LTR, Marriage & Divorce

[Calihopeful]

The "Did your wife change after kids" post got me thinking a bit.

For those who are divorced, at what point did you realize the marriage was over? What sort of arguments did you get into and how did you handle it? How hard did you work to save it, if at all? What did you try to do to change and save it? Why didn't it work? What do you believe you did wrong? (I'm assuming it's the man's fault here, as I believe it is probably the case >90% of the time). Are you happier now, what's different? Are you dealing with similar issues with other women, or was it just your ex wife?

For those who are still married or in LTRs, how long have you been together? What sort of arguments do you get into and how do you handle it? Are you happy? If so, why do you think this relationship is so successful? If not, why do you stay with them? What are you doing to try and make it better?

 

[Morpheus]

What do you believe you did wrong? (I'm assuming it's the man's fault here, as I believe it is probably the case >90% of the time).

I don't know where you got the idea from that men are overwhelmingly responsible for divorces; perhaps a woman? Did you see who was copping the majority of the abuse in that thread?

Remarks like this suggest that you have absolutely no idea. Divorce (like marriage in general) is a VERY nasty institution in feminist (western) societies. Women are pretty much paid (certainly incentivised) to divorce their husbands. So, guess who overwhelmingly initiates divorces? Anglo-American societies are run by lawyers and divorces help feed the lawyers (which is what the law is for).

You probably need to acquaint yourself with just how corrupt these institutions are.

I can't post links, but I would suggest going to Youtube and looking up:

. Red Man Group - ep. # 30 Divorce

. Red Man Group - ep. # 41 DDJ on The Feminist Lie

. Richard Cooper (one of the Red Man Group) also has an interview with DDJ on his channel (Entrepreneurs in Cars). Rich is divorced with a daughter.

. I think Stefan Molyeux has an interview with the guy who made Divorce Corp.

. Divorce Corp. (documentary about this industry in the US especially - probably won't be on youtube but elsewhere)

They also have a new group called The Patriachs which attempts to deal with the niche of marriage which might interest you.
There is also much excellent advice on this forum but it sounds like you need to get your bearings first.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

The "Did your wife change after kids" post got me thinking a bit.

For those who are divorced, at what point did you realize the marriage was over? What sort of arguments did you get into and how did you handle it? How hard did you work to save it, if at all? What did you try to do to change and save it? Why didn't it work? What do you believe you did wrong? (I'm assuming it's the man's fault here, as I believe it is probably the case >90% of the time). Are you happier now, what's different? Are you dealing with similar issues with other women, or was it just your ex wife?

For those who are still married or in LTRs, how long have you been together? What sort of arguments do you get into and how do you handle it? Are you happy? If so, why do you think this relationship is so successful? If not, why do you stay with them? What are you doing to try and make it better?

Why would you assume it’s the man’s fault >90% of the time?

-Augustus-

 

[highSpeed]

@Calihopeful, I just realized that in my earlier post today, I accidentally confused you with another SS poster. I actually know nothing of your marriage or perspective @Calihopeful.

It was actually @highSpeed's and his posts, on his marriage, that inspired what I shared above. I also know that @highSpeed is far from alone, in his experience, of marriage and potential divorce. It is a rough one.

I apologize for my error and any confusion.

I'm working on my mindset to change that. I'm already changing how I respond to things. The gaslighting me to get me to respond, that's over. I refuse to get sucked into arguments anymore, that's done. I get literally nowhere with that. Other stuff, money, kids, that'll be next.

 

[Spaz]

I'm working on my mindset to change that. I'm already changing how I respond to things. The gaslighting me to get me to respond, that's over. I refuse to get sucked into arguments anymore, that's done. I get literally nowhere with that. Other stuff, money, kids, that'll be next.

Different mindset influences a different approach which produces a different result.

How you think + how you do things = results.

When the results is something not desired then check how you do things, when results is still the same then it's time to reexamine how you think.

Remember that. Always.

 

[highSpeed]

Different mindset influences a different approach which produces a different result.

How you think + how you do things = results.

When the results is something not desired then check how you do things, when results is still the same then it's time to reexamine how you think.

Remember that. Always.

It's funny you mention the reflection part. I'm like replaying interactions in my mind now after the fact to see how I'd like them to go in the future. I'm visualizing things, seeing what I'd like to do and then doing it. If it works, check, time to put that into the routine. If it doesn't, throw it out and try something else. I'm done p*ssing and moaning about things not being what I want them to be, I'm in this for results.

