and many other Western nations, men pay for early stage dates because of a cultural norm from the 19th Century and pre-Sexual Revolution 20th Century. In those days, women were not working or were only working lower paid jobs. In those times, men had the money and covered all the courting/early stage dating expenses. This seemed reasonable based on conditions at the time.

In recent decades, this has seemed less reasonable as more women have entered the workforce and have obtained good paying jobs.

I am an early Gen Y/Millennial male born in the mid-1980s. I didn't start dating until circa 2000 and didn't finish college until 2005. There were many times in the 2nd half of the 2000s and first half of the 2010s where I was in the early stages of dating a woman and was paying for dates despite the fact that she was earning more than I was earning at the time. On the surface, that seemed a bit unfair to me. This has been less common since 2015 for me, but has still happened.

I have absorbed these costs without making an issue of it in an in-person setting. I have absorbed these costs for many early stages that resulted in nothing. These interactions ended with a ghosting or 2nd date offer rejection, often delivered via text message.

This cultural norm has only slightly evolved into the quote from @Vanderdonck below, where I'll continue this post.

S/He who asks the other out on a date should expect to pay. Usually that's the guy but there are exceptions. You're inviting the person, so you pay.

In close to 100% of cases, this will be the man in the earliest stages of dating. It's difficult for men to be asked out on dates by women. Only the most female empowered, "Boss Girl" corporate career women will do this. They don't even do it that much.

Men have more sexual urgency and more testosterone. Levels of male thirst for sex/relationships are getting higher and higher.

IME I've paid for drinks or some cheap activity like pool, 1-2 dates. After we've fukked (should happen no later than date 2 but again, exceptions), the girl is usually very eager to pay for stuff. Gifts, dinner, whatever. If you fukk her well she will want to keep you around.

Now there are women out there who will expect to be paid for all the time because they are old fashioned. Others are gold diggers. Still others are just stringing guys along. I've never gotten sucked in to a situation like that. Seven dates? Psh.

It's difficult to pinpoint the point in time in the relationship when men are not paying for all the dating costs. When the relationship becomes more exclusive is when men usually aren't paying for 100% of activities done when a couple spends time together.

The men who suffer the most are the men who struggle to make it through the early stages of interactions. Many men might spend more than $1,000 between girlfriends on failed early stage dates. It's not uncommon for this to happen and it doesn't take that much for it to happen.

In the late 1990s, Tom Leykis created Leykis 101, a set of rules around navigating the mating marketplace. One of the rules was keeping a maximum of $40 per date. If you were to adjust for inflation, that's around $70-$75 today. I think it is possible to keep costs under $70 per date.

If a man is expected to pay for dates in the early stages, then it is a very good idea to keep costs as low as possible.

 

[Solomon]

Hey what you lose on one investment you double or triple your money on the others!

Back in the day I would tell women I'm paying for the first date you got the 2nd. Most women whom I saw again who were into me had no problem doing so. Heck even women I date now have no problem paying for dates. The last girl I was exclusive with, we took turns paying for dates sometimes, if we did multiple things in one day we would alternate.

If a woman is never paying for dates, most likely we are not dating, then to begin with.

 

[Bokanovsky]

I also want to add that for many women (and I used to feel this way), a man paying is a literal turn on... sexually. It's not always about entitlement.. sometimes it is, just not always.

There's a certain masculine/feminine polarity element to it; he's the strong provider and protector. The dominant leader who's gonna take care of things.

That doesn't even make sense. You don't have to be "strong" to pay for someone's meal. In fact, I would argue that it's the opposite of strength. You are demonstrating weakness by falling in line with societal expectations.

Everyone likes free stuff. However, liking it to a point where it sexually turns you on is arguably not normal even in our consumerism-driven society. It sounds like some kind of a weird fetish or paraphilia.

 

[Gamisch]

It's really simple;

You oughtta be grinding so hard that you dont flinch about spending some cash on a woman during a date. I'll be hell bend to ever (again) broke- date. If Itake a woman out I'm paying period. I'll let her pay occasionally but I got my budget and life being women- proof. She's just lucky to be with me..

This post gives off broke energy first and foremost, and desperate beta energy secondly.

Dating= spending money. Period. Ofcourse there are women that will try to use men. It's on YOU as a man to see through that ish.

Get your paper up and stop whining if you wanna feck women and leave a lasting impression. It's a game as old as time.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Now there are women out there who will expect to be paid for all the time because they are old fashioned.

I've always found the term "old fashioned" highly irritating. It's one of those stupid new-age euphemisms like "the right to choose" that turns the plain meaning of the words upside down. What is so "old fashioned" about wanting to be wined and dined for free? In the old days, men didn't even take women out for dinner. Restaurants are a 20th century invention. Sure, there were taverns but the only women you'd find in them were wh0res. Real old-fashioned women stay at home and cook dinners for their husbands. That's been human custom for thousands of years.

Calling a selfish/entitled woman "old fashioned" is like calling a rapist a "consent-challenged lover". It's retarded.

 

[Sega Genesis]

Everyone likes free stuff. However, liking to a point where it sexually turns you on is arguably not normal even in our consumerism-driven society. It sounds like some kind of a weird fetish or paraphilia.

^^You missed the point. Free meals don't turn a woman on, it's the gesture of paying and how it coincides with him being a strong masculine provider and protector. Again knowing he will take care of things.

That's the turn on... for some women. Certainly not all.

Again masculine/feminine polarity, yin and yang.

It's nuanced and I don't expect all men to understand however I did appreciate the "like" from @plumber and @pipeman84, thanks guys.

That said and as I mentioned, paying is not necessary to create that same masculine/feminine polarity and dynamic.

Boldly and confidently state expectations as my boyfriend did here...

When the check came, he said "this is on me, I'll let you get it next time" (with a wink and a smile).

Note he didn't ask. He confidently told me sending the message 'this is how it's gonna be if you want to join me on my journey' ... in a playful and non-arrogant way.

That takes confidence and a certain boldness. That's the turn on...

And I did pay on our next date and was happy to do so!

 

[pipeman84]

^^You missed the point. Free meals don't turn a woman on, it the gesture of paying and how it coincides with him being a strong masculine provider and protector. Again knowing he will take care of things.

That's the turn on... for some women. Certainly not all.

I totally get this. And for all of this to work, there has to be the right combination of man and woman.
You put together a needy, beta guy and an entitled feminist and it won't work. Same actions, different result.