Coffee dates

[BackInTheGame78]

I am not sure thats an indicator for anything.

Unless one is desperate for the first night lay, coffee dates are the very uncomplicated, cost- and time effective way to sniff a woman out for an hour. Weed the bad, the ugly and the batshyt crazy out and go for the second date.

If you dont impress a woman enough to go on a second date, the problem is not the coffee, its you.

It might be a cultural thing. At my place, coffee dates are fine and will set you up for the second night lay.

Most people that fvck drink coffee.

So are invites to go have a drink, go walk and talk or go play mini golf or any other number of random things that aren't boring as fvck.

 

[Gamisch]

I’ll even take a step further, a woman who likes you will pull her credit card out to help pay for the check, regardless

Yes. But...that's like saying: "if a woman likes you she'll Duck your Sick." Duh.

Most men simply don't have or ever had that amount of volume. By volume I mean number of dates/ overall experience. Let's say the average man has...between 2 and 6 dates per year. He will MOST DEFINITELY try to give it his best. He will try to show the woman a glimpse of what life with him is like., and avoid mental gymnastics that MIGHT actually benefit him( such as red pill rules/ rethoric/ principles ect)

If you are financially well off, you don't mind paying xyz for a date with a beautiful bubbly woman. It will actually be the highlight of his spring/ summer /winter/ fall, even if he doesn't hit it.

Let's say the date ends. She does NOT pull her card( aka she wasn't feeling the dude 100%?) . He STILL gotta pay. And he will. Take the average man and tell him he has the slightest chance of fecking an hb8+ but the culprits is he might have to pay and get none...most men will HAPPILY take the gamble. Because if we're being honest even a simple night out is a gamble. You might spend 100 on drinks and go home empty-handed ( most of the time this will be the case by the way)

 

[Solomon]

Yes. But...that's like saying: "if a woman likes you she'll Duck your Sick." Duh.

Most men simply don't have or ever had that amount of volume. By volume I mean number of dates/ overall experience. Let's say the average man has...between 2 and 6 dates per year. He will MOST DEFINITELY try to give it his best. He will try to show the woman a glimpse of what life with him is like., and avoid mental gymnastics that MIGHT actually benefit him( such as red pill rules/ rethoric/ principles ect)

If you are financially well off, you don't mind paying xyz for a date with a beautiful bubbly woman. It will actually be the highlight of his spring/ summer /winter/ fall, even if he doesn't hit it.

Let's say the date ends. She does NOT pull her card( aka she wasn't feeling the dude 100%?) . He STILL gotta pay. And he will. Take the average man and tell him he has the slightest chance of fecking an hb8+ but the culprits is he might have to pay and get none...most men will HAPPILY take the gamble. Because if we're being honest even a simple night out is a gamble. You might spend 100 on drinks and go home empty-handed ( most of the time this will be the case by the way)

This is spot on, this is why a first date should be casual/cheap because per stats on average 10%-23% first dates lead to 2nd dates, but first dates are also pricey. an Hb8 may be down to do a walk date but don't be shocked if she doesn't call the average guy again hence he feels he needs to do more taking her to a mid-tier/or fancy restaurant

 

[ThisIsSparta]

things that aren't boring as fvck.

Well, again..... if sitting down and talking to someone is boring as fvck, the problem in my opinion is not the kind of beverage or the location.

While it is the case that some activities vibe with a certain type of women, walking with a "stranger" or being locked down in a mini golf game is not every womans taste.

Also, i am not going to commit to drink alcohol and potentially restrict me from driving, sports, work, or whatever for meeting a woman i might or more likely MIGHT NOT have interest AND her green light to go for the first night lay. Thats to much invest for uncertain (optics, chemistry, vibes) encounters, which are the majority.

Of course, i have to admit that most of my meetups were arranged through online dating and thats a different dynamic then daygame, bargame or whatever.

That said, if things go well during a coffee date, one can allways carry the date to other places and escalate from there.

You do you man...... i had many of good and successfull coffee-dates that led to fvcks on first, second or third dates.

 

[BaronOfHair]

What kind of an idiot is spending $150 a date?

A schmuck who's destined to wake up in a bathtub filled with ice, minus his kidneys, and deprived of several grand, on top of that $150

 

[SW15]

This is spot on, this is why a first date should be casual/cheap because per stats on average 10%-23% first dates lead to 2nd dates, but first dates are also pricey.

That's a lousy percentage of first dates leading to second dates.

I also think most first dates are sexless. Most men think that a first date with sex and no second date is a better outcome than the infamous "one date, no sex, no second date" outcome.