 

[Spaz]

It's funny you mention the reflection part. I'm like replaying interactions in my mind now after the fact to see how I'd like them to go in the future. I'm visualizing things, seeing what I'd like to do and then doing it. If it works, check, time to put that into the routine. If it doesn't, throw it out and try something else. I'm done p*ssing and moaning about things not being what I want them to be, I'm in this for results.

Apply this thought process in everything you do and not limit it to just women.

You will be greater then before.

Guaranteed 100%.

 

[Glassguy]

The "Did your wife change after kids" post got me thinking a bit.

For those who are divorced, at what point did you realize the marriage was over? What sort of arguments did you get into and how did you handle it? How hard did you work to save it, if at all? What did you try to do to change and save it? Why didn't it work? What do you believe you did wrong? (I'm assuming it's the man's fault here, as I believe it is probably the case >90% of the time). Are you happier now, what's different? Are you dealing with similar issues with other women, or was it just your ex wife?

For those who are still married or in LTRs, how long have you been together? What sort of arguments do you get into and how do you handle it? Are you happy? If so, why do you think this relationship is so successful? If not, why do you stay with them? What are you doing to try and make it better?

1.) I realized it was over the instant she mentioned getting a divorce. At that point I knew that she had lost respect, had extreme interest in someone else, etc. and I knew from my perspective, I would never respect her or our marriage again.
2.) Woman will argue over anything and everything. It is not what you argue about rather the fact that she is starting the arguments. Women who respect you and are submissive to you will stay in their feminine frame and not do this. When her attraction/interest in you plummets, she will start the fights because shes is acting more masculine and not feminine.
3.) We tried counseling. I will say this- women will play the victim during counseling even though their actions are 100% why you are there in the first place. IMO counseling is a total joke. You will be the main target of "what needs to change". No thanks. If you are at the point of her recommending counseling I would instead recommend some silence and distance first. Or be like me and just go file for the divorce. I do in fact take a biblical marriage seriously which is why I agree to try the counseling.
4.) At some point in the marriage I stopped being the person that I was when we started dating. Not that I went through any big changes, but I dropped several things that I loved doing before the marriage because she complained about them (loss of frame). From there they just pick you apart like a buzzard on a dead carcass. Never lose frame.

I have been totally happier after my divorce.

You must realize that once the D word comes up your marriage has been compromised. I say this because I believe 150% a woman will not bring something like this up before she has someone in waiting, knowing she can monkey branch. It is always much easier to start with a new canvas once the old one is severely damaged.

Once you lose frame it is nearly impossible to get it back regardless of how long you have been with the woman.

 

[Boris Rum]

In my case, it was over when she filed a false restraining order. Though I disagreed with the allegations, I agreed to the judge putting a two year restraining order on me. I realized I could use this later to my advantage. I then retreated, ghosted her once she had moved out of the family home. Temporal shared custody for the kids, communication through a third party arrangement. Three months later, due to no contact from me, she asked the judge to cancel the order and started hustling me that she wants to come back. I gathered all the texts, voicemails and emails she was sending me and got a 3 year restraining order on her. Lol, mine she had it cancelled and for her, 1 year more to go. Of course, I also filed first for divorce, got custody of the kids since she opted to move from the family home. Remember with women, their decisions are based on emotions and how they feel at that moment, which most of the time turns out disastrous. Use this weakness as a man, to define and plan your next steps. Don't fight, argue or engage in their ****ed up reasoning or drama. Remember that women run when no one is chasing them and opt to stop when they are actually being chased.

 

[Ranger]

The "Did your wife change after kids" post got me thinking a bit.

For those who are divorced, at what point did you realize the marriage was over? What sort of arguments did you get into and how did you handle it? How hard did you work to save it, if at all? What did you try to do to change and save it? Why didn't it work? What do you believe you did wrong? (I'm assuming it's the man's fault here, as I believe it is probably the case >90% of the time). Are you happier now, what's different? Are you dealing with similar issues with other women, or was it just your ex wife?

For those who are still married or in LTRs, how long have you been together? What sort of arguments do you get into and how do you handle it? Are you happy? If so, why do you think this relationship is so successful? If not, why do you stay with them? What are you doing to try and make it better?

To be rather forward, you are asking the wrong questions. Too many assumptions.

1. Who told you it’s the man’s responsibility to make a woman happy and want to stay? The act of trying to make her happy or happier to be with you is a failed proposition.

Who here thinks that a man has to do something to express his devotion or love or that he should do more? This type of thinking is a coffin nail.
The exact opposite is the truth. Do less to “make her happy”. That doesn’t mean do sh!tty things to make her unhappy.

