Provider hunters

[optinimus]

I've had quite a few dates lately where there has been a common theme.

And that theme is that the girl is very intersted in what I do for work, where I live, my education.

Stupidly, I gave these girls the boring, true answer, which is probably what leads me into a trap: I tell them I work in IT, live right in the city center, etc.

Now the problem is that there are a lot of women out there who are looking to "settle down", who are looking for a real "nice guy" kind of boyfriend who has money, and will provide for her like a good boy beta male.

I've met several women over 30 who were obvious provider hunters, but lately even a girl just 26 years old seemed to be a provider hunter, and was looking for a "serious" relationship. When I sexualized things on the date, she seemed almost offended.

All of these girls are from daygame/nightgame, btw. I don't do OLD yet (until I get some proper photos).

Maybe my Instagram profile is also a problem, since it shows me traveling a lot, at nice places, which could make the girl think I have a lot of money.

Anyway, the problem with these girls is that they are always just a massive waste of time. She won't bang you on the first date, she will make you wait, she's gonna judge you for choosing a cheap date spot, she's gonna make special rules for you, etc.

In several instances, I've had a first date with these girls where we do end up at my place, and we kiss, but nothing more. And a few days after, both of these girls would unfollow me on Instagram. It is as though they thought i would be a nice guy provider kind of guy, but they realized I was trying to bang them on the 1st date and wouldn't be the beta bucks guy.

My philosophy in life is that everything is my fault, so what am I doing wrong to attract these types of women so much lately?

Maybe I am...

• Acting too nice and not giving enough player vibes in the initial interaction.
• Giving her serious answers about my life instead of playing around, making jokes about it
• Having an Instagram which shows too much money, and not enough player vibes.
• Just having bad luck by meeting women who are in the provider hunting phase. They've been pumped n' dumped and are now looking for a sucker to provide.

I've been in the game for years, but only this/last year has this become a recurring theme for me.

What will I experiment with to avoid this issue?

• If the topic of work comes up, I will playfully avoid the subject or tell them I work in photography, which would match more with the "player" category compared to IT. (Not a lie - I have done photography before)
• Be more playful, spike more emotions to seem like less of a nice guy
• have more fun, be less serious in my vibe

Ideally, I would like to avoid even ending up on a date with a provider hunter. If the girl shows up, it should be because she has that primal attraction, not the "this guy might be a good provider" attraction.

Does anyone else out there struggle with this? Has anyone else noticed more provider hunters out there? Any recommendations?

 

[BillyPilgrim]

FFS OP if you're meeting them in daygame and nightgame, run kino on them to see how receptive they are to physicality. Use the escalation ladder.

The number of provider hunters is only going to increase with more girls getting phucked out and the world going belly up.

 

[Gamisch]

I disagree but mind you; I'm different and I'm not the most successful seed spreader on the forum..


I think you should carry yourself with grace. In this era a job = a job. Gone are the days where there were " cool " jobs. It's swim or sink these days. Gotta be proud of your occupation.

Women will ALWAYS want a provider. It's on you to set the trap properly and and to bait (and switch) .

Nice things attract women. Period. You could however always be vague about your job. Many responses will tell you that; ve vague, be mysterious about your job, avoid the topic ect.

Personally ,again, I'd be proud of my job even if I was a garage man.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Q: "So, BITG, what do you do for a living?"

Me: "Hitman by day, Stripper by night...no rest for the weary"

Said with a big smirk on my face and usually elicits hysterical laughing from them and how that's the best answer they have ever gotten...usually don't revisit that for a few more dates until I give them some hints.

 

[Gamisch]

Q: "So, BITG, what do you do for a living?"

Me: "Hitman by day, Stripper by night...no rest for the weary"

Said with a big smirk on my face and usually elicits hysterical laughing from them and how that's the best answer they have ever gotten...usually don't revisit that for a few more dates until I give them some hints.

Hey BITG how ya doing

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

I've had quite a few dates lately where there has been a common theme.

And that theme is that the girl is very intersted in what I do for work, where I live, my education.