I like the spirit of the Tom Leykis $40 rule that was generated during the late 1990s. That rule was that dates should cost no more than $40.

According to the CPI inflation calculator, $40 in April 1998 is equivalent in purchasing power to $78.96 in April 2025. I have said in the last couple of years that the Leykis $40 rule needed to be adjusted to $70-$75 today.

CPI Inflation Calculator : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

www.bls.gov

The goal is to have an inexpensive first date but one with a sexually charged atmosphere. Coffee fulfills inexpensive but lacks the sexual vibe.

 

[Solomon]

That's a lousy percentage of first dates leading to second dates.

I also think most first dates are sexless. Most men think that a first date with sex and no second date is a better outcome than the infamous "one date, no sex, no second date" outcome.

I like the spirit of the Tom Leykis $40 rule that was generated during the late 1990s. That rule was that dates should cost no more than $40.

According to the CPI inflation calculator, $40 in April 1998 is equivalent in purchasing power to $78.96 in April 2025. I have said in the last couple of years that the Leykis $40 rule needed to be adjusted to $70-$75 today.

CPI Inflation Calculator : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

www.bls.gov

The goal is to have an inexpensive first date but one with a sexually charged atmosphere. Coffee fulfills inexpensive but lacks the sexual vibe.

I think if you want sex on the first date, inviting a girl to your house increases the odds back in Tinder's early days it was not hard to get a girl to do so. I know even in 2025 this isn't an issue for attractive guys/Game savvy guys however most men will not be able to pull it off with a study I know in 2014 that only 36% of people had sex on a first date. With Gen-Z having less sex I would not be shocked if the number is lower.

Most men though while not oppose to sex would most likely prefer to have a girlfriend or FWB so they can get a steady supply of *****. Most men are not looking to Pump and dump as they not have the ability to do so i.e. lack of options, not willing to put the effort in etc.

The adjustment to $70-$75 sounds right my last date I spent $82 on just drinks. The girl was a self-admitted alcholic towards the end of our date and she had 2 shots of patron and drank like a fish. The girl was a drinker, tall skinny, white women (6'1) with a nice small tight ass, but a butterface. that you could put a piece of bread on. I did not smash nor was it a loss to me not to

 

[Gamisch]

Well, again..... if sitting down and talking to someone is boring as fvck, the problem in my opinion is not the kind of beverage or the location.

While it is the case that some activities vibe with a certain type of women, walking with a "stranger" or being locked down in a mini golf game is not every womans taste.

Also, i am not going to commit to drink alcohol and potentially restrict me from driving, sports, work, or whatever for meeting a woman i might or more likely MIGHT NOT have interest AND her green light to go for the first night lay. Thats to much invest for uncertain (optics, chemistry, vibes) encounters, which are the majority.

Of course, i have to admit that most of my meetups were arranged through online dating and thats a different dynamic then daygame, bargame or whatever.

That said, if things go well during a coffee date, one can allways carry the date to other places and escalate from there.

You do you man...... i had many of good and successfull coffee-dates that led to fvcks on first, second or third dates.

@BackInTheGame78 is probably right, but that doesn't take away from the actual elephant in the room: that we as men have to jump through hoops . I made a thread ( and will revive it today) asking what is your role: I gave the option of puppet and BITG stated he was " none of them". But he is basically the puppet ,the entertainer who can't be himself around a woman and thus has to make sure she can play and be entertained. And yes, that might be a better strategy than a simple low effort date . I will admit that too.

You can get mad at me as these words are antagonizing, I get that.

If you are 10000% assured of who you are, you would say that ANY kinda date you offer a woman is a "great" experience: because YOU ARE a great experience by default. A lotta women are living in their own space where they have zero understanding of the nitty gritty of being a man.

I'd say let's start with a low effort date that allows the both of us to dip our toes in the water and see if it's even worthy of continuing. A woman might say I need you to show ME you are willing to go the extra mile and impress me. Basically that's a mismatch by default.

 

[SW15]

I think if you want sex on the first date, inviting a girl to your house increases the odds

Getting to sex fast is a good outcome.

It is more difficult to pull that off, either from a stranger approach, social media DM, or a swipe app.

Let's say I'm approaching a woman in a grocery store. I would have to be super appealing to get her to agree to come back to my place in an evening in the next 72-96 hours for a cooked meal and possibly Netflix & Chill. I'm extending that invitation after a 3-10 minute conversation.