A woman is happiest when she has to work to keep her nest together and functioning. If a woman can’t drop into that frame...she’s worthless. If she hasn’t developed any skills other than shopping she is the worst kind of woman imaginable. Absolute garbage.

So OP to answer your question. She works to hold it together. It’s her nest. Never build that nest for her. You take away all of her challenges related to living with a man. Her whining is just background noise.
A marriage is fundamentally sex and children. When a woman says it’s time for you to work on your relationship? You’re dead fukking meat.

Not showing intimacy, care, and understanding of her world is also just as wrong. You are the one she is following. Stop doing that and letting her run the show? Somebody start playing taps and call up the pallbearers.

 

[Bokanovsky]

^^^ Exactly this!!!^^^ @ Calihopeful I am a woman and your statement seriously shocked me!! IMHO, your mindset needs a serious tune-up!

With a name like 'calihopeful', one has to assume he's a product of left wing, feminist indoctrination.

 

[speed dawg]

He made this thread Friday, yet he hasn't responded to the replies and it is now Wednesday. I would imagine this guy is trolling or incredibly ignorant in the ways of the world. Neither would surprise me.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

He made this thread Friday, yet he hasn't responded to the replies and it is now Wednesday. I would imagine this guy is trolling or incredibly ignorant in the ways of the world. Neither would surprise me.

Maybe hes not addicted to this form like many of us are.

 

[highSpeed]

To be rather forward, you are asking the wrong questions. Too many assumptions.

1. Who told you it’s the man’s responsibility to make a woman happy and want to stay? The act of trying to make her happy or happier to be with you is a failed proposition.

Who here thinks that a man has to do something to express his devotion or love or that he should do more? This type of thinking is a coffin nail.
The exact opposite is the truth. Do less to “make her happy”. That doesn’t mean do sh!tty things to make her unhappy.

A woman is happiest when she has to work to keep her nest together and functioning. If a woman can’t drop into that frame...she’s worthless. If she hasn’t developed any skills other than shopping she is the worst kind of woman imaginable. Absolute garbage.

So OP to answer your question. She works to hold it together. It’s her nest. Never build that nest for her. You take away all of her challenges related to living with a man. Her whining is just background noise.
A marriage is fundamentally sex and children. When a woman says it’s time for you to work on your relationship? You’re dead fukking meat.

Not showing intimacy, care, and understanding of her world is also just as wrong. You are the one she is following. Stop doing that and letting her run the show? Somebody start playing taps and call up the pallbearers.

Yes, it is fundamentally about sex and children. How many guys, you know the vast numbers of guys who report being in a sexless marriage would actually have chosen that when they got together. How many men would get into a marriage with children if they were approached by their wives and said "Hey, I'm going to lure you in with copious amounts of sex but after we get married and kids? Try a handful of times a year". I know, one of the other females on here will say that sometimes it is the woman who is in the sexless marriage but honestly, what do you think the breakdown of that is? I'd say around 90/10, with the 90 being the men who are stuck in sexless marriages.

I can put up with a lot of crap when the sex is good but take away the sex? It's like a roommate situation. Who the hell wants to split finances and kids with your roommate?

 

[highSpeed]

Maybe so, but this thread has been edifying for me, someone who walked away from one marriage but isn't sure he'd ever tie the knot again. My marriage was short, 3 years or so, but I had no problems with sex, at least. What I'm seeing on this thread are two schools of thought, 1) that she can (and likely will) withhold or diminish sex and there's nothing you can do about it, and 2) that it's up to you to maintain frame no matter what, the game never ends, no matter how familiar you two are, you must lead, and run the game, to keep her on her toes.

Both seem true. I'm guessing going with #2 until and unless she doesn't change, in which case it's hopeless.

This is the problem with state enforced marriage contracts though. She's incentivized to behave badly. With marriage and kids, if it doesn't work out for whatever reason, the man is usually the one who is punished. There are rare cases, for instance, where the female is the breadwinner but honestly, that just doesn't happen that much right now and historically. Most guys in those situations anyway, are too proud to try and soak their soon to be ex-wives anyway, or at least they'd be shamed for doing it. How many guys you know would emulate Kevin Federline? He's a joke and I honestly don't know how I'd be able to look any other guy in the face if I was him.

 

[AlphaSoldier]

The "Did your wife change after kids" post got me thinking a bit.

For those who are divorced, at what point did you realize the marriage was over?

I asked her to have sex because I was feeling depressed, she begrudgingly accepted, a few days later she accused me of "using" her.

It was the last straw. She had used ME for 10 years to have a lifestyle she could not afford, needless to say, it was me who did most of the cooking, household chores, take care of our daughter, etc.