Stupidly, I gave these girls the boring, true answer, which is probably what leads me into a trap: I tell them I work in IT, live right in the city center, etc.

Now the problem is that there are a lot of women out there who are looking to "settle down", who are looking for a real "nice guy" kind of boyfriend who has money, and will provide for her like a good boy beta male.

I've met several women over 30 who were obvious provider hunters, but lately even a girl just 26 years old seemed to be a provider hunter, and was looking for a "serious" relationship. When I sexualized things on the date, she seemed almost offended.

All of these girls are from daygame/nightgame, btw. I don't do OLD yet (until I get some proper photos).

Maybe my Instagram profile is also a problem, since it shows me traveling a lot, at nice places, which could make the girl think I have a lot of money.

Anyway, the problem with these girls is that they are always just a massive waste of time. She won't bang you on the first date, she will make you wait, she's gonna judge you for choosing a cheap date spot, she's gonna make special rules for you, etc.

In several instances, I've had a first date with these girls where we do end up at my place, and we kiss, but nothing more. And a few days after, both of these girls would unfollow me on Instagram. It is as though they thought i would be a nice guy provider kind of guy, but they realized I was trying to bang them on the 1st date and wouldn't be the beta bucks guy.

My philosophy in life is that everything is my fault, so what am I doing wrong to attract these types of women so much lately?

Maybe I am...

• Acting too nice and not giving enough player vibes in the initial interaction.
• Giving her serious answers about my life instead of playing around, making jokes about it
• Having an Instagram which shows too much money, and not enough player vibes.
• Just having bad luck by meeting women who are in the provider hunting phase. They've been pumped n' dumped and are now looking for a sucker to provide.

I've been in the game for years, but only this/last year has this become a recurring theme for me.

What will I experiment with to avoid this issue?

• If the topic of work comes up, I will playfully avoid the subject or tell them I work in photography, which would match more with the "player" category compared to IT. (Not a lie - I have done photography before)
• Be more playful, spike more emotions to seem like less of a nice guy
• have more fun, be less serious in my vibe

Ideally, I would like to avoid even ending up on a date with a provider hunter. If the girl shows up, it should be because she has that primal attraction, not the "this guy might be a good provider" attraction.

Does anyone else out there struggle with this? Has anyone else noticed more provider hunters out there? Any recommendations?

I Just banged a hot short vietnamese chick last night. She facetimed me to see if i was fake then once she knew i wasnt she invited me over to her brothers house. When i went to the door she grabbed my hand dragged me to her room and started grinding up on me then i banged her brains out. no talking other then meeting up. Get your fitness right and look good.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Does anyone else out there struggle with this?

Long ago, I found being quizzed by chicks on my "protector/provider" cred perturbing... Then not one, but SEVERAL wise men(and at least a couple of women)reminded me that I was pursuing heterosexual poonany, not d-ck or diesel d-kes

Ever since then, I've not been distressed by this, and recognize that it's just as natural as a shrink asking "What sort of activities do you engage in when your not here in session?", or a potential investor asking "What's the likely ROI on this venture?"

 

[pipeman84]

And that theme is that the girl is very intersted in what I do for work, where I live, my education.

I don't think that per se means she's looking for a provider. You should be honest with your answers. You'll discover through her life stories and actions if she's looking for a provider or not. The most obvious example would be stories of how she's had several relationships and she's learned and grown from them (yeah right!) and now she's looking for a real connection. Or if she suggests you go on dates that require lots of money.

but lately even a girl just 26 years old seemed to be a provider hunter, and was looking for a "serious" relationship. When I sexualized things on the date, she seemed almost offended.

In several instances, I've had a first date with these girls where we do end up at my place, and we kiss, but nothing more. And a few days after, both of these girls would unfollow me on Instagram. It is as though they thought i would be a nice guy provider kind of guy, but they realized I was trying to bang them on the 1st date and wouldn't be the beta bucks guy.

Sounds like you're looking for very low quality women that would have sex after 1-2 dates. Of course that most women are not like that and thus will feel offended by your vibe and actions (escalate too much too fast). Nothing to do with them perceiving you as beta bucks.