Going back and forth with DMs on Instagram to pull this off is even more challenging. A man has to solely display value on pictures and videos. A shredded physique and good Follower count helps with this.

back in Tinder's early days it was not hard to get a girl to do so. I know even in 2025 this isn't an issue for attractive guys/Game savvy guys however most men will not be able to pull it off with a study I know in 2014 that only 36% of people had sex on a first date. With Gen-Z having less sex I would not be shocked if the number is lower.

If a man wants to pull off the immediate home invitation on a swipe app, having a great physique the best way to pull this off.

Most men though while not oppose to sex would most likely prefer to have a girlfriend or FWB so they can get a steady supply of *****. Most men are not looking to Pump and dump as they not have the ability to do so i.e. lack of options, not willing to put the effort in etc.

I agree that more men are motivated by finding a girlfriend or even a shorter term FWB than a pump and dump.

The adjustment to $70-$75 sounds right my last date I spent $82 on just drinks. The girl was a self-admitted alcholic towards the end of our date and she had 2 shots of patron and drank like a fish. The girl was a drinker, tall skinny, white women (6'1) with a nice small tight ass, but a butterface. that you could put a piece of bread on. I did not smash nor was it a loss to me not to

She could have been a decent option for shorter term sex (either one night or less than a couple of months). It probably would have gotten frustrating to deal with her alcoholic behavior over any period of time beyond one night.

The point of view that it wasn't a loss not to smash that is understandable. The juice likely wasn't worth the squeeze.

Tall women are very sexually exciting. A tall, slender 6'1" woman is going to have some appeal in the market. She is going to turn down a lot of men on height alone. Any sub 6'1" man runs a big risk of rejection. As a 5'10" confident man, I would have some interest in approaching a 6'1" woman if she were attractive (butterface isn't that attractive to me). In most situations when I think about approaching a 6'0"+ woman, I think about my odds with a 6'0"+ woman and then end up choosing someone 5'9" or under. While I think it is fun to approach the 6'0"+ women, I don't usually want a challenge or a higher probability scenario of rejection. I'd rather take my chances on a woman who is shorter than I am.

 

[Gamisch]

I think if you want sex on the first date, inviting a girl to your house increases the odds back in Tinder's early days it was not hard to get a girl to do so. I know even in 2025 this isn't an issue for attractive guys/Game savvy guys however most men will not be able to pull it off with a study I know in 2014 that only 36% of people had sex on a first date. With Gen-Z having less sex I would not be shocked if the number is lower.

Most men though while not oppose to sex would most likely prefer to have a girlfriend or FWB so they can get a steady supply of *****. Most men are not looking to Pump and dump as they not have the ability to do so i.e. lack of options, not willing to put the effort in etc.

The adjustment to $70-$75 sounds right my last date I spent $82 on just drinks. The girl was a self-admitted alcholic towards the end of our date and she had 2 shots of patron and drank like a fish. The girl was a drinker, tall skinny, white women (6'1) with a nice small tight ass, but a butterface. that you could put a piece of bread on. I did not smash nor was it a loss to me not to

Thank you.

82 dollar is a REAL WORLD amount of money you'll spend on a date in 2025 and beyond.

In this case for " just the experience of being around her". She got to get hammered and does the same thing tomorrow.

Real talk

 

[SW15]

82 dollar is a REAL WORLD amount of money you'll spend on a date in 2025 and beyond.

In this case for " just the experience of being around her". She got to get hammered and does the same thing tomorrow.

Real talk

$82 is realistic though not good.

Dating is expensive for men because a man is covering his own drinks + her drinks. Early stage dating for 2 people is pricy.

Let's say that a man and a woman each have 2 drinks on a date. That's not an excessive amount of alcohol. It might not even get her inhabitations down enough to accept an invitation to come home that night.

4 drinks in a decent bar in a larger USA city is probably going to run $40-$55 at a minimum. This depends on the venue.

The 6'1" woman in @Solomon 's example got to drink for free just by talking to some man for 1-2.5 hours. It's a good deal for her.

 

[Solomon]

Tall women are very sexually exciting. A tall, slender 6'1" woman is going to have some appeal in the market. She is going to turn down a lot of men on height alone. Any sub 6'1" man runs a big risk of rejection. As a 5'10" confident man, I would have some interest in approaching a 6'1" woman if she were attractive (butterface isn't that attractive to me). In most situations when I think about approaching a 6'0"+ woman, I think about my odds with a 6'0"+ woman and then end up choosing someone 5'9" or under. While I think it is fun to approach the 6'0"+ women, I don't usually want a challenge or a higher probability scenario of rejection. I'd rather take my chances on a woman who is shorter than I am.