What do you believe you did wrong?

1. Marrying her
2. Having a kid with her
3. Buying a house with her (actually, I paid 99% of the cost, she just signed the papers)

 

[Ranger]

I asked her to have sex because I was feeling depressed, she begrudgingly accepted, a few days later she accused me of "using" her.

It was the last straw. She had used ME for 10 years to have a lifestyle she could not afford, needless to say, it was me who did most of the cooking, household chores, take care of our daughter, etc.



1. Marrying her
2. Having a kid with her
3. Buying a house with her (actually, I paid 99% of the cost, she just signed the papers)

Oh does this sound familiar. Standard marriage. I get it brother.

 

[Calihopeful]

I don't know where you got the idea from that men are overwhelmingly responsible for divorces; perhaps a woman? Did you see who was copping the majority of the abuse in that thread?

Remarks like this suggest that you have absolutely no idea. Divorce (like marriage in general) is a VERY nasty institution in feminist (western) societies. Women are pretty much paid (certainly incentivised) to divorce their husbands. So, guess who overwhelmingly initiates divorces? Anglo-American societies are run by lawyers and divorces help feed the lawyers (which is what the law is for).

You probably need to acquaint yourself with just how corrupt these institutions are.

I can't post links, but I would suggest going to Youtube and looking up:

. Red Man Group - ep. # 30 Divorce

. Red Man Group - ep. # 41 DDJ on The Feminist Lie

. Richard Cooper (one of the Red Man Group) also has an interview with DDJ on his channel (Entrepreneurs in Cars). Rich is divorced with a daughter.

. I think Stefan Molyeux has an interview with the guy who made Divorce Corp.

. Divorce Corp. (documentary about this industry in the US especially - probably won't be on youtube but elsewhere)

They also have a new group called The Patriachs which attempts to deal with the niche of marriage which might interest you.
There is also much excellent advice on this forum but it sounds like you need to get your bearings first.

I'll take a look. I think their was a major misunderstanding with my comment about it being the man's fault.

Why would you assume it’s the man’s fault >90% of the time?

-Augustus-

When I say "it's the man's fault > 90% of the time" I mean it like, if your woman is pissing you off, has a ****ty attitude, cheating on you etc... I would assume, based on what I have read and my own experience, that the man isn't handling the woman like he should be. Their behavior is out of control because the man isn't keeping it in line. Like a child, if you let them have a tantrum and give them what they want, they will continue to misbehave. Is a relationship much different?

Maybe so, but this thread has been edifying for me, someone who walked away from one marriage but isn't sure he'd ever tie the knot again. My marriage was short, 3 years or so, but I had no problems with sex, at least. What I'm seeing on this thread are two schools of thought, 1) that she can (and likely will) withhold or diminish sex and there's nothing you can do about it, and 2) that it's up to you to maintain frame no matter what, the game never ends, no matter how familiar you two are, you must lead, and run the game, to keep her on her toes.

This sums up what I meant above.

To be rather forward, you are asking the wrong questions. Too many assumptions.

1. Who told you it’s the man’s responsibility to make a woman happy and want to stay? The act of trying to make her happy or happier to be with you is a failed proposition.

Who here thinks that a man has to do something to express his devotion or love or that he should do more? This type of thinking is a coffin nail.
The exact opposite is the truth. Do less to “make her happy”. That doesn’t mean do sh!tty things to make her unhappy.

A woman is happiest when she has to work to keep her nest together and functioning. If a woman can’t drop into that frame...she’s worthless. If she hasn’t developed any skills other than shopping she is the worst kind of woman imaginable. Absolute garbage.

So OP to answer your question. She works to hold it together. It’s her nest. Never build that nest for her. You take away all of her challenges related to living with a man. Her whining is just background noise.
A marriage is fundamentally sex and children. When a woman says it’s time for you to work on your relationship? You’re dead fukking meat.

Not showing intimacy, care, and understanding of her world is also just as wrong. You are the one she is following. Stop doing that and letting her run the show? Somebody start playing taps and call up the pallbearers.

I don't believe women know how to make themselves happy (for the most part), and thus rely on their man for it. I agree with a lot of what you said here. Now, I'm not saying the man should be bending over backward to MAKE them happy, being a superior man and acting accordingly should make the woman happy. A man builds a successful career, keeps himself educated and in shape, has a social life, etc... are attractive qualities for a woman. Not saying he should do these things FOR woman, rather himself. If the man lets himself get lazy and his wife wants a divorce, or the marriage crumbles, I think that's the man's problem.