 

[Clockwerk50]

I haven’t personally experienced this mainly because I’m broke as hell but I’m not exactly triggering any provider alarms. But from what you’re describing, there are a couple of things worth thinking about.

If someone initially shows strong interest but then it fades, it could be due to factors in their life such as distractions, baggage, or other personal issues. Alternatively, it might be something you're doing that's breaking the initial illusion. When this pattern repeats, you're the common denominator, and that's a good time to self-audit and reflect on your role in the dynamic.

One thing that stands out to me is congruency. If you’re bold enough to initiate the interaction, lead the logistics, and get them back to your place, that shows strong social calibration and confidence. But if you’re also trying to sexualize the interaction and it’s falling flat or getting weird reactions, the issue might not be the escalation itself, but it might be how and when you’re doing it.

Congruency also plays a big role in perception. If your Instagram shows and gives off this high-value, luxury lifestyle, but in person there’s a mismatch, whether that’s your energy, apartment, or behavior, people notice; it creates dissonance. If she thinks she is meeting this high-status, smooth, cool guy and ends up on a date with a guy giving off nice IT guy energy and pushing for sex in a clunky way that doesn't match the rest of the package, it becomes odd and makes her feel like something is off. Not saying that’s what’s happening, but something to think about.

Again, a big disclaimer: this is a shot in the dark since we don’t know the unique nuances that make you who you are. And because 50% of the seduction process depends on you, we can really only speak to that part. The women you're choosing may have their own issues or needs, ones you simply can't and shouldn’t try to fulfill. Some things are just outside your control.

 

[BPH]

This might be a hot take, but I think you may need to choose younger women.

I was just having a conversation with @SW15 in DMs about how things have been going lately, what with the college bars being dead and everybody having gone home for the summer.

I've made posts complaining about women who were otherwise very interested in me suddenly going cold once they find out I'm much older than them at these college bars. Whether it's due to the age gap, the fact that I'm not part of their cliques/social circle, whatever. And now I'm starting to realize how good I had it.

Sure, I might lose out on some women based on the merit of being a 31-year-old at a bar full of 21-year-olds, but I think I'd rather have that problem. Despite my complaints, the women I did end up sleeping with from these bars were always very hot, very enthusiastic, and didn't have me jumping through too many hoops to close. Plus, everybody's broke in college - they don't need to be taken to a 5-star restaurant for a first date, they're happy with a couple of ****tails at a nice bar.

Now that I'm dealing with the local women my age, I'm having a much worse time. They're not as attractive. They have more requirements. They're more difficult to coordinate plans with. And they're less likely to close, at least not without significant time and money investment. There was an alumni weekend a few weeks ago at the college bars that these young, hot women used to frequent - they were replaced by absolutely busted-looking 30-40-year-olds. I was excited for this weekend, and instead, I left the bar soon after I got there.

I was out this past weekend and struck up a conversation with a cute 27-year-old who inserted herself into our group. She hadn't had sex since February, felt she was getting old and needed to get married soon, and didn't want to have sex unless there was an emotional connection and commitment attached to it. She admitted to me that she had been promiscuous during college and racked up a body count of 24, but now she wants to slow down and look for something serious.

THAT is what older women are generally like, from my experience. And this woman isn't even "old" - she's 27...

So, TL;DR my hot take is that maybe you should pursue younger women who haven't reached the stage of their life where they feel they need to be more selective and settle down.

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

This might be a hot take, but I think you may need to choose younger women.

I was just having a conversation with @SW15 in DMs about how things have been going lately, what with the college bars being dead and everybody having gone home for the summer.

I've made posts complaining about women who were otherwise very interested in me suddenly going cold once they find out I'm much older than them at these college bars. Whether it's due to the age gap, the fact that I'm not part of their cliques/social circle, whatever. And now I'm starting to realize how good I had it.

Sure, I might lose out on some women based on the merit of being a 31-year-old at a bar full of 21-year-olds, but I think I'd rather have that problem. Despite my complaints, the women I did end up sleeping with from these bars were always very hot, very enthusiastic, and didn't have me jumping through too many hoops to close. Plus, everybody's broke in college - they don't need to be taken to a 5-star restaurant for a first date, they're happy with a couple of ****tails at a nice bar.