I've hooked up/dated some taller women before they are fun, but as you confirmed, she admitted "I hate short men" once again she is 6'1 I'm 6 foot so it wasn't a huge issue but her drinking like a fish and showing up in a hoody and sweatpants was a NO for me. No worries I got better options lined up already to meet (No jinx)

Thank you.

82 dollar is a REAL WORLD amount of money you'll spend on a date in 2025 and beyond.

In this case for " just the experience of being around her". She got to get hammered and does the same thing tomorrow.

Real talk

It was an interesting date to say the least but there was far more drinking than usual(for a first date)

 

[Solomon]

$82 is realistic though not good.

Dating is expensive for men because a man is covering his own drinks + her drinks. Early stage dating for 2 people is pricy.

Let's say that a man and a woman each have 2 drinks on a date. That's not an excessive amount of alcohol. It might not even get her inhabitations down enough to accept an invitation to come home that night.

4 drinks in a decent bar in a larger USA city is probably going to run $40-$55 at a minimum. This depends on the venue.

The 6'1" woman in @Solomon 's example got to drink for free just by talking to some man for 1-2.5 hours. It's a good deal for her.

NO lies told, but in my defense, I got an interesting story now

 

[SW15]

I've hooked up/dated some taller women before they are fun, but as you confirmed, she admitted "I hate short men" once again she is 6'1 I'm 6 foot so it wasn't a huge issue but her drinking like a fish and showing up in a hoody and sweatpants was a NO for me. No worries I got better options lined up already to meet (No jinx)

Excessive alcohol consumption and showing up in attire like she didn't care is a bad combination.

I have no idea why a woman would think a hoodie and sweatpants is acceptable date attire.

Most Dallas women will wear jeans at a minimum to a date. Swipe app arranged dates tend to be the minimum on attire. Real life arranged dates are more likely to get more attire/presentation effort from a woman.

In your case, I am wondering if her menstrual cycle and/or birth control affected her attire choice. Her attire choice sounds like a woman on birth control (not ovulating) who is also an alcoholic. She seems like a classier, employed alcoholic.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

@BackInTheGame78 is probably right, but that doesn't take away from the actual elephant in the room: that we as men have to jump through hoops . I made a thread ( and will revive it today) asking what is your role: I gave the option of puppet and BITG stated he was " none of them". But he is basically the puppet ,the entertainer who can't be himself around a woman and thus has to make sure she can play and be entertained. And yes, that might be a better strategy than a simple low effort date . I will admit that too.

You can get mad at me as these words are antagonizing, I get that.

If you are 10000% assured of who you are, you would say that ANY kinda date you offer a woman is a "great" experience: because YOU ARE a great experience by default. A lotta women are living in their own space where they have zero understanding of the nitty gritty of being a man.

I'd say let's start with a low effort date that allows the both of us to dip our toes in the water and see if it's even worthy of continuing. A woman might say I need you to show ME you are willing to go the extra mile and impress me. Basically that's a mismatch by default.

See this is where silliness starts coming into play.

If the definition of "not being yourself" is that you must at all times do what you want to do then nobody is ever truly themselves because in some aspect of their life this is not true.

Some people would have no issues going around and robbing and/or killing someone to take what they have but don't. Why? Becuse they don't want to go to jail.

Some people would have no issues with committing tax fraud or some other type of financial crimes but don't. Why? Same reason.

Most people would prefer not to have to wake up every morning and go to work but they do it anyway. Why? Because they need to earn a living so they can pay for things they want and need.

So if your definition is this strict, then nobody is ever really their authentic self. It's just a copout used by people who have this illusion of who they would be if nobody else was around to regulate their behavior in some way.

Now in terms of women, nobody is really their authentic self there either. Because most men would be AFC's if left to their own devices. Becoming good with women is a learned behavior for most men. The entire existence of this site shows that.

The end goal is to get results. Clearly most men don't get results by "being themselves". They need to be reprogrammed to be themselves in a different way. That's called evolving and learning and maturing.

 

[ThisIsSparta]

@BackInTheGame78 is probably right, but that doesn't take away from the actual elephant in the room: that we as men have to jump through hoops . I made a thread ( and will revive it today) asking what is your role: I gave the option of puppet and BITG stated he was " none of them". But he is basically the puppet ,the entertainer who can't be himself around a woman and thus has to make sure she can play and be entertained. And yes, that might be a better strategy than a simple low effort date . I will admit that too.

You can get mad at me as these words are antagonizing, I get that.