Of course the woman could get lazy, not put any effort into the marriage, etc... But I doubt after the divorce your ex wife lives a life of celibacy (she still wants to be with a man, why not you?). That was sort of my point in making the thread. Why did she get this way? Were you really the best man you could be, and she wasn't satisfied with that?

With a name like 'calihopeful', one has to assume he's a product of left wing, feminist indoctrination.

It's a username I used when I was trying to transfer to a top California university a few years ago (I got in), and just kept the name. It means nothing, like your comment.

He made this thread Friday, yet he hasn't responded to the replies and it is now Wednesday. I would imagine this guy is trolling or incredibly ignorant in the ways of the world. Neither would surprise me.

Maybe hes not addicted to this form like many of us are.

Correct, classes started up recently, I'm in the process of divorce and buying a house. Got busy.

 

[Spaz]

I'll take a look. I think their was a major misunderstanding with my comment about it being the man's fault.



When I say "it's the man's fault > 90% of the time" I mean it like, if your woman is pissing you off, has a ****ty attitude, cheating on you etc... I would assume, based on what I have read and my own experience, that the man isn't handling the woman like he should be. Their behavior is out of control because the man isn't keeping it in line. Like a child, if you let them have a tantrum and give them what they want, they will continue to misbehave. Is a relationship much different?



This sums up what I meant above.



I don't believe women know how to make themselves happy (for the most part), and thus rely on their man for it. I agree with a lot of what you said here. Now, I'm not saying the man should be bending over backward to MAKE them happy, being a superior man and acting accordingly should make the woman happy. A man builds a successful career, keeps himself educated and in shape, has a social life, etc... are attractive qualities for a woman. Not saying he should do these things FOR woman, rather himself. If the man lets himself get lazy and his wife wants a divorce, or the marriage crumbles, I think that's the man's problem.

Of course the woman could get lazy, not put any effort into the marriage, etc... But I doubt after the divorce your ex wife lives a life of celibacy (she still wants to be with a man, why not you?). That was sort of my point in making the thread. Why did she get this way? Were you really the best man you could be, and she wasn't satisfied with that?



It's a username I used when I was trying to transfer to a top California university a few years ago (I got in), and just kept the name. It means nothing, like your comment.





Correct, classes started up recently, I'm in the process of divorce and buying a house. Got busy.

Seems you got the proper mindset.

And it's true that when a man fails to lead, he is ultimately responsible.

Once a man accepts that then and only then can he see a different version of himself.

This is what separates the winners from the losers.

 

[Boris Rum]

I'll take a look. I think their was a major misunderstanding with my comment about it being the man's fault.



When I say "it's the man's fault > 90% of the time" I mean it like, if your woman is pissing you off, has a ****ty attitude, cheating on you etc... I would assume, based on what I have read and my own experience, that the man isn't handling the woman like he should be. Their behavior is out of control because the man isn't keeping it in line. Like a child, if you let them have a tantrum and give them what they want, they will continue to misbehave. Is a relationship much different?



This sums up what I meant above.



I don't believe women know how to make themselves happy (for the most part), and thus rely on their man for it. I agree with a lot of what you said here. Now, I'm not saying the man should be bending over backward to MAKE them happy, being a superior man and acting accordingly should make the woman happy. A man builds a successful career, keeps himself educated and in shape, has a social life, etc... are attractive qualities for a woman. Not saying he should do these things FOR woman, rather himself. If the man lets himself get lazy and his wife wants a divorce, or the marriage crumbles, I think that's the man's problem.

Of course the woman could get lazy, not put any effort into the marriage, etc... But I doubt after the divorce your ex wife lives a life of celibacy (she still wants to be with a man, why not you?). That was sort of my point in making the thread. Why did she get this way? Were you really the best man you could be, and she wasn't satisfied with that?



It's a username I used when I was trying to transfer to a top California university a few years ago (I got in), and just kept the name. It means nothing, like your comment.





Correct, classes started up recently, I'm in the process of divorce and buying a house. Got busy.

You are right on target with that mindset. Failing to lead or failure in general with a woman is a temporal hindrance. What is important is to accept responsibility and use that failure to learn and for self improvement. It sometimes takes a number of failures before a Lion gets a successful kill for food. If he gives up because of failure, he ceases to exist. After failure to kill prey, the Lion will normally self examine and come up with a different strategy, eventually leading to a belly full of fresh juicy meat.

Same, if a man gives up because of a failed relationship or two, he ceases to exist to women, worse still to society in general. A successful leader is a product of failed attempts, who never gave up but instead used those failures for his next pursuits. Failures + unrelenting pursuits = success.