Now that I'm dealing with the local women my age, I'm having a much worse time. They're not as attractive. They have more requirements. They're more difficult to coordinate plans with. And they're less likely to close, at least not without significant time and money investment. There was an alumni weekend a few weeks ago at the college bars that these young, hot women used to frequent - they were replaced by absolutely busted-looking 30-40-year-olds. I was excited for this weekend, and instead, I left the bar soon after I got there.

I was out this past weekend and struck up a conversation with a cute 27-year-old who inserted herself into our group. She hadn't had sex since February, felt she was getting old and needed to get married soon, and didn't want to have sex unless there was an emotional connection and commitment attached to it. She admitted to me that she had been promiscuous during college and racked up a body count of 24, but now she wants to slow down and look for something serious.

THAT is what older women are generally like, from my experience. And this woman isn't even "old" - she's 27...

So, TL;DR my hot take is that maybe you should pursue younger women who haven't reached the stage of their life where they feel they need to be more selective and settle down.

Is that you in pfp

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

This might be a hot take, but I think you may need to choose younger women.

I was just having a conversation with @SW15 in DMs about how things have been going lately, what with the college bars being dead and everybody having gone home for the summer.

I've made posts complaining about women who were otherwise very interested in me suddenly going cold once they find out I'm much older than them at these college bars. Whether it's due to the age gap, the fact that I'm not part of their cliques/social circle, whatever. And now I'm starting to realize how good I had it.

Sure, I might lose out on some women based on the merit of being a 31-year-old at a bar full of 21-year-olds, but I think I'd rather have that problem. Despite my complaints, the women I did end up sleeping with from these bars were always very hot, very enthusiastic, and didn't have me jumping through too many hoops to close. Plus, everybody's broke in college - they don't need to be taken to a 5-star restaurant for a first date, they're happy with a couple of ****tails at a nice bar.

Now that I'm dealing with the local women my age, I'm having a much worse time. They're not as attractive. They have more requirements. They're more difficult to coordinate plans with. And they're less likely to close, at least not without significant time and money investment. There was an alumni weekend a few weeks ago at the college bars that these young, hot women used to frequent - they were replaced by absolutely busted-looking 30-40-year-olds. I was excited for this weekend, and instead, I left the bar soon after I got there.

I was out this past weekend and struck up a conversation with a cute 27-year-old who inserted herself into our group. She hadn't had sex since February, felt she was getting old and needed to get married soon, and didn't want to have sex unless there was an emotional connection and commitment attached to it. She admitted to me that she had been promiscuous during college and racked up a body count of 24, but now she wants to slow down and look for something serious.

THAT is what older women are generally like, from my experience. And this woman isn't even "old" - she's 27...

So, TL;DR my hot take is that maybe you should pursue younger women who haven't reached the stage of their life where they feel they need to be more selective and settle down.

yeah ive found women 30+ on dating apps want something serious lmao. I just make them feel horny then they forget all about wanting something "real"

 

[SW15]

I've met several women over 30 who were obvious provider hunters

That's more common behavior for women in their 30s

Caleb Jones (Alpha Male 2.0, Blackdragon) wrote about Provider Hunters back in 2013.

Provider Hunters - Alpha Male 2.0

Per the glossary, the definition of “provider hunting” is: A phase a woman goes through, usually when she’s over the age of 27 (but can happen at all ages) where she seeks to settle down with a beta, now preferring the perceived stability and compliance...

alphamale20.com

I've had quite a few dates lately where there has been a common theme.

And that theme is that the girl is very intersted in what I do for work, where I live, my education.

Stupidly, I gave these girls the boring, true answer, which is probably what leads me into a trap: I tell them I work in IT, live right in the city center, etc.

Now the problem is that there are a lot of women out there who are looking to "settle down", who are looking for a real "nice guy" kind of boyfriend who has money, and will provide for her like a good boy beta male.

I've met several women over 30 who were obvious provider hunters, but lately even a girl just 26 years old seemed to be a provider hunter, and was looking for a "serious" relationship. When I sexualized things on the date, she seemed almost offended.