If you are 10000% assured of who you are, you would say that ANY kinda date you offer a woman is a "great" experience: because YOU ARE a great experience by default. A lotta women are living in their own space where they have zero understanding of the nitty gritty of being a man.

I'd say let's start with a low effort date that allows the both of us to dip our toes in the water and see if it's even worthy of continuing. A woman might say I need you to show ME you are willing to go the extra mile and impress me. Basically that's a mismatch by default.

All i am saying is there are many ways to skin a cat and shyting on a coffee date like everyone doing it (for decades with results) is a moron, is moronic.

Of course, everything is relative, depending on the man, the woman, the location, the circumstances of the meeting etc.etc. and MOST IMPORTANTLY the level of outcome dependence.

Do i NEED to fvck her on first date?
Do i want a ONS, FWB, LTR?
Do i care if she is crazy or a hoe?
Do i jump through hoops and how many?
Do i live in a highly populated, pricy city or in Bachmut?
Do i know who is the price? Me or her?
Do i want to pay to play?

All of these factors can vary depending on the woman in question and there is no such thing as THE ONE key to EVERY pvssy.


Personally i am finished with playing the entertainer for women.
I know my value and i rate myself in the top 3% of men in my country, therefore i am the prize for a certain category of women.
I am not chasing after 9´s or 10´s when i can get chased by 6´s and 7´s . I am not dependent on fvcking a 9 or 10 when the 6 or 7 gets me horny and does all the good stuff for me.
(And yes, i know most here are giga Chads and Tyrones, fvcking 9s and 10s only because anything less is scraping the bottom of the barrel, right?)

I stopped chasing women and switched to choosing women amongst the ones that choose me.

Can someone slay more pvssy with a different attitude and more investment? Sure! Could i? Sure!

The question is how much time, energy, money is one willing to invest in the procurement of pvssy and at which point is it more effective to just visit the next brothel and spend 120 € on company for an hour instead of jumping through hoops withoug end when the wished result is a ONS anyway and i have to pay for the pvssy too? (Again, things are different depending on the place one lives)

The next thing i dont care about is "the challenge" of the hunt. I have so much things going on in my life that are far more important and worthy to spend my time on then some pvssy i might or might not get to fvck on first date and might or might not see again.


To conclude, i couldnt care less if some pvssy gets her entertainment (and dinner) out of a date or not, i am the prize for my target group.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Well, again..... if sitting down and talking to someone is boring as fvck, the problem in my opinion is not the kind of beverage or the location.

While it is the case that some activities vibe with a certain type of women, walking with a "stranger" or being locked down in a mini golf game is not every womans taste.

Also, i am not going to commit to drink alcohol and potentially restrict me from driving, sports, work, or whatever for meeting a woman i might or more likely MIGHT NOT have interest AND her green light to go for the first night lay. Thats to much invest for uncertain (optics, chemistry, vibes) encounters, which are the majority.

Of course, i have to admit that most of my meetups were arranged through online dating and thats a different dynamic then daygame, bargame or whatever.

That said, if things go well during a coffee date, one can allways carry the date to other places and escalate from there.

You do you man...... i had many of good and successfull coffee-dates that led to fvcks on first, second or third dates.

It's always about probabilities. The probability for a coffee date versus a different type of date is just too low to justify.

I had a period of time where I wouldn't drink alcohol for several years due to training. Still took women to bars and ordered water. They actually loved seeing me stick to my guns and be focused on goals I had.

 

[Travel memoir21]

I personally think Coffee dates makes good practice even if you go out on dates with women you're not particularly attracted to Physically but feel an emotional spark because of their outgoing and cool personality. Beats being by yourself on a Saturday night and plus you get some sort of experience and practice with your social skills in regards to women. Who knows, You might make a cool long term friend who'll introduce you to some cool people in the future.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I personally think Coffee dates makes good practice even if you go out on dates with women you're not particularly attracted to Physically but feel an emotional spark because of their outgoing and cool personality. Beats being by yourself on a Saturday night and plus you get some sort of experience and practice with your social skills in regards to women. Who knows, You might make a cool long term friend who'll introduce you to some cool people in the future.

You practice to win, not to just play the game.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Anyone who wants to meet for coffee is going to probably prefer a walk in the park, maybe with a cup of coffee. Sitting in a cafe and staring at each other is not how you build rapport. Moving around, causing the flow of endorphins, and creating visual, non verbal and occasional physical contact, is how you build rapport.

so, to lay it all out;

have an in person, phone or visual call
Then go get the coffee together and flirt in line, including leaving room for kino
Then go walk around, leave door open for kino
Then have sex
= profit

total spend $11