All of these girls are from daygame/nightgame, btw. I don't do OLD yet (until I get some proper photos).

Maybe my Instagram profile is also a problem, since it shows me traveling a lot, at nice places, which could make the girl think I have a lot of money.

Do not tell women about your boring corporate white collar job on early stage dates. Roosh mentioned this in his famous "Getting Laid While Unemployed" article in 2011. Boring, corporate jobs tend to dry up the pussie.

Getting Laid While Unemployed And Living In Your Dad’s Basement

Your Instagram might also be a problem.

Anyway, the problem with these girls is that they are always just a massive waste of time. She won't bang you on the first date, she will make you wait, she's gonna judge you for choosing a cheap date spot, she's gonna make special rules for you, etc.

In several instances, I've had a first date with these girls where we do end up at my place, and we kiss, but nothing more. And a few days after, both of these girls would unfollow me on Instagram. It is as though they thought i would be a nice guy provider kind of guy, but they realized I was trying to bang them on the 1st date and wouldn't be the beta bucks guy.

The problem here is your Early Frame Announcement (EFA). This is a term I first learned from Caleb Jones. It is about how you present yourself to women early in interaction which causes them to form perceptions of you. It is seeming like your EFA is that of a boyfriend/provider. That makes earlier stage sex far more difficult. It creates a certain set of expectations that do not result in fast sex.

my hot take is that maybe you should pursue younger women who haven't reached the stage of their life where they feel they need to be more selective and settle down.

I might lose out on some women based on the merit of being a 31-year-old at a bar full of 21-year-olds, but I think I'd rather have that problem. Despite my complaints, the women I did end up sleeping with from these bars were always very hot, very enthusiastic, and didn't have me jumping through too many hoops to close. Plus, everybody's broke in college - they don't need to be taken to a 5-star restaurant for a first date, they're happy with a couple of ****tails at a nice bar.

Now that I'm dealing with the local women my age, I'm having a much worse time. They're not as attractive. They have more requirements. They're more difficult to coordinate plans with. And they're less likely to close, at least not without significant time and money investment. There was an alumni weekend a few weeks ago at the college bars that these young, hot women used to frequent - they were replaced by absolutely busted-looking 30-40-year-olds. I was excited for this weekend, and instead, I left the bar soon after I got there.

I was out this past weekend and struck up a conversation with a cute 27-year-old who inserted herself into our group. She hadn't had sex since February, felt she was getting old and needed to get married soon, and didn't want to have sex unless there was an emotional connection and commitment attached to it. She admitted to me that she had been promiscuous during college and racked up a body count of 24, but now she wants to slow down and look for something serious.

THAT is what older women are generally like, from my experience. And this woman isn't even "old" - she's 27...

The best way to avoid provider hunters is to date early to mid 20s. @optinimus is 33, so he's at the outer limits of the age where dating 20-26 is most feasible. The women he is most likely to seduce are 27-32 and he might see more provider hunting type behaviors there. Additionally, as he ages, his most likely to seduce age range increases. Getting big age gaps is difficult. A typical "younger woman" age gap for a man is 6 months - just under 5 years.

He should not talk much about work and try to frame himself more sexually if he chooses to interact with late 20s/early 30s women now.

 

[BPH]

Is that you in pfp

Indeed, it is.

yeah ive found women 30+ on dating apps want something serious lmao. I just make them feel horny then they forget all about wanting something "real"

That works sometimes, but it's way harder to do from behind a screen. Women will talk all kinds of naughty, and then flake when it's time to meet in person and deliver on it.

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

Indeed, it is.



That works sometimes, but it's way harder to do from behind a screen. Women will talk all kinds of naughty, and then flake when it's time to meet in person and deliver on it.

haha damn you a chad. Thats true. Ive gotten a lot of lays though talking dirty as **** to girls online.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Indeed, it is.



That works sometimes, but it's way harder to do from behind a screen. Women will talk all kinds of naughty, and then flake when it's time to meet in person and deliver on it.

Gotta build comfort when they talk all kinds of naughty to balance it out.

(Not at the same time of course, but alternating comfort and sextalk and ideally starting leading with comfort. That being said, you can throw in a tame asexual line as a joke, i.e. randomly asking her how she thinks the Yankees are going to do this year while you're talking about pounding her doggy on her mother's bed)

 

[Thebestthereeveris]

Gotta build comfort when they talk all kinds of naughty to balance it out.

(Not at the same time of course, but alternating comfort and sextalk and ideally starting leading with comfort. That being said, you can throw in a tame asexual line as a joke, i.e. randomly asking her how she thinks the Yankees are going to do this year while you're talking about pounding her doggy on her mother's bed)

i am incredibly sexual but also goofy as hell which girls seem to like cause there all weirdos inside. Goofy **** boy is the way to go. Ive noticed this before game that the tall goofy non judgemental dude who was kind of a loser got laid all the time.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

i am incredibly sexual but also goofy as hell which girls seem to like cause there all weirdos inside. Goofy **** boy is the way to go. Ive noticed this before game that the tall goofy non judgemental dude who was kind of a loser got laid all the time.

If you can make them laugh while making them horny it's a good combo

 

[BPH]

Gotta build comfort when they talk all kinds of naughty to balance it out.

(Not at the same time of course, but alternating comfort and sextalk and ideally starting leading with comfort. That being said, you can throw in a tame asexual line as a joke, i.e. randomly asking her how she thinks the Yankees are going to do this year while you're talking about pounding her doggy on her mother's bed)

I'd heard a quote somewhere that goes "No woman will flirt harder than one with no intention of meeting you", and I think there's a lot of truth to it.

The women who most readily sent me nudes, videos, talked dirty, etc, were ones who were too far away to ever realistically meet, or ones who would flake at the last minute.

The ONLY ones who talked like this and followed through on it were women who I was already actively f***ing.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

Don't worry so much about the so-called "provider hunter". A girl worth having is going to have some criteria in a dude, especially if she is LTR or wife material. And she should. If a woman is pretty enough to be attractive to a variety of men, she will choose her best option.

Not rocket science. ALL worthwhile women WILL do this. Why? Because smart women are not going to risk all the medical risks of childbearing and child rearing (which you can expect to take her out of the workforce for a while) with a loser who does not have his act together.

You are focused on the wrong thing here OP. Focus on her interest level and on her desire level. Those things should come first, but you having your act together as a man (who can properly support a family) is going to be close behind desire....and it should be.

If she is saying yes when you ask her out and things are progressing, don't blow yourself out by being overly in a hurry for sex. Nothing will blow you out faster than making a girl feel like all you are after is sex.

And that is my best guess as to what is happening here.

Slow down and be more patient. And feel free to be upfront about what you do, just mention it and move on. Being evasive about your job comes off as childish and idiotic. Not attractive.

If you don't understand why women are hard wired as provder hunters, well you don't understand women very well. And you'll have disdain in your vibe. Disdain is unattractive.

My guess is you also may lack in the looks department (you want a woman to have desire for you first - as a higher priority than what you do and what you have)......but those criteria are never going away entirely.

I cannot tell you the number of hot guys I've had interested in me.....that I blew off because they had drug habits, or a drinking problem, or did not have their act together financially. I'm a woman who is educated and has my life in order. I'm not taking on a project, no matter how handsome & sexy he is....

Especially when I could choose a handsome sexy man who DOES have his act together financially. I have thought that way all my adult life because I was raised that way and raised to value family and I wanted to marry a lover for whom I had sexual desire....and who could afford me being a mother to young children in that phase of life.

My son married a girl whose virginity he took. He wanted a full time wife/mother (the trad wife) and that is exactly what he got. He provides, and he is honored to do so, and he is THE love of her life. He is a very handsome young man, very fit, commissioned military officer, devout Catholic. And they just had a daughter, and my daughter-in-law is recovering from childbirth after a really difficult pregnancy.

So you bet sensible family oriented women want a man capable of providing.....that is a GOOD thing gentlemen.

You just need to be sure she has real sexual desire for you, and that may require more patience than you like at